Justin Trosclair 0:02
Episode Six, finding your passion of chiropractic to nurse. I’m your host, Dr. Justin trust Claire. And today, hearing Dr. Martin buyer’s perspective

for doctors who want a thriving practice and abundant home life, listen as your host, Dr. Justin shows Claire goes behind the curtain and interviews doctors and guess about real world triumph struggles, practical tips and entertainment On this episode, a doctor’s perspective.

Welcome to this week’s show, everybody. If you follow me on any of the social media, you know, we got back a couple weeks ago from Malaysia. So if you like travel pics, go on over there. And as always, stay tuned after the show for travel tips. All the show notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective. NET slash 06. If you happen to hear any rooster noises during the interview, I apologize. I live in a city. There’s roosters next door, there’s only so much I can do. But hey, It’s the Year of the Rooster. And I’ve got a china Asian fish in my logo for a reason. So I guess it goes together. Thanks for understanding. Today’s guest, Dr. Martin buyer, Doctor of Chiropractic Bachelor’s of Science in Nursing. He goes deep, real deep. And his background story about how he went from chiropractor being a nurse and going through his thought process. And I know there’s there’s a lot of doctors out there who have thought about doing something else. But for whatever reason going into more debt, the feeling like maybe maybe feel like a failure that he spent all this time and money get into agree and now you want to use it? or What will my friends and my colleagues think about it right? And then the other side is there’s not people that are thinking about doing it. So will be very helpful. So wherever you are, I think you’re going to get something out of this episode today. So let’s go hashtag behind the curtain. Welcome to the show. Dr. Martin, Bayer DC BS in our in our How you doing today?

Unknown 2:01
I’m doing great. Thank you for the introduction. I like that.

Justin Trosclair 2:04
Absolutely. Well, I don’t I don’t give the most robust introductions because that’s kind of the first question I want you to talk about yourself and what you feel like is worth sharing. So let’s jump in what what made you decide to be a chiropractor, and then eventually become an Aryan as well?

Unknown 2:23
Yeah, well, my journey with chiropractic was quite, it’s quite simple in the sense that I was, I was hurt in a car accident. And then I went through traditional, you know, went through surgery went through physical therapy, and I still felt like I had somewhere to go. And so I just was lucky enough to have a friend whose father was a chiropractor. And so he, he took me in, he started adjusted my neck and I started getting more range of motion in a damaged arm that I had, and it kind of just, you know, it blew my mind the little bit and so I started, you know, looking into it, and the doctor who I was seeing this was back in Canada told me

Unknown 3:08
what school to go to where he knew someone and so I, I got my pre racks done, and I applied to Texas chiropractic college there so

Justin Trosclair 3:19
and that’s, that’s a Houston right?

Unknown 3:20
Yeah, that was a Pasadena technically. Right. So your Canadian Canadian well, British British by birth Canadian by immigration, and then you a US citizen by immigration following that. So

Justin Trosclair 3:33
Paul, we just got them all on this.

Unknown 3:35
Yeah, covering it. Covering.

Justin Trosclair 3:39
Fantastic. So did you have a your own practice? What was your journey with chiropractic?

Unknown 3:44
Well, I was like, just based on my, my situation was when I graduated from chiropractic college. There I was, I was an international student at the time. So I wasn’t an American citizen. I had a green card, but I wasn’t by any means guaranteed permanent residency, or whatever the case may be. So I had a, you know, the same amount of debt that most of us have leaving a chiropractic institution, the only difference is that my my loans were largely private and unsecured. So made securing money for your own practice or my own practice difficult. So I started out just as working as a chiropractic associate, in a high volume practice in Leavenworth, Kansas, for those who who know, the Midwest, they’re just about, known for prisons more than anything, I think, but, uh, about an hour outside of Kansas City. And I worked for a gentleman there for

Unknown 4:51
I don’t know, always seemed longer than it is, I guess, but at least a couple years there, you know, somewhere between two and four years. And I always so had a little practice in a town in Topeka, Kansas, where I had I rented space, and try to have another, a second, a second business going there. And that went on, I probably worked in as an associate and an independent business owner combination for probably about a year and a half, two years before I moved out to where I am now in Arizona.

Justin Trosclair 5:27
How was that? Was it difficult to have both the GC success in one versus the other?

Unknown 5:32
Yeah, it was a it was a failed attempt, largely based on just resources being spread too thin? And how can you be fully invested in your own practice when you’re still working primarily for for someone else, but for me, the situation was more of a chance just to break out and say, Hey, I know I can’t, I can’t get the finances secured, or get them secured and still eat food and have, you know, lights and running water. So there was a it was an attempt by me to kind of break the mold. And, and just just try make it make an attempt to push out on my own and get some independence there.

Justin Trosclair 6:16
Right. Right. But then you ended up going to Arizona?

Unknown 6:21
Yep, yep. So So a couple things in that practice I was in there I was in there with, it was a practice I was in in Topeka. Whereas renting space, I was in there, I rented rented the space, from a very generous chiropractor there who pretty much just said, hey, look, I’m going to be retiring in a few years, you just give me a cut of what you make. And we’ll call it good, we’ll call it good. So I wasn’t in a situation where I was going to pay thousands of dollars for for rent, and then and not have anything back there. But in that same practice, there was another spot rented out to another young chiropractor who graduated from Cleveland, chiropractic college in Kansas City, about the same time. And she had already begun to transition to the medical world where she was going to her get her doctorate in become a do, essentially, they’re at one of the one of the one of the Kansas City schools. And so she was very keen on that and wanting to encourage me to do the same as her only. Again, you start looking at finances and didn’t make much sense to me, you know, you’ve got your riddled with student loan debt from one was

Justin Trosclair 7:38
double your student loan. And

Unknown 7:39
yeah, and no thanks. You know, so. So what happened to me in Kansas is I was sitting in an office on a January morning and freezing rain was banging off the windows. And I didn’t see my life’s great adventure ending in Kansas. And so I just sat down one morning, and I have applied for jobs from Fairbanks, Alaska, just down to Corpus Christi, Texas. And just to see what would happen, but a, an office in Mesa, Arizona,

Unknown 8:12
like my resume, called me up, I was down there interviewing in a few weeks, and I was probably February, I interviewed February 2008, I interviewed and then june of 2008, I moved out to Arizona to start in a practice where the primary idea was that I would work with a gentleman who’s in his

