Justin Trosclair 0:05
Episode 98 trigeminal neuralgia and other facial acupuncture treatment is not just a static. I’m your host, Dr. Justin Foursquare and today for Terry Fox, 20, 2017

and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guest specialties. Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.

Well, well, well, we’re back again, Episode 98. What do you think about the new music? The Indian no video and music? It’s a mixed up episode, or, hey, today’s guests, we’re going to talk about the differences between cosmetic facial and full body acupuncture, and how do you can mix them all together, because you know, you think facial acupuncture, you probably just think, Oh, I’m gonna get rid of some wrinkles, you know, some fake Botox type stuff. But in reality, you can treat kind of the whole body based on your face, and you know, other parts of the body, they enhance it. So he doesn’t just limit himself to one area. Plus, he specializes in things like trigeminal neuralgia, Bell’s palsy, those types of painful face conditions, you know, most people don’t experience that are probably don’t have the skills to treat that very well. But he does. So he’ll walk us through evaluating and treating somebody. And we’ll also discuss, like the different terminology, you know, you saying things that with Chinese words and theory, and a lot of people are like, wow, but then if you just switch it to Western terms that we’re familiar with in a scientific way, right? Oh, that’s what you’re talking about. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And like how technology science really hasn’t caught up to been able to measure some what would acupuncture is doing. At the end of the episode, he discusses his podcast that he has some marketing and a powerful story about his kid and about himself and counseling. You don’t want to miss that. And at the end of the episode, and if we’re lucky, at some point, he’s going to return the favor and I’ll be on his show will play switcheroo and he be the host. All right, a doctor’s perspective, net slash nine eight the show notes as go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China in Fort Collins, Colorado. Today’s guest has the masters from the Colorado School traditional Chinese medicine. He’s got over 150 our certification in Dong external ci healing from a master in Chiang thing, which is a 14 generation person who’s been doing it for that long and a 25th generation long mean Taoist priest pretty wild. Yes, me. He’s certified and cosmetic rejuvenation acupuncture advanced constitutional facial acupuncture renewal, he’s changed with Dr. Pink john and facial wash Ah, which is a no needle facial technique, kind of like a grass and mile fashion, at least for the face feel didn’t know. And is a sweet podcast called the get Foxy show. Please welcome Terry Fox.

Unknown 2:53
Dr. Justin, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you giving me the chance to be on your show show cuz it’s a heck of a good show. Oh, thank you.

Justin Trosclair 3:03
Well, we’re getting so close to Episode 100. I keep talking about it on the pre shows up so excited. You’re almost on the cusp of it. But I wanted to start off the interview. It’s a preemptive is really shameful. Do you know what today is?

Unknown 3:15
It’s not your birthday. Is it?

Justin Trosclair 3:17
Boom, it’s my birthday.

Unknown 3:21
Yes, I did know that. How I know that. I don’t know exactly how I know that. But social media. Happy birthday.

Justin Trosclair 3:28
Thank you, sir. Thank you podcast. No. Okay. I was getting to the show. I guess it’s shameful.

There’s a lot of things you can do in life. You chose acupuncture. I’d like to know how you got into that. And then you kind of just gravitated to the face, which is a whole nother specialty. Obviously spent a lot more time on that. So give us the lowdown on all this. Sure. Well, I can.

Unknown 3:52
I’ll tell you how it I all it all just sort of fell together. When I was 17. My mom was just diagnosed with fibromyalgia. I grew up in rural Wyoming, on a cattle ranch about 20 miles south itty bitty little Buffalo, Wyoming and my mom was the high school secretary. She worked in the principal’s office. And so we’d come home from school after school, she would either have me my brother, my dad, rubber shoulders at night. And after a while, she would say Huh, your dad rubs too hard. And your brother just can’t do it. Right. And so I became the designated shoulder rubber at home.

Unknown 4:43
And so one night she said while I while I was doing this, she said you know, maybe you want to think about doing this professionally. And it was like a lightning went off in my head. It was like what I could I could do that. So that that idea stuck with me. I didn’t immediately go to massage therapy school after high school, I think around in junior college for a few years, got an associate’s degree in English and then what am I going to do with an associate’s degree in English.

Unknown 5:17
So I ended up going to massage therapy school, I ended up at the top College of massage therapy and Salt Lake City. And that’s where I got my first real major exposure to traditional Chinese medicine theory. And I got that through Japanese shots in class applied kinesiology, we were taught form of it called touch for health, that has some Chinese medicine ideas behind it. And then I also had an acupressure class. So it started giving me these ideas. I’d also studied a little bit of I keto while I was in junior college, so that to expose me to some of these ideas, but I found it really fascinating. Just it. I want every little bit I learned I wanted to learn more. And so when I got out of massage therapy school and ended up in Laramie, Wyoming, working at Ivan sin Memorial Hospital, I helped start the first hospital based massage therapy program in the state there, which was really cool, because I mean, it was it was a cutting edge for Wyoming. And I had some experiences in the hospital, using acupressure on patients where I thought, dang, if I knew how to do this, like an acupuncturist, these people might not even be in here because I was what I’d learned is what I now call cookbook, acupuncture, where, you know, I went through these smaller courses, and was given a manual with a list of acupuncture points and this acupuncture point is good for that large intestine for is good for a frontal headache for sample. And yeah, you massage that are needle it, it works, it’ll treat a frontal headache. But when you start getting into more complex things like fibromyalgia, for example, knowing cookbook, acupuncture isn’t quite as effective. You’ve got to know meridian there, you’ve got to know your points. You’ve got to know much more about the body and how it works. And so I decided that I wanted to go to acupuncture school. Well, lo and behold, as that idea was percolating, you know, it’s funny how the universe works. My program got canceled the administration, the hospital changed, their priorities changed, and they said, Well, your program Well, the official word was your program isn’t making enough money but my meeting with the with the chief financial officer revealed that. I mean, he flat out told me to my face, he said, I think what you do is Boudou. I thought massage therapy Voodoo. Come on. Okay, I’m going to go to acupuncture school. I’m gonna learn some real Voodoo, and then I’m going to bring it back to Wyoming.

