E 141 Dental Membership and Cialdini Certified Christopher Phelps DMD

141 a doctors perspective dental membership chris phelps dmd
Dr. Christopher Phelps, DMD talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor’s Perspective Podcast.

Dental membership practice details to implement, top 3 Cialdini influencer methods detailed (like me, consistency, commitment), coaching and marketing secrets by Dr. Christopher Phelps DMD. Influence is important and requires a team approach.

Dr. Chris is the only dentist with the Cialdini Method Certified Trainer (CMCT) distinction. What’s great about this method is that he was able to customize it and relate it for dentists. No one wants to recreate the wheel and if you can skip the mistakes of others, well then he did his job.

How do you persuade or influence a patient to want what you are offering (by their own intent) because we already know they need it (people usually only buy what they want).

Like Me Principle

One of the most overlooked principles is the “Like Me” principle.

 It’s not only rapport but patients like to do business with people they Like but also have similarities to

.Find one thing in common before you start talking about dentistry and what’s wrong with them.

Consistency Principle

This is the second most overlooked principle: being Consistent.

Consistency starts with commitments. Small commitments / agreements build on each other and can lead to a yes to avoid the in congruence that would have been built.

He learned after selling two of his best clinics and taking over two of his least performing, the importance of real commitments. Patients not showing up, not giving reviews, not paying their bills, staff slacking and more were all the telltale signs that whatever verbal yes they said, was not a real commitment.

Levels of Commitment

Verbal (lowest)

Write it Down

Put Money On It

Public Knowledge of your Commitment (most)

When are the best times to build rapport and build the level of commitments? Is it all on you and how does staff play a role?


Of all the types of marketing, he prefers grassroots methods. Why the bias and what does he classify as grassroots methods? Dr. Phelps also mentions making sure staff is trained to handle marketing efforts- listen to learn how. 

We do go over his ideas for facebook marketing as well. Hint: Dr. Chris details how to use social proof to differentiate yourself on ads so you stop competing on price alone.  It’s amazing how testimonials accomplish so much in getting people to call you and not your competition.

Membership Practice (Fee for Service)

The aging population is growing like wildfires in California. How do you engage with this group to have them actually make and show up to appointments. They typically went from a making money mentality to a scarcity mentality once they started living on their finite lifetime savings. How do we combat that “expense based” outlook, especially when they no longer have dental insurance to help cover the expense.  This revelation was the catalyst for him to write a book on Membership Practices.

Dr. Phelps is a fee for service practice and discusses aspects of the membership practice method and how that can be implemented into your office.

How to estimate what price to charge and benefits to offer?

Wherever the patients focus is, is how they make a purchasing decision. You have to remember if you do the steps he talks about, price doesn’t have to be the determining factor for the majority of your patients.

Dental Coaching

His seminars will help you communicate. How to present the care you were already going to recommend in a way that takes it from a need to a want so more patients will say yes as well as presenting the fee so they will actually make the appointment and pay.

You should really have a buffer day to think and manage staff issues, ordering supplies, marketing etc. Do this and all of a sudden your time away from work can be spent focused more on family and friends. Also, when at home, keep the phone in your pocket and give the person in front of you your full attention.

BOOK   Influence and Pre Suasion Cialdini books also Principles to say Yes
How to Grow Your Dental Membership Plan

At sea Disney cruise education

Podcast: his podcast Dental Slang – why we say what we say

www.GuideThemToYes.com website on anything related to the podcast

Show notes can be found at https://adoctorsperspective.net/141 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.

141 a doctors perspective dental membership cialdini chris phelps dmd
Full Transcript of the Interview <strong> (probably has some grammatical errors)</strong>. Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:06
Episode 141 different membership. LD certified. I’m your host, Dr. Justin Trosclair. And today bring your doctor CRISPR Phelps

Unknown Speaker 0:13

Justin Trosclair 0:15
2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get the behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties. Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.

I sure hope you having a wonderful week. Hello many so much treating you. I know I’ve been asking every now and then. So continue, give me some feedback, write a review, let me know if you think those are pretty cool. Those are sub 10 minute podcast summaries that I listened to. I’m saving you some time reading for you. In case that’s the first time you see it’s a sad day in the Trosclair household. The baby is turning one and it will be the first time Are you ready for this, that we will not have a pair of grandparents with us. So in their culture is not uncommon if they’re able to have the grandparents stay with you and help take care of the key especially while we’re both working. So that has been an amazing blessing to just see them interact having her have more than just me and the wife every day, been able to work having a lot to cook for you don’t work, just have somebody do the dishes, you know have around the house and just really focus on every area of life. And sadly, it’s coming to an end. But that’s all right time to be solo parents, just like most of the listeners, hey, if you want to know all the links that are important for the show, score head on with a doctor’s perspective, net slash links. Wow, that was tough. NET slash links. Everything from the two books all the mini series is that we’ve had resources support pages top of each year. So it’s a plethora of things that you can do to really get engaged and follow through. Well, I did a contest this week, it was guess what this dishes and kindle the greens was the only one who was close to getting it right. And she still missed one, the red stuff was actually tomatoes. And it was tofu and spinach. So congratulations, you just got your name shouted out on a podcast, really appreciate everybody that helped out and had fun with that. Alright, this week, we had a doozy of a show, we’re probably the only dentist who is certified in the Cialdini method, you know, persuasion influence that guy. So that book has its own certification program. And he is a part of it. And we’ll talk a little bit on his dental coaching near the end of the episode, the beginning, we’re just we’re just talking about some of the principles and how to apply them in a dental practice. Also, how that can apply against themselves, you know, and it’s their big chiropractic, you like always say, think about what said so that you can implement it into your own practice. That’s the whole point, or big point, he’s got some really cool tips about keeping your marriage healthy that you want to tune into. And lastly, which is part of the title of the show, membership practice. So like a fee for service, how he set his up what he how he came about it to begin with. And then of course, like said, how he sets it up. And the discounts that you might get the fees, why would you do it, and then some stories of some patients that were just blown away how awesome it was really got me thinking I know I’m, I’m constantly brainstorming for the future. And I know I’m in China, and I’m working in a hospital and I don’t have to deal with this stuff. But I always feel like stay on top of things, Justin, research, look around, when you see stuff on these Facebook groups about whatever they’re talking about. I got a running folder on my Microsoft one note, I don’t use Evernote, I use one note really recommend it, just because it integrates with so much Microsoft stuff, not so much, you know, Evernote send a bunch of other kind of programs, but China, they prefer not Google. So it’s kind of convenient for me, anyway, like, I have to use Bing as my search engine. You got that? Right. So anyways, I’ve had many thoughts about Should I go into insurance and I just be cash, do I do cash and say, Hey, you know, this is this is my feet, you got headaches, it’s gonna cost X amount to get rid of those headaches should take six weeks. Or and that could be you know, not a not a cheap fee for that matter. Are you know, you just do your normal cash rate, if you had insurance and they didn’t have insurance, you just do it like that and pay as you go? Or do you offer you know, bundle packs where you buy 10 get a discount, something like that. And then also those in like mobile home house call chiropractic had a two episodes recently 138 139 talking about that, and one of those was a coach, so she hasn’t really good information on that program. So thinking about that, and also work with Dr. Phelps is talking about felt can help with how to set up a membership practice, it really gets your brain thinking like, wow, when you start with a blank slate, so many options versus where I was like in Denver, six and a half years in really hard to make changes. At this point, it could have been over a decade in there. And I’m going to jump on insurance, you really want to do that. You want to just change the entire dynamic of your practice and just hope for the best that it doesn’t blow up in your face. That’s my ramblings for the day my thoughts. But let’s get into this interview. Really, you’re gonna enjoy it. It’s gonna be a doctor’s perspective, net slash one for one for the show notes and transcript. I mentioned it last week as a secret to secret projects going on. I’ve already got some early reviews on one of them. So I’m excited for that situation that play out over the next month or so see how much work you can put into it each day. So let’s go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China, and Charlotte, North Carolina. Today on the show. We start again, the dental podcast series and really excited today we have a guy Dr. Phelps helps that’s is a catchphrase. It’s the concept of practice. It’s about marketing. It’s about being able to communicate to your patients so that they do what’s best for themselves. But sometimes it might be expensive. So there’s ways to try to influence in an ethical way. And he’s the only certified trainer in Cialdini method, you know, the persuasion guide principles of influence that guy. So that’s a pretty awesome thing to be certified in. He has an amazing book, how to grow your dental membership plan, which we’ll talk about. So please welcome to the show, Dr. Christopher Phelps.

Unknown Speaker 6:11

Justin Trosclair 6:13
Absolutely. Well, there’s always there’s so many things you can talk about. And I think the one thing that always start with your dentist for a long time, you’ve morphed into kind of a coach giving seminars and everything. So how did all of that take place?

Unknown Speaker 6:26
Yeah, I guess it’s kind of where the footsteps kind of came from. I’ve always had a motivation, fire to enter, and to help others. Even you know, even when I was in school, I was always a tutor, or peer tutor, and dental school and those kind of things. So I’ve always just had this part of my personality, I guess I just like helping others, I’ll blaze a path, you know, and I don’t mind being the first to do so. But I like to turn around and say, Hey, as you used a shortcut, here’s a better way over here. You don’t have to go that other path anymore. So I just started realizing as times gone on, as we get age, you start looking back that that’s just part of who I am, and always will be

Justin Trosclair 7:08
very good. Would you say that you’re an overall coach to dentist? Or do you kind of more focus on the new patient experience getting new patients marketing and kind of getting people to do what they need to do and get out of their own way?

Unknown Speaker 7:21
Yeah, well, it’s kind of interesting that the principles of persuasion and influence and how I’ve applied them to dentistry, the marketing principles I talked about in the training on, even though I apply them to dentistry, I really cross reaching, it doesn’t matter what field of medicine, or even other businesses that you’re in businesses business, right, and communication and talk to people is the same. So it’s really I’ve been fortunate, I’ve actually been branching out of the industry and coaching in other routes, which is kind of cool.

Justin Trosclair 7:51
That is where you Where are you reaching out to?

Unknown Speaker 7:54
Well, you know, a big push lately seems to be with stem cell physicians seem to be pretty popular now visits, you know, the all cash business to show insurance. So really, when people if you’re selling a need, okay, we all know the conflict is when people have chosen spending their money on what they want, versus what they need, what are the two things to win, and when we know what they want, what they need. So, in dentistry, and in this these other industries, when you’re selling what they need, that’s our challenge, right? So what I’m feeding them so folks how to change people’s perspective, to make that the need or in this case of stem cell or medical need now into a wall. And when they have changed their perspective, and they do themselves changed, you know, we influence them. They find a way to get it done. And it’s not about the insurance about the money anymore. It’s about getting what they want.

Justin Trosclair 8:47
What would be the, in his method and the principles of influence? Is there like a top two that people most like struggle with that they need to focus in on?

Unknown Speaker 8:56
Yeah, you know, out of all of them, I’d say one of the most over looked ones is, especially in dentistry, the lightning principle, okay, people, that’s funny, right? People talk about building rapport and all those things, but sometimes that you hear a concept don’t really know what that means. And the lacking principle can kind of seem like that, because we use liking to build rapport people. But it goes back to we like to do business with people with like, which ultimately means we like to do business with those who are like us the similarity commonalities, and we haven’t connection with, but also like those like us and tell us a praise and compliments. So too many times, especially like a patient in the pair of Doctor walks in, there’s no time for that to happen. There’s no social interaction, there’s no getting to know each other. Personally, most of us, Dennis, we’re so busy, we just sit down and rip your lips open, like all right, let’s see what we got going on here. Right. And we skip the whole idea of making that connection first. And so what I try to teach people, if you just stop and just find one simple thing and competence, I got it. I mean, if you can find more things great. At least find one thing in common before you start talking about anything medical or dental related, okay, that alone automatically build a bridge make more connection. And if they can make them like you more. And if they like you more now they’re more likely to say yes. So liking is a big one. I’d say the second biggest one for me was the principle of consistency. And consistency is all about commitments. And the principles thing, if you get someone to make a real commitment to take a stand on an issue, that kind of thing. There’s a lot of external and internal pressure on them to stay consistent and follow through and do what they say they’re going to do. So you kind of noticed, you think that the opposite of the word consistent, so as a society, what we call people who are inconsistent, who don’t continually do with flaky, flaky, right? wishy washy, liar. Okay? So there’s not a lot of good words, in fact, is no positive word in the English language to describe someone who thinks consistent in their behavior actions. So that the external pressure, right, we don’t want other think of us as being inconsistent. And then the internal pressure, we don’t want to look at ourselves in that way that we don’t want to know, think of ourselves as liars. So if we can get real confidence out of people, okay, people tend to do what they said there. But here’s the challenge. I was having my practices, you know, I had four of them at one time, and I sold my two best ones, I took over my two worst, thinking that if I could do it my way, and I didn’t have my partners anymore, I grow these two to do more than I was doing with the four. Right? The problem was I took them over and they were the worst ones. They were challenging. So I saw all these behavior issues, and you know, people not coming back for their treatment when they said they would not calling national enough department, when they say we’re not referring to when the Google review or what have you, they would pay their bill, when I know they do what it costs. And they said they would pay it. So same thing with my team, my team not implementing stuff. When they told me they said, help me get stuff done, or even my other doctors that work as well. So I have seen this behavior, people not doing what they’re supposed to do. And it’s just frustrating. And then when I heard somebody speak about this consistency person, first time, that was kind of my light bulb, where I was like, Oh, that’s it, this is the root cause on why they’re not doing these things. Because ultimately, I didn’t get a real commitment to do it. And I got the real commitment, then I would have seen a change in their behavior. And so while I thought I was getting the commitment, and the fact that I was I was absolutely not. And once I started getting better commitments to people, everything changed.

Justin Trosclair 12:35
And we thought in verbal commitments, our credit card on file, we’re going to charge you if you don’t show up type of stuff.

Unknown Speaker 12:41
Yeah, so all. So it all first comes with, they need a choice, okay. It’s kind of a volunteer committee. If they feel like or pressured that you told them to do it, you just dictated it to them. And they don’t really have a choice in the matter, then they didn’t commit. Okay. Happy active. You’re talking about there’s three types of Africans. One is they gotta tell you, they’re going to do it. They got to speak it, but that’s the lowest level of power. The next level up is they got to write it down. Okay, so the more things we can get our patients and the people we’re trying to write down, the more likely they are to do it. And of course, the highest factor committed, as we all know, is if you put money into it, you put a deposit down, are you prepared? Now you got skin in the game, you’re going to show up and do what you said you’re going to do? Okay, so that’s like the penultimate right there, the highest one. And of course, the last one is public knowledge. So the more people that know, you said, you’re going to do this, if everybody knows, you said, you were going to do that crap. The more pressure Yeah, yeah. So those are the big three that I’m looking for in all of my scenarios with my interactions, my communication, patients, team, doctors, what have you.

Justin Trosclair 13:48
Wow, going real back to the being a personality thought Dr. struggle with that that I want. No, I don’t want him to see me the goofball or they want to see me the the guy who likes to go fishing is I’m a dentist, do crowns. I do fillings. I’m that’s all I do. You know, I mean, I’m not personal, its business. But in reality, you have to get a rapport and finding that one thing, at least that you have in common. Now, can you talk about that kind of stuff while you’re doing your procedure, or most patients sort of kind of out of it? Yeah, you’re

Unknown Speaker 14:15
doing it, necessarily, when you’re already in their mouth, this, this would come before the treatment is accepted. So when they’re coming and getting their teeth cleaned, and you’re meeting them for the first time, or maybe they’re in your chair for consultation to talk about the work that you need for the first time. That’s really the best times to do this. And if you’re not good at talking to people are so find these things out. One of the things I picked up on as a shortcut here is you can actually let your team be your detective sword. So share with your team, anything about your family, your hobbies, your interest. If you have kids, whatever you feel comfortable sharing and talking about, share that with your team and have them ask those probing questions to the patients before you ever come in. So you can walk in and your team member will say, Hey, Doc, I Miss Jones and Opry. They, by the way. Do you got two kids like you do and she’s got a Yorkshire Terrier like you do. Oh, awesome. Now come in and say hey, fellas, nice to meet you. So here you got to get other to tell me about yours. So, dog, I hear a Yorkshire Terrier. So what? What do you got talking about, and the connections are made, it can be that simple. So your team can do the homework for you? Ah,

Justin Trosclair 15:25
well, that is easy. That makes it much more accessible, less daunting, and some that you can just fill in, you know, you can train your staff to figure that out. Awesome. Awesome. So let’s jump into this a little bit marketing. There’s so much that you can do is there anything that you’re finding right now that’s consistently getting results for 2019?

Unknown Speaker 15:43
Yeah, you know, I, when you look at marketing, I look at it as three main areas, if you will, external marketing, internal marketing, grassroots marketing, get back in front of and I look at the marketing, all of those three, a call. And there’s two sides of the point is he added bringing in enough quantity and quality of new patients or clients who spend enough to justify the expense or the other side of the coin, we get the leads coming in. And it’s the last opportunity side and my being can’t answer the frickin telephone and the cam good appointment. Right? Even. That’s what the patients are calling. Yeah. Or you know, and it’s it’s both of those two things. Both of those coins are integral to incidental marketing. So as far as what’s working well, what’s always worked well for me has been grassroots marketing, and finding where my ideal patients live, where they work, what a Hangout, I don’t care, but finding where they’re congregating. Because they’re congregating somewhere, and then getting myself in front of them for an educational seminar type events. And my hope has always been going back to liking you know, I live in line. So I’m going to have Napa Valley, you know, nice, really nice red wine, white wine, and I’m going to provide for free. So and my hope was always if you can’t get to Napa, I’m going to go to Napa need from me for an educational seminar on the top five dental issues affecting the aging population. And I would go back to the Independent Living retirement communities and and do a one hour presentation and give them free want to seize. Because guess what the people that showed up the love the one, we’re going to be friends because I like want to actually already have something in common. Yeah, already attracted by the person. And it was out of that this is what I wrote my book on the discovered a big barrier was keeping these peach these passions, these ideal patients from going to see any dentist for any reason. And my guess is not limited dentist. They’re not saying most of their medical colleagues as well. Because as soon as they retire their mindset changes, and mindset shapes, behavior and shapes, actions. But when you work, you have a mindset of abundance. Money’s always coming in every month. So if you spend too much money this month, if you just spend less money the next month, and you kind of broke it, right, but you retire good to a scarcity mindset. That’s one of our principles, which means when things look like they’re running out are dwindling, suddenly we protect it more, and everything becomes events. And so they’ve got his retirement money every month is taken away, a new one is coming in, everything’s inexpensive. So they when they retired here in the States, most of the patients did not keep their dental insurance. So now they’re trying to buy a policy on their own, and they think it’s too expensive. They don’t get it. And without the policy, they didn’t think well, geez, I don’t have insurance anymore. So I can’t go to dentist well, and they don’t come and it hurts their pain. And my discovered that that was their barrier. That was the the hurdle even though that makes no sense to us as healthcare professionals. If you just came and did your cleanings and preventative stuff, you’d save a whole lot of money on the back end. That’s not what people think, okay, that’s not how they’re processing the information. So that’s when I came up with the idea for the membership plan, and pitched it back to these communities one time a month, and literally grew to my offices going over a million dollars a year us at each office two years in a row by doing so.

Justin Trosclair 19:08
Well. I have two questions. One will be first, when you’re looking at doing ads, whether it’s Facebook print, even in you know, in person, are you doing those massive discounts, free teeth whitening, you know, that type of place? Or how do you find a good offer that you get good patients who will show up and actually pay, especially if you don’t take an insurance to begin with?

Unknown Speaker 19:27
Yeah, great question. So there’s two parts of this, okay, there’s the message inside the and a barrier that’s there, you got to overcome when somebody’s looking at your marketing piece for the first time. And they don’t know you from Adam. And then there they offer call to action. So let’s tackle the first piece here, you want to lean on in your message in the body of whatever you’re advertising, whatever medium or vehicle you’re using Facebook or direct mail, I don’t care, you got to understand the person looking at your end is probably especially from dentist or looking at 20 other dental ads that they got that every month, and they’re looking for some way to differentiate them. And they can’t tell the difference, they all look the same. So the only thing they have left the judges by is our price, which is why that shoppers special, you know, new patient $90 special is appealing, because they have no other way to judge us. But instead the real root cause of the problem is they’re just they’re not sure is this the right thing is for me, or is this one the right industry. So our two best principles that we can lean on to help reduce people’s uncertainty on why they should pick you and make you stand out our principle of social proof consensus, social proof is the most powerful influencer and online marketing. And even in print media marketing, as well. And it’s all about the evidence what others are doing. It was what many others are doing. So let’s say we have a piece on the air. And what I’d like to do is have at least four testimonials from patients written on there. And I have to tell them how many more that I have. So it will see for start building consensus information. But at the same time, when I tell them, I have 700 more on my website, and Google and Facebook and Yelp and whatever that is for social proof as the evidence of what many others are saying it’s not just a couple people that said to me, look how many people hundreds of sites have been nice. And now I’m going to build this ad nobody said anything nice about them. And this one, here’s for people searching for more. Which 1am I going to pick? Where am I going to feel safe is going? Yeah, that’s social proof is all about you, when you’re on the start, you don’t feel safe. So I see that proof password I go. The next one is the authority principle, we looked at a credible experts that tell us what we should do? Well, testimonial present you as an authority, it speaks about your trustworthiness. So by getting least one smile in the end, we’ve added an authority RMB in there and present. So there’s all kinds of other authority triggers that we look to see, is this person an expert? And can I trust them? So if you have any kind of awards or certificate, the academies, your members of that you know all the credentials that like to follow your name, you know, Dr. Christopher, folks, DNDCMCTFAG, element OP.

Justin Trosclair 22:11
Right, right. All those little things actually matter. And then when somebody is looking at you, okay, when they’re looking for cues that are natural and know what you’re talking about, the more authority again, census information, we get into the piece itself, it reduces their uncertainty, and they’re more likely to pick up the phone call without doing any more research, you get all your testimonials, you got the credentials all over everything. And then now pretty much when you’re comparing everybody’s adds up pretty much rising to the top. And so I was, at that point, I’m thinking, can you command a higher price? Or is just you’re still actively around the same ballpark as everybody else? But now they just choose you because of the

Unknown Speaker 22:48
social proof. Yes, you can definitely command if you are viewed as the expert and the go to person in that community that makes you scarce. Because if you’re perceived the expert and nobody else is, then you’re the scarce resource. And if you’re scarce, you can charge what you want. So I feel to continue to review everybody else’s to continue to go down because there we embarrassments are going down every year, those who are stuck in the dental insurance game, so to speak. Because you’re like cash, aren’t you? Yeah, refuse service. I mean, we do file their insurance fee for service courtesy and wait on the insurance money As long as they’ll send us the check. But I’ve been trying to get out of that game. Because from an endurance standpoint, it’s a game dentist can’t win. And there’s too much competition in there anyway. And more and more people are fighting for the same smaller, smaller piece of pie. And Apple I like the world the membership plans and being in the world when only about 35% or less of the population has dental insurance right now. And it’s going down every year that number five going up. Okay, that means the number without insurance is going up every year. It’s a majority. Okay, so all the other the docs fight over the insurance patients which are less than 35% of the population. And let’s beat each other up over there a lobby in the land of munchers where nobody’s really competing for doing anything. Mr. Membership plan is capable. Okay. So it’s actually solving a real need for people and motivating people that are going to see any demos to come in and get their competitive work done. And going back to that commitment, mindset, that consistency principle once they commit being a membership plan member, now they’ve committed to that it means I say, because my plan members when I get more people actually say yes to the treatment, didn’t want mentioned patients or cash patients.

Justin Trosclair 24:39
So let’s go into the membership plan, because I had no idea what that means in a dentist’s office, how that works. I’m guessing there’s like a program that you would probably do a whole seminar on about this. But what can you tell the audience to get us motivated, either a call you and be like, wow, I gotta think about this. This is really awesome. I need to get this in my own clinic.

Unknown Speaker 24:58
Yeah, I think we’re there. You’re a chiropractor, whether you’re a dentist, it’s really anytime if you’re seeing patients or repeat procedures of any number, I think you need a membership, that’s going to draw more patients into you. And basically in from the dental world. That’s basically what a dental insurance plan is just a glorified membership. But the difference is the these control it, right, they control, whereas with a merger, and we control it. So even though and how it works is I decided to look at dental genesis of the book, basically, what do you really get to do you get to cleaning the year you get two exams, you get a set of taking x rays, okay, fine. And because they forced us to cap our fees, in essence, we’re giving a discount offer services, okay, whether you realize it or not. So I decided backing off from that same concept. So, and I priced out, called like, for entrepreneurs, companies in my area. And I said, Hey, I’m a 60 year old male and zip code, how much will it cost me to get done with hurts and the cost was about $600 a year per person. And I thought, well, geez, knowing what I know about that lady, everything’s an expense. No wonder they want to, they think it’s too expensive. Okay, so I do in contrast, I just needed to be less than that, to attract more people. Right? So I, I said, Look, my mentorship plan and office, I got my membership saving plan, because who doesn’t like to say, right? And to do it for 299 bucks, and cleanings, to exams to x rays offer our way to fluoride varnish treatments. So as you don’t want help with sensitivities and those kind of things, and then I give you a 10 or 15% discount off everything that I do, because insurance companies will only pay for some of the things I do, I’m going to give you a discount off everything 10% off major items or add ons, implants, whatever you consider Major 15% off minor resistors, cleanings, additional cleanings, extractions, grafting, what have you, and put it back on the king, between doing those community events once a month kind of turns into a social event for the community. And then last that good grassroots marketing, you know, those few early adapters that came in to try out the membership plan to see, you know, is it really that good, because now some people don’t buy it first, because they think it’s just the cash. So I want those early adapters came in and found out there was no cash and they spread the word, the community, for me, that is legit, they started coming in droves. Okay. And the cool thing is that even though this count stays the same, my fees each procedure go up every year. So now I’m back in control from the practice management standpoint and growing your business.

Justin Trosclair 27:35
So you’re not having to do a root canal for a root canal cost, let’s just say $150. By insurance, it’s not like you’re saying I charged 120 or, you know, you could be charging 200 or 300 for that same procedure, and you just knock it off 10%. So you can actually still charge a premium price for your services, even though they have a membership plan.

Unknown Speaker 27:55
Exactly. The more you are with me and you understand on the influence principle, persuasion, persuasion, you understand it’s what people use to make their decision, a big thing is are their focuses. And when they’re focused on it, that’s where the importance is, and whatever, they’re not focused on the state. So an example a patient bar from a practice new patient, and stand at the front desk and attempt to beat up their national membership plan. I’m interest. Okay, sure. Hit me, what do you got? He said, Lisa, YE five grounds. And if I buy your plan, it says I get 10% off crowns. But I get 10% off all five crowns? Every one of them. I was like, Yeah, of course. exclusions cap limit setup it uses today. I don’t care. And it goes, huh? Yes. All right, hang on one second. And he pulls out his little foot and an analog phone and call somebody and turn from the front up as the dental office literally across the street from my practice that he drove past the gate to me. And he talks to the front desk person there and goes, Hey, this is Bill. Yeah. 10 o’clock. Sorry, I’m supposed to be my opponent right now. I’m not going to catch up on it. Anyway. Oh, my gosh. And you sit down with me? And we did five grands. Okay. And not one time. Did you ever asked me the price of my grants. And in fact, after this count, I guarantee you he still paid more for my crowns than he would have at the off cross street,

Justin Trosclair 29:21
then why would he have done that?

Unknown Speaker 29:22
Because that’s where his focus was, his focus was on getting the discount, not about the price. Hmm, that’s really interesting. He had the social proof. Everybody in the community talked about us, we had the authority as the experts in this. So he wanted to go with us and to get the best quality care. Now, you know, and he wanted a little something off. That’s what was 10% focus was on for doing what he knew he anyway. So and it’s not the crown was the crown, he didn’t actually think to stop and think that the prices of my crown would be different than the price of the crown cross street, he’s wanted to go. And that’s what you got.

Justin Trosclair 29:53
Somebody on Facebook was just complaining, they said, Man, they were looking at the price was going to cost us cash versus insurance. Well, they chose insurance, and you know, some vitamins gonna be this much, and then was done the old, another hundred bucks. And they’re like, well, crap, I could have just paid cash and spent less money. You know, it’s not always the case where you’ll come out ahead by using cash, at least a couple of like fee for service, Dennis podcasts. And that’s what I thought interesting was, we’re not saying charge to 99 for the year as a membership plan, and you get some really sweet deals, you know, someone like myself haven’t had cavities. So that’s a great deal for me. But then for those extra procedures, you get to still charge a premium price. And you just give them a discount off of it. Because not everybody wants to be a membership. And so they just pay full price. Like said you have the authority and the credibility and all this people willing to spend more than the insurance down the street, that would actually save them money. That’s really interesting to me.

Unknown Speaker 30:42
That’s the power of again, where their focus is. That’s what’s important. And that’s what they used to make their if you focuses build your strategies around that, not about this.

Justin Trosclair 30:51
And I guess that’s part of where you’re when you go have these seminars, like you’re about to go on a Disney Cruise, but the great part of it is when you’re at sea, it’s education. Those are the types of things of mind space that you have to acquire, like the proper mindset is the poverty complex versus the prosperity where you’re worth it, you can, it’s okay to charge more money, like you’re delivering a good that they need, and you’re delivering a better product, then potentially somebody down the street?

Unknown Speaker 31:16
Yeah, well, it’s all comes about is someone someone’s sold this a great lie, and lie is that we make our decisions about who this person is. And so therefore, when you see something, you see a couple people go for it, then you put two together and think, Oh, this must be the way we have to do it and keep this kind of everything. Let’s give away for free, we have to get them in the door, you know, for the door stretch. And you see all these strategies built around this excuse when you think people are saying no to you, because you’re too expensive. But what’s cool, is when you understand what people are actually using in the moments before they made their decision, and when they’re actually in making their decision. And we build our strategy on the front end around those things. And suddenly proven ability, it’s not about price at all, you can charge what you want to run your business, pay off all your debts, and still have a good life for taking the risk that you did to be in your position. So it doesn’t have to be above price for the majority. That lie. I think it’s like the matrix. I don’t know if you guys remember that movie, but

Justin Trosclair 32:21
the red pill blue pill.

Unknown Speaker 32:23
Yeah, and you had a choice, right? You take the blue pill and you go back to bed, or you can take the red pill, and I’ll go down the rabbit hole and see how far it goes. And I’ll show you the world and pulled over your ass. And to me that was what it was like understanding these principles in what people are really using eating. In the moment, they’re making that decision, and it changes everything. You don’t have to be suddenly.

Justin Trosclair 32:46
Yeah, you know, and I would say it doesn’t matter what Donna doctor, you are like in dentistry, I would say kind of want the best I want, someone’s not going to say who’s gonna lie to me, I don’t know if you guys hear that. But we hear it on my end, I got something that I didn’t need. You hear that a lot. And then people get mad and they don’t trust the dentist. So then they can find someone that they can trust that’s going to offer what they actually need, whether that means the doctor makes less money that visit or not. Because this is the procedure that you needed for your tooth, and you can do an amazing job at it, you’re going to pay for that, especially if you’re doing second implant, I want the best. I don’t want somebody who’s just been doing like, Oh, yeah, just finished my course last week, ah, I want to get he’s been doing it for a couple of years, you know, let me This is my tea is my mouth. It’s visible, it hurts if you don’t get it done right into. And this thing, the same thing with chiropractic or physical therapy, you know, you might have special training for golfers are, you know, conditioning, you know, you want to go out and be a an athlete of the weekend warrior, you know, the person who has more experience, and that’s probably going to do a good job. And there’s a premium price if you’re going to have those extra letters behind your name so that your treatment is top notch. I think so that’s a good reminder what you just said,

Unknown Speaker 33:53
yeah, that’s it’s the six principles of influence persuasion, that’s what people are leaning on the majority of the time, doesn’t mean you don’t use logics and Thomas, if they had past experience with it, they didn’t burn on it, but they they’re gonna think that doesn’t mean they don’t use emotion. Sometimes emotion is a powerful motivator. People say yes, but that’s not what the majority are using. Okay? And but if you’re like me, and I’m scored one out of 10 on empathy and sympathy, hard to distill emotions and others, right, so I can lean on that. Me. So

Unknown Speaker 34:24
you’re a doctor. Right?

Unknown Speaker 34:27
So I needed something more scientific than lean on and, and count on for masses. So I like to build my strategies for the masses. And that takes,

Unknown Speaker 34:35
you know, that’s something we don’t think about, because sometimes we get wrapped up in price. And in reality, like you just said, that’s a minority of the people. People just want what you said. And we have to remember that on a on a daily basis, you know, alright, let’s see here. When you have a doc who’s been out for a while and they’re struggling, they’re not consistent. Would you say that your services a weekend, I guess it’s a weekend seminar type of thing, can get them Monday morning, back on track, or least some principles that they can start on Monday,

Unknown Speaker 35:04
definitely, in my courses are big focuses on communication, and have closed more cases, how to present your treatment, whatever that treatment is, and proper way to turn that need into walks. Okay. And the patients going to choose every step of the way. And then we’re also going to focus on how do you present the financials of those as well. So that all you doing get a yes to the plan. True plan. We need different strategies for Yes. T shirts and strategies to get a yes to making the payment. As if you’re not starting it today. There’s no guarantee to come back. Right. So you really need three different strategies for each of those areas for the plan and the money, the financial power and scheduling the appointment. So that two day persuasion workshop that is the big focus, and I have worksheet that tools for you to use. I’m telling you and you can I mean, you look at my website, okay, Phelps helps package laptops, calm. I got hundreds of testimonials from Justin even now starting good system, so doctors getting testimonials, my way to testify to that, right? And how these small little things that you can change can make a big impact on your numbers in your results. Okay, and therefore you’re in practice,

Justin Trosclair 36:14
because that’s a good point. Because you can, you can get creative with your finances like hey, do you need three months to pay this out? You need six months to pay this out. Okay, cool. Great. And then they just say yes, yes, yes. And then hey, go up front. They don’t even make the appointment. Nope. Just got out of there. It was getting uncomfortable.

Unknown Speaker 36:30
Exactly. And that’s exactly right. You know, there’s a popular team Austin Powers, or he’s a, he has a gun, He Will Ferrell’s character. And he’s trying to get the information on where the bad guys layer is. He says Where’s Dr. evil’s layers? Like, I’ll never tell you where Dr. He was layer to kill the Bowers. Where’s Dr. evil’s layer like Albright over there? And it’s like, well, that was easy. And he’s like, yeah, I hate when people ask me multiple things at the same moment. Yeah. And, and what’s hilarious about that is even though personality wise, we are all afraid of rejection. That’s why we don’t like to ask patients anything. And that’s why your team does ask questions, anything because they’re afraid of getting to know the science is that actually people will hate to see you. And they hate to say it multiple times in the same moment. So if you keep asking for something, you’re going to get a yes. That’s what you need. There. The problem is, because you didn’t really give them options, you didn’t really give them choices on the way they didn’t really commit to it to the not likely to do it. So we need both in the trenches.

Unknown Speaker 37:32
I mean, I like that idea of this is what you need. This is your a plus game plan. And they’re like, why don’t I don’t want that? All right. Well, we have a pay as you go plan to, you know, as far as like chiropractic, you know, you might want to sell them, here’s a month of care or 10 visits, get them committed, you know, but they don’t want to do you like, well, there’s other option is probably gonna be more expensive as well, because, you know, that’s how we do it. And they have to make that decision and give them options, little options to pay options to schedule, and it makes it a better situations where they actually commit to the care that they need. And normally, they need more than two visits,

Unknown Speaker 38:02
you know? Yeah. You got to keep in mind the number we’re talking about here. Because, you know, if you’re not in dentistry, not an ideal for you HR. You know, this is the strategies, I’m talking about work for our average treatments, like a crown, we need around 1200 dollars, you’re dealing with us, these strategies also work for comprehensive cases. So I do a lot of implants, I do hybrids, which are these teeth that screw into implants, patients can’t take their teeth out anymore. So to be said, we’re talking, you know, 25 $30,000, arch times to upper and lower. So we’re talking about 60. It’s the same strategies. So it doesn’t matter what size or amount that you’re presenting. It’s all about how you’re presenting it. What you said before you got to the presentation. Okay, geez to do first matters more emotional to talk about as well. And will you given them to contrast that? And then

Justin Trosclair 38:55
what are some fees right there, too. I mean, when you can say it works on a 1200 dollar fee, 500 feet, or 60,000 feet? That’s Wow, that’s impressive to me.

Unknown Speaker 39:06
Well, as I said, My gosh, I spent two days going over the science and giving you the validating everything I’m telling you to do here. But once you start, and you really understand that you think that red pill nice, really start understanding what they’re really used to me. Didn’t make complete sense.

Justin Trosclair 39:24
Awesome. Okay, that so we’re going to switch gears a little bit, we’re running out of time, the more personal side of the interview, a lot of us, we need to have at work home life balance, and we also have our own clinics. So it’s really hard to step away and take a legitimate vacation, what kind of secrets Do you have, so that we can have both?

Unknown Speaker 39:41
Yeah, well, I say for the dental practice, really, it all starts with changing your mindset being reactive in your business being proactive. And the only way to do that is you have to create a margin of time, so that you can actually think and be proactive. So welcome to the program called the Strategic Coach. And I tried to fix this deal to my coaching clients, something dance only came up, but entrepreneurs in general need time. Okay, so we need our time to focus on our patients. And that’s the only thing we should be focused on. But then we need a day or so a week to focus on this, the returning emails from suppliers to find the best supplier, dealing with staff issues, like dealing with all those nuances, not during the day of patient care. But on dedicated days, that’s all we’re focused on. Okay? If we have these things, again, those buffer days, then you can actually have true days, meaning your weekends, you don’t have to think about your business, instead of constantly thinking about your business. And even though people are scared to take those plan days, buffer days, if you will, because they’re afraid is going to cost them in production. If you schedule it and you do it, your brain because of the scarcity of losing that Day, will actually have more business and you’ll be more productive on the days you are working. And it will be like never get off. Okay. So I would say the first thing is scheduled more planning days and start getting proactive in your mindset about your business. Okay, creating a margin will protect your free days on the weekends, which means you’ll actually not have time to be successful and take patience and have a true work life balance in your home. Your with your family. And your focus. Is there not on the business.

Justin Trosclair 41:18
What about a significant other a lot of Doc’s they gain the world, but they lose their family. And I hate that. So you got anything that we can do to keep the love alive and feel connected to your spouse or significant other?

Unknown Speaker 41:30
Yeah, I mean, obviously a simple one is don’t let work come home with you can’t get that margin to work day work. And it won’t, right. And when you’re with for spouse or significant other, to hold down, put the phone away. So your focus is there. Another kind of thing you can do. And we talked about the science of precision, which we didn’t do a whole lot of time talking about but is you can persuade yourself to have that person in your thoughts. So you’re automatically going to be more focused and more tip to them when they’re around. It’s a simple of, you know, let’s say your spouse’s name is Amy or your girlfriend’s name’s Amy. Well, you maybe you Google, all the songs that have the word Amy, and you download it, make a playlist, Amy’s playlist, and literally on the and on the way home from work, you’re listening to all the songs that have to shave your mind that focus you on Amy, or maybe you know what your mother’s favorite songs are, you go playlist with their favorite songs and play those on your way home from work. So this is you get there, you’ve raced the the focus of day, and now you’re thinking about them, and you’re focused on them, they’re gonna see that they’re going especially the ladies, man, they’re so intuitive on that, it’s instantly that you’re more receptive to them, and automatically, it’s going to strengthen your relationship. Wow.

Justin Trosclair 42:49
So the pre suasion is that a part of the book that a lot of people kind of skip over when they talk about him.

Unknown Speaker 42:55
Yeah, that’s a book he wrote, you know, the influence principles. He wrote that about 36 years ago. But powerful still, today, pre suasion was a book he wrote about three years ago, and persuasion that science is all about priming the pump for Yes. So you can actually do some things to create a mindset and somebody is going to set the stage within your request before they ever get in front of you. So what’s this all about when they’re in front of you, in an opportunity? persuasion is all about getting them in a mindset where they already want to say yes, before they ever get in front of you. So just amplify,

Justin Trosclair 43:31
is that kind of like customer service stuff?

Unknown Speaker 43:33
No, it’s all kinds of things. Because, you know, asking those questions like in my new patient form, that I use in my dental office as a resource to do. So I’m asking questions and trying to create a certain mindset, because I don’t want my patient be a proactive mindset patient as well, because their actions have been fixed, or that’s not Samana mercy clinic, I can’t run my practice that way. Today, I need two people certainly being proactive role health and want to get the crown of the filling done today. So it doesn’t end up as a root canal or an extraction or whatever, the root. But I can start shaping that content before they ever get in front of me by asking the questions. So that’s what I mean by pre suasion, things you do before they ever get in front of you, that already says a moment said they want to say yes, look, you’re gonna be are going to be? That’s awesome.

Justin Trosclair 44:22
That’s great, because these are books that he wrote. So definitely, obviously, these are books that people can read to create their own thing, do it themselves, or, man, this sounds great, but I’m missing the key element, boom, Phelps can help. I need to go check it out for two days. And really just wrap my mind around all of this. And sometimes it’s better just to pay somebody because they’ve already figured it out for you, like you said, and you can you can skip all the work and just go to what works already, you know,

Unknown Speaker 44:48
yeah, well, you know, I these workshops and built that I’m trying to teach you how to fish, okay? Because if I could teach you how to fish, then I taught you the skill you can use for life, but at the same time, know people are going to the core Robert, I’m going to eat fish. I much time figuring out how to apply these things to our profession, and others, that there’s so much actionable content, you won’t go wrong. And of course, I could say that all day long. Don’t listen to me read what people said about okay. It tells you everything you need.

Justin Trosclair 45:19
Okay, before we get your, your website and all of that, do you have any other books, blogs, podcasts that you definitely would recommend for people to check out?

Unknown Speaker 45:28
ghastly books? There’s all kinds, you know, they start with me to champion his books he did. He co wrote with others in the two he wrote myself a small, big and yes, scientific principles to say yes, he wrote somebody one of our trainers in the UK, Martin, and of course pre suasion and influencer marketing books, tweet as well. podcast, go check out my podcast, I’ve got one logic or the dental slang podcast. And it’s all about why do we say what we say? I know why we do what we do and why we do things, but the communication and the things that we come up with and the words and phrases that we use to describe things to people. How does that come about? So my podcast is all about that. Why do we say what we say, in various forms of dentistry? So the title of the dental selling podcast with that. And of course, I’ve, if you check out Dr. Phelps helps calm the always I’m always posting articles that I’m writing on influence, and Colby and other sciences, things in practice management. But I published interest in wearables, I always try to post my articles and links to them there. So you can have one place to go to find that content. If you’re not connected with me on social media or, you know, Facebook or anything like that. So feel free to reach out to Mr. Christopher Phelps, on Facebook, the one with me Hold on glass of wine in my hand. That’s the one I check the most.

Unknown Speaker 46:54
appreciate you having me on time.

Justin Trosclair 46:56
Absolutely. And again, is the podcast out yet or is going to be out

Unknown Speaker 47:00
launches in a few weeks.

Justin Trosclair 47:02
Okay, so right when this thing starts coming out, you’ll have your own podcast. That’s fantastic. Dr. Phelps, I really appreciate you being on the show. And given us this information. I do hope you get some clicks. And as far as I’m concerned, this is definitely motivational. And it just puts me in the right mindset that you can be a cash practice, you can have a membership plan, you can charge better fees, you can do what these books actually discuss, and you don’t have to read them, you can actually implement them. So I really appreciate your time today. Another great interview has ended. While you’re on your phone, click that review. But write up a nice review for me five stars if you could, as everyone says, an industry it’ll help other people to find this when we have enough rankings. Not to mention, I’ll mention you and your review on an upcoming episode. If you follow me at all on Instagram, you know, you only get one link. So I use a link tree. And so it’s a doctor’s perspective, net slash links with an S and that’s going to give you everything you need to know the top episodes are 2017 and 2018, the podiatry series dentist acupuncture series holiday 2017 financial series, how to write a review how to support the show like buying a cup of coffee, getting swag, like t shirts, the today’s choices, tomorrow’s health book, that’s the blueprints for better health, exercise, picking food correctly and financial. And then of course, bundle packs, which can get you the needle acupuncture book 40 common conditions, including the electric acupuncture pin, a great deal. The resources page has some of the products that I like it’s a affiliate style. So if you buy something from them, I get a piece of that, just like on the show notes pages. If you buy a book from clicking that link, I get a small piece of that as well. So I really appreciate that. Things like screen cast automatic peer VPN, missing letter J lab speakers, pro loan edge or hot grips. Once again, if you do need any coaching on how to improve your bloodwork, drop weight and the provolone diet fast mimicking diet five day plan, let me know as well as if you just need some coaching, whether it’s health, whether it’s marketing, whether you need some practice growth, etc. Reach out Facebook, Justin Trosclair MCC, of course, at a doctor’s perspective. NET on the top right, you got all the social media icons that you can imagine, click your favorite and reach out. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please tell a friend pass it along. You can go to.net slash Listen, it’s just that easy. It’ll open up right in your app. And don’t forget, I appreciate you. Listen, critically think and integrate. See on the Minnesota on Thursdays and Saturdays. Hope you’re enjoying those. I’m definitely having fun summarizing these podcasts and less than 10 minutes for you. You get the nuggets without having to waste your time. Have a great week. We just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen. Integrate what some of these guests have said, by all means please share across your social media. write a review and go to the show notes page. You can find all the references for today’s guest. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin Trosclair giving you a doctor’s perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

About the Author
Dr. Justin Trosclair, D.C., an expert in Chiropractic Care, has been focusing on back and neck pain relief for over 12 years and has delivered treatment to more than 6000 patients. With advanced training in treating disc derangement conditions, you can count on him to keep up to date with the latest research in physical medicine for spinal pain. He has 5 years of hospital experience in China, is currently working in Germany, and had a private practice in Colorado for 6 years. Dr. Trosclair hosts a doctor to doctor interview podcast called ‘A Doctor’s Perspective‘ with over 220 episodes. During his free time he wrote 3 books. Today’s Choices Tomorrow’s Health (rebooting health in 4 categories), a Do-It- Yourself acupressure book for 40 common conditions called Needle-less Acupuncture, and a step by step guide to look like a local for Chinese dinner culture called Chinese Business Dinner Culture. If you have kids, you may be interested in his 6 series tri-lingual animal coloring book series (english, spanish and chinese).