Discover how to combine pilates with chiropractic, why be an expat in Hong Kong, comparing Australia life and marketing, journalism degree and why use udemy for back pain programs and meetup for marketing. Dr Fleur Castlereagh DC
We cover fun topics like: are Aussie’s the type to move around the country and to other countries for school and work, how to meet new people and potential clients in Hong Kong, unique struggles she has encountered, creative ways to thrive, and can you replicate her success?
What is the catalyst for leaving a practice for 16 years to start over in a different country?
Comparing the pace of life between Hong Kong and Sydney.
She works in a multidisciplinary clinic: massage, 3 female chiropractors, pilates, kinesiologist, acupuncture and sometimes a naturopath.
Ways to incorporate Pilates with Chiropractic (especially for athletes): near the end of the interview we go into plenty of details. Assess their body so they can do exercises that they personally need.
Pilates with chiropractic vs Yoga with chiropractic
Dr. Fleur discusses some of the challenges with bilingual patients and how sometimes you still lose the meaning of what you’re saying. How to overcome that?
What is milk tea and why is her Cantonese cheat sheet so funny?
We dive into how journalism influenced not only her career but in creating back rehab programs. You can see those courses at spinehealthprogram.com and her courses on udemy. They are geared for patient at home care that is safe, effective and self-taught. Beginner Pilates to Reduce Back Pain , Pregnancy and Pilates , Ergonomics to Prevent Back Pain and Weight Loss
Why did she choose Udemy instead of self hosting on wordpress?
Obviously Hong Kong is expensive and doctor fees have to be more but did you know insurance covers chiropractic.
Should more new grads or even those looking for a change practice in a foreign country? What are some of the drawbacks and considerations before making the move? How much out of your comfort zone will you be challenged?
How does she and can you use MEETUP.com to find patients and make friends? We each have a couple fun meetup stories and answer the questions: quick return or do it because you enjoy it.
Learn some insights in to Sydney, Australia.
Gender role and dating differences in Hong Kong vs Aussie.
Apps: Jodi Spencer – Brain Chemistry via meditation
Oprah and Deepak’s Meditation App, lots of 21 day programs
Dr. Fleur Castlereagh specializes in chiropractor but has a personal trainer background, a on field sports certification and incorporates pilates in a big way. She was a track and field- Long-Jump athlete as a teenager and eventually had an injury that only resolved after visiting a sports chiropractor. She has been a chiropractor in Sydney, Australia for 16 years and over the past year decided to work in Hong Kong. Prepare for a fun conversation about the unique atmosphere of building a clinic in a foreign country with a language you don’t speak.
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/102 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.
Episode 100 and to Hong Kong expert and plot is with chiropractic. I'm your host, Dr. Justin trust where today we got to flirt customized perspective. During 2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get the behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties. Let's hear a doctor's perspective.
Justin Trosclair 0:30
Hey everybody, I hope you're black friday Cyber Monday shop local Saturday was a fantastic it's the holiday season. I hope everyone's able to take off see their family and all that jazz in the next coming week. haven't decided yet if I will release an episode the week of Christmas because it'll actually be Christmas. And then the following week, it'll be New Year's. So I haven't quite made up in my mind yet. I have them in the in the queue. And you know, I guess with podcasts, you can download them anytime maybe you'll want to hear a new episode with your family. Everybody's got a great family, they're ready to escape and go exercise or just go for a walk get away. Understand that. So to be determined, well, like I said, How is the new intro? are you liking the Segway music the intro music how's the new graphics? If you've been the website definitely have seen it. Let me know. I'm always curious, you know, Instagram, I put up a couple of different styles. Even the guests of the recently I've done three different pictures for them one with the old logo, one with their face that you normally see and then one that has more of the honeycomb and then their information around it. So just trying to change things up. keep things interesting for y'all let me know your thoughts. You know, it's kind of Brandon, I guess maybe one more interested than you are. But today's show is gonna be good. Doctor Fleur is an Australian from Sydney. She was in Hong Kong. She's been there for about a year we're going to talk about being an expat trying to start a clinic and another country that you only speak the language. But you know, Hong Kong is pretty bilingual. And big thing is politics. She has some yummy classes, or how about how to incorporate polities in the chiropractic clinic? Why would you do polities vs. Yoga, we'll touch on some of the marketing that she's having to do. And it's kind of unique, and the thing is definitely something that you can do because it's a worldwide website. So stay tuned for that. Okay, that's enough for now all the show notes, a doctor's perspective, net slash 102. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.
Live from China and Hong Kong. Today is gonna be a fun episode because we have a doctor who was practicing in Sydney, Australia for quite a while. Yes, another excellent. We're excited for that. Love it. And she has experienced and track and field which is the long jump, plot ease as a personal trainer now as a chiropractor, and move to Hong Kong. So I'm really excited. Dr. Fuller castle. Ray, thank you so much for being on the show.
You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be here.
Justin Trosclair 2:51
Well, everybody has a story. Some people have a cool story. I know, I didn't have a cool story why I became a chiropractor. But what's your like your backstory, you know, in Sydney, and then track and field, how did you come about I want to do this?
Well, I did start rejecting the field. So I was about 13. And I started competing and training a lot. And I started to get a really sore back. And my parents tried to take me to some physiotherapists and a few chiropractors and nothing was working. And then eventually they took me to a really good sports chiropractor. And my back pain went away. It took a few months. But eventually I was pain free and I could continue competing. So I always thought chiropractic was amazing. And I was I would go sort of once a month. And then I was about to finish school and I was trying to decide what to do. And my cousin is a psychologist. So she put me through a few different tests. And she said, I think you should do something to do with the health field because you like helping people. And so my original plan was to do either architecture engineering, because I was really good at maths and and then at the last minute, I thought actually, maybe I'll do chiropractic because I can help people and I really believed in the results. So yeah, I did sort of a massive backflip and change my mind, you know, just the forehead and enrolled in chiropractic. Wow.