Unknown 8:14
And that was the plan. That was the plan. So I left Laramie, and went to the Colorado School of traditional Chinese medicine down in Denver. That was in 2003. And that’s where I went through their program and got my master’s degree in traditional Chinese medicine. And, yeah, the plan was to take it back to Wyoming. But I ended up in Fort Collins, which is just justice our Wyoming. Yes, I I had an offer here in Fort Collins I really couldn’t pass up plus the beer culture here is absolutely amazing. The craft beer culture. Here we are in the Napa Valley of beer. And so well, I I couldn’t I couldn’t make it across the border. I ended up in Colorado and I like it here. I’m pretty spoiled.

Justin Trosclair 9:09
For Collins is nice. I mean, it is one of those places where you better be ready to fight for what you want, because the competition is fierce if you want to be in Fort Collins,

Unknown 9:20
you know, it didn’t used to be that way. But it’s starting to get that way. Although I will say that we have a fantastic acupuncture community here in Northern Colorado. And and yes, in one aspect. Yeah, we are competitive. We are competitors. That being said, we’re all about collaboration. And so we actually have a group of us we’ve got a Facebook page, Northern Colorado, acupuncturist Facebook page where we all interact and we will actually meet once a month month just for cocktails just to shoot the breeze see how we can support one another and we’ve learned what one another’s specialties are, so that you know if I don’t really like treating fertility. Okay, so now I’ve met three other acupuncturists in Fort Collins do. And so now when I’ve got patients that call me and say, Hey, do you do fertility treatments? I can say no. But guess what? Rachel blank over here. Does fertility work? Emma Goulart does fertility work? Let me refer you to them. And then vice versa. They know I really, I dig the facial work. And so when they have patients with trigeminal neuralgia, Bell’s Palsy or they’re looking for aesthetic or cosmetic work, then they send them my way and it it all works out. We take care of our own we help each other. And so in that regard, we’re not really competitors we’re collaborators.

Justin Trosclair 10:58
Now No, I’m not for earlier I think puncture series we had dedicated to acupuncturist we have Michelle jealous, jealous who teaches facial acupuncture and we had an

amazing video like there are other people that teach it. So you actually use other people, which I thought like, Oh darn, the small world

Unknown 11:16
isn’t quite small enough. I’m so wanting to train with Michelle. I just haven’t gotten around to gathering the funds to get to Florida to train with her. Yeah. I have trained well, my training. The facial side of it came initially from doc Ron Rosen. And Ron was the first licensed acupuncturist in the state of Colorado. He helped he was one of the pioneers in Colorado to help get acupuncture actually legal. He was one of the founding members of the state acupuncture Association. And he was actually a more of a dia de practitioner, dia dot and hit fall medicines or, or orthopedic style backup, where you’re treating a lot of sports injuries that comes from the martial arts side of the medicine. But doc ID trained in Taiwan for a while and learned this facial acupuncture technique that he called cosmetic acupuncture. And one well actually two of his students, Denise challenger, and then Martha Lucas took his technique and they got together and they added to it, and then rebranded what they had as Mazin cosmetic acupuncture. And that’s one of the more popular styles of cosmetic acupuncture being taught right now. I believe Oprah has had maze and cosmetic acupuncture on. Yeah. And Martha teaches this style all over the world. She and Denise ended up splitting. So Martha still has the maze and brand Denise teaches cosmetic rejuvenation, acupuncture, and they’re very similar. Denise has taken the style in one direction, Martha has taken it in a different direction, but they’re very similar. So I trained also with Denise, and I’ve done some training with Martha for her her pulse diagnosis work, but nothing specifically for her cosmetic work. But again, she’s also on my list. My goal is to train with as many teachers as I can, so I can really absorb and get the best bits from every single technique. So I’ve also trained with Mary Elizabeth Wakefield, and her constitutional

Unknown 13:53
constitutional facial acupuncture style. And she she makes sure that called constitutional because cosmetic the word cosmetic means something that’s superficial, it’s on the outside, it’s only skin deep, and constitutional facial acupuncture treats more than just skin deep, but it treats your general health and wellness along with it. So Mary Elizabeth, very adamant, do not call this cosmic call it constitutional.

Justin Trosclair 14:28
Well, okay, so this is interesting, because you’re in a lot of these names. If you’re in acupuncture, and you listen to this, you’d like, that’s good, that’s good. The rest of us were like, whoever those are, just like with the researchers, you like, whoever those guys are, I should know who these people are, but I don’t. So that’s good information. The cosmetic acupuncture, you can have before and afters. You gotta droopy I or you just want like a little bit of a facelift or maybe something like that. The Constitutional side. That’s when we’re talking Bell’s Palsy Milliken that you’re seeing respond well, to like both of those types, I’m guessing you have to approach it a little bit differently, depending on the patient’s issues.

Unknown 15:08
You know, it does depend on the patient’s presentation. But with both the constitutional facial work, and the cosmetic work, both address the patient’s general health and wellness. And that’s why Mary Elizabeth would call it constitutional. And that’s just traditional Chinese medicine. In general, we take a basic, traditional Chinese medicine treatment and traditional Chinese medicine has five branches. So we’re looking at acupuncture, we’re looking at Chinese herbal medicine, we’re looking at Chinese dietetic, we’re looking at massage therapy, and we’re looking at she Gong or energy enhancing exercise.

Justin Trosclair 15:52
Do you think that quote, fix a kidney issue through the face?

Unknown 15:55
Yes. Technically cam,

Justin Trosclair 15:58
yeah, whatever legal terms supposed to be able to use, like, I don’t think anything, whatever that technical term is, but you could you can work on kidneys, and livers and all that kind of stuff through the face.

