Episode 19: Rocking the MD Referral Dr. Jeffrey Langmaid Evidence Based Chiropractor

19 merlot grapes on vine in mile yunnan china MD Referral Jeff Langmaid 2

Dr. Jeff Langmaid DC talks to Dr Trosclair on A Doctors Perspective Podcast

Evidence Based Chiropractor Dr. Jeffrey Langmaid provides doctors with tools and services for chiropractors to grow their practice based on research, interdisciplinary communication and building medical referrals.

Dr. Jeff tells us how to search pubmed for the latest in research that you care about.

His program gives you everything you would need to effectively and ethically market to medical doctors, doctors of osteopath etc. How the research is proving that chiropractors, especially the spinal manipulation procedure, is a great choice and positions your clinic as the go to referral for patients that they see with conditions that you are most suited to treat.  From a monthly pdf research summary, to setting up a meeting to talk to the doctors to how to write a case note  summary for the MD records and everything else under the sun to increase medical referrals.

Dr. Langmaid dives into tips on how to actually try and get a career in a hospital setting. What trips up his clients the most and how he handles it so he can give the most benefit to these clients.

Listen to around minute 18 ish and he does a nice mock call on how to land those physician to physician meetings.

Come play in the weeds about email correspondence with :  covering mailchimp, infusionsoft, sumome (list building content) and leadpages.  Dr Jeff drops some massive tips on what he would look for if he ever wanted to buy a clinic.

Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/19 here you can also find links to things mentioned, the Travel Tip and the interview transcription.

 
When purchasing a clinic, email list is number one asset

SPINOLOGY Transform Your Media Spin Into Business Gold Sherry Klinger

Russell Brunson's software ClickFunnels and his books are a must read if you need to market online for patients or online sales. Expert Secrets, DotCom Secrets and 108 Proven Website Split Tests

Neville Medhora appsumo and internet marketing  http://www.nevblog.com/

Reggie Gold for chiropractic philosophy  http://reggiegold.com/
The Success Principles TM 10th Anniversary Edition How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be Jack Canfield

Jab Jab Jab Right Hook How to Tell Your Story in a Noisy Social World Gary Vaynerchuk

Robbie Robinson Autobiography

Napoleon Hill's Classic  Think and Grow Rich

Case report emailed doesn’t have to be long to be effective

Jefflangmaid.com  evidencebasedchiropractor.com  Instagram for behind the scenes  and youtube for long form and more produced videos that you can't find on facebook

Hear a mock dr call at minute 18 www.adoctorsperspective.net/19

Catch him live at many speaking engagements throughout the year

Why wouldn’t you want to send amazing research to an MD with your logo on it

Travel Tip
Try to avoid a hospital in a foreign country or local, don't be to crazy
Full Transcript of the Interview (probably has some grammatical errors). Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:02
Episode 19 rockin the indie referral. I'm your host Dr. Justin trust Claire. Today we have Dr. Jeffrey link needs perspective

for doctors who want a thriving practice and abundant homelife,

listen as your host, Dr. Justin trust player goes behind the curtain and interviews doctors and guess about real world trial. practical tips and entertainment from this episode, a doctor's perspective.

Oh guys and gals, we have got a show today we have Jeffrey Lang Lang with the evidence based chiropractor. He is going to discuss all things in the referral related, he is going to go into how he sets up His own email marketing campaigns, throws in a morning ritual, and so much more. He's got a definitely a surprise little something about him in the end of the episode. And as he said, he said answer some questions that he never had before. So that makes me happy. And hope you guys get a lot out of it today. doctor's perspective, net slash one nine for all the show notes.

Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.

Today in the show, welcome. Dr. Jeffrey langmaid of evidence based chiropractor. Welcome to the show. Thank

Unknown 1:19
you. Thanks for having me. I am pumped to be on as as as we were just talking about briefly it is towards the end of my day and the very beginning of your day. So thanks for taking

Justin Trosclair 1:28
the time. Absolutely. It's a great day to start. You've got so much going on in the pod you just put out a new book, I want to say last year, and you're working on a new one, you got this evidence based chiropractor for those don't know it is? Well, why don't you tell us about what that is?

Unknown 1:44
Yeah, yeah, I'm I am quite busy. Yes. But the evidence based chiropractor is what most chiropractors would know me from so basically with the evidence based chiropractor is its tools and services for chiropractors to help grow and build their practice. But the the unique take that we have on it, which is due to my personal experience is really it's focused on bridging that gap and building relationships with other health care providers in your community. So we kind of loosely call that MD marketing, but it doesn't have to be to an MD it could be to a midwife, a doula do or any other health care provider, but the evidence based chiropractors tools and services for chiropractors to grow their practice based on research based on interdisciplinary communication, and based on building referrals coming into their practice. And there's a ton of arms of the evidence based chiropractor that promote that. That concept.

Justin Trosclair 2:36
Yeah. Now I listen to your podcast, which is nice. It's the real short 10 minutes, 15 minutes at the most usually. And you always highlight a research paper. What are you doing to find that out?

Unknown 2:51
Great question that thanks for listening. So yeah, so the way that I go about research searching? And that's a really good question, because I think a lot of current writers can do it, they just don't know where to start. So there is a very easy way to start and it is through PubMed. So most copywriters are familiar with PubMed. And if you go to PubMed, there's us where you can enter a search at the top of the web page. There's an interesting thing it says advanced right there. And if you click Advanced, you can actually automate and or save a search based upon a specific keyword. So you could do chiropractic, chiropractic, manipulation, chiropractic adjustment, any keywords you want, and they will automatically send you an email with any papers that touch on those keywords at any duration, meaning weekly, monthly, whenever they're posted, or once a year that you want. So that is a key key resource that chiropractors can use to find research, then you got to sort through it. But that's the start. Right?

Justin Trosclair 3:52
Now, I'm always excited about it. Whenever you talk about a paper that proves when you compare us versus like medical doctors, you know, old car fried eggs on top for certain conditions. Obviously, that's not go too crazy. But it helps with headaches that helps all these different things. When you go in repackage that for your clients. Is that unlike a pretty PDF that they facts to the doctors, or how do you actually disseminate that information for clients that you have?

Unknown 4:19
Yep, so all members of the evidence based chiropractor get a monthly PDF. So that PDF that they get is white labeled, so it means that the header and footer are all of their practice information. And nothing is branded as the evidence based chiropractor. So the chiropractic members, the chiropractor's received the PDF each month, that places the research and an actionable context. So it's short, it's one page, it's got graphics, it has a few quotes, it cites the paper, and it tells the other doc why it matters to them. So each each member of the image based chiropractor receives a new paper like that every month, December, there's a members vault that has a variety of tools, resources, guys, videos, everything in the kitchen sink to implement the process and be successful. But then each month, they get an updated piece of research specifically to give out to the they're the other members of the healthcare community and in their community. And we recommend that that actually hand delivered or mailed not faxed because of quality issues.

Justin Trosclair 5:21
That makes sense. I'm curious, once you get the vault, I would look at all these papers and like, Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. What How many can I give them at first, but you just have, I'm guessing you have to just take it slow and just be patient with it.

Unknown 5:33
Yeah, it's absolutely. You know, it's kind of a rabbit and the hair kind of thing. So, you know,

Unknown 5:39
or I guess a rabbit in a turtle hair and a turtle. I don't know where you get what I'm saying. So yeah, it is about that trickle, it's really about making sure that you deliver consistency to those docs, because you're 100% correct. If you gave 50, I'll be I'll exaggerate. If you gave them 50 papers and said, Look at all this wonderful stuff, they going to say that looks a lot and confusing, it's going to go right in my trash can. But if you give them one with very good consistency, then it becomes something they can count on something they look forward to, and something that's easily digestible. So you're 100% correct it you got to trickle it out. And you have to supplement it with a few other things as well to really get the gears turning. But the research ultimately positions your practice as the local leader.

Justin Trosclair 6:22
We're not was in practice in America, one of the things I always did was send a doctor's report with like, just the ortho test our positive what they came in for diagnosis and almost like the ICD nine code of what is spinal manipulation. What is therapeutic exercise, just so that they know what we do? Is that something that you guys recommend as well?

Unknown 6:42
Yep, absolutely. Love it. You're right, you're right on track case notes is absolutely an essential component of it, we recommend for case notes, you hit the nail on the head, patient name, date of service, diagnosis and treatment plan, keep it simple, keep it straightforward and make sure that that Doc's reading it so absolutely correct case, notes, extremely important. But keep them simple, then keep them in fact, impactful.

Justin Trosclair 7:06
Can I ask you if I'm gonna ask you this question, because it's a personal thing I did. Being that that was it was only one page, there wasn't a lot of information. always had my logo, probably an inch, inch and a half.

When they get this, they're going to see boom, Justin's chiropractic clinic first, and then we're like, well, what is this? Okay, you saw Roger, okay.

They might be obnoxious.

Unknown 7:29
No, I think it's important. I mean, it should be on your letterhead. I mean, obviously, logo sizes matter of preference. But I think it absolutely, that's your opportunity to showcase the results patients are getting in your office. So the case note, it's not only clinical, it first and foremost, it's patient focused, because it's completing the chart for the patient. But the second component to it that can't be understated is that it is a marketing tool. We have patients walking around each and every day that are getting well in our office and nobody knows except the patient or the person they tell. The case note is the best opportunity during evaluation reevaluation are discharged from active care to showcase how well patients are getting in your practice. And that counts for a lot. That is the definition of social proof. So you can't go wrong with it.

Justin Trosclair 8:13
Absolutely. I'm going to come back to that. I'm curious because you work at a integrative clinic, medical doctors, orthopedic surgeons, I'm guessing, and then yourself probably physical therapist, how did you get 100 million that type of job? And what's that story,

Unknown 8:25
very long, convoluted process.

Unknown 8:29
So I've worked in practice, really in every facet of being a chiropractor, so I've been an associate, I've been a clinic owner. And about I guess now if I didn't think of it three, at least six, maybe six years ago, I joined a local multidisciplinary group. So and I ran one, and that was a hospital based group. So there was it was full, it was full ortho. So it was there was some hand surgeon, some spine surgeons, some physical therapy department, it was a pretty big group. But I ran one of the satellite clinics for them, and did chiropractic work, of course there and there's physical therapy and the clinic etc. And that's what really eventually kind of put me on the radar of where I'm at now at Laser Spine Institute, because they were very interested in diving more into the conservative aspects of care long term, because they saw the importance of it, certainly. So my experience in that realm kind of made me stand out. And then it took a while, but then through a series of events, ended up working out where I was able to go to them, which was exciting to me, because there we are now a national brand, not just a local brand. So I loved the expansion, I you know, I'm here to play big. So I love the fact that they had a bigger footprint and a bigger vision. And that's kind of how it came to be.

Justin Trosclair 9:47
Now how are there any tips for doctors out there who would love to embrace and do exactly what you're doing, whether it is an ortho group or, you know, at the Laser Spine Institute, there any tips to help somebody to and that type of job that you have,

Unknown 10:01
I think the biggest thing that I always recommend with that is is really persist. It's the same as it's the story of my life, persistence, consistency, and, and relationship building. So it's, it's difficult, I mean, there's those aren't the jobs that you find on monster com or you know what I mean, on Craigslist or something like that. But it's really about bridging the gap, it's about it, let's I'll get tactical get in the weeds with it. It's really about it. So if they have a chiropractor already, one to however many, get in those docs practices, and shadow them until they tell you to go home. Because that's how you're going to start to build that relationship and learn more about the practice. And those are people that you can lean on when the opportunities start to arise, they're also going to be the people on the inside that know about that. If they don't have chiropractors there, then what I'd encourage you to do is one of two things, either if they have grand rounds, or spine conferences with their providers