Unknown 8:36
I think he’s in his 60s at the time, and then I would a transition them out, you know, essentially and assume a practice that way a pack of practice was an active cash flow, a practice with

Unknown 8:52
established patients 2030 year history, and that was, that was going to be a really good thing for me, and then where my, where my life was headed. And then

Unknown 9:06
September of 2008, a lot of a lot of things changed across the United States of America there, you know, they’ll had a little bit of a downturn in the economy, the stock market dumped, you know, all that stuff. So, there I was, with, in a new practice with a doctor whose projections were based on a booming economy and a booming housing market and a booming, you know, vibrant growth based, you know, city, and the whole place almost like stopped dead in its tracks about that time, you know, and then, yeah, so I suddenly dropped. Yeah, you know, people, people’s million dollar homes became $180,000 homes overnight. Now, these are these wild things. And so they struggled, we struggled through that. And of course, you know, the numbers didn’t come because the projections were now not what the projections were. And then somewhere around

Unknown 10:10
probably the end of 2009, December of 2009, we got a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield, and they said, Hey, looks like, you know, we’re going to pull out the Chiropractic and we’re not gonna have any, any, we’re not gonna we’re not going to accept claims, or there’s a chance we’re not going to or there’s not not going to be we’re not gonna have any any in network chiropractors or anything anymore. Wow. And, and so yeah, so this letter, so I could tell that, you know, the work situation itself wasn’t, I could, I could see that the poor owner racking his brain trying to find a way to make it work. Yeah. And then I had, you know, one of those things where I was just standing on the cusp of spending all this money to buy a practice. And I think I was 3031 or 30, two years old at that time, and I just said, You know, I just felt like I had been going up hills, since I graduated in 2004. It’s now to sell Six years later, I was I really wasn’t sure of the traction I was getting, or the projections I could get. And so one morning, with the encouragement of my now wife just got up and just said, hey, let’s see, let’s see what else is out there. And that’s how the journey started.

Justin Trosclair 11:31
So when you were in the practice working with this guy, how was this the situation where you, were you going to build it, grow it? And then at that point, come up with a price? Or did you start with the price and it just like, yeah, went crazy after that, with the numbers all falling off, the Ria

Unknown 11:47
started off with just I was really into place where I was just, I think, still young enough, I just wanted to do start having adventure, go to someplace new and do it. And so I kind of, I gave them a price of what I could work for, and, you know, kinda like a bare minimum, just make things make things were get by pay my loans comfortably, pay rent, have a car payment, that kind of thing. Right. And then

Unknown 12:15
it was a high end practice. And so there was never really a number, number discuss, but I knew the number was going to be substantial, but based on based on everything that was happening, I didn’t, I wasn’t really worried about it, just because I didn’t foresee the economic collapse that came after that there. But the idea well, the idea was that I would, you know, help build it, transition, learn the business, learn what works in that part of the world, and then head down, you know, you know, he transitioned out I transition in and then we maintain those numbers by him, you know, kind of helped me with the hiring process, and bringing in a, you know, another like an associate. So essentially, I would, I would graduate to, to Office boss, and then I would bring in an associate, like I was to help help maintain the numbers like I was doing for him. Yeah.

Justin Trosclair 13:09
Yeah, I was just thinking like, as a student, if a student or someone who’s in that same position with like, I’m tired of working for this guy. I want to start over Should I, you know, should I even consider so hindsight? 2020 Yeah. bearing the economic downturn? Is that is that a scenario that you think could work for people or just sort of stay away from that? What is your opinion?

Unknown 13:30
I’m split on it now you know, hindsight being what it is. It’s a lot of it I think the guy I was with, I still believe to this day was legitimate that he would, he would he would definitely do that. But also, you know, have heard the tale of many other associates who’ve been promised that little that chance and it never comes you know that the doctor is going to retire the doctor is going to sell the practice and move out of state the doctor is going to to do something and then you know, yeah, two years go by four years go by five years go by whatever the cases and their their situations the same as when they first walked into the you know, the doors of that practice and you know, as 40% difference in value compare Yeah, you think versus what he thinks Yeah. Yeah, we should have a third party. It’s crazy things are they are your numbers are going up and the practices vibrant, but your your numbers are staying the same. And there’s no, there’s no money to help you, like improve your own financial situation. But there is there is room in the budget for a Lexus or an aviator, or a navigator, whatever the you know, affordable area or something, you know, something there’s always there’s always money for toys, but there’s never money for you as the associate I don’t think they’re so

Justin Trosclair 14:52
yeah, you almost have to walk into the contract. Knowing you know, ahead of time, what is the contract? What kind of raises can we expect? Yeah, why’s that is what happens and everybody ends up getting upset about it? And yes, that’s no good. Now then, take us, he decided to do the Bachelor of Science in Nursing. Know,

Unknown 15:09
so is it a little little less direct than that, because it was I like I, I really enjoy, I really enjoyed being a chiropractor. It was it was a fun job. It was fun getting people better. So I wanted to stay in a health care. So I just sat down and made a list of things in healthcare I would be interested in doing. And so it started with, I thought about nursing, about the time early on in my chiropractic career, just because while I was in school, I had a couple classmates whose wives were both nurses down in the Greater Houston area. And they told me they, what they did their job responsibilities and what they were bringing home. Right. And this was like, early 2000. And according to the husbands that the, the, the wives are bringing in, like somewhere between 70 and 90,000 thousand dollars a year in, you know, early 2000s, Houston there, you know, so I just

Justin Trosclair 16:05
punch a clock,

Unknown 16:06
kind of Yeah, punch a clock, you swipe in, you swipe out their work three days a week, they work four days a week, you know, either way, they’re getting three days, three or four days off a week, even if they’re picking up an extra shift. And I was like, you know, that doesn’t sound that doesn’t sound that bad. So nursing was on their head physical therapy on the list. And I had pharmacy on the list just based on my pre med prerequisites from undergrad I had organic chemistry I had, yeah, you know, what am I qualified educationally? Like, what could I walk into, and get into a program? And so there was a PT school just five miles down the road from me. And so I, I just knocked on the door to see what was going on there. And they wanted to they said, Well, you know, it’s a full time program. And I get and I said, I get that and they say it’s going to be roughly you know, $150,000 Yeah. You know, okay, we’re all in cahoots.