Unknown 16:07
Yes, the idea is that all all the meridians essentially are connected to the head and face. But I do needle body points as well, especially when I’m doing more of the aesthetic cosmetic type work. Because when you’re working so much with putting needles in the face, that draws a lot of energy up to the upper part of the body. So it’s helpful to needle other parts of specially the feet to help ground that energy and keep somebody from getting headaches, nose bleeds dizziness, these kinds of things. Because if you’re, if you’re doing too much needling, up top, then you can create imbalance. And so we do use body needles to help balance things out and keep things in a state of regularity.

Justin Trosclair 17:05
And I always thought the the cool part about the feet was you could treat the whole body on the feet on the ear, you know, and all that stuff. Like, I’ve never really studied enough of the feet to like get into it all. But uh, it’s kind of cool that your bottom of the foot or wherever part of the foot and the face at the same time to really, you know, balance it out and everything. That’s it’s interesting that that’s the way you you go with it.

Unknown 17:25
Oh, you bet. Well, again, we’re talking traditional Chinese medicine and Yin and Yang. So if the head is young, then you go to the end you you go to the feet, you use the lower to help treat the upper. And vice versa. You could use the face, if somebody’s got a foot problem, you could essentially treat the face to help the feet. But in this case, mine right now.

Unknown 17:51
In this case, we’re actually treating the feet to help the face one of one of my teachers, Master Yun Shang song or his new names Chen. He taught my whoo Dong, external cheeky or in class. He was really big on foot baths. And he said an old Chinese adage is you torture the lower to treat the upper, you use a really hot foot bath with Chinese herbs. And he liked green tea and peach seed. And would put these in footpads. And the nature of these herbs is that they’re detoxifying and heat clearing from a Chinese medicine standpoint, they clear toxic heat from the meridians. And so you would be their feet in this green tea and peach seed, and it would help clear heat and inflammation from the face, especially the stomach meridian. So right along the cheeks, and the jaw line, if you’re getting acne breakouts, for example, this is a form of inflammation and heat, this foot bath would help clear that. And so he was a big fan of those. And that’s something I encourage my patients to do is do a foot bath to help beautify your face.

Justin Trosclair 19:08
That’s something they do here. You know, you go to get a massage or something. And they always have you soak your feet, partially because I think your feets think here, you know, some for some people, but it always has tea in there, which is why I was like, Okay, I’ll suck my feet in the tea. And then one place would use a capsaicin type of lotion. So not only are you the hot, hot, watery, like, Can you turn it down a little, you’ve got the T everything smelling good, apparently doing something as well, then they put the oil and you’re like, who is burning as hot. But you know, it all feels good at the end. And like you said, there could be other things going on that I don’t even realize. And that’s the nice thing about it was you don’t have to believe it is like chiropractic. It’s not who you want to believe it to make it work. Amen to that. It is nice, if

Unknown 19:52
you believe is going to work. It does how you bet. I mean, there is there is power to the placebo effect, I am not afraid to say that I will make use of the placebo effect. I mean, if I’ve got a patient that comes in, and immediately I say, you know what, you’re in the right place. And by Gosh, we’re going to have a great treatment today, you’re going to see results. There right there. I’ve implanted that message, there’s placebo effect right there

Justin Trosclair 20:17
that 37% only last for so long. And let’s get results then. And I Oh,

Unknown 20:22
ok. I am with you. So yeah, it works. And there. There’s a lot of research being done out there now about acupuncture. And you can find a bunch of it on PubMed. And, you know, we’re starting to understand more about it. It’s not some new age mystical thing of are a lot of studies showing that it has an effect on the nervous system on the endocrine system. There’s research now about gas Oh transmitters, and its effect on nitric oxide, this fascinating stuff. So it works on the body on multiple levels. And it’s so much fun, acupuncture could get a little bit more mainstream, because he used a lot of Chinese words. And I know for a lot of doctors, they’re like, Oh my gosh, like, you just sound goofy. It sounds so whoo, whoo. Now, if they started switching out those terms for some of the scientific, what are we find in the research? Do you think you would gain more popularity and be easier for people to digest? I believe so. I think as research continues to happen, and we start learning what these specific mechanisms are, then yeah, we’ll be able to break that language barrier between modern medicine, modern allopathic medicine and the medical terminology we use there and traditional Chinese medicine where the language we use sounds a little hokey to modern years, because we’re, we’re using ancient language in ancient metaphors to describe what’s going on in the body.

Justin Trosclair 22:05
Yeah, see fibers and gnosis sectors and all that stuff and mechanical receptors. And that’s how this works. And that works. Yeah, people are like, oh, OK, now I now understand what you’re doing. That makes more sense. But the science, you know, conference at the same way, what what are you doing? I don’t know, cracking the back, come on, Justin, it’s not cracking a bag. Yeah, you know, you can go real deep these days. But then you’ve always got to dumb it right back down for the average person who’s not really going to understand or care less even put it that way. They don’t care really how it works on science basis. But as a doctor, you need to know what it is, so that you can explain it to them. And if they they want more information, they can find it. But for a long time, we just like I don’t know, it worked. Just in the last 10 years, maybe 15 years, we’re really able to quantify and do these tests to figure out what we’re doing. And unfortunately, I think acupuncture because of you know, maybe now that we have some of the higher end technology, maybe some memorize, and then you can start seeing change is in different ways and on the cellular level, going deep, real deep with these microscopes, and start saying, oh, wow, look, these cells chain, and this is how they change. And it only took 3000 years to figure out because it’s catching up for you already knew. Yep. What are you finding some of the more common conditions that you’re seeing that you specialize in? And then maybe some of the common misconceptions that you’re having to work with on a weekly basis?

Unknown 23:24
Okay, well, uh, the things that I like to work with, and what kind of comes easy to me. I for years, I mean, prior to getting into the facial work, I did really good with musculoskeletal pain. I mean, especially since I started out as a massage therapist, I really understood the muscles and the origins, the insertions, the tendons, and how all that worked together. So when somebody came in with a sports injury or something, boy, I could just take care of things. And that’s still a lot of fun for me. But once I started learning about the facial work, and one of the reasons I got into the facial work is because I had Bell’s Palsy when I was 10. Oh, and so I ended up having a baseball accident, and missed a pop fly, I was trying to catch it, instead of it going into my glove, I caught it right in the eye socket.