Justin Trosclair 4:11
Yes. Quite the difference and change.
Yeah, yeah, it was and I had to move cities as well. Because at that point, you did you need to do a science degree first. And chiropractic was only run at the core unit, which is in Sydney and I was living in camera. So yeah, I had to move to Sydney and yeah, I changed my focus.
Justin Trosclair 4:30
Is it weird in in Australia to move to different cities? Or is that a pretty transient country?
It depends on where you grow up. Definitely, if you don't grow up in a major city, a lot of people move into the city. So if they're close to Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane, they'll tend to move in and study in a you know, a major city and stay there. And and really go back usually. And in my case, a lot of people from Canada did move either overseas or Yeah, to Sydney. Not huge amount, but yet quite a few actually. So. So I guess it wasn't that unusual.
Justin Trosclair 5:03
I'm going to be an idiot for a second. Is that like South? west of the country?
Yes, yeah, it's out. So it's sort of in between Sydney and Melbourne. So you go down from Sydney, and a little bit in woods. So it's about two hours from the coast drive from the coast. And yeah, it's, well, it's about three, four hour drive from Sydney.
Justin Trosclair 5:24
Ok, ok. I think I mean, I was pretty oblivious of falling, went to Australia and realized like, wow, okay, everything is far as
you know, our US centric maps don't really show how massive Australia actually is until you start looking for flights, like five hour flight.
Looks like once a week.
It's a lot of space there. Yeah, we have a lot. We're pretty lucky.
Justin Trosclair 5:49
Alright, so you were doing copywriting for a long time. I mean, 17 years, that's pretty much a career for most people, potentially, in their thinking of an exit strategy. But now you're you went to Congress, what's kind of the backstory with that?
I think, when you start, as you probably know, as a chiropractor, it's easy to get stuck in one area. So when I graduated, I was 23. I think it was and so I was quite young, because I started, I guess, was 18. And then I just went straight through. Yeah. And then I was in the same area for a long time practicing. But I knew I always always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to work overseas, and nothing had really can't come up. So I just decided I'll maybe I'll just leave that alone and just keep practicing. And then one day, a job came up that same like it would be suitable because I wanted to do a combination of the party's personal training and chiropractic if possible. And in this job came up, which they said I could, you know, do that. So that's why I took it. And yeah, it was a good opportunity.
Justin Trosclair 6:51
What do you think it's so far?
Hong Kong is pretty intense. It's only been one year, and it's taken me a year to really adjust and I'm enjoying it. Like I've definitely had a lot of different opportunities here than I would in Australia in some ways. But I've had to really manage your stress levels and the pace here because it's just so much busier than then Sydney. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 7:13
yeah. is crazy busy.
Visiting and like, I can't live I couldn't I was like, I don't know what's going on. Too busy. There's so many big buildings. Pretty Yeah,
yeah, it is. And I didn't realize actually even I hadn't even visited before I before I took the job, which was taught me that.
Justin Trosclair 7:35
I went to China in a small town. I'm I'm three hours from a major city. Wow. Yeah. So it's I'm like small town living over here. I'm envious.
My wife and I, we said, Hey, you know what, you can always go to the big city for fun. And until then you can just kind of like relax, and organic food and save money.
That's a really good idea. Yeah, I should have thought about a year ago.
Justin Trosclair 8:02
And other the place you're working at? Is it. One of those? Are you tell me what kind of chiropractic process is going on over there? And how are you integrating polities with it.
So we're called up health and which is up and no one can understand my accent. But basically, it's up health, two words.
It's a multidisciplinary clinic. So there's massage therapist, three chiropractors, three female chiropractors. There's a geologist. That's it, I think I'll acupuncture and Chinese medicine as well. So there's, it's a big clinic. And we also have a little gym. The way that I do it at the moment is I do some private party sessions, as well as chiropractic. But then I also have some small group party sessions there too. So it's quite nice. And yeah, we do work together quite well. And we often have a naturopath come in and talk to us about supplements and different things. So we're quite integrative. And I guess quite modern for Hong Kong, in some ways, because a lot of the local people still aren't really that familiar with Chiropractic and different modalities. They tend to use I think, bone setters as well as
Chinese massage and that type of thing. But yeah, so it is, it is a new concept. But it obviously experts, as well as local people come so it's a combination of the two. And yeah, it's a good thing. It's really good.
Justin Trosclair 9:24
Do you have translator or your clientele is usually bilingual,
they're mostly bilingual. So that's been good. I mean, sometimes I feel like there is some things that are lost in translation a little bit and Oh, yeah, yeah. And actually, I thought the clinic when I came would have been a little bit more experts. But actually, there's a quite a lot of local people coming here, or even people that have studied abroad is a lot of Hong Kong people study overseas, and then come back. So the English is pretty good, but they still have, I guess, the culture of a local person. So sometimes they don't quite understand, you know, the way the concepts that you're trying to put across. So that has been a little bit more difficult than I thought. But the other two chiropractors are both they can buy speak Mandarin and Cantonese. So if I find it, yeah, which is really amazing. So they, they get the people that have trouble with English basically. And, and a couple of times, you know, I've asked them to translate a few things, but mostly, they'll take those patients on because it's just much better. Yeah. How long have they been there? Well, the lady that runs the clinic, she's been here for about seven years. And she she's a chiropractor. She studied in Perth in Australia, but she's was born in China. So that's why he mentoring is so good. And she taught herself Cantonese as well. And the other chiropractors she's lived in Canada as well as Hong Kong. So she's got parents are from Hong Kong. So I have a okay and and a lot of the end she went to school here. So for quite a few. So they learned Cantonese and Mandarin here. Just got lucky. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 11:04
Are you trying to learn anything or so I actually got to get around. I
have a sheet here. I'm sorry. But no one will be able to see this but it's actually basic Cantonese. And it suits me in my day.
Justin Trosclair 11:15
Oh my goodness, basic. Yeah, I don't even know.