Justin Trosclair 17:02
Yes, I think the every professional school they like, it’s just, that’s about 150 200, you know,

Unknown 17:07
hundred 5200. And so there was a pharmacy school on the other side of town, which would have been about, you know, in traffic anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half commute pretty consistent, full time school, and it was in it was it was button up against $200,000. And then I, down the road from me about an hour and in a very rural community was a school called central Arizona College. And they offered a nursing program at the junior college level. And they charge roughly $6,000 for the program. And it was, and it was a part time program at that. So I discussed it, I applied, I got accepted. I talked to my then employer in the chiropractic world who said, you know what the way the market is, I don’t need anybody full time. I’m just looking for a part time. Person anyway. So I was able to adjust my work schedule and my school schedule. And I was able to still work as a chiropractor and a part time basis while going to nursing school, you know, three to three days a week. Yeah. It was a really, it was a really great situation for me, it kept me kept me employed, it kept me making money for the base bills is you essentially go in and retrain, you know, from start start from the ground up because they like your credentials, but

Justin Trosclair 18:29
they also want their medicine.

Unknown 18:31
Yeah, yeah, we don’t we don’t know much about pharmacy, we don’t know much. There’s a learning curve in there. But as the education went on the chiropractic degree was phenomenal. And when you just talking face anatomy, and all the all the questions that could come up as far as what is a what is a physiological exam? What is a neurological exam? What is this? And you can I mean, you had you know, as a primary care provider essentially, coming in, you’re coming into a did a great, you straight days. Yeah, well, you know, as much as you can, I don’t work that hard.

Justin Trosclair 19:12
All right, all right. Now, are you enjoying it, are you, your employee now as an RN,

Unknown 19:18
yet, so I’m employed as an RN, and I work in the operating room of all places, okay. And it was quite a, it was a, it was an easy transition. For me, I left school, I applied for a bunch of jobs, but you’re not worth anything, because you it’s kind of an interest you kind of reliving your early stages, again, where you’re knocking on the door begging for people to give you a chance. Right, you know, again, and so I eventually got a job with a network with a cancer hospital. And so I took this job and I fully expected I would be on the chemotherapy floor, you know, with with infusion pumps and dosage gang or whatever, whatever the deal is with, with that just based based on the lay of the land, but I got pretty lucky, I got put into surgical oncology. And I watched these, I was putting a head and neck cancer clinic, and I was watching these doctors do these amazing free flaps, and they’re taking, you know, massive, you know, cancerous incisions off the face. And they’re taking a, you know, a flat from the leg, and they’re combining it, and they’re just doing all these amazing things. And so I wanted to know more. And as an environment with surgeons who were very open and very responsive to their immediate, I shouldn’t say staff, because we’re employed by the hospital, not the surgeons, but they were, they were engaged in us. And they right, they were engaged and, and they they kind of said hey, you know, if you’re interested, you should just be in there. So I got there’s a whole separate training program for that. So the company I was with, hired me into the, into the surgical program and gave me extensive training on what the needs of the operating room are and what you did, what the ins and outs and, and so that’s what I do now that’s the that’s the day to day now is go in punch the clock and then watch people, you know, have gallbladder removed, or, you know,

Justin Trosclair 21:24
do you do you ever had you ever have to have like,

a mental shift coming from chiropractic, no drugs, no surgery, rah rah rah to, I guess, is what I’m doing for a living? Now, was there ever a struggle within you to to rectify that, or? Well,

Unknown 21:39
I think, you know, for me personally, there still is like, if I was to, if I was to personally hurt my back, I wouldn’t my first start stop would not be you know, to go to the family doctor and try to get some, you know, whatever it is ibuprofen or, or pain killers, or anything that when I hurt my back, I go do the yoga studio, you know, that’s what I do. There you go, I go do something active for myself, I’ll go see a chiropractor, I’ll go, I’ll go do something that fits more my belief system, which chiropractic completely filled my belief system of what I felt health should be, you know, you know, give your body good nutrition, heal from the inside out. Do that. And so it is a very different world where you’re noticing that most of the people you either most people you work with, definitely a lot of your patients are just like, I want, I want medicine, medicine will make me better. Yeah, that’s, that’s what I want, you know, and it’s like, Who am I to? Who am I to argue with a belief system is kind of where I ended up falling into, you know, just because my dad never took me to the doctor when I was sick. And you know, Johnny down the streets, mom hasn’t taken like three courses of antibiotics, every flu and cold season there. who’s wrong? Who’s ready, right? I don’t know. So I just kind of, I just kind of live in limbo there. So

Justin Trosclair 23:05
it does seem like the chiropractor, some of the chiropractors are like, super straight, don’t vaccinate, don’t do all these things. And I mean, when you’re talking about that, it’s there. Here’s the paradigm, and you’re just bashing it. And people are kind of I would say, what’s a good word for it

Unknown 23:21
propelled repel, or, you know,

Justin Trosclair 23:23
away from away from it. But if you can accept where they are, I think that’s a good thing for our profession to just accept that people want to take these things, educate them, but they don’t force it down their throat, because you just going to push them away. And I said, Yeah,

Unknown 23:37
you become you can become get to polarize and you’re going to run them off. And it’s not really about, I think the hard thing with a lot of things, and I tried to time is just kind of check your ego at the door there. You know, it’s like, it’s not about you. And it’s not about you and your needs and your wants or even your wants for the patient or your wants for the community. It’s about giving the patient what what they want, and what you can ethically provide for them there.

Justin Trosclair 24:05
Yeah. So switching gears just a little here. Yep. We kind of mentioned the college kids already with the system that you already have, would you recommend? Or I guess, what would you recommend? But is it an idea for someone to maybe become a nurse? And then that way, when they’re in their professional schooling, they could do that as a job? And then I guess, technically always had that fall back on? But do the reverse order that you did? Or what would you recommend to a college kid that’s trying to figure out what to do with their life?