Unknown 24:22
And so going through that experience with Bell’s Palsy really gave me a heart to serve people who are dealing with those kinds of things. And then later on, my mom ended up developing trigeminal neuralgia along with fibromyalgia. So that too, was like, oh, how can how can I help her? And as I started going through this training, it was like, okay, yes, I really have a heart for people with any sort of facial palsy or any of these facial nerve can auditions because, I mean, trigeminal neuralgia is, it’s labeled as the suicide disease, because it’s so painful, brutal. Yeah, I mean, you feel like you’ve been struck by lightning in your face, or stabbed with an ice pick in your face, just by doing small things like brushing your teeth are trying to eat. And it’s, it’s hard, there’s so much we can do with acupuncture to help us settle that nerve inflammation, with the needles and with Chinese herbal medicine, that it’s it really, all I’m gonna say here, it brings joy to my heart, I guess that’s a simple way to put it is it I just really, it makes me so happy. Yeah, able to help somebody who either has their face drooping on one side, and they’re so self conscious, and spooked, that it’s never going to get better. Because you know, some some cases of bells don’t get better. And the sooner you can treat it, the sooner you can start seeing results, which is which is a good thing. And the same with Trigeminal man, I mean, when when you can get somebody out of that kind of pain, and they’re saying, oh, thank you so much, I can actually eat again, and then the aesthetic and cosmetic work that That to me is a joy, because I really enjoy working with women, I’ll work with guys to that’s not a problem. And guys are starting to become more and more conscious about their faces, or at least the younger guys are. This is I mean, our faces are organic business card, whether or not we know it consciously, we all read faces, and we can all see the lines on someone’s face. And you can look at somebody’s face and tell whether or not there are sad person, they’re an angry person there a crazy person, or they’re a happy person, we all intrinsically know how to read a face. But in traditional Chinese medicine, we’ve we’ve kind of codified what these lines on our face mean, and their, their by specific emotions. So for example, these, these lines right in between the eyebrows that people call frown lines, or the 11th. Or some of us just have a single line right down the middle of the Chinese call that a hanging dagger, this area, the face corresponds to the liver. And in Chinese medicine, the emotion that’s associated with the liver tends to be anger, irritation, and frustration. And so if you’re constantly feeling anger, or you’re irritated or frustrated about things, these globe Bell or muscles that activate the eyebrows to clench those eyebrows, create those lines on the face. And so from a Chinese medicine standpoint, what I do is one, we address that emotion I talked to my patients about, okay, where in your life, are you feeling these emotions, and let’s get awareness around those emotions, then we can needle body points that associate with those organs in those emotions, then I also needle specifically, the muscle groups that are activated for those and release the tension in those. And then if the lines are also written in the skin, then we can needle more superficially in the skin and get the collagen and the last and, and everything remodeling in that area as well. And so these women can come in who have these lines that they’re not proud of that they they look in the mirror and they go, Oh, I just wish I could change this. And it becomes more of a self esteem sort of issue, we can work with that they come off my table, they look in the mirror and go, Wow, I can see change. That line isn’t near as deep Wow. And then they get a big smile on their face, I get a hug, and they’re happy and they go home. And that happiness then reverberates throughout their relationships, because they feel more loving toward themselves, which means they also will feel more loving to their family to their friends, they’ll be more confident in their business relationships. And it’s just this wonderful ripple of that. And it’s the same rest,

Justin Trosclair 29:40
which one is the kidney on your faith,

Unknown 29:42
the kidney area tends to be underneath the eyes. So these these dark circles under the eyes relate to deficiency in the energy the kidneys.

Justin Trosclair 29:55
Okay, this is what you meant by the constitutional because you went through a lot of stuff right there, which is really, that’s kind of cool i is there’s a several step process. We’re not just having the better muscles.

Unknown 30:07
Yeah, this is this is very involved. I mean, it is it’s much more than just regular traditional Chinese medicine, there’s there’s a lot more training to it. But yeah, there are just like you can treat the whole body with the foot through foot reflexology or the ear with a regular therapy. There are areas mapped out on the face that correspond to specific organ systems. And so I can look at the face and look at the complexion, because different colors of the complexion are indicative of things. So for example, if you’ve got somebody who has very red cheeks, and the redness shows up more, in the afternoon and evening, this is usually indicative of what we would call a yin deficiency type heat. So Yun is the cooling moistening aspect of the body. And if it is deficient, then there is a relative excess of young, which is more the warming, drying aspect of the body. And so you can see this in the cheeks, they’ll be this kind of dove redness that shows up more in the afternoon or evening. And so okay, as soon as I see that I go, Okay, this person is a good bet. There’s some Yin deficiency, usually related to the kidneys as well. So we talked about Okay, are there any other kidney Yin deficiency symptoms that we see in your life? And if there are okay, well, then boom, we’ve got it. Let’s talk about treating those kidneys. Very good.

Justin Trosclair 31:46
The doctors here it’s 90 degrees outside all the time and the air conditions here, or junk, and they see me sweating like, oh, Justin, your kidneys are so bad. And I’m like, come on, man. I don’t know how your genes the let you sweat. But like the Chinese people, they just don’t sweat as much. They just, you know, there’s white people like that to where you know, they run a marathon and you like you barely sweat. I don’t understand this. Thanks. We would just sweat more. But that’s one of that’s why I was curious. Cuz that’s what they say for me like, Oh, your kidneys or weaken? I’m like, Okay, well, you’re not really offering a solution, you’re just telling me there’s a problem.