And it's sometimes the kids that come in or some of the adults look at it. And I think it's funny because I am trying to learn a little bit. And and often in the shops, a lot of the locals love it if you just try and speak a little bit Cantonese. So I know some tiny bits, but nowhere near enough to really have a good conversation unfortunately.
Justin Trosclair 11:36
Yeah, same I mean, where I'm at, there's three different ethnic groups that are the majority and they don't speak normal futon.
So it's kind of like he's trying to say something and they don't understand you and then you hear the way they say it. You're like there's no way that means the same thing.
I know it's the tones is so difficult.
Justin Trosclair 11:55
Yeah, I mean, I it is what it is
I drink a lot of Hong Kong melted, which is like the local drink here. So every time I go into by I say it and then they look at me and then I'll say it again. And then I I make it like a point of just not going into English. And then actually they understand me and then they laugh because yeah, they they think it's funny.
Justin Trosclair 12:18
He will he will really real random today on this podcast. The Milky there is it just powders
actually doing a better job. The theory of the real melty is that they put the tea leaves into a pant into a panty hose open to you know the stocking. Yeah. And then they join it through that and I've seen it done here and quite a lot of the places I don't go to the local ones that often but it's not it's definitely a strong brewed tea with properties. And then they add milk to it. I condensed milk. Oh, wow.
Wow. But it's not like a sweet fake one. It's kind of a little bit watery, so it doesn't taste that sweet. And I don't usually add sugar but I think the locals always add sugar. That's why all the think it's certainly not
Justin Trosclair 13:03
Yes, I like it sweet. And if I don't have sugar, they look at me like Are you crazy? But um, it's really nice. I'm addicted to it, basically.
Justin Trosclair 13:15
That's awesome. Yeah, over here. It's mostly just powder. Oh, really. They just you want a strawberry milk tea you like that sounds and then you see him scoop and stuff. And you know, having fresh in this thing was the T.
Thanks for the heads up. If I had over, I'll make sure
Justin Trosclair 13:35
they're just don't even do it. Well, you know, try one spend, you know, six RMB. And then you'll be like, it was horrible.
Justin Trosclair 13:42
Oh, wow. Anyway.
Now you have a background in journalism. Is that true?
Yes. So I guess when you said I 17 years is a long time, you know, to be doing the same thing. I think it was about that after 10 years of practice, I I had to give up my sport because I had an injury and and I decided after that, that I needed a new challenge. And because my sport was like a big deal, you know, I was doing a lot of training for athletics, and then eventually had an injury. And I was told that said I should stop. So I did. And then I thought hang on what about you know, I had some extra time. And I guess I wanted another challenge. So I just decided I would enroll in a Graduate Diploma of journalism, which was quite a big undertaking, which I didn't realize, I think until I started. But it was really enjoyable. And I learned a lot. I was thinking maybe I would transition into journalism. But after doing work experience with a few different newsrooms and working with a documentary for about six months on making a documentary on the car to travel, things like that it was interesting. But I realized that it was going to be something I'd have to really start from the bottom of work my way up and the pay was very low, a lot of people were losing their jobs, because obviously, print journalism is going you know, out of style. So the competition was so hard to get into the good jobs, I thought is it really worth the challenge of taking, you know, 510 years to build myself back up into a profession, like journalism, which is almost dying a little bit. So I decided I would just use it more as a hobby. And, and so that's, I do it now with my chiropractic knowledge and my health knowledge. And I can find that and I create videos and online programs and that type of thing.
Justin Trosclair 15:35
Or these things that are geared for patients to like purchase works like workshops,
a combination. So initially, I just started putting them on my Instagram and also created a YouTube channel, because when I was doing my journalism course, I had to create a lot of videos. So I just created a channel then and then I started adding in more health related ones. And then after that, I thought actually, it'd be good to create a proper program that patients could do as an adjunct to their chiropractic treatment, and at home, follow the videos and make it easier for them rather than having to go to a gym and then maybe getting injured if they didn't know what to do properly. So I created some online back programs that people could purchase, like really cheap prices, but something that was accessible for anyone, I could do it at home. And it was at a really basic level. So they've learned a lot without injuring themselves. Basically. You actually
Justin Trosclair 16:28
got to use your degree.
Yes. So yeah, I created for programs. One was online back care program for people with back pain, one, which were all polarities focused, I guess. Although one was just about general back care tips. So ergonomics, posture, all of that sort of stuff, then one is for pregnancy. And, and the other one is for weight loss, because I kept getting people asking me about weight loss as well. Because obviously my personal training background plus you know, being an athlete, so I just created these sort for programs, which I just have on you to me site, and people can access them quite a quite a sheet. Right?
Justin Trosclair 17:07
Yeah. You To me,
okay. Yes. So that was I didn't firstly on my own website, but then I was I realized that it was just so challenged. Not Firstly, no exposure, and the cost and the technicality of it of China, put them on there and keep them on their make sure they're running properly. You To me, I was just so easy. I could just put them all out there, within a couple of days. It was such a good platform as like, I'll just use that for now for now on. So I took them off my website and just put them straight on there. Because if you have
Justin Trosclair 17:37
to all these, like what you're talking about, I'm not gonna get a membership site and possibly, yes, online checkout. And all the sudden you get all these bills every month. And I don't know how many people would have were purchasing it even as a private clinic. But like, sometimes just like not worth the headache. Here's I look like so just put it on you to me, don't take a cut, I can offer some coupon codes. If I need to, I can increase the price changes price, and I don't have to worry about it.
Yeah. And that's what happened actually might my site broke down and I was having trouble with all the membership things. And I was like, this is just too hard. And I couldn't figure I spent weeks trying to figure it out. And after that I was I was like, actually, I'm going to do you to me, because I like the way it logged in now improving aside all the time, and it was just so easy. I was like this is definitely the best option. Sounds great.
Justin Trosclair 18:22
Yeah. Yeah. So I was curious as like, the courses on you, to me, it's good. If anybody hasn't tried to definitely go, look, there's all kinds of stuff and they love to do deals for 999 do that
something that doesn't surprise me.
Justin Trosclair 18:38
I don't know how people make money. I mean, they've got you know, they're charging normally $100 or 99, or 59. And then there's just always 999 1299,
you just like I guess you're making it up in volume, because
I think so at the end of the day, if you may app, you would probably only get one or $2. Anyway, I think most of the time, although I know some of them are a bit more expensive. But the end of the day, there's also the issue of things being pirated anyway. So even if you're just making a small amount, it's probably better than not having anyone use it and making nothing. So I think it's not a bad option.
Justin Trosclair 19:08
Yeah, that's fantastic groups. Who knows what we're going to cover today.
Hong Kong is super expensive, one of the top usually three most expensive places in the world, do you find that the rates that you'll have to charge limits? Who comes in at all? Or you'll find a good balance?
It probably does. I think that my feeling was when I first started out was that maybe prices definitely are more than what you know, you would pay in Australia for the same service. But you have to rent so so high. And obviously, I don't run the business side of things. But I can gather that rents very high. And so probably does limit people to how many visits I think they would come in for right in the initial stages acute care. I'm not sure. And I don't want to try and believe that because obviously then you'll create that you take the leading that that's the case, deed, but my gut feeling is it probably does have an effect for sure is though, the insurance, health insurance companies, you do seem to peg quite well. So if you're lucky enough to have a company work for a company that pays for your health insurance, you can get quite a lot of treatment per year, which much more than people in Australia would get quite often. And I never expected that. Yeah. So they can have up to 20 visits a year sometimes covered from the health insurance, which is amazing.
Justin Trosclair 20:30
It's kind of acupuncture to them. It's Yes, yeah, no, it isn't going to take two visits to get better.
Exactly. So the Health Cover is really good. So if people are in that category, they've got a good job, they can get quite a lot covered. But if you if you don't, and you're just an average income on an average income in Hong Kong, it would be quite hard to pay for the services. But the car, the chiropractic Association does a lot of work with the community. And I do quite a few elderly sort of events where they offer it for free. So I did one or two of those when I first got here, and and they do sporting events and things like that. So people can at least try chiropractic without having to pay initially for the community. So I think that's really a good incentive as well.
Justin Trosclair 21:11
You gotta get the word out.
Yeah. And then and there is a there is a scheme here, which I haven't used yet. But the elderly get a certain amount of money per you to use on their health, and they can use it for chiropractic as well, which I think is really great. Wow.
Justin Trosclair 21:25
Yeah. Good. I agree. Yeah. At this point, would you recommend more people graduating to potentially go to a foreign country? Maybe Hong Kong, maybe some results to practice? Or should they have more experience with your thoughts? It's
a good question. So everyone said to me, when I said I was coming to Hong Kong are, especially the chiropractors that were here already, because I knew a couple, they told me it's really hard to build up. And it can take quite a long time. And, and it has taken a while to build up, definitely. But I wouldn't give up, I wouldn't have given up this experience for the fact that it's going to take longer to build up.
You just you really do have to put yourself so far out of your comfort zone almost every day, especially in the first six months. And yes, it's really hard. And it's daunting. And I guess I didn't really ever experienced that. Because when I moved to Sydney, my family actually moved as well. So I always had family and friends quite close by. But when you move away, and you're trying to reestablish yourself in your career, it is really challenging. And a few times I thought, I'm not, this is too hard. But now that I've past that first year, I'm really grateful for I guess how much I've grown. And I feel like my confidence as a practitioner, and just in general has, it's kind of like you had a sink or swim. If If you are feeling emotionally, like not stable, I wouldn't suggest it to be honest. I have you know, I've done a lot of work over the years on meditation and self development. And
I like trying lots of different health modalities. So I had a very good, I guess, base of emotional mental health. But if you weren't quite, if you hadn't done a lot of work and yourself and you came here, it would be hard because even as I said, coming here quite feeling quite stable and strong and confident. It really does knock you down quite a lot. So you've got to be prepared for that.
Justin Trosclair 23:17
The language barrier, the culture, the Oh, you're a white girl. So that helps. But at the same time and hinders in certain areas, it's really a dichotomy of you living in two worlds, like your privilege, but at the same time you get taken advantage of in certain areas and trying to like balance all of that it's and you can't express yourself good.
No, that's exactly it. And look, luckily, the majority of people do speak English pretty well here, but you still going into the bank, one open a bank account, and it's taking you weeks because of just paperwork that you don't even realize, and even going to mention and getting all your paperwork for that isn't an intense process. It's just every step of the way. You do find those obstacles. And I think that's just part being a different country and not yet not exactly sure of the process that the admin and the culture. So yeah, you're right. And in some ways, you are privileged, that the locals probably have maybe a slightly bit of resentment. They're not it's not in a major way. But I think you do have to prove to them that you're actually a genuinely good person. And I suppose you don't have to do that in your own country, you know, once they know that they're absolutely lovely, and friendly and kind, but it takes a while to get through that barrier.
Justin Trosclair 24:25
Yeah. Are you responsible for finding your own patients?
Well, yes, in some respect, I was probably lucky in some ways that my boss or my sort of co worker, she, she got one of them, she, she got pregnant, like the sort of month after I arrived. So I ended up she's worked for another couple of months. And then she took some time off. And so in that time, I could see her patients, which was good because it, you know, keep things flowing and busier. And other than that, yes, I've had to go to lots of meetups and try and put myself out there as much as well. I think that's been also quite hard. Because, you know, I didn't actually know anyone when I moved here, except a student chiropractor who I'd supervised at uni, and a family friend, but I didn't know them that well. So I didn't really have any good friends or any close people that I sort of could get to help me. So in some ways, yeah, I was really on my own. And I and I did have to go out and sort of try and meet as many people as possible. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 25:24
yeah, that's sour. For some people like they, they can move to another. I said, they can move from Sydney to Brisbane and be like, this is horrible. I don't know anybody. And I don't know what to do to meet people much less now. I had to actually kill to eat.