Unknown 24:33
It’s a hard question. Because I know if somebody would have asked me that same moment, I was going like, I knew I wanted to be a chiropractor. You know, I knew it, there was no doubt in my mind. 100% This is what I wanted to do. This is the first thing I’ve really been passionate about in my, in my adult life, I’m I’m doing and if somebody would have told me to pump the brakes, and that chase something down like that, I’m not sure how that would, would have gotten over for me. Right. But fiscally, as now an older human being that’s got a better grasp on finances, and what it means to be closing in on 40 and still be paying student loans back that you acquired when you were 20, or whatever the case may be. I mean, numbers, numbers don’t lie. You know, I got a, I got a nursing degree and a bachelor’s degree in nursing for roughly the cost of two trimesters in chiropractic school. Right? You know, and with that, with that, with that degree comes more than just the the paycheck and the clock and the clock out, it comes with pretty significantly incredible health insurance. And it comes with subsidize life insurance and disability insurance. And it comes with 403. b matches, and it comes with pensions, and it comes with all these things that you just like I mean, if I would have mean the company I work for now after five years, you’re vested in the pension and I don’t know even know who does that anymore. Definitely know chiropractic offices. I know why that pension, I don’t know. Exactly, they exist still, which is the really amazing thing is they’re, they’re still out there. So from a fiscal standpoint, you if you just say, Hey, you know, you can go get a nursing degree, not spend a terrible amount of money in the great scheme of things. And then when you go into chiropractic school, not only do you have this background in Nursing and Health Care and caring, but you also have a very viable job to keep you you know, employed while going through that. But I think more of the, the nursing reality is that you graduate and and for in the chiropractic world, I always feel like we’re all the people. You know, I live in a city of 4 million people, where are they? Why are they coming in here? And then as a nurse, you go, oh, they’re in the hospital? That’s where they are, you know, that’s where they all are. That’s where that’s what that’s where they’ve been spending all their time.

Justin Trosclair 27:09
I’m getting 20 maybe 30 a month? Wow.

Unknown 27:11
Yeah. Yeah, look out of you. And they’re getting I mean, there’s, there’s a, there’s a never ending wave of people going through those doors every way for everything from a runny nose to you know, a broken bone or, or whatever the case may be. And it’s just, it’s just the health paradigm is just incredible. Because it’s just again, it’s it’s your belief system, it’s like my back’s or, okay, I need to what am I doing this making my backs? or What can I do to strengthen my back? Yeah, to make it better? Or it’s my backs? Or where’s my pills? You know, where’s my where’s my ibuprofen? Where’s my heat pack? Where’s my, where’s my whatever. And, and, you know, the reality of the situation is right or wrong, and I don’t think there honestly is one is that, we want that satisfaction, we want that quick fix. And even if you just, you know, it’s a hard sell, when you say My back hurts now, and I want it better now. And I can do that with medication or an injection or right, whatever the case may be, or you go to somewhere and say, Well, I can, I can make you better in a month. But you gotta come spend an hour with me three to four times a week for that month. And you know, and people start, you know, people don’t have that kind of time, I don’t think at least in, in the in the America I live in.

Justin Trosclair 28:37
Right? It seems we need to have like a rich, charitable man or woman to just start advertising like crazy on TV. You know, we all know what the little blue pill is. But we don’t have, we don’t have something that’s easily patented. And someone can just make a ton of money off of so it’s hard to find a way to advertise nationwide, like they do have that kind of money to keep advertising so that people understand you could do this are you could go this route, it’s going to take longer, but you might find that you have better results long term long term actually taking care of the issue.

Unknown 29:12
Yeah, and selling that, you know, and yeah, you know, so that was one part of it. The other part, I would really love to go back and tell like a young me or a young anybody going into the chiropractic world is one of the the shifts I found rather quickly where I was a graduate in 2004, 2005

Unknown 29:34
started practicing, you’re surrounded by chiropractors who probably graduated from school in the 1980s they got out of school, maybe with maybe with 100 bucks in their pocket for all I know, but they never had like the debt that the that the today today student has. And they lived in the 80s when insurance companies were paying a lot of money for procedures and things like that tire practice, whatever the case was, and they made a lot of money in their early years and now they their overhead is nothing their practices paid for. And you’re in competition with a doctor who’s charging $26 an adjustment or $15 this guy down the street, 10 $10

Unknown 30:20
an adjustment and I’ve got a charge 70 just to break even you know to pay to pay my bills and that that was the the economics of healthcare and the really hard that’s a really hard part I’d like to talk to people but I can also tell you there’s someone told that to me that’s not me as somebody else You know, that’s that’s the weird guy it’s it’s you know, it’s good. We’re good at sits in the corner the class there, you know, not me, it’s like

Justin Trosclair 30:47
when your friend tells you Hey, you probably shouldn’t marry this girl like, Yeah, come on, come on that bad. And then you like divorced for years later? Yeah,

Unknown 30:53
man, I shouldn’t listen. Yeah, yeah. You don’t know or like I know, or, you know, that kind of thing there.

Justin Trosclair 30:58
Do you have any desires to go on to be like a nurse practitioner? Or does that put you back into the entrepreneurial level that you may or may not want to be a part of

Unknown 31:07
know, the nurse practitioner is an interesting thing.

Unknown 31:13
For me, personally, I kind of feel like I’ve paid my dues with schooling, you know, I’m kind of going the path of least resistance. I’ve, I’ve got a career I like I’ve got two health degrees I like and the fact of the matter is, selfishly, after you’ve been self employed, or you know, working without the safety net of a big corporation, when you get to the point where you can walk in, hit the time clock work all day, work hard, hit the time clock, go home, and not have to think about work. When you’re not there, you know, you’re not getting I don’t get calls from patients in the middle of the night. You know, I don’t get calls from patients on the weekend. I don’t get emergency calls. I don’t do anything when my when my day may be long. My bait my day may be hard. But every even the worst shift comes to an end. And when you clock out, that’s that’s it. There’s no going home and there’s no worrying about what’s what’s tomorrow. What’s you know, where’s, you know, if someone going to kick in the front door, my practice tonight to steal the TV in the waiting room is right is like is that? Is my staff going to show up tomorrow? Or are they not going to show up? Or is

Justin Trosclair 32:26
Saturday screen at the health fair?

Unknown 32:28
Yeah, one more exactly. Things like that, you know, one, just one more, one more event where you sit. And he’s hope to get talked to, you know, 10 people over the course of four hours to try to get just turn that in and you don’t and you don’t, you don’t have to generate. You don’t have to do all you all you all you have to do is show up on time and smile and you’re going to be you’re going to be just fine there. You know.

Justin Trosclair 32:52
And what’s what’s interesting is I don’t think you’re alone in that, you know, some people might be listening to this and say, Okay, well as a car park sounds like maybe maybe he’s not a go getter. It’s like, well, not everybody is a go getter. Yeah, some people just need, you know, a job. And I’m not saying this as a bad thing, because that’s what I’m doing right now. I’m just punching the clock. But it was a carburetor yesterday, kind of your choices, you can be an associate, you can have your own clinic, or that’s about that’s your options. Yeah. And this until we can, I guess until the hospitals see that we are valuable, and that we provide a service that researches I mean, it’s blatantly clear that we help. But for whatever reason, it’s there’s a struggle with to get us into the hospitals to where we can have that type of more job security, and without all these extra stresses. So yeah, it’s definitely an uphill battle. Do you? Do you see that bridge gabbing at anytime soon? Or is that how do you any ideas on that thought?

Unknown 33:50
My, my bias is what would I do selfishly, or I shouldn’t try that selfishly. But realistically, I, I keep my license active. Yeah, I’m still I’m still licensed. Because just in case something like that happens, you could actually

Justin Trosclair 34:06
have a part time practice still.

Unknown 34:08
Yeah. Three days a week? Yeah, well, I work more, you know, I, and that’s the thing. It’s like, that’s the whole thing with like, the go getter, you know, it’s like, you know, I worked, you know, 4050 hour weeks, as a chiropractor, self employed, and I work, you know, I work 4050 hour weeks is an employed person, and it’s,

Justin Trosclair 34:27
and double time, and double

Unknown 34:29
that will seriously Yeah. You know,

Unknown 34:31
if you’re on call, and that phone rings, you get paid twice as much for doing the same job on a Saturday night, you know, are they bad case? Because maybe

Unknown 34:43
I had my fingers.

Unknown 34:47
But that was, but that’s like the real, the cynical part of it. And I think you could do you like I’ve got some of that lateral violence from other chiropractors about how, you know, they’re going to stick with like, whatever the right way, the hard job, it’s not selling out and working for the corporate giant and feeding into a system you nose broken or whatever. Yeah, I’ve got I’ve got plenty of that. But the other side of it, is I’ve got plenty of phone calls, saying how did you do it? You know, whether you’re making, you know, this is, you know, this is a quality of life issue at some point to when that practices, consuming your starts with your day, then it slips into your evenings, and it crosses over into your weekends. And then what about vacation? I mean, I haven’t had a vacation in a long time before I took the nursing job there, you know. And so that was a big thing to let’s

Justin Trosclair 35:37
tap into that conversation, because that is a question I asked everybody. So what kind of content? You’re in Kansas, in Arizona, you know, kind of vacations, where are you taking? What could you have done differently? And now, assuming as a hospital, you get three to five weeks off per year?

Unknown 35:52
Yeah. or more depending on how you stagger it there. You know, so it’s like you could have someone else in Kansas. I think how it was structured was the first year I was with the practice you got, you got nothing, I think for vacation, if I remember correctly, you got you got zeros, you got 00 days off. And then after the after you’ve been there a year they gave you a week, after two years, two weeks, three years, three weeks, four years, four weeks maxing out at four weeks of vacation a year there, which I think I made it to three weeks before I left, but then it’s nice to have that vacation time. But what about actually getting time approved? For being able to book vacations in advance? Or? I’ve heard that’s an issue to

Justin Trosclair 36:40
I don’t know, no, you can’t actually take those vacations. Yes,

Unknown 36:43
it’s there. But it’s not for you. It’s it’s the say I gave them to you or whatever the case may be. And then when I left Kansas to come to Arizona, I started working in June. And I took two days off in the like November around Thanksgiving time of November 2008 to go to my sister’s wedding. And then after that, I got like five working days off a year is what I got. I got a week, I got a week off. For the next two years. I was there as a full time employee three day weekends. They did a half day on Friday. So you know, but But yeah, it built in. And those half when you know, you know how it is, it’s like, you got a half day see plan. Okay, that’s great. Let’s do something that, you know, I’m going to plan something at one o’clock on Friday afternoon, because the office closes at noon, and then you walk out at four o’clock in the afternoon, you know? Or would you know that that kind of someone shows up late, someone doesn’t understand the office hours at that time of day, whatever the case may be your private practice. He can’t say no, no. I mean, at least I could say no. Yeah, you know, falls on you because you’re the associate. So then you’re in the situation again, where you’re an associate, you’re making it Okay, living, you’ve got friends and classmates all around you struggling, you got classmates failing, you’ve got you’ve got all this stuff. And so at some point, you just have to say, well, do I need a vacation or what’s what’s most important right now. And that’s kind of where I was, that was my goal setting I’m going to work hard at this job I’m going to buy this practice

Justin Trosclair 38:24
is that maybe

Unknown 38:24
yes, my baby, I’m going to hire someone and then I’ll get to go on the the two week vacation like the big like the bosses now or whatever. And that’s kind of building it up. But then as that went, it kind of sounds like a mean thing to do to somebody, you know, is like, I’m going to put myself in the situation. And make myself that myself, go on vacations and leave, leave someone with a bunch of work to do not give them any time off. And then try to feel good about doing to someone would I disliked so much when I was trying to come up? Come up the rest. It goes yeah. And so you either destroy the mold, which I wasn’t in a place to do, I’d love to go and be a huge success and bring other young people on and be like, Hey, this is how this is how it’s done. This is how it can be let’s let’s do it. But

Justin Trosclair 39:15
the ones that typically make the podcast episodes of Yeah,

Unknown 39:17
yeah.

Justin Trosclair 39:19
That’s talk to this guy whose turn to practice from 100,000 to a million and

Unknown 39:23
yes, that’s awesome. It’s amazing. Tell me more about why can’t you do it? Well, you know, it’s funny. It’s here’s a good talking point. I guess, since you bring that up. I was where I, where I started, my decline of my love for chiropractic was I went to this. I don’t remember the name of the company anymore. But the practice? Yeah, that’s right. Good thing for this podcast. I won’t even attempt to say it. But it was like, it was a flyer and they said, Come see us will tell you how to grow your practice and try to. And so I went to this thing, we listened to him talk. And then at some point, have a new people who hadn’t been there before got ushered into a room and it’s just, it was a guy standing up from, you know, there’s a bunch of plants in the audience. And he’d asked all these questions some of their hand, and you come up with this lightning fast answer. You know, it’s like, how much space you need 1300 square feet, you know, and how much this you need this and how much it and it’s like, you know, how can you answer questions, you know, even listening to the people aren’t even finishing their answer. And you’re, and you’re shouting others? Yeah. You know, so like, what’s, what’s going on here? How do you how do you how do you know what’s coming your way? It’s almost like you put people in the audience to ask the, so I got really cynical. And then what they had something in there about how to how to double your practice, you know, value or double your practice. size? Or it’s like, Okay, well, this is this be interesting to hear about. And the and the solution was treat people twice as much

Unknown 40:57
want law?

Unknown 40:58
That’s like, know, you know, so all these great ideas I was gonna walk into and go back and start implementing on Monday or, or, or join a group and sign up with or whatever it was, I was like,

Justin Trosclair 41:12
well, a five star platinum rated script that you just need to follow through the tea. Yeah,

Unknown 41:15
that’s right. And that’s what it felt like to me. And I was like, and and so so my cynicism started going to is there. Is there more money in chiropractic by being a chiropractor? Or is there more your to become a chiropractor, and then sell a system to chiropractors and hope they buy into it and pay you that fee every month to to feed you and you just get to go around the country doing cool things, staying in nice hotels and resorts and then telling people what they should do to be a big success like you, but there’s no way you’re doing anything. But the but the circuit there, you know, and so, I mean, how many cultures haven’t been practice for like 20 years? Exactly. Exactly, though.

Justin Trosclair 41:59
Okay. Anything else on that?

Unknown 42:01
No. I think I covered i think i think i think that covers it unless we double back to it. I don’t know. So

Justin Trosclair 42:06
we’ll see how it plays out. Yeah. So I’m going to ask one last question on this track. And then we’re going to switch gears to the more personal and then the fun questions for the end. Okay. Okay. What does that What does Dr. Martin have as far as own five years or 10 year goals? And how do you know if they’re worthy of your pursuit?

Unknown 42:22
Okay.

Unknown 42:24
My five year and 10 year goals are actually pretty darn bland. You know, I like I think, you know, I turned, I turned 40 this year. And what I really want to know what it feels like is what it feels like to work and get paid and have that money you earned be yours. Yeah, I want what does it feel like to have that drop into your, your bank account and be all your money there? You know, so, I, I work a lot because I’m, my five year plan involves like, massive debt acceleration there, you know, it involves

Unknown 43:05
no car payments, which I don’t have, but it involves no house payment, it involves no credit card payments and involves nothing other than the only payment I want to make is right into my 401k You know, that’s what that’s the payment I want to make every month old. So, yeah, I like that. Okay, and get ready for get ready for whatever happens at 55 or get ready for you know, I don’t know what it feels like to work and actually have that money be yours because most of mine spoken for by the time you know, you dropped from the bank account the tax man takes so much the student loan company takes so much the bank for the mortgage take so much and it’s like your work and work and work and but what do you what do you show and for their you know, so that’s one of those things I’d like to see in the next five years for sure. And this

Justin Trosclair 43:54
in if any students are listening to this podcast right now, your student loan payments, depending on your interest rate and all that could easily be 700, 1400

dollars a month,

Unknown 44:04
my student loan put my mortgage is 1100 dollars a month, my student loan payment is 1300 dollars a month there.

Justin Trosclair 44:11
That’s a true statement. Right. That’s,

Unknown 44:13
that’s, that’s that’s food for thought. You know, that’s

Justin Trosclair 44:18
besides working besides putting money away for retirement and paying off debt, what occupies your mind, kids, volunteering, hobbies, you know, around that line of thought,

Unknown 44:31
animals? My I got, I got a couple a couple dogs and you know, I like animals. That’s that’s my thing there. I like, I like my vacations. I like I like going to the same places. You know, I like go into the cabin in the woods. You know, I like going I like hiking around that cabin. I like I like sitting out on the porch and watching the sunset. I like stupid stuff like that there. You know, that’s my that’s my thing. I don’t live like a rock and roll lifestyle on that.

Unknown 45:03
Oh, there’s a beautiful spot. If you ever in Arizona, Greer gr ee R. Greer, Arizona. It’s out towards a New Mexico border, Northern Northern Arizona towards a New Mexico border. And it is just about one of the nicest places on the face of the earth. I bet they’re just to get away.

Justin Trosclair 45:23
How do you get a homework balance? What’s it? What’s a good strategy to achieve that if you’re if you’re struggling?

Unknown 45:28
Yeah. So I think that the strategy would be have to make time for it. You know, it’s easy, I think the strategy is, the idea is you work hard, and you come home and you and you play harder, you do something, I think the reality for most of us young professionals is you work hard, you have your work life, you come home and something something horrible happens on that drive home, I always think they’re you know, that 20 minutes or hour, whatever it is to get home. And then I think the real key is to get home and not sit on the couch i think is probably the real, the real key to home life balance because a work life balance because that’s the problem I sink into all the time is you work all day, especially in the healthcare field, you’re giving all day it’s it’s it’s it’s a it’s a give, give, give, give, give, give, give and then you get home and you just I don’t know how much is left for you? Or how much is left for the family? Or how much is that so you have a tactic to help with that. I’m not an effective one that I found yet there. You know, I am unfortunately one of those types to that. I’ll let work take over all that work creep into my my own time, I’ll let I’ll let work sinking in the middle of a TV show or middle of a movie or something like that. I’ll, I’ll get that. But I think that’s just part of the process. And I’m sure by the time I’m good at it will be time for me to retire Anyway, there the time by I set up those walls and I I like to say, you know, you clock in, clock out and you don’t worry about it. But that’s not how healthcare works. I don’t think anywhere there, it’s always, it’s always sitting there. And to say it’s just healthcare is probably egocentric as well there. But I think it’s just work in general, if you care about your job, if you if you want to do a good job, it’s incredibly difficult to just to turn it off completely and clear your head. So I think for me, I know the one thing I think I need to do personally, one thing more people know is like little mini vacations. Not even like staycation. But just change, change the scenery, do something different, just just distract your mind as much as you can just so you can actually get some some time away.

Justin Trosclair 47:52
Right? Okay. Now you said you’re married. So what type of things can you do to keep the love alive and stay connected with your spouse

Unknown 48:01
work less now I don’t know.

Unknown 48:04
I’ve always been a big one for the, for the little thing. So it’s just, it’s it, I think it’s easy to get caught up in, in a work relationships where you’re spending 810 hours a day with people who aren’t, who aren’t your family and you have fun you do. You do whatever. And then when you go home you got you’re exhausted, you’re tired and your family definitely doesn’t always get the best of you there. You know, I think if the if you can, if you can somehow curb that. And just save a little something for one year, when you get home. And I like the little things I like doing things together. I like my wife and I walk our dogs together we we go to yoga together we go to the gym together we try to do as much as in our in our time together, we just try to do as much together as as possible. And that’s it. I think that’s the challenge is you get into a workplace by time you factor in gatherings and happy hours and office parties and people wanting to go out for for a cocktail after a stressful day or whatever the case may be. There’s all these detractors from your relationship, which shouldn’t be the focus should always be well, I shouldn’t say always, but the focus should primarily be home. And then with a little bit of a with fun sprinkled around it or I think with the stress of the job with Pete you want to be around people who kind of understand the stress of the job understand the day. And I think it’s it’s easy to get distracted and pulled away from the people you work so hard for to spend time with people you’ve already spent the whole day with anyways, there. And so I think that’s probably the

Unknown 49:53
I just I just say that the little things. There’s some, you know,

Justin Trosclair 49:57
I noticed when I was in Colorado, I’d hear about young professionals and going out after work and getting a drink. And I’m like, man, when I get off work. I’m just struggling to find people, you know, yeah, I’m all for later than they are. I was like, I don’t live downtown Denver. So it’s like, by the time I get there, everybody’s gone. So it’s like, I don’t even know what this is. So yeah, I felt like I was missing. Am I missing? Or am I missing something? I don’t know.

Unknown 50:21
Yeah, it’s like, well, you know, you get up at six happy hour ended two hours ago, man, you know, they’ve been out since they pack that they arrived at three and they’ve rolled up at 430. And that was it. You know, that was? It’s all it’s all over? So that’s, that’s it’s a hard thing. I don’t think I missed too much. I don’t think so either. I don’t I think it’s hugely overrated there. So.

Justin Trosclair 50:45
So last couple questions. Do you have a morning or a lunch routine that, that ground you or excite you for the rest of your day to stay focused?

Unknown 50:53
It’s, it is extremely exciting, I get up, I feed my dogs. You know,

Unknown 51:02
that’s about you know, the dogs are so happy to see me all the time. You know, it’s like, hey, the food guys here. So they’re, they’re all just to see, yeah, they’re excited, man, they’re jumping around, they’re about to get fed, they’re happy, it makes me happy. But as far as the routine, I tried to save, like, the routines I like the most are the ones are though, on the weekends, where it’s like, wake up with with the spouse, go downstairs, have a cup of coffee talk, watch the news, complaining about how bad the world is. Go for a walk, go do whatever, you know, whatever the case may be there and then right and then those are the routines I like and that’s really the stuff that will energize me for for the work week because you know, my alarm goes off at 430 which is which is late compared to most people because I’m lucky I get to be born a male and I don’t have to look good ever, you know, and it’s acceptable to roll up into you know, especially working in the operating room. You can either they have to provide you with sterile scrubs so you don’t even have to dress nice go into work you know, they say dress for the job you want and I sometimes think maybe I want the job of like, I don’t know. I don’t even know what I look terrible go into where I look like a bomb. Yeah, I do I look like I look like a hopeless lost soul this in my in my shorts in my and my Calgary Flames hockey t shirt and just swipe

Justin Trosclair 52:36
right yeah,

Unknown 52:36
that’s right. No. sweat pants and scrubs aren’t that different? Really? At the end? yoga pants I’m guessing Oh, shorts. Yes. No.

Unknown 52:48
pick those from the wife does. This can stay at home it might make it might make people to ill there.

Justin Trosclair 52:56
I don’t want to see it.

I don’t

Unknown 52:59
believe me.

Justin Trosclair 53:01
Do you happen to have a favorite book blog podcast that you secretly love? And one that you would actually recommend to others?

Unknown 53:10
Oh, man. I don’t know what I what I am horribly guilty of for some reason is I don’t know why I do this. But I like going on YouTube and watching those Russian car crash compilations. Okay, I don’t know how to really more of a the really more of a thing. But there’s one thing I do I don’t know, every time I go on, I guess I’ve looked at and then after every time I go on YouTube, they want to they keep offering me new videos of car crashes. The top five

Justin Trosclair 53:37
crashes today.

Unknown 53:39
Yeah. So I like I get I get a guilty pleasure. It’s gotta be that because it’s always like number one on my feet. It’s like, hey, check these terrible driver. So I’m like, Okay, I guess I’m I guess

Justin Trosclair 53:53
when we were younger? Yeah. Saying I can’t believe this happened or something? Yeah, gosh.

Unknown 53:58
Oh, no, look at that, you know, so. But yeah, nothing. I found that I think the most the most sad thing about being in school as long as I have is I had to read so much for for work that lost any joy and reading, reading books in general there, you know. And so every time I’ll get my professional magazines, and I’ll read

Unknown 54:22
whatever articles they ever have, whatever new research, they have, whatever new up and coming. But as far as actually relaxation, legitimate reading, you know, I don’t I can’t say I can’t see I’ve done any in the past year, probably. So that’s a shame. shameful. Hey,

Justin Trosclair 54:43
we’ll leave that for you to feel that way.

We know the right answer. Oh, yes. I read at least 12 bucks a year.

Unknown 54:52
All the time. The top five. Yes. I start every year with a Dickens Tale of Two Cities, which I did by and I have had sitting on my coffee table for roughly eight months now. So here we go.

Justin Trosclair 55:06
online, you get that?

Unknown 55:08
afternoon? Do they have a movie?

Justin Trosclair 55:12
That’s how I would like the Lord of the Rings. Like Yeah, I’ve read. I’ve read the movies. I mean,

Unknown 55:17
it’s like it’s like that’s how I am with Game of Thrones. It’s like I really like Game of Thrones. I should read the books. now. I’ll just watch the the I’ll just watch the series again. It’s not as good.

Justin Trosclair 55:26
Yeah.

Alright, last question. I assume you have a smartphone. Yes. Okay. Do you have a favorite app, whether it’s business or pleasure?

Unknown 55:36
I am guilty of Facebook I think is probably my most viewed app there. It looks like the the ones I use the most or I like my I really love my Google Play Music. I really, I really, really love that. And I use that a whole bunch. Probably. I think it in my car. My drive to work. I use it at work. I use it at night to unwind. That’s probably my my favorite one. But just for mind numbing stories and jokes and watching my friends kids grow up from far away you know, is like I think I’m pretty guilty of looking at Facebook a little too much there. I’m sure there. So what’s your favorite genre of music? You know, I used to

Unknown 56:24
I used to think it was country or something like that. But I got I love my 80s hair bands. You know, I like I like Yeah, I love hair bands I love I like things like I grew up with I like Cat Stevens. I like the 70s kind of classic rock kind of and then our folk rock, probably more folky type music there. And then I also I like hair bands within every so often. I mean, john Denver was like Pitch Perfect there, you know, you listen to that guy sing live, and you can’t really tell if it’s a live recording, or if he’s been in the studio, you know, having it in. And that stuff just doesn’t exist anymore. You know, not that I have a huge john Denver fan or anything, but if you just listen, it’s amazing, like the quality of, of singers that were produced at the you know, in the, you know, that that at that time, and the end the songs and the lyrics were I think I saw something where it was like, Freddie Mercury wrote and produced like a Bohemian Rhapsody all on his own. And then there was something about, you know, a Beyonce song with something like girls rule the world girls rue the world, something like, like maybe maybe four verses, and it had like six producers, and it’s to this like, okay, you know, john

Justin Trosclair 57:44
Denver was probably using auto tune. I’m sure. Maybe

Unknown 57:46
he could have been? I don’t know, but but you know, who will never know now, right? We’ll never know. Very good, very good. Well, how

Justin Trosclair 57:57
can people find you?

Unknown 57:58
Gosh, you know, I don’t think I’m in where, honestly, I think I’ve got I’ve got my I’ve got my email address, which is Martin Bayer DC at gmail. com. That’s where I is where I hang out there. And I have a very,

Unknown 58:14
very small presence on Facebook, which I like to post pictures, too many pictures of my dogs and a dirty joke every now and again. There’s something that’s so obscene that I just have to share with the world. But I got a pretty small fingerprint in the, in the in the electronic world there. I think that’s okay, too. Yeah.

Justin Trosclair 58:38
Well, very good. I really appreciate your time today. I really think the guests are going to get something out of this and really make them think about changing jobs if necessary, and reevaluating, and not realizing I mean, and realizing that it’s okay, if you’re not satisfied, and it’s okay to explore other options in life. So I really appreciate your openness and your honesty today.

Unknown 59:00
Hey, I’m happy to do that. If anyone is out there who’s on the cuffs thinking to do and it’s not. It’s not as bad as it seems there you know, you can find you can find joy in almost anything you want to find joy in and it’s a is the transition from a chiropractor, reversed. Some people say it was a step back to nurse I’ve never seen that like that I’ve been, I’ve loved being a nurse, it’s been a great job for me. Just like chiropractic was great, too. Me too. It’s just it’s a work life balance, you know, as you get older, and that’s what it’s all about. And I found my balance in nursing that I could never find with my with my chiropractic days there. So

Justin Trosclair 59:40
absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yeah, you have a fantastic 2017 you to Dr. Thanks for having me.

Thank you, Dr. Martin bar for being on the show, you definitely did not disappoint. I know there are a lot of people out there who were struggling with being lost in their job or not being satisfied financially. And they maybe they’ve tried different things and they just couldn’t. It couldn’t work. It’s not working. So thank you for sharing your journey, your path to job satisfaction to financial satisfaction. And for the listeners who may have more questions for him, you know, you have his email. So reach out. Stay tuned. For the travel tip. It’s coming up next. All the show notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective. NET slash 06. I almost forgot I am putting the final touches on a free ebook that I want to give to you guys and gals, please go to a doctor’s perspective. net, top side, the bottom, there’s all kinds of places where you can sign up, put your email and your name for updates. Once the book is complete, I will send you a email and then you can download it. It is going to be my secret hacks about health, weight loss, strengthening the spine, different things like that. It’s very actionable it’s implementable is not only can you use it, but also your patients. So go on over to a doctor’s perspective. NET sign up, and you’ll be the first to know when that ebook is ready for downloads. I am quite active on social media and the easiest way to connect is the head over to a doctor’s perspective net. Look at the top right, and you will see all the social media icons just pick your flavor and friend me. I found out in practice that people can hardly pronounce trust Claire, much less spell it because of that. And username lack of availability. I have a mix of my name and Cajun Cairo. I’m from South Louisiana, aka Cajun country. I am a Cajun I am a chiropractor, Cajun Cairo, you will find travel photos, updates, fun comments, etc. Connect comment, and I’ll respond back.

travel tip this week when traveling, especially like in Europe or in Asia, you have lots of opportunities to get a hotel or do hostel and today’s gonna be about picking a hospital. Why would you do it and I was 30 and doing some hostels instead of like riding high school like on a senior trip, backpacking, you know. So, one is to save money, but to is I’m already kind of by myself, I don’t really want to spend a traveling, and then go back to my toe and be by myself. So you get a built in network of people that are doing exactly what you’re doing. So actually, you could tour the city with other people from across the world. share stories really enjoy each other. And yes, of course the hotel, the hospital has, you know, it’s like bunk beds in most places. It might be for people, six people can be all guys all girls and makes sense of a large variety. So definitely read your reviews kind of thing about what would you like, you know, what do you want. And if you have a trip where you’re gonna be staying in different parts of the city as possible, you could book several different hospitals and across the city. Another thing there is you have to carry all your stuff everywhere is somewhere like a hotel, you can leave your bag at the place and you’d have like a locker or something. So that stay safe and all you do is have a little day back. So we’ll talk about hotels and other day but this one is thinking about using a hostel for the networking, and of course the same in a few books.

We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guests. A sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.

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