Unknown 32:21
Yes. And that’s where that’s where you end up having to go see a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner to give you more insight the kidneys are extremely important in traditional Chinese medicine, they’re seeing kind of like the batteries of the body, they they store the congenital essence. And the idea in Chinese medicine is that we get our energy from two sources, we we get it from the congenital essence, which is the energy given to us by our parents at the moment of our conception, and there’s only a little limited amount of that energy. The other form of energy that we get is the energy from the food we eat, the air we breathe and the water we drink. And this is called post Natal she or post post heaven she, I just basically call it food g it’s it’s the energy we get from the food that we eat. And the idea is that you use

Justin Trosclair 33:24
both as you live, okay, genetics and what your diet is.

Unknown 33:29
Yes. And so the idea is you want to live off of the energy of your food and not necessarily tap into that kidney energy if you don’t have to, because there’s only a limited amount. And once that amount is used, supposedly, that’s when you die as that energy is used up and that glass of energy starts to get lower and lower and more empty. That is how we age and that what kicks off our aging process. And that’s that’s what the ancient Chinese doctors taught. Now that’s that’s completely different from what we talked about modern medicine, but it there’s some crossover there with congenital essence and genetics.

Justin Trosclair 34:14
We’re talking mitochondria, we’re talking DNA, we’re talking all that the epi, what is it?

Unknown 34:20
epigenetics?

Justin Trosclair 34:20
epigenetics stuff? Like? Yep. Again, that’s what I’m like, what you’re saying, like, yeah, okay, you’re using these words, but in my mind goes, Yeah, all that stuff is that’s rejuvenation science. That’s I want to live to 100 years old, biohacking type of stuff, just different words and different approaches to taking care of it and keep it healthy and balanced.

Unknown 34:37
So as you’re living in China, yeah, you definitely want to take care of your kidneys.

Justin Trosclair 34:43
Talk to the TCM department, we just lost one of our one of our good doctors, they went to the Main Hospital in town, it’s have a private hospital. So person we have now, I don’t know, I don’t know if he’s good or not the it’s kind of, as they say, in Chinese medicine. He’s kind of a young,

they don’t really like, Can we get someone who has about 10 or 15 years experience, these young uns, they don’t know what they’re doing quite yet, as is the, what I’ve kind of noticing. But it’s so funny the stuff you’re talking about. Over here, it’s it’s normal, like anybody can talk to you about like some of this stuff, because it’s just ingrained in how they think. And that’s the culture and they just see it, they’re like, Oh, you should probably go get that checked out. Or, you know, go to someone who’s really good, they probably give you a whole bunch of different herbs. And I’ve mentioned this before, when see a guy felt the pulse. And like, yeah, you know, I guess the digestion issues or whatever, and 20 or 20 different ingredients. He’s like, you know, told me how to use it and all this kind of stuff that’s like, Wow, that’s a lot from a pulse in a couple of questions. So that he was probably 65 years old, third or fourth generation,

Unknown 35:44
as well, post takings in art. I mean, that is that is one of the art forms of this medicine I am I consider myself a baby when it comes to pulse taking. And I’ve been taking pulses now. Geez, since 1999. So you know, I mean, almost 20 years, and I get a fair amount of information from my pulse taking. But I mean, there’s there’s masters out there that are on that spooky level where they don’t even need to talk to you or ask you questions, I’ll just take your pulse. And then they can tell you your whole medical history. And that, to me, is mind blowing on. But there are guys out there that can do that. I don’t have that talent.

Justin Trosclair 36:33
You know, what if you can get a little bit of this from this and this and this and this, you got a complete picture, we’re not going to judge you. I’m not gonna I’m not gonna judge you. Hey, that’s why we have more than one bag of tricks. That’s what I always say.

Unknown 36:45
Amen to that. That’s why I think it’s important that patients see multiple disciplines. You know, I can only do so much my medicine has its strengths and weakness is your medicine has its strengths and weaknesses. This doctors medicine over here has its strengths and weaknesses. And when we can all collaborate and your strengths may minimize my weaknesses, why wouldn’t I send my patient to you? I mean, that’s that’s the way it should be. you’ve trained on a lot of people and like so like most is very much learning from somebody else. So if you were to go to China and meet somebody and spend six months with this person in six months with that person and come back to America, you’re going to have a talent set. That’s gonna be way different than somebody else down the street just because of the people that you studied under in the patients that you saw with your intensive studying on site. I would think I would agree with you. Okay.

Justin Trosclair 37:41
Hey, let’s switch gears a little bit. You got the sexy Foxy know the the Foxy show this I always think sexy Foxy. I guess that was kind of your, your point of that knowledge. I am sex. Yeah. Yeah, you’ll see the picture this guy?

I think yes, they use a mustache cream, probably.

Unknown 38:00
You know, I do wax on on occasion to help train this mustache. And I am a member of the Rocky Mountain beard mustache club. So I do I do compete occasionally in beard mustache competitions.

Unknown 38:14
It’s a fun little hobby.

Justin Trosclair 38:17
So let’s talk about what is your podcast? What do you What’s your specialty? I know, it’s kind of geared towards women. I know. For myself, sometimes my women interviews feel a little bit more jovial and kind of easier to connect with. That’s just, that’s the patients we talked to a lot more more than guys are guy interviews are still good. They’re just a little bit of a different deal to them, in my opinion. So what’s your goal here?

Unknown 38:39
Well, you know, I didn’t really intentionally get into podcasting. I fell into it. I want to door prize at a networking event, a fellow by the name of Richard Keller, who runs wouldn’t pants publishing and media had this price. He said he would help someone there’s some business owner produce four episodes of a podcast, and I ended up winning this thing. And I went,

Justin Trosclair 39:10
I thought, big prize. hours.