Yeah, you know? Absolutely not. You have to really, you have to find that courage to go out and be okay with it. Nice meeting some people that maybe aren't as friendly as others. And then some people are really welcoming now invite you to things and then back out at the last minute. And so so you are you find yourself being let down sometimes, which you just never have had as much before. So really does take a lot of inner strength to survive, I think in a different country.
Justin Trosclair 26:05
You mentioned meetup. So are there any any tips for marketing that you've noticed his work? Because, you know, I started a clinic someplace, I didn't know when I go back to America, it's going to be the same type of situation, you're doing it right now, what are some ways that are working new to each name out there and market and things?
Well, I think the fact that I do have the plot is the personal training is a bonus. Because actually, I also have sort of sports China qualifications, which means I can do spot on field things, which I think I'm not sure about you guys been in Australia, you just have to have a sports China qualification, then you can go on the field and treat injuries as well. So I have two other jobs, although they're not many doing sort of one day a week where I work for the rugby team, and I just treat their injuries in the afternoon. So that's quite good, because obviously, there's another type of injury there, or they've got a chronic problem, I can say come into the clinic and, and we'll look at it. And so I'm meeting, you know, quite a lot of people there. And then also when I work at the country club in Hong Kong, as well. And I teach commodities once a week, and also do some personal training that and again, if they have any other injuries, which a lot of them do, I can also suggest that they come in and see me at the clinic. And so that's been quite good. And and just the other thing is is definitely meetups, although I wouldn't say I've had many clients coming in from that. But there's a meetup app which everybody's to tell me about in Sydney, and I never bothered to join it. But then I got to Hong Kong, and I was like, Oh my god, how am I going to make people? Yeah, so I am, I actually joined this app, and there's like, made awesome, everything you can imagine. And I try and go to like, one at least one a week, sometimes one a fortnight depending on how busy I am, which there's a lot of business once. And even though I don't get business directly. They'll be like, how to promote yourself more on LinkedIn, you know how to. And I think Hong Kong is very entrepreneurial. So people love those types of things. So they have a lot of them here. And they give me some ideas or some inspiration. I need to put more on my Facebook, I need to do something on LinkedIn. So that type of thing is also just use all because you're just reminding yourself what to do marketing wise and not forgetting to do those things. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 28:09
I think meetup meetup I did the improv, comedy improv like,
Justin Trosclair 28:16
what they got going on around here didn't it wasn't Denver. I think improv, why not? I'll go try it out for a few weeks. I love that. It was so fun.
And that's great. I thought about doing that myself this crazy.
Justin Trosclair 28:28
I mean, the actor type people those are kind of their if the people in the group or like real actors, my goodness. Some interesting, folks. But yeah, like, I'm kind of talking to the to the audience on this part is meetup is really cool. Like you said, there's lots of business functions. You never know who you're going to find a done a kayaking group one time in Louisiana wasn't it was in town and was on Saturday. I was like, hey, kayaking, on a river for a couple hours. That sounds like a fun time. So we need people. Nothing really came of it as far as patients or friends or anything like that, because they didn't really meet up very often. But I got the scratch an itch go kayak with some people. It was fun. Yeah,
absolutely. And I actually go to probably my most regular one in a meditation on a Monday night. And they they sort of after it took a while. But after going from maybe a few months, they asked me what do you do for on? I'm a chiropractor, and that's actually in a health clinic. So they
Justin Trosclair 29:27
Yeah, wow. Because it was one of those sort of silent ones where you don't really you know, you go in there, there's a talk and then you meditate for 45 minutes straight. You don't with no nothing. So it was challenging. But afterwards, people just chill and whatever. But yeah, after a while, they start to ask me, where are you from? What do you do and all of that, but it does take a while it's really, you just think I'll move to a new place or make all these new friends, I'll be fine. But honestly, yeah, takes
Justin Trosclair 29:55
it will have friends already. Usually,
they do. And, you know, at the end of the day, as you said, it's and you also want to find those people that you gel with, which isn't always easy to I think those people that inspire you, or you've had things in common and that type of thing. And so you need to find groups of people that are doing things that you like to do as well.
Justin Trosclair 30:15
Don't give up.
Don't see yourself going in five years. What's on the docket?
Well, that's a good question. I, I do think when I first got here, and it was so challenging, that I can't see myself going anywhere, except back home one day, because, you know, doing one move to a new country was you know, was intense. I think I'm thinking if I move to another country, it could be just as intense. But lately seeing on past that hump, I feel like maybe there could be another option somewhere there. But I have in the back of my mind, and I do with binding, maybe sort of a holistic gym, which I wouldn't mind creating at some point. So it really depends on where the need is for that type of thing. Australia is the type of place where people aren't like we're quite lucky their health wise, in some ways. We have good food, we have access to good gyms, and there's not a huge amount of stress with lots of space. So I don't know whether my idea for my gym is actually going to be suitable somewhere like a straight. I mean, it could work. They're definitely a big city. But I do think there's probably other places that have more of a need for that. So potentially in five years, maybe that will be where I'll be but I yeah, I'm leaving it open to the universe to decide.
Justin Trosclair 31:28
Yeah, you know, Sydney was interesting. I think six o'clock downtown was done. Yeah, I was like, whatever. You know, I always thought like, you know, you live in a big city. You know, you go get drinks after dark. You know, you get off work. I was like, hey, nothing there. No restaurant. Down. Everything was done. I was like, This is wild.
Yeah, it's a pretty. I thought that soon he was busy and everyone in Australia complaints are Sydney so crazy. It's getting so busy. The traffic, honestly, it's pretty sleepy compared to the rest of the world.
Justin Trosclair 31:55
I'm sure the traffic is horrible, just like every big city. But
yeah, it can. Yeah. But as you said that definitely the nightlife in Sydney has died a little bit as well, which there's a few reasons for that. But uh, but yeah, it is still getting quite busy, but not compared to say Hong Kong. Okay,
Justin Trosclair 32:12
home work life balance, are you able to achieve that at all?
I don't know that you're trying. I mean, I'm definitely trying. And I think when I first got to Hong Kong, it was all about work and actually moved, like a 10 minute walk from work so that I didn't have to meet and you know, with all the people in the MTR entire is amazing. The lights run, but it's so crowded is ridiculous. So I did that, so that I would get a little bit more free time, I wouldn't have to be traveling. And that's that's probably helped. I definitely make sure you know, once or twice a week, I try and get to the beach, and I hang out with a couple of friends and that type of thing. But I'd say work is probably taken over a lot since moving to Hong Kong in some ways. And that's just seems to be the norm here. I mean, people work six days a week, as I probably do in China without even thinking about it.
Justin Trosclair 33:04
Yeah, exactly. Like Like, what two days off you crazy? Yeah. Never heard of that.
And I've been doing that stays awake as well since I got here. Whereas in Australia, it's like for as a chiropractor, four or five days, you might do a few hours morning have a break. You know, it's it's a very different last dollars here. It's expected you during six days away basically last, you're
Justin Trosclair 33:22
still doing six days even former. Yeah, that's surprising.
But if you're if you've got an office job here, it's officially supposed to be five days. But I think because I wanted to do the parties and the Personal Training, I've had to add in a six day, which I'm not entirely pleased with, but I might have to negotiate. Next. Yeah. To try and come on y'all. Yeah. I've been told that, you know, that it takes that to build up in the first year or so. But I sort of feel like maybe it is good to have a slightly better balance. So I'll be working on that. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 33:55
Sign Are you married or dating or anything? Okay.
No, I yeah, I came here single. But, you know, I've met a few nice people here and dated a little bit. But um, yeah, it's not something that, as I said, I'm focusing on too much at the moment, but I'm hoping at some point, you know, that person will come along.
Justin Trosclair 34:15
There you go.
That'll be such an interesting
environment. I think like, just all the different types of people that live there and in the jobs and the work schedule. And what an interesting
scenario, I would think
it is so strange, because I think we've so sheltered in Australia, and every person you meet here, I find and it's not possible, but literally, they've studied some way different. They have a different accent. So mixture of this, make sure that honestly, it's completely it's such a melting pot of nationalities and cultures. It's really weird. Sometimes it's really weird.
Justin Trosclair 34:55
I was in the cow, cow horn, right? Or cow. Oh, my goodness. It's like immigrant area, the whole every every little street is a different nationality. I was not expecting that.
Yeah. And people will like one of my best friends here. She's from Sydney. And we met here, but she's got a Vietnamese background. So she every time she walks around, people try and speak to her in Cantonese, because she's sort of looks, I guess, a little bit like a local, but not really. But then she has this Australian accent. And there's a lot of people like that, that are just a complete mixture. And it's really funny.
Justin Trosclair 35:30
Yeah, Yeah, that'd be pretty well, I like your kind of Asian looking. And oh, wait, you gotta
do that. Yeah, you know, even like the Scottish, Scottish Irish American, such a mixture. And then you'll see the western looking guy who has like a speaking Chinese in Australia. You look over and you're like, wow, that's, you know, there's just such a different mixture of people here. Yeah. Really funny. That is why Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 35:52
Is the culture there where they hit on girls a lot? Or is it more reserved where you're somebody could like you, you wouldn't even know it's
very reserved. Yeah. The men here are very polite, like I, I don't, I've never had any issues being a people say that you're very safe, especially at night, you can go out late at night, come home, walk home. There's no problems whatsoever. And it's actually very reserved culture with dating and that type of thing as far as I can see. So it's nice in that sense, you don't feel threatened at all, as a woman in Hong Kong. any way shape or form? Yeah. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 36:28
They said like in Singapore, there's cameras everywhere. So you do anything you get busted? I'm not sure if it's like that. In Hong Kong.
There are cameras everywhere here to
Justin Trosclair 36:37
Yeah, so I assume you're being watched?
Yeah. So I assume that that's probably why it is so good in that sense. But yes, it's a funny. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic with women here. Like, look at local women in Australia, a lot of them are doing manual work. Whereas you wouldn't see that in Australia. So I might still be carrying bags of garbage and bricks, up four flights of stairs, doing right innovations, all sorts of stuff. There doesn't seem to be that gender role difference where a man supposed to like in Australia, man will do more of that manual work and woman would do probably like, definitely not those types of jobs was here. I think that any work they can get, they'll just do either way. So in some ways, it's, you wouldn't get a man's eye opening the door for you here. Right? like you would in maybe in America or whatever. But they're also not overdone. And I don't know, I can't call and you are you off the schneid at all. So you sort of I guess you're treated quite equal here in that sense. Yeah. And split test.
Justin Trosclair 37:36
Yeah. So it's quite good. We're wrapping this thing up here. Do you have any favorite books or apps that you use on your phone that you just want to drop some knowledge on us for?
So at the moment, I'm relating to? Have you heard of Georgia Spencer? Spencer,
Justin Trosclair 37:52
and not yet, okay, so
he's doing a pacer. He was a chiropractor. But I don't know if he's practicing any. But he's, he would have went and studied neuroscience. And he's, he's basically looking at the brain chemistry and how the brain is affected by meditation. And he's done a lot of studies, which really talk about how beneficial your thoughts are with your feelings and health, basically. So I'm doing a lot of he's meditations. And that's, I guess, if you look up his websites worth taking a look at because it's the research is amazing. And a lot of the work he's doing is awesome. And the other thing I do a lot of is Oprah Winfrey and Deepak Chopra, they also have a meditation app. All right. Yeah, they've combined. So it's a really weird combination. I mean, Oprah, because I, at one point, was really wanting to be a journalist, I was always interested in that quite a lot as one of my heroes. Yeah.
So she's combined with Deepak Chopra, who's, you know, quite a while he's a mixture of Eastern Western medicine. And they've created these apps. And I do a lot of 20, one day meditation series. So I do a lot of this stuff as well. And that's helped me to ground me a lot. And also, the Joe dispenser stuff is amazing for a chiropractic student or someone that has just been you grab, because I think it can be really hard initially, especially if you, your patient, start coming in as much as you want, or, you know, he's struggling to build up a practice. He really talks about your mindset and how important that is, in order to bring in the right clients for you and your ideal job, ideal relations, everything. So I definitely look into that if I was a new grad. And the other thing I do
well, actually, not really that often. But there's this really funny app called My Talking pet.
You want to have a law, and you have like a pet or you have a family's pet, you can put like a voice to the pit. And I've done a few of those videos lately and sent them to my family friends, and honestly say it's hilarious. Oh, my
Justin Trosclair 40:01
goodness, I love the the technology these people have these days.
So that would be my most humorous app. But the other ones are really good for grounding and confidence and helping you to move forward with your goals and achieving what you need to achieve.
Justin Trosclair 40:16
Well, before we wrap this up, I'd like to see is there anything else that you would love to talk about that maybe we didn't cover? Maybe chiropractic with polities? And how can that be combined together, and I look at it as a profitability Ave, as well as something that's, you know, physically good for the patient as well. What are your thoughts?
Well, look, having, you know, suffered a lot of back injuries myself, over the years, I had a lot of polities training. And that really helped me get over those injuries and be able to, you know, compete in China at such a high level. And I think, one of your other questions which we haven't answered with, you know, what was my greatest success as a chiropractor, and I think the biggest thing has been helping athletes, or even just average weekend warrior really perform well at marathon or half marathon, whatever their goal is in this board. And currently, chiropractic and your alignment. And he's geology and different techniques can like help athletes immensely. And I think that you then adding polities, and you sort of added more of a complete package, because I think the problem with athletes or so people that do have a chronic problem is that they're not doing the training at home, or they're not doing the training at the gym, that's, that's right for their body. Whereas if we, if we assess their body, we know exactly what they need, we can then give them some of these exercises or some one on ones or get them to join one of our classes. And we're getting giving them like the complete package of care. And that's what I found really good about doing the parties and even the personal training now. Because all often say to people are Can you bring in your gym program for me, and I have a quick look. And I'll be like, okay, we need to cut out this when he cut out that, that and add this and this. And so it gives me that complete picture of that person's health and how they can succeed in their sport as well. Give us a rundown. Do you know the difference between yoga and pop bodies for those who are like, confused?
There's a big difference. So Yoga is definitely more about stretching. And yes, there's certain poses, which involves strength and balance and that type of thing. But the fundamentals, as far as I can see is more about flexibility, stretching, opening up here, energy and also relaxation, or is cloud is is quite a different process where we're looking at core strength, and we're looking at posture as well. And overall strength and flexibility is combined. But really, it's about cool. And, and I think a lot of the research has shown that if your core is strong, and it's functioning really well, especially pelvic floor as well, that your lower back and you're back will be supported a lot better, less likely to have injuries and also less likely to have your recurrent injuries as well. So it's a little bit more specific polities whereas yoga, I think is is a little bit more about your general feeling well being and health, whereas I think cloud is is more about quality, strength and performance as well.
Justin Trosclair 43:02
If someone was interested in either taking classes from somebody are learning it themselves and integrating it a little bit more like they're not really wanting to be a personal trainer, you know, but they're like I plotted makes sense to me, where can they learn more, or is there like a certification or website that they should go check out,
I take my training through a group called studio parties. And they're based in Brisbane, which in Australia, and they do a lot of online courses. So you can actually do a few of them with you can also do my online course which is which shows your billing information, but they do training courses for trainers. And the good thing is even if you just know the basics of parties, you can definitely teach that to your patients. And going back to the other question is that some people, you can decide from looking at patients what, what their deficits are as to what they need the most. So if somebody is a really tight person really stressed out,
you know, not coping well with Jabal family life or whatever something like gentle yoga would be would probably be beneficial, especially if they're very tight body tight muscles, very inflexible, going to a very structured light, gentle beginner, beginner yoga would be really good. Whereas if somebody else has a reasonable amount of fitness, or even maybe just, they're actually quite already quite flexible, and maybe they're a bit hyper mobile, you wouldn't want to send them to yoga, those sort of people will probably try and go to yoga, because I'll be really good at it won't be good for them. Because I'm like extremist patient, I love my yoga and you just think you don't need it, you know, you're already so flexible. core strength, you need to go to the polarities, to stabilize your joints. So I think if you look at your body, the body type of the patient and also the testing, do flexibility test strength test, you can sort of see which which way they should go, okay, and I do a little bit of both good. But I would suggest people doing even just a short parties course to at least be aware of what it is. And then they can give their their client some exercise and some help with that. And I love that you gave yourself a self plug. That's what my caches are. Just take my classes and you can get a good taste of whether it is you can do it for your patience if you really like it go on and become certified. Well, but the funny thing is, that's that's very true. But when I first got my first ever course together, which I put on my website, it was what's the call, okay, remember what it's called. But basically, it was I think it was called back pain prevention call. So something like that it had a really exciting us. Well, my main website is fine health program. So I think I called it spine health pro or something like that. And I put into it like all the layers of how I teach my patients like the first thing was you know how to have good posture standing sitting in line, then it was how to lift and Ben properly, then it was how to have better flexibility, some general strength exercise, like it was just pretty much how I would what I would run through a patient for what they can do at home over there first, maybe months of treatment. So I was trying to get students to have a look at it because I thought, well, if I'd known this when I graduated, and I put it, I put it into such a nice little package that I thought it'd be really good for students or new grads to have them. And I didn't really sort of I don't know, I guess market it to them. But I guess, you know, those sort of things are really beneficial. Because I feel like when you come out as a new grad, you have all this information, but you don't actually know how to packages system and you don't? Yeah, they don't give you any system. So then you go out into all these different courses. And then you're like, Oh, god, what do I do? Now I've got all this knowledge, but I don't still don't know how to package it. So I think it took me sadly to say probably 10 years. And after 10 years of being practice, I mean, you probably find that suddenly everything falls into place. And then you develop your own system. And you develop your own package of exercises. And yes, you tailor it to each person, but it's really nice to have someone to guide you and go all look, hey, when the person is out of pain, make sure they're lifting and then bending correctly, because they could be stuffing up the back doing that at home or make sure their posture when they're sleeping is ok, because maybe they're stocking up their neck, you know, so it's nice to have that process.
Justin Trosclair 47:10
I think sometimes if you're not really into it, you know, there's a lot of doctors like, I'm not here, you know, as much covers, I'm not here to a bunch of exercises, I'm here to adjust the spine wants to buy to get better, but I do know they need something. So I kind of dabble with a few things. And they should probably go to a seminar, learn some new things. Absolutely. I've been out for a while, but I agree with you the systems part, you know, all these different techniques, but then, you know, how do I you know, I want to jump straight in want to go to level three, and that the patient should be just that level one and you got to learn, yeah, gotta take your time, especially, you know, confidence that they're going to come back too much like, I gotta give it to them now or otherwise, they'll never, they're not gonna come back long enough to actually get the exercises. And as a whole nother conversation, I guess.
Yeah, and you've got to balance it. So some patients, you know, they're, they're only going to do one time. So then you give them most important thing each visit. And then other patients, they really want to list of stuff. So just sort of balance it out so that otherwise you're just you're talking to their feet on deaf ears. So you sort of got to find that balance of what what you think they really need and what they're actually going to be willing to do at home. But if you don't give them anything, I do think that's neglecting a lot of the service that you should be providing.
Justin Trosclair 48:16
Yeah, we have, you know, clients here and we had one the other day my wife was showing them like some real simple stuff like the McGill's top three, you know, exercises, and they're just giggling and laughing and making jokes. And you could just tell they just didn't give two craps. first exercise she just done. Like, they don't care. They're not going to do it. They're not taking it serious. They just have their back pain. She was so mad about it. And then she calm down. But you know, you get those people are you like, I'm trying to help you and you don't even want to help yourself. Like, I don't know what to tell you. I know and just gonna keep hurting. Yeah. And the which was a whiner to though.
Yeah, and the thing is, okay, well, then they're just going to need more ultimately, that those patients are going to have to basically pay more money to you, because they're not willing to do stuff at home. And, you know, sometimes you just realize that's just like, they want you to spoon feed them, which it can be frustrating, but you know, it's I think it's, if you don't at least give them that opportunity to to know what to do then. And sometimes you can tell them three times and it will be the third time that it sinks in, you know that they'll actually be like, yes, I'm going to do that now. And I had this 10 year old boy coming the other day. Yeah, he first ever char passionate basically came in and told me how many times a day to be doing the exercises. And you know, although go
Justin Trosclair 49:26
like this is great that too many times.
It was so funny. And he's 10 going on, you know 25 he wants to be an actor and whatever. And I was like oh wow, I wish all my patient for like you
Justin Trosclair 49:40
these things we need to make sure your form is right if you're going to be doing Yeah, often. And
then he starts reading my Cantonese shot. Like he's he can speak Cantonese, Mandarin and English. And he starts laughing at my you know, shade or Cantonese. And I'm thinking, wow, you know, 10 year old it's like sewing.
Like funny. The kids here out of control, because they really are pushed to study so hard that they're just they're super intelligent. It's really funny.
Justin Trosclair 50:05
It's 30 minutes to eat. And then the other hours after school study, and pretty much
Justin Trosclair 50:10
what can people get in contact with you keep in touch, look at your programs,
probably spawn health program. com is my website. And if you have a look at that,
it might have a bit of information on there. Otherwise, if you go to you to me put my name in, you'll find my my programs, spine health program. com, just tell me look at it now. No worries, running. Okay. I think that summarizes,
Justin Trosclair 50:37
by the way, if you want to know if you're listening to this on the gym in the car, and you don't have time to save the episode, it's FL you are and then castle, or a gh. So if you want to quickly pop it into you to me, you can probably find her.
Thank you. And hopefully I'll be able to give you my website link and you can put that at the bottom somewhere. Maybe I'm totally capable,
Justin Trosclair 51:00
a hyperlink. I appreciate it.
Excellent. Sounds good. I'm going to try and make sure my Oh also
posts on Instagram and Facebook. And that's a really good way of marketing, especially to friends because not that I never used to market to my friends because, well, you know, I didn't want to complicate relationships with end treatment. But the amount of times that they'll tell me I'll plan thanks for these exercises you gave me or I didn't know that you could treat know this or that. And so it's actually a really good way of promoting chiropractic as a whole. So you know, try and get your Instagram and Facebook happening and not can be a bit boring. It's worth it.
Justin Trosclair 51:42
Y'all while you're already on you to me go on over to you need to send me an email taken several Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn classes, Google AdWords, that's what I tried to learn all this stuff was like I could pay some chiropractor $500. And then I could pay this person 10 bucks and probably get more information, but maybe not quite as you know, laser focused on the keywords necessary. But I see a lot of these courses there. Such a plus b will see you like oh my goodness, I already knew that. Come on. So
yeah. And it's all trial and error. And so you can pay someone but they're just sort of having a guess just as you would if you did it yourself anyway. Absolutely. My so keep going give it a shot.
Justin Trosclair 52:20
But that's where this has been fantastic on my end, really enjoyed our conversation. I'm hoping that people will take it what they heard, implement a little bit into their own clinic and see some practice changes for sure.
Right. Thank you so much for having me.
Justin Trosclair 52:36
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai