Dr. Chad covers All you need for a Membership Practice, why not do insurance, legality, referral tips, his specialty Spinal Tuning, loads of advice for new grads and even how to discuss politics and the future of chiropractic without losing friends.
Chiropractic can be more about ‘turning on’ a person’s Potential, not just aches and pains.
We chat about Purchasing a Clinic and some of the pitfalls, perks and things to look out for.
How did he handle the clinic when the Big Corporation decided to abandon a small town and take the jobs with it. Did he ride it out or move?
What are the benefits of having a membership practice? What is a membership practice anyway?
When opening a clinic what are the 3 main ways to be successful?
Can you take auto accidents or Medicare if you have a flat fee membership style payment system?
Pitfalls of insurance as well as fees/ cost per person and family for membership practice.
Tim Langley Marietta GA helped him set up and do a legal membership style clinic and there are over 500 of these type clinics in Canada and United States.
Is the main purpose of a Chiropractor to Remove Interference?
What advertising works for him, and why did it do the reverse for him? Can membership practice work for those who do rehab or does it need to focus on adjustment only and refer out for rehab.
Do people abuse the monthly plan? Do you have to adjust them every time they come in or does just checking count? We cover the controversy coming from other docs as well. Who does he use for credit card processing because you can’t keep cards at the office.
Patient visit time consolidation is his key to working 22-27 hours a week Monday thru Thursday.
Chad discusses his passion and side project for horses and his new referral machine, farm fresh chicken eggs.
What is The best thing that NO Doctor Has Ever Done For Me Before?
If you subscribe to soft touch, tonal, network type adjusting… listen to find out when Dr Chad finds it most effective to really make big changes in a person, spoiler he was a huge skeptic before this.
Learn Spinal Tuning, his special crafted Innate Analysis and Mechanisms of how Innate Processes work. Search spinal tuning on youtube.
Where is chiropractic going in 5 years? Can the board dictate everyone do rehab or just adjust spines?
Jay Cormack: Life Adjusted Documentary via adjusting horses
If you are spending 60-70 hours at practice, there is something wrong with you.
Dr. Rohlfsen asks about the Chinese view on symptom based or preventative care… what role is tea in their health?
Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead : Alan Rand
Uses Facebook to give his opinion and to let people know they are not alone. He doesn’t give people the power to offend him. Advice on how to discuss politics.
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/39 here you can also find the transcript of the interview, links to things mentioned and the Travel Tip.
Episode 39 membership practice nuts and bolts spinal to me. I'm your host, Dr. Justin Foursquare And today, we are Dr. Chad Roxanne's perspective.
For doctors who want a thriving practice and abundant home life, listen as your host, Dr. Justin shows Claire goes behind the curtain. And you know, doctors and guess about real world
practical tips and entertainment on this episode of
a doctor's perspective.
Thanks for tuning in everybody. A little bit of housekeeping. If you're tuning in for the first time, or you've listened to several different episodes, go ahead and subscribe, we can tell because when a new episode comes in, we get a spike in downloads, also, just trying to find out what can be improved upon. If you kind of like about the show why? If you love it, maybe tell me that to you look forward to the marketing tips to the relationship advice, the travel tip you like hearing about their specialties, let me know always want to try to improve the show. And the best way to do that is to get you feedback from listeners like you leave a review on iTunes, Stitcher, Android device. Wherever you listen, five stars, please. You also probably noticed on the individual show notes, there's a new little graphic, I'm updating the show's logo. And that is the preview. So Episode 40 will actually instead of having the black background with the koi fish and the fancy writing, boom, it'll be switched up to the lab coat with a green and white. So tell me what you think. Keep it change it back. Give me your opinion. It's not as picture friendly. I can't impose it on top of pictures as easy as before, but that's okay.
Okay, so today you're going to love it. Dr. Chad has a membership based practice. And he's going to give you all the details you need to know about it, how to make it successful tips for students. And some of his favorite passions show notes can be found at a doctor's perspective, net slash three nine. Without further ado, let's go hashtag behind the curtain.
Ladies and gentlemen, live from China. Great guests a 20 year chiropractic veteran with a pretty cool story. Chad Ralston, thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you so much, Justin, I really appreciate it. Let's have some fun.
Yeah, let's have some fun. So Doc, so let's just jump right into it. Find out what made you want to become a chiropractor and 20 years later, still passionate.
never wanted to become a chiropractor when I was a kid because my dad was one. He graduated 1959 my brother graduate 1989 from Palmer College. And I graduated in 1998. From Palmer College, and
I never wanted to sit in a room and have people complain at me.
But when my brother was going through school, I got the chance to visit Palmer College and I talked to a few enlightened students and like they, they described to me that chiropractic doesn't have to be about pain management and listen to people's complaints all day. And it happens to be more about people's potential. And that was the flip switch that that got me interested in the whole thing. So it's more about turning on people's potential than it is about worrying about their aches and pains. Now at some pains are part of it. And yes, there are days that I get in here and we can I have a feeder room system. They like to talk about their aches and pains and that's okay. But as long as we get to talk about their potential to that's a good thing. You got to meet them where they are.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. When you were first started out, have you ever bought a clinic sold the clinic moved around
at all? Actually, when I when I got out of practice, I practice with my brother for, I'd say about six months. And and, you know, he's the guy used to sit on my head when I was nine years old and stuff like that. So it just didn't work out. Yeah. And not not not bad against that's just you know, I just didn't like working with somebody. And so I had the opportunity to purchase a practice and I purchased a practice, it was quite a different style of practice than I should have realized. It was a contact Rhian CRA a contact analysis practice.
And I was I'm Don said Dr. So it was it was a little bit different of a shift. And but we got we made a big practice over there we we were seeing about 70 patients a day that might be monitored too big. I don't know what it is, but
and then the local industry that had been there for 100 years decided to implode and we ended up moving back into the Moines area and started out again. And I was taking insurance and all that type of stuff and realized I can't do this. So I went to strictly cash.
And then eventually I got to what's called a membership practice.
Okay, now definitely, behind the scenes, the membership practice is actually what's to come and the interview. That's why I invited him on. But now that you said all this other stuff, if you don't mind, let's spend a few minutes and go through the weeds of so contact reflex analysis for those who aren't Chiropractors is a very light touch type of
well, it's muscle general input. Yeah, it's muscle testing with the nutrition and all that type of stuff and and
it's finding good, but I like hands on adjusting and, and God that is definitely you're going to either your adjusted Yes, yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Let's see what moves you'll feel it.
that came out of my head. Oh.
Fingers are moving Tozer movies.
So I was talking to a guy the other day, and he was asking me, Hey, what's your opinion about buying this clinic? I was like, I will give me give me some details as he have like $20 adjustment. So all kinds of free deals we want to do and I was like, No. Okay. Then he's like, it's like $450,000. I was like, Whoa, yeah. You're coming out of school. I was like, one, you're not going to get alone. And to you don't know what you're doing? Right. Like, I would probably recommend not buying that clinic. Yeah, but what do you have any advice for people? Like, since you bought a clinic? What's the lookout for what's considered like,
it depends on what your role is, it really depends on what your goal is. Because Yeah, if you want to go on insurance based, you better have a firm insurance base that you can go into and all that type of stuff. And, and I'm of the belief now that if you're going to go insurance base, you're going to have a completely well, total majority of a symptom based practice. Because treating people for wellness and charging and assurance company, I think it's fraud. In my mind, it's totally ridiculous. So um, yeah, I would I would now having the the, the benefit of of wisdom and experience behind me. I really wish I would have started out a lot differently than I did.
Now, when you said the biggest industry jumped out of your town, yeah. Did you almost go bankrupt before you decided I need to jump ship to or I'll see the writing on the wall.
Well, we, it was Maytag industries. And Maytag.
I had both the corporate and the the union folks, as patients in my office. And when they would get in together, it would in my reception room, it would get quite tense in the office, oh, boy, yes. And you would be and they'd spout off their their, their displeasure with each other in my office. So I could see the writing on the wall all and then then the strike came, and then the buyout came and then you could see that the new industry with or the Whirlpool who bought out Maytag didn't want to deal with any of the Union, their data said we're yanking it out. So then you had whole families leave out of town. So instead of closing that practice, I just picked it up and moved it to the Moines which is about 30 miles away. And
that's when the got gas prices spoke spiked up. Not to say that I lost all my my existing practice members, but because 20 years later, I'm still seeing the same people from the 30 miles away, you know, right? This this always been there for him. But it was, you know, it was really a strange, strange process. And I made some bad business decisions. And I thought I could go as big as I was, I shouldn't have I should have went to small market space. Yeah, yeah, space would be would be nice with. And I've learned the big trick of starting out in practice is small overhead, as small as you can possibly get it. And,
yeah, in a consistent income. So that's what you got to look for. And that's why I chose what I'm doing today. So.
Okay, well, appreciate you answering those questions. Because that I think that's something that we all struggle with, you know, especially when I go back to America, should I buy again, start over start small work in somebody else's office, like all those questions that I have a good idea, but then someone who's already done it before, they should have even more wisdom well, and they've seen other people make mistakes and thought about avoiding those, if we
go ahead with this conversation, I'll you know, if we've got a bunch of new docs, listening and all that type of stuff, I'll make some common sense to you kind of smack you right in the face. Because there are some real truce out there that you have to be, you know, is still playing 1200 dollars a month for student loans type of thing. It's still going on, you know, it's it's, it's amazing. So student loans or a factor. Your buyout is a factor and all that type of stuff. So,
yeah, okay. Well, we covered some of these questions. So let's just jump into it.
Give us the process. You kind of gave it to us already. But I'm sure you didn't just jump into let's do a membership practice. You probably were one foot in one foot out what price should I charge? It's not working this price, I gotta increase it or decrease it. Give us the lowdown on how it works. And if it's something that we can do and be profitable, okay, have that standard of living.
The one of the guys the brainchild behind this
whole process was Dr. Tim Langley, and Marietta, Georgia. So he's right next to life college and all that type of stuff. He's an ex banker and, and chiropractic was his second second chosen profession, I believe. But he's a wonderful chiropractor, wonderful guy. And we're having this conversation because I was trying to do a cash practice. And what I was noticing was someone's for great some months, we're not so great, and all that type of stuff. And that was the same way it was in a an insurance based practice. We all have heard the joke that you go on vacation on on in January, because nobody wants to meet their deductible. And, you know, so nobody comes into your office on January's. So.
That's the way it was. It was like it's like a roller coaster of income while you're trying to build a new cash practice. And I didn't like it. And he says, Chad, what's the main focus view as a chiropractor, and I'll ask you, Justin, what's the main focus of a chiropractor? What What do we do the adjustment? Well, we Why do we adjust
potential, get rid of pain, turn on the nervous system, make sure everything's working like it needs to and so that your body can heal from the inside out, you sound like me.
But I'm going to go simpler. I'm going to say the main focus of a chiropractor is simply to remove interference. There we go, right? And then then all else fails, or not all else fails, all else follows that. So let me ask you, if removing interference is a benefit to the body, and of the practice members that we see, why are you doing that with your practice? Why are you removing all the interference out of your practice to make it run as efficiently and profitably as possible? I mean, I think that's our goal. Exactly. So that and that's how the membership that's in the membership is a flat rate fee per month. And if you want to,
it's unlimited care. And if you want to say, Whoa, I don't know if we can do that. I mean, I've had instructors at Palmer College tell their students that what I'm doing is illegal. Absolutely. And you know what, I would halfway agree with them if I took insurance, because I don't take insurance and I'm 100% cash, screw that. I'm totally legal.
So that means no Medicare know, Medicaid.
Medicaid, no, nothing. So I just don't deal with that. So and I
know that's how you can get around it not being an insurance company, right, as they like to say,
Yep. Because if you take insurance and have a membership practice, same time, that's that's what do you call it? Double, double fi system. And that's illegal in most states. And so you can't even bill the patient can't like, nope, they knew their insurance company or anything. Okay, so and, and when you just start describing the insurance problem that they have, because they're not thinking of their deductible, they're not thinking of their copay, they're not thinking of a lot of things, when it comes to us realizing their insurance. And and so when you start describing that, okay, you gotta, you know, 1500, $2,000
not, which means you pay up front, all of it out of your pocket until you reach that $2,000 deductible. Or if you're paying a 2030 $40
copay per visit, things $69 a month for unlimited care suddenly makes a lot of sense for them.
is a joke. I mean, that's like,
exactly, exactly. So when you when you look at it also
here in Iowa, I don't know why. Because we have more chiropractors per capita per person than most other states.
And in our negotiation skills with like, Well, Mark, are pitiful. I mean, you might charge $50, but you might collect 22.
And some chiropractor probably owns the other 5% that they take off the top. Yeah, yeah, something like that. So and negotiated real well,
exactly. So. So if you, if you, if you start doing the numbers, when it comes to a membership practice, what they're spending, at my practice consistently year, after year, after year, it's pretty much on par with what you probably be getting with insurance, but with the factor of and it's consistent income. And where that comes in is, it's all about memberships, I take care of individual people to my individual prices, something is around $50 per visit. Okay?
So and and everybody has their credit card on file.
And it's it, nobody owes me anything, which is kind of nice. When you start getting any start doing the numbers. So my my, my individual rate is $69 a month, my couples rate is 90 $99
a month. And family I don't care if they have six kids is 129 a month. So when you start averaging that all in, it averages out to about 100 bucks a month per membership.
so let's that's kind of the neat part. So then that makes the numbers easy. And when you're first starting out, you might want to say, the first 25 memberships or $50 per month type of thing. Just just to cover your overhead. Because that's what you're
gonna say cuz you gotta have a lot of members to really yeah, make a living that you could be proud of? and not worry like, oh, man, I'm barely making No, I don't have enough memberships,
not as many as you think. Because you know what's what's the average practice have when it comes to
patients in their office it's at it's around that thousand 1500 mark and all that type of stuff. When it comes down to memberships you're looking for. Do the math, if you have 100 memberships, average of $100 per membership each month, it's $10,000 in your in your pocket minus your your overhead.
Yeah, so that's that covers your moat your overhead for
one. So if you have 200 memberships, that's $20,000 a month, minus your overhead but your overhead stays the same.
So that's why it's nice to have a smaller overhead because everything on top of your overhead is your gravy. If you have 300 memberships, you have a rocking practice. You know,
what about what about like, when you're trying to build that there's two questions when you're trying to build it. What's a realistic build rate? And then what's the
What do they call it? Not retention, but the ones that fall off? Yep. Every month, this random numbers we've seen here, attrition,
so Yeah, yep. Um, you know, what, it's always greater, the build is always greater than the attrition rate. Okay, okay. And sometimes it goes fast. Sometimes it doesn't go fast. From for me, and, and, and my experience, and I see it on, on, on, what you wanted to ask me about was like, advocate sizing and the return of investment. And it's the stupidest thing. But I spent a lot of money on advertising over over the course of years. And what I found is, the more I spend on advertising, the reverse effect it has on me,
it really stupidest thing I've done radio advertising, I've done TV advertising, the newspaper advertising, and the more money I spend the bigger drought I have. So if you want to talk about advertising, talk about internal advertising and referrals, that's the biggest source that you're going to have and the most connected people you're going to have. So on if you want to sponsor an event or something like that, you know, to get out in the community and have people meet you. And to that's always a good thing. But television radio advertising, no, there's no way for money for me if it doesn't work, and it was like the biggest fish last of all time, you know, yeah, I'm spending all this money. And it's a drought for, you know, how many weeks for months and stuff like that. And so maybe I just don't get the marketing thing. And and, and I've listened to all the Guru's I've joined a couple guru groups. And, and that will remain nameless. Yeah. But now, as a membership doctor, we have a Facebook group, that's called the membership, we call us ourselves a membership mafia.
And it's filled with it, we got about 500 members. So there's about 500 members throughout the United States, Canada, doing so. And so, what we what we found out is
we're all sick of the Guru's. And not to say there aren't good gurus, there. There are some good, you know, chiropractic services out there. But I tell you what,
it gets a little frustrating because it just becomes a talking heads. So this group, we kind of shunned all group gurus, right, and we've started the new people to start small, start small you can get you can get by with a lot less than you think you need, you don't need a staff member yet don't. I had seven staff members and half of them were to chase money. Yeah, that I wasn't going to get a lot of times with Medicare and all that type of stuff. But I just I just got frustrated with all that type of stuff. And and it needed to become more simple. And Dr. Tim Langley, I throw it all to him because I tell you what he was right. If the goal of your practice is remove interference, well, then that should be your practice to you should be removing all the interference within your practice.
Now, couple couple handful of questions on this one, when you're Are you adjustment only as the way to do Yep, laser or traction or muscle stem? If you feel like you like that, is there a better price in your group that do it,
um, if they want that stuff, they can go someplace else, you know, and I'll concentrate just on the adjustment. And I'm not going to try to sell people on a nutrition or, or anything, it's just not my expertise. They want. They want nutritional advice, I'll give them maybe a little that I have and then send them to the the nutrition store with a lady that I trust us and nutritionist
that can give them a lot better advice. And then I can rather than having three hours of class and calling my side Trisha name expert expert. So, you know, it's
Yeah. And my people in your group, say again, how do people in your group ever do rehab or most of the group is a straight chiropractic stress,
it's, you kind of get ridiculed, if you start talking about the outside stuff, you know, I'm not that anybody's against rehab. But just kind of want to do it, I don't want to be somebody substitute for their medical doctor if they have a medical doctor or medical complaint or, or any other type of discipline. My whole focus on my practice is the is the detection, the analysis and the correction of vertebral sub Lexi. And, and, and that's enough for me, you know, and I don't want to pretend to be anybody's medical
knowledge expert or anything like that go to go to the medical doctor. And I always tell him this if it if you come to me consistently, and we we work consistently together, you're going to see your medical doctor a lot less. And that's a good thing. You know, maybe you should go to them once a year to check things out. That's fine. And have them remark that he hardly ever sees you again. That's great.
But that's the normal pattern that I see. I'm also i, one of the big questions I've had with people with the membership is don't some people abuse the care? You know?
And I'll say yes, some people do are few people do. And as long as you have the recommendations that you put out for people, I have a couple that come in every day, every day, every day. And,
and I it took me a while but then I'm like, because I scope I gown and scope people. I have an objective view of what's going on. I'll scope I'm saying you know what, Matt? You don't need to be adjusted today. Thanks, Doc. Just wanted to check. Huh? Huh? Okay, there you go. So, it's not the fact that they expect to get adjusted every time there's coming in to get checked. Okay, that's fine. If it takes two minutes in my chair to do that, that's fine.
We'll there'll be people that demand to get adjusted. Well, yeah, but it's malpractice. If they don't need to be adjusted. You do it anyway. Right. So.
So there's a certain amount of like, Dr. authority that you have. Yeah. And the onboarding process, like, you're going to be seen maybe eight times this month, right? Maybe might be five times next month, and then two times a month or one time a month, if you want to come in more will check you. But that doesn't mean you're going to get adjusted doesn't mean I have to treat you 30 times this month. Exactly. You know, so it's not good for you at all.
Yeah, so you have to you have to play the big boy. And you gotta you gotta be a little bit of authoritative with a because, you know, that's, I think that's what they're looking for. A lot of
times, you have to fire people to offend, just really not going to get the hint.
Yeah. And then if I also, I have a rule that I'm open Monday through Thursday. By the way, I've never been opened more than 27 hours a week, in my whole entire life of being a chiropractor. And right now I'm open 22 hours a week, Monday through Thursday. So and and one of the reasons behind that is time consolidation. Yeah, if I have a eight hours of sitting on my butt proof, and getting up every once in a while, versus if I have three hours to concentrate, my my care on adjusting people and I'm up in and doing stuff. So my office hours are 830 to noon, 330 to 530, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and then I have a three and a half hour lunch hour, I can do anything I want. I can go to the pistol range, or you can go to you know, shoot a couple golf balls or something like that, or, or
I can take you to eat watch a movie and take a nap. Exactly.
So I'm working on manky right back here on the wall, you know, I put an Xbox and or something, but
but I still can see a higher volume of people in a consolidated time. Or I could work on marketing, my practice. And that three and
get out of your office, sir. I'm getting more memberships.
So I that's what I've done is is I consolidated my adjusting times. So that's smart right there anyway, yeah, you gotta do that.
So It's so tiring after do it here. Because we can't we don't consolidate. And it's just like, Man, you get tired, you get lazy. You're just like, Oh, I gotta treat this patient. Like, wait, wait, that's why I'm here to treat a patient. But whenever I'm booked out, like 10 in a row, right? That third visits getting really good. Yeah. Tune in,
you're in your element, you got a little sweat going on. And all that type of stuff. That's that's what I love I, let's say that's what I love most about chiropractic is, is when you kind of get your groove on. And you're, you're seeing patients in there, you got your waiting room full and all that type of stuff. That's that's a lot of fun.
All right. What about patient view? Do they look at you like they do these
$20 adjustment places
that will remain nameless? Do they look at you like this is a good value? Are you undervalued?
Yeah, that's a good question. I tell you what, I I only offer the $69 a month, once.
And if they opt out of it, they're not getting that deal back. Oh, if they want back in the membership, it's 30 bucks more a month, then they appreciate it.
Or if I have a person who consistently comes in and needs to be seen on a weekend, for some reason, which I don't have any qualms about if they're if they're pretty standardized patient, they, they I know that they're taking good care of themselves, then boom, yeah, I'll hop in a weekend and I will charge them anything extra. If they neglect themselves for you know, a couple months, three months or something like that, that men want me to come in on the weekend, I'm charging the heck out of them.
Right. And you know it?
Some people get it, or something a few people really get it. Some people get it. Other people are kind of like okay, they they're a little neutral on it, and then some and if you don't get it
and and it's like it's a biological spectrum, you know, you know what I mean? Yeah.
The bell curve?
Do you happen to find that? Once they're on it, they stay on it for a while, even if they don't use it for a couple of months come like a gym, you're like, yep, I could cancel it. But then I got to rejoin if I heard again, and going to be more expensive. Or, you know, I'll just ask it's 70 bucks. I'll just make up for next week. Some my some people
do that. Some people do that. And there's a point where I'm like, Oh, okay. I'll give him a call. Joe, what's been going on? I haven't seen you in three months. And you're still on the membership? What's going on? And oh, I'm sorry, Doc, you know, I just works been so busy. And I just totally forgot about it. And I'm like, Well, do you want to stay on the membership or not? You know, I'll keep
taking your money, but it seems like you're getting value out of it.
Yeah, exactly. Um, and people say, Oh, that's illegal. Because you can't take Well, no, they're paying for the membership. All members get adjusted free type of thing. So it's the way you look at it as well. So there's
no onboarding fee like a concierge practice? You pay me two G's, plus, if each time No, no, no, no. I just blow your mind. Have you heard of that?
There's a couple of chiropractors around my area that they they'll come to the patient and got degeneration.
He got spinal degeneration. You could pay me $4,000. And, and it will take this Carrie Carrie, this for you for certain amount of time, and then we'll go on a cash basis, you know, after that,
so it will be 72 visits later.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So no, no.
We okay. Yeah. Yeah, that answers your question.
Yeah. What about backlash from other chiropractors in your area, or I guess you've kind of mentioned that they'll, they'll waive the, I'm going to turn you in for insurance fraud, but you get respect for you get booed by your fellow.
If it is it's behind my back, which, you know, what, I've caught a couple. And I've confronted, I don't know, if you if you know me on Facebook, I've got a kind of a nice following on Facebook, I, I'm kind of a good mentor. So I know that people out there that are saying things about me behind my back, don't want me knowing that they're saying things behind my back, cuz I'll confront them. And that's happened a couple times. And it's, I view it as a lot of fun.
you know, if they're complaining about me, that's, that's fine. You know, okay, should show the value of your own practice. I'm trying to serve as many people as I possibly can. And and showing my success through the memberships that I have, not how many visits I see in a day. And that's Yeah, that's the big difference, right? That is a pretty big difference.
Yes, you're actually, you know, so many people see they all 400 a week, but then you're like, well, I'm going to your pain and how many were just, you know, there's all these little caveats that you have to do. And I don't like that either is like this is just be honest. Yep. We don't have to try to brush our ego so much. Yeah. But when you're talking about a, running a card, or whatever it is, they're like, I've heard of certain programs. Oh, um, I use Heartland
Payment Systems. And I've used them for years. And what happens is, you don't store any of the credit card information in your practice, they start good there serve the payment server. So and then you just set up the schedule for for what you want. So so right now I've got five days a month, you know, I look forward to those days every month. And it's kind of a neat thing. So
and posting it at the patient say, Hey, can you just drop it on the 10th? Or like the 18th? or whatever?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I get five choices on those dates. And yeah, okay. It's good. And so, yeah, it's kind of nice that way. That's pretty great. And like I said, at the beginning, it's a consistent income, it's not dropping off and all that type of stuff. It Yeah, consist I, I know, for a month a month, and, and I do ask that people give me a 45 day written notice, just for budgeting sake, so I can say, okay, it's Mary dropped off this month. And then I got two over here that have gained, okay, so I know where I'm at financially month, a month, rather than trying to guess
when you can easily see if you just lost 40 people this month.
Yeah, something happened. And I wasn't wearing my deodorant. So I was sleeping
with the adjustments.
referral ideas you have will leak one idea that's been really good for you that anybody can implement, ask, boom, ask you have a special script that we have to memorize.
Ask, you know,
what's the magic seven words, please be
married? You've gotten such great results here. You know, have you told anybody? It's because I have? Or I tell everybody? Okay, well, you know, here
two how many people that you need, you know, and, and I do offer a free consultation and
free adjustment for the first one. This just because people don't necessarily know if they liked my style of chiropractic. They don't, you know, if they don't want to feel like they've been adjusted the
song, so and people kind of like, Oh, really, but I one thing I always do after I give them person and adjustment, is I always call them the next day, saying, Hey, how you doing? And you wouldn't believe the amount of people that say no doctors ever done that before with me. I mean, you know, just wanted that is a chiropractic staple right there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cuz when you when you're starting changing the frame, you're gonna you're gonna work different muscles differently than you normally would after you get adjusted. And you might feel a little fatigued and tired the next day. We call it the next. Yeah. So
from the Mack truck effect.
Yeah. You know, God got back from the gym. You have been in a while you like, ah, but those hundred little muscles up and down the spine. Now are they going to feel after they're working differently and they have a work in a while. So that's, that's one thing to consider.
Yeah, for sure.
Have you ever done anything like mugs or t shirts or hats or anything like that? Does that do anything?
wasted money. That's wasted money. It really thanks for joining the membership. Here's a T shirt. Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know. It's like you said return on investment.
Shirts, I don't give t shirts away for and I've done it. Not for rewards here ticket t shirt, you know, a T shirt and all that type stuff then, you know, one of the biggest, the biggest things it's going to sound stupid.
Is I live on a horse ranch and on this horse ranch we have we we board horses and and we just recently started raising chickens. And one of the big buses in my practice right now is Dr. Janice got fresh farm fresh eggs.
Their mind their mind. And I bring it about five dozen a week. And just do a you know, I have to do a donation wise, you know, a suggested donation. But it's funny cuz the last three new patients I've had, the friend has been talking to him forever about me. But then since I got farm fresh eggs, I gotta get in on that it's
worth 69 a month.
Have a good ROI, man.
Alright, so specialty niche, we got chicken raising your fancy. Oh, my goodness, that's great.
specialty niche is going to be something a little different. Okay, what you got hurt? Have you ever heard of networks? final analysis? I mean, I heard of it. Have you ever seen it?
I can't say that I really had.
It's bizarre. And it was a big g on my forehead. When I first saw it, I stood up and after the young girl did it to me and said that she's the worst thing the chiropractic profession and ever produced. And she should probably get out of the profession. And then you ate some crow eat some crow. And there are other valid forms of, of care out there. When it comes to tonal when it comes to segmental, upper cervical and all that type of stuff. So I've learned that I got to learn that early on.
I got really interested in the network process. So because it something happened that I couldn't explain to one of my employees when I was watching her and I'm like, Okay, if I'm going to be a real skeptic, I better be an objective skeptic and check it out for myself. So I went out to a seminar. And I listened to Donnie Epstein for the first three hours and was angry because he's just he was bashing regular chiropractic hands on Chiropractic and and I'm like, if you got something good don't bash something other to make yourself look good. Just, you know as be so yeah, every horror story possible. Right, right. So I, I became a trade had an experience out there that I thought I could start bringing my practice. And so I brought that the some of the protocols back and it didn't work. I don't know if my intent or whatnot, are probably work. But I wasn't understanding what I was seeing and all that type of stuff. I don't want to Don't get me wrong, Donnie Epstein is a genius and all this type of stuff.
But something was going wrong. And I, I was still upset with his characterization of the traditional chiropractor move the bone, but one light bulb went off for me is is when you want to start introducing that, that that light touch the tonal is probably when the bone is and it's free as the nervous system is that it's free. So the bringing connect more energy, or connect more information about itself. And I ended up developing a similar techniques called spinal tuning. That gets people freaked out what I I tried to monetize it trying to figure out how to monetize and I don't think I can, so I become a student. And this is would be my specialty on the the the mechanisms of innate intelligence. And I think that we chiropractors, we take it for granted a lot. And frankly, if a lot of chiropractors I've seen this, if they see in a at work, standing right in front of their eyes, they wouldn't they be freaked out about it. And so that's what I've been, it's been one of my interest is to understand and seek out an eight processes and how they work and the mechanisms behind them. So So I would say if that's one quirk I have that's it.
And then this would be all like the weird stuff that some chiropractors don't want to talk about because it makes the profession the cookie.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it is. And and if you if you do something, if you if you search spinal tuning on YouTube, you're going to see some things are gonna drop jaw. And so I recorded some things. And it's all it's all innate born, it's, it's something that needs to be explored. And I think if our profession doesn't do it, another profession, or another line of thought is going to start looking at the innate processes and how we can start working with the innate and communicating with the innate processes to work better for the individual. So I don't think we as a profession, understand innate as well as we think we do.
Yep, very interesting. spinal tuning on YouTube. Yep.
It'll track your job.
I mean, the original chiropractic story was the guy, you know, was the hearing he, he could hear again, which is, you know, like, how do you explain that, like, Oh, you hit his head. Ok. So maybe something was off. But that's still kind of crazy. Well,
Dr. Strange as as a philosophy professor, he goes through the neural pathways by heart, every trimester when he was alive, he would go through the neural pathways on how the adjusting of the the upper thoracic would definitely affect the hearing mechanism. So it was it was kind of cool. Going through that. Did you go to Palmer at all or?
No, I went to Texas chiropractic.
Okay. All right. Dr. string is a is a staple in chiropractic. And it said he was working with BJ and all that type of stuff. So
I don't know if I've met anybody that's really guru with these guys. Like I know, you know, Arlene for people, but he probably knew some of those guys, but other than him. I don't really, you know, I don't know that many older people that that bridge that BJP and maybe his first disciple, right.
There's very few of them left. I mean, one of my favorites was Dr. barge. And if you ever get a chance to pick up one of his books, do so. Because it's it's it's it's, it's pretty amazing stuff.
If he the blue books,
no, no, that's Dr. Strauss. And he's another great one. Okay, um, he is in your face logic, when it comes to arguing the the whole principles of chiropractic, and whatnot. And I mean, very, very talented and how he, he's a wordsmith, and how he explains the chiropractic philosophy. Got him over in my book stand right over there. So
you haven't have any five year goals or 10 year goals that you have set?
My wife says, When are we planning on retiring? And I'm like, I haven't thought about that. I don't know.
Maybe I got a part time job over here. Oh,
yeah. No, I mean, other than more memberships, that's great, you know, four or 510 year goals, that's fine. I guess one of my goals would be to grow the practice big enough. So I'd have to hire our another factor. And then I can go to take vacations wherever I want. So I don't think of in terms of goals. And this is what I want to get to I just kind of kind of lived the stream, go go go down the stream and, and having fun while doing it. So
okay, that's not a problem there. What do you see the profession going in a few years?
Who's got a can of worms? That's a cannon worms. That's that's a whole whole funnel, the podcast, I think, because what I see coming out of some of the schools with the students and whatnot, they're not getting their hands on as many people as they should. I've seen some major schools downplay the the aspect of the adjustment, and go more towards the physical therapy. Down the road.
Yeah. Well, that's kind of the stance that the ACA just took was, yeah, you know, I mean, I'm all for evidence based, I actually do rehab, and I believe in all that kind of stuff. But they definitely took a stance where this is where the profession is going, as we see it, yeah, to definitely do more rehab and do things that show that evidence supports it, including the styles of adjustment you do. That's, you know, that's definitely the majority of the schools now, I think there's only like a handful that are really pushing philosophy and the straight but when you get to give a strong foundation, but
those that push the those that push the the philosophy and what and and the straightness they're not necessarily saying, well, we don't need the evidence know, they've compiled a tremendous amount of evidence. So if you look at Dr. Christopher, Kent's Have you ever heard of him Dr. Christopher care, wonderful guy. He's a genius in our profession. It's published a lot he's published a lot and and have the the objective evidence when it comes to verbal sublimation. And in this practice, what I don't want the profession to get to it is telling me you have to practice this way. And you can't just concentrate your practice on adjusting the spine.
And that's one thing that I'm I get concerned about is because I know we can do it, especially you know, someone who's graduated, like when I did versus when you did, we're actually trained in it from the get go where you pretty much would have had to learn it. Yes. seminars. And so as the insurance model, it makes sense to do rehab and all this extra stuff, because you can double and triple your bill.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. So for a while there, I was wasn't chiropractor, and he only saw 10 people a day. But he would. There are over $100 for his billing. Yeah. You know, okay, so if you if you see 100 people, or 10 people a day and you're getting $1,000 from those 10 people then okay, but that's raping the insurance company. I just, yeah, I don't know. I'd rather I'd rather just 17 1800
people a day.
And and have it may be more affordable to them out of their pocket. So I've become a curmudgeon where I don't think the chiropractic profession should be involved with insurance at all anymore. So
we'll see what happens with the what's coming down the pipe. It's been a crazy couple of weeks here.
Yeah. It has it has.
So I don't remember the guys name. But my buddy, we're talking about it today. And I was like, all this happened this past week. My goodness, I must have been off the news feed a little bit here.
Um, but you always have to have an out plan. Right.
So So if chiropractic if they're going to start pushing drugs and all that type of stuff, and and prescribing drugs and have prescription rights, and just like a medical doctor, I'll tell you what, I'll start up a new profession called spinal tuning and and and just take the chiropractic principles over, as long as the principles survive. You know, I don't care what you call it, it's gonna it's gonna survive.
Think so there's so many groups on Facebook that are just talking take all the time. Oh, yeah. And they all have like, either there's always overlap, but there's always certain people, they just follow this one group in this one group. So I, I think it's going
right. I mean, in. In England, there's several chiropractors that have become spine apologists, just because they want to adjust the spine and they don't, they can't refer to themselves as chiropractors at all and all that type of stuff. And it you know, if it goes that way, it goes that way. So, I don't know,
they have like laws and protections against that, like hurting people and stuff stuff.
Well, if you call yourself a chiropractor, then you have to practice within this strict little box. Yep. And it has to be medically necessary and medically approved and all that type of stuff. Well, some chiropractors over there have gotten away with it by call themselves biologists. And that was Reggie gold gold thing. Ah, yep. So so that girl, you
know, the Ukraine, I think the proper term for chiropractors a vertebra just
Oh, okay. There you go. So that's what it was called. I like spinal that units because that's more accurate. What we do, and we are fine tuning the spine. Exactly.
Well, besides chiropractic, what gets you going? Kids hobbies voluntary?
I'm a Freemason. Okay. And that's more of my social network. So I I became a Freemason, because that's what Dr. Palmer was a it was in the Freemasons and whatnot. And so some of the treasure, treasure hunts and things.
So do I do treasure hunts and things
all the time?
Trying to go to Oak Island and figure out what that thing is all about? Um, no, but if you look at the beginnings of our profession, Dr. Palmer, he was a Mason. There was a time at at Palmer where you could not become an instructor at Palmer unless you were a Freemason. So the Stevens was and whatnot. And you look at the philosophy and the universal philosophy, the universalism, you see, a lot of time when chiropractic was trying to separate itself as is this distinct and unique profession away from the medical profession. Back in way in the day, you'll see a lot of the philosophies borrowed from the Freemason philosophy, I think, in describing chiropractic, yeah, so that got me interested in and one thing you can't do as a Freemason, and being a chiropractor's, you can't use it as like a big group or our network referral group, you just just be a just be a brother, just so it's a fraternity. So okay, but that aspect of the fraternity of the some of the philosophy, philosophical understandings and whatnot, really get me going and looking at those different similarities. So, okay, I also own a horse ranch down south of town and I live out in the country. I have six kids.
Wow. You just animals.
Yep, I do. I don't charge for that. But people bring your dog to the office every once in a while and then I figured adjusting horses and whatnot. J quarterback quarterback just did a nice documentary called Life adjusted. And it tells the chiropractic story through adjusting courses. You can you can find it online, but it's really good documentary. I really recommend it.
What do you do with the horses? The boredom racing we I
breed them I bought them. Yep. And I've run around in a circle versus I don't write them as much as I'd like to just because I don't know it's
I've seen too many people get injured. I mean, I got I came in that's one paralyzed waist down somebody know broke their ribs and they never blame the horse. Never Blanco is not the horses fault that they threw me off. There was a spook going on.
Like a horse is dangerous.
Yeah, I've gotten thrown off a couple times and that it kind of weeks you have gone. But I mean, snow skiing, waterskiing, any other type of activity. You can you can get hurt at so there's a risk involved. So, but I've gotten bruises, fencing, but that's about it. Yeah. I like I like, I like caring for them. They're great ads. So you know, they are pretty.
Yeah, definitely. Well, sounds like you have this already. So but I'm asking anyway. You got 26 hours ish of working. You got horses? Do you find it difficult to create a home life balance? Or have you nailed it?
Ah, I think we've nailed it. Okay, yeah, we had all the kids are homeschool. Believe it or not. My wife is accepted all she's also a nurse. So from the get go, we've understood what healthcare is versus what medical care is. So she works Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I work Monday through Thursday. And we've never had to do daycare or or anything like that. We have got 18 rolled through four year olds.
Yeah. As for balance, that just kind of all seems to work. I mean, you're busy man. Yeah, I when I was growing up, I don't remember spending as much time with my dad growing up as I do with the kids. Because he was out golfing a lot or something like that. But But no, I spent a lot of time with kids and my wife and I have have are times that we kind of spend together and kind of check the kids away. Or they're old enough where they can babysit themselves a little bit. So
what's one way that you and your spouse keep the love alive? To date night? or?
Yeah, what do you guys do every once in a while? And And believe it or not working on a farm? There's always something to do. Yeah, so you just put up fence. So a new fence. So, you know, it's spending time that way doing things and whatnot. But no, it never, never neglect your your spouse, don't do it. Working 22 hours a week is good way not to do that. You're spending hours at your office and, and, and neglecting things at home, or something wrong with you. Not your practice, zoom type of thing. You know, yeah. So just consolidate your adjusting times. That's all you need to deliver them. And people go well, gosh, I you know, I spent 20 minutes with a patient. What are you playing with them? What do you do? Yeah.
You're doing rehab, your staff should be doing
exactly true. Because people go, you know, how long does it take to get adjusted? I said, an adjustment is an instant. It doesn't take on to get adjusted at all. It's finding out where to adjust use the most time and it shouldn't take more than five, six minutes to do so. So yeah. And if you do know that pattern less
that's something that's hard for the Chinese people. You know, they don't understand that. No, I'm done. Yet my seismic You're right. I sure didn't.
Surely did not. did not. There's there's all I'm going to ask you this question because I've always wanted to ask it of a person in your position. Yeah, there's the old saying, in China, people pay their doctors to keep them well. In the United States. They pay the embalmer. Is that true?
In a sense, they look at like Eastern, like herbs and acupuncture. You know, those are still doctors. Yep. And so there's a lot of people that will go to them. I have a sore tooth. What herbs Can I take with me? Can I drink to get rid of that? So think of it like that they're still going to a doctor. They just don't really always want like a western medicine.
So they're going symptom based though. Oh, yeah,
yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Because that that saying, you know, it sounds good to an American Oh, this Chinese you know, but no, they're there. They're going after their symptoms rather than trying to take care of their their wellness so they don't get this and I'll tease have magical powers though. tease drink this. drink the tea for this bring the black tea for this, this will help you poop just to help you balance your cold and hot so there's all these things that they drink. Like we would take vitamins like
right so survey they look at it like that. So they have some people were definitely drink that more often or a special type of like rose hip. You know, dandelions are in the tea for whatever is going on. And you know, they they do look at it like that. Let me take this so I don't have you know, an apple a day keeps the doctor away.
It's reactionary rather than proactive. Very so yeah,
yeah. Yeah. That's their production drink better keys. Okay.
Yeah. Hey, do you have a morning routine that or lunch routine, they just focus you for the whole day?
For the horses.
He's at home.
But you had five employees if
I do, but I still make it a point to wake up at six o'clock in the morning. And depending on how many were boarding at the time, I'll bring one two out sometimes sorry, out when a real busy and you spend an hour mark installs are filling waters and looking after those animals. That's that's the morning routine.
I hear that. Definitely. One
last question. You're ready.
favorite books. And you can do each one if you want books, podcasts, your favorite phone apps. And these could be ones that you just secretly love and ones that you just like, Guys, girls, you've got to read this. You've got to look at this.
Atlas Shrugged in the fountainhead. Okay. Yep. I would look into Atlas Shrugged in the fountainhead. And that's by iron ran. I've given those books away. And every time I get one of those books away, and they actually read it. It changes the whole mindset, that process of mindsets that take course over the next five to years. That's been Yeah. I'd say that would be my favorite book.
I'd be will find you if they wanted to find you. Oh,
spinal tuning. com. That's that's my Facebook as well. Chad Robson, RHS een. I'm always commenting. I'm, I'm a big conservative, but I only Yeah, I saw your pages. Like if you're
going to have a good fit. What concerned
about is I got liberal friends that we don't talk about politics, when we're together, we either golfing or you know, having a good time together. So Facebook is a place where I can express my opinions and tell other people that think the same that they're not alone. And it's kind of that's kind of my thing on there. So, but I never give the power of to other people to offend me. So hopefully, you know, they don't either. So,
yeah, well, that's a good point you had to because you know, some of my friends, we don't actually agree with things. So you just avoid these topics? Yeah.
Yeah. There's plenty more to talk about. Right? Or if you if you do discuss those topics, don't discuss it as a gotcha type don't have ill intent that to discuss any any topic, I don't think, discuss topics like adults. And I think that's a lost art form that people have, have lost, because they just get so tied up in their gut knots about, you know,
what's it about convincing you that I'm right, and you're wrong? Like you have to see it my way?
Yeah. See, that would be a pretty boring world, if everybody thought the way I did, you know, yeah, so I always appreciate different opinions and whatnot. And, and I, I'm a fan of informal fallacy thinking, where I can spot informal fallacies. Yeah. And in the logical aspects of those. So I'm, I love those type of discussions and debates. But I don't think it's, it's worth it, if there's going to be the will, will evolve with that. So.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, any closing remarks before we finish up
for any new doctors out there, you can get by with a lot less than you think you can. If you're thinking about membership, you can contact myself or Dr. Tim Langley, or the membership group is a secret group out there. We share a lot of information when it comes to paperwork or, or marketing ideas and all that type of stuff, we just share. But there is a different way this as long as you're willing to do it and kind of on the straight and narrow and not mix things. Like when it comes to insurance and cash practices and all that type of stuff. So you're not alone. That's what the on purpose guy say is you're not alone. If you got some things that you need, discussed and talked about, there's somebody else thinking about the same thing. So reach out, I think it would be the best piece of advice.
Thanks, Chad, thank you so much. For every you shared, I think everybody's just gonna be blown away and have to start listening to this twice to get some nuggets, because I was like, this is this is great. So I appreciate you sharing so much.
I'd love to do it anytime. So if you want to do it again. That's great.
Follow up? You bet. All right, man.
Great information. Dr. Chad. Thank you so much. I've always liked and love the idea of a membership based practice. I like these practices that charge like a monthly fee for a couple of months. And then patient gets all the care that they need, and then have to do a visit by visit. So thank you for opening my eyes to a whole nother method as well. Again, if you have a dentist officer, orthodontics office, I doctor whatever, are there ways that you can implement some of the things that he said and your own clinic, maybe make it easier, maybe get out of the insurance model. As always, just listen, learn and implement show notes, a doctor's perspective, net slash three, nine Travel Tips coming up next.
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travel tip this week, find out before you go someplace if there's local festivals, even if you're going to if you're in America, and you're going to a big city, maybe check a 30 minute 45 minute drive into the outskirts of the city to a whole nother little small town. There could be local festivals going on. How cool is that? So you can actually pick an area you want to go to find the time of the year that they have festivals and then make sure you go during that timeframe. Pretty cool. That's it. Thanks for tuning in.
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hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast cast by telling two friends sharing on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor's perspective. net to see all the references from today's guests. sincere thank you in advance. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor's perspective.
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