Unknown 39:14
Sit there going, Okay. Great. What do I do with this? And so I sat down with Richard and we started talking. And I thought, you know, what I do is I help women look younger, and get healthier. I’m not the only guy that can do that. There are other people in this world that can also help in that regard. And so I said, Okay, there’s my show, we’re going to talk about natural beauty. We’re going to talk about holistic health. And we’re going to talk about passionate living, because those are the kind of people that you want to be around and enjoy. Are these people that are going out living passionately and doing thing. And so so all right. There’s what I’m going to talk to, and who am I going to make this show for? Well, why not just make it for my perspective, patients just as as kind of an additional way that they can find things to help enhance their own lives. And there was it just fell right in my lap. So here I am. I’ve been at it about well, it’s almost a year and a half. I just put out episode. Let’s see. I guess that was Episode 35. I released last week. By the time you this episode airs on your show. I’ll probably be much further along than that. But yeah, it’s it’s been so much fun because I get to talk to guys like you. And I definitely would like to have you on the show sometime soon.

Unknown 40:57
And I get to meet some really awesome amazing people that I wouldn’t have met otherwise Rolodex is getting bigger. Yeah, I’ve had some really amazing folks like Polly laptop ski. On the show she, she’s the first woman she’s in the Guinness Book of World Records for walking around the world. I’ve had Jeffrey Gurion on the show. He’s a former cosmetic dentist, turned professional comedian, who’s written for guys like Andrew Dice Clay and Rodney Dangerfield, but he’s also into energy work. And and so he’s written a book about healing your heart by changing your mind. So we got I got to talk to him about his book. And Alana Pratt, who is a relationship and transformation coach, where do you find these people? Oh, my goodness. Well,

Justin Trosclair 41:57
some specific thing, like I just got to mind jobs. So easy. I just got to find a doctor that I think is interesting, what kind of doctor and the doctor because that’s what I care about. But for you, like you kind of have to be specific. Like you can’t just be waking up on a Monday and blows. Find a doctor today. I gotta start researching.

Unknown 42:13
Well, yeah, that is true. I do have to research my folks. But once I got going first I started by just kind of tapping my own personal network, and asking people that I knew if they would like to be on the show. And sure enough, yeah, most folks are like, Yeah, totally. I’ll be on the show. And then I start asking them, well, who do you know, that would fit these categories of holistic health, natural beauty, passionate living? And then I’ll say, Oh, yeah, well, I know so and so. Well, I would love an introduction to them. And these introductions and I get to meet these people. And then of course, yeah, I do do my research, because I have had perspective guest who I thought looked pretty legit. But once I started doing a Google search for them, I found Oh, wow, there, they are currently being sued for creating a multimillion dollar Ponzi scheme. Hello, hey, it’s like, Okay, I have to vet the people that come on my show before I let them on the show. And it was a good lesson for me to learn. So yeah, I do definitely research the people that are on the show, because I do want to bring good people on my show who can be very helpful to the people who listen. And that’s ultimately the goal is to bring their expertise to my listeners. And I’m sure it’s the same way for you. Now, I

Justin Trosclair 43:51
want to ask about like marketing, and you probably got to do some kind of marketing. And obviously, this is going to be a piece of it. Do you see yourself using this as local but all so potentially being invited to different conferences across the nation? Or guest speakers? Are you have any plans for like, that part of business life with this podcast?

Unknown 44:09
You know, initially, I had no idea what I was going to be using it for it because it just sort of fell in my lap. Right. But as I’ve started building the show, and really starting to get into the podcasting community, and meeting other podcasters and learning about podcasting, because it’s like, Okay, I know nothing about this. So I’m starting to read books. I’m looking at websites, and I’m talking to other people who podcast and it’s like, Wow, there are possibilities here for Yes, I could use this for marketing purposes locally, it’s a good way to meet people nationally, yes, maybe I could end up getting some kind of speaking gigs, here or there or somewhere because of this podcast, that there’s a lot of possibilities. And I haven’t honestly explored all of them yet. But it’s, it’s really kind of neat. And I’m excited to see where it goes. But But for right now, it’s just okay, I get out there. I speak, my guests speak, and we bring value to our listeners. And that’s, that’s the main goal at the moment, but where this takes me,

Justin Trosclair 45:29
what’s your personality comes out in your show, I obviously I tuned into one or two episodes, and I was like, Okay, all right, this guy’s gonna be good for my show, as I hadn’t, he knows what he’s doing is good.

What do you do locally, the market?

Unknown 45:43
You know, for the most part, I it’s, it’s a lot of word of mouth from my patients. But you know, you can’t rely just on word of mouth I, that was what really kind of made me have my what I call entrepreneurial epiphany. About eight years into my practice, I kept thinking, I know I’m a good practitioner, why am I not seeing more patients? Well, it was just I was relying on my patients to tell other people, it doesn’t work that way. So what I’ve done, I’m, I’m pretty good chatting with people. So I’ve started just going to local networking events, and different networking groups. I started out with big business networking International. Yeah. And that was that was a pretty handy little group, because it gave me the opportunity to start learning how to speak to normal folks. And tell them what I’m doing without using traditional Chinese medicine jargon, that that’s confusing. And that gave me a lot of practice. And it also plugged me into the community, because I didn’t know anybody, okay, well, guess what, in a big chapter, their category specific, so they want a plumber, they want a chiropractor, they want a hairstylist, and all these different professions, you get one of each in the group. And so plugged me into all of these people with all of these different resources that were local, that I could then use their services, but they could also then go about referring to me, and it was, it was pretty fantastic. But I ended up getting a little complacent, and started just relying specifically on that group. And when was that that was about 2008, the economy started to tank. And I decided to step out of that group, because unfortunately, with some networking groups, you can you can get into politics. Yeah, and that kind of happens with any group anytime you get a group of people together.

Unknown 48:01
But so I decided, you know what, I’m gonna step away from this and see what else I can do. So that got me more hungry for different marketing practices. And I looked at other other networking groups, I also looked at other things like CEO space International, I started looking at public speaking training, so that I could start doing more talks, and just getting out front of people. And that’s primarily how I’ve been doing things is I’ve either been talking, I’ve been networking, or I do the podcast or writing comes easily to me, they’re there that English degree from Casper college, they work.

Unknown 48:49
I do do a little bit of writing on my blog, and, you know, there’s there is a part of me that’s like, Ah, you know, I’m sure there’s a book in here somewhere. So of mentally, you know, there, there may be a book in the future that I’ll be writing. There’s, there’s a lot of stuff one can do. But for the most part, it’s just interpersonal interaction that I’ve been relying on speaking, usually one on one with people is how I’ve been marketing my practice, either through networking, or through these newer speaking events, where I’m actually speaking to more smaller groups. And that’s, that’s where I’m at, at the moment.

Justin Trosclair 49:29
I mean, you’re doing the stuff you gotta do. That’s the hardest thing you have to do is to get out there and meet people and get out of your comfort zone. And Sunday will take a risk to go to be no cost money. And it’s a lot of time, oh, yeah, I had the same experience, like for a while is really good. And then you get complacent, or the group gets kind of the dynamic. And you have to switch groups, switch companies are say, okay, the course is done now need to try something else. And so so kudos to you to realizing that and figuring out your own path and doing the uncomfortable stuff, which is something just putting yourself out there and meeting people shaking hands, if you don’t want to do it.

Unknown 50:03
I didn’t really get into that until I got a business coach. And it was business coach, who said, Look, the magic happens when you get out of your comfort zone. And so yeah, you’re going to have to stretch yourself a little bit. And you’re going to have to get used to dealing with your fear. And there again, we’re talking traditional Chinese medicine, when there’s a mental emotional aspect to each organ system in traditional Chinese medicine. Well guess what? emotion affects the kidneys. Fear, ah. And so when you start learning how to manage fear, you’re also working with that kidney system. And when you can start getting yourself to where you’re comfortable, in fear, not letting fear control you, but it letting fear be more of a motivator for you, then you’re less taxing of your kidneys, you’re not draining that kidney energy, you’re actually using that energy to propel propel you forward. And that is where traditional Chinese medicine thought comes into that thought process of Yeah, the magic is in stepping outside the comfort zone, stretching yourself and doing things that scare you a little bit. You’re not only a spokesman,

Justin Trosclair 51:34
you’re actually a user. Yes. That, hey, we know your time is, is coming to an end here. Before we go into the personal What are your websites and your podcast?

Unknown 51:45
You bet. The podcast website is the get Foxy show.com. And you can find it on boy, I’ve got it on Google Play, Apple podcast stitcher tune in Spotify, and I Heart Radio. So you can you can find it on all those venues. Or you can just go right to the website to get Foxy, show calm. I’ve also got a Facebook page for the group as well. So you can find out what’s going on there and join the conversation there. My business website is artesian spring, oh, which stands for oriental and M for medicine. So artesian spring o m.com. And I’ve got a lot of good resources there regarding acupuncture, aesthetic and facial acupuncture, I also have a little bit information there about some of the herbal products that I make. I’ve got a trauma limit that I make from traditional Chinese medicine, herbs, and a couple of other products I play around. It’s It’s not my

Unknown 52:55
it’s not my love. But it’s it’s fun to do. So I have a couple of product on the site as well. But you can find more information there as well over at artesian spring, Om calm,

Justin Trosclair 53:08
perfect. Personal. I’m gonna give you a choice. Your solo practitioner, you got a wife, you got kids, you want to answer questions about vacation, keeping the love alive, or having a home life balance, which would you prefer?

Unknown 53:20
Uh, well, you know, I think they’re all connected, honestly, comes to your home life balance. It’s it’s all about setting priorities and deciding what you want. And so what I want in life, I want a happy family part of having that happy family is being able to spend time with them. And if you want to spend quality time with your family, a vacation is a good place to do that.

Justin Trosclair 53:49
And in Colorado, you don’t even have to go anywhere. There’s not really

Unknown 53:53
not really I mean, we’ve we’ve got a beautiful, beautiful state here. So a staycation is a wonderful thing. And, you know, I also happen to have my in laws that live here in Fort Collins, and they like spending time with their grand babies. So it’s easy enough to also get a date night in there with my wife every so often. So that, you know, we can keep that spark alive as well. Because you know, when you’re cracking on your business, and you’re still trying to, you know, keep that relationship alive. I’ve had some pretty big challenges in that regard. My oldest son, he’s 10. Now when he was five, he was diagnosed with leukemia. And so having to go through the challenge of treating his cancer, I mean, totally wrecked the family dynamic for a while, and learning how to communicate with my wife and putting those pieces back together. And really, as a man learning how to express my weakness and my vulnerability became key for keeping our relationship together. Because for a while there, I felt like I was I had to be strong, and I had to keep it together. And I couldn’t show any weakness. And that, that drove me a little crazy. I ended up having to go to a mental health professional because I started having suicidal and homicidal thoughts. And I knew that wasn’t right. So we needed to get that figured out. And eventually going through and talking to somebody and going through some training. I learned Oh, okay, I need to start sharing more from my heart and being more vulnerable and being more authentic. Because then I’m going to be more relatable. And by sharing those things with my wife, and also with my boys. Now, I mean, I I don’t tell my boys Hey, just tough up, you know, don’t cry. No, man, if it hurts, go ahead, cry, get that emotion out process that emotion, and it makes you more human and makes you more relatable. And guess what, that emotion doesn’t get stuck in you energetically and cause you problems later on down the road. So it’s all connected

Justin Trosclair 56:19
50% of marriages, when you have a whether it’s a special needs kid or you know, cancer, all that kind of stuff. They end in divorce. Yes. So neither brings you together. Our drives you away.

Unknown 56:30
Yep. Yeah. And that was that was a statistic that scared me. And I’d say I said no, I love my wife, I want to stay with my wife. So I’ve got to figure this out. And so yeah, there’s there’s a key thing right there. If you want to be in a relationship, then you have to make that relationship a priority. And so yeah, okay, I’m a business owner. Yeah, I gotta focus on my business. But I’m also a husband, I’m also a father. If I want to make those relationships a priority, I better figure my crap out and figure out how I can work on those relationships as well. And so it does become a bit of a juggling act. But when you can find resources to help you do that, you take advantage of them. And one of the resources I had was my mental health practitioner. And another one was actually going through training with a woman by the name of Joanna Shakti, out of Boulder, Colorado, and she’s a relationship coach. And she teaches people how to have relationships with themselves. And better those relationships so that they can then begin to have relationships, better relationships with others. And so that was huge working on me, and my own garbage and my self limiting beliefs. And once I started working on those all the sudden, Wow, my other relationships started to improve. So So doing that inner work on yourself, is key. I that’s my opinion. Anyway,

Justin Trosclair 58:07
a second that I’ve done my own counseling from my own stuff was really helpful. I’ve got plenty of mental health people on the podcast episodes in the 40s. There’s a slew of them, five or six, seven around that area, for sure and earlier as well. But it’s huge appreciate your honesty and your openness to share. Seems like mental health is something that people try to hide. They don’t want to talk about it. And we can see in the news recently, it seems a lot of people are committing suicide. We like what is wrong with you guys. Don’t have everything that you’re supposed to want in life. If you just look at the media. Yeah, and they’re suicidal. So that’s anyway, mental health is important. Thank you for being honest about that. You bet. On a lighter note, at the end, the episode, any type of favorite books, podcasts, phone apps that you think we should all check out and become more familiar with?

Unknown 58:57
You bet. Well, of course, I have to share your podcast with my people. You’ve got a great show. Another one that I listened to and that I love. I’ve also been a guest on it is the money loud with way home way runs the six figure Academy and he helps people alleviate their bad money stories and money anxiety, which you know, I mean, when when you’re a solo printer. That’s huge. Yeah, that’s huge up. So I love listening to a show and he’s an absolutely dynamic, individual, intimate relations with Alana Pratt is also another good podcast to listen to. And that’s one of those shows that helps you develop and learn more about having relationship with yourself, as well as others books. The book that really kind of sparked off my entrepreneurial epiphany was the millionaire mindset by tr Becker.

Unknown 1:00:06
Also, the Millionaire Messenger by Brendan Bouchard.

Unknown 1:00:12
Also a fantastic book, because it inspires you to really hone what you’re doing, what your mission is, and how you can share that with others around you.

Justin Trosclair 1:00:26
I like I like the passion that you have, because you’re talking about that first half of the interview, you’re like, this is why I’m doing it. But in reality, also your business owner, and there’s been some things that you’ve had to work on for your own financial mindset so that you can be prosperous, not just help people, but also help yourself a little bit too. Oh, yeah. Well, I don’t give it away.

Unknown 1:00:44
That’s the thing is, if you can’t take care of yourself, how can you take care of other people? Yeah. And that was something that I, I had to work on. Because, you know, I mean, as healthcare practitioners, we want to give, we want to help. But we also have to receive again, traditional Chinese medicine, there has to be a balanced, Yin and Yang. If you’re constantly giving, giving, giving and giving, then you’re going to burn out man, either mentally, financially,

Justin Trosclair 1:01:15
you’re actually my avatar that’s funny, like, at the end of the episode was like, oh, someone like yourself as who should be listening to this show? Whether with the you now, are you five years ago? Yeah. That’s the kind of people I’m looking to reach. So this is really full circle.

Unknown 1:01:29
Kind of cool. That’s fantastic. Yeah. So yeah, as a doctor, you’ve got to take care of yourself. If you want to help other people, yeah, you’ve got to find ways to take care of yourself mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, financially, so that you can also enjoy your life. And when you’re enjoying life, then it makes it so much easier to be able to help others. And money is just an amplifier. So you know, if if you enjoy helping people, then the more money you can bring in, the more you’re able to help. And it just it, it builds on itself. So that’s why I started getting into that was because it was like, Okay, I got it, I got to figure out how I can take care of me so that I can start taking care of other people.

Justin Trosclair 1:02:16
Yep. Not gonna help too many people with two doors closed. Yep. Very Fox,

Unknown 1:02:20
what was your website? Again, artesian spring. Oh, em. All right.

Justin Trosclair 1:02:25
Thank you so much for being on the show.

Unknown 1:02:27
Justin, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity, I really appreciate it.

Justin Trosclair 1:02:34
I really want to take a second and say thank you so much for listening to the show. If you haven’t left a review on your favorite listening app, please go ahead and do that. One thing I’ve realized, I’m putting out a lot of links all over Instagram, Facebook, this podcast itself. And if you ever change the link are shut the website down. All those links are now gone and dead. So I just want you to know, if you’re listening to some of these episodes, and I mentioned a link and it’s going just head on over to a doctor’s perspective. net, you’re probably going to find that thing you’re looking for on the top menu, search around and I’m sure you’ll find it all the books that you find their acupuncture broken, no needles, the free chapters, you can download the 360 degree health from exercises stretches financial health, what is Chiropractic and the free chapters for their t shirts, resources. And we even have a financial support site now. It’s just a doctor’s perspective. NET slash support. There’s one time support, there’s monthly support, go ahead over there and check it out. Something that I’m offering right now, with the needless acupuncture. If you buy the book, you also get the electric acupuncture pin for free as a bonus. And that electric acupuncture pin helps you not only stimulate the points stronger, that helps you to locate the points as well. So that’s a huge plus. And then with the today’s choices tomorrow’s health book, I’m offering a bonus of a one hour one on one coaching session to go along with the purchase of that book. Actually, there’s three different bonus packages if you had to a doctor’s perspective net slash no needles as getting close to the end of the year. Are y’all ready for the 2018 Top 10 I mean it is too early right now but it’s going to be here before you know it that will be available for download later on just like the 2017 is now you just heard a great guest implement one thing make your practice and personal life as best as it can be.

We just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen and integrate with some of these guests have said by all means please share across your social media. write a review and go to the show notes page. You can find all the references for today’s guest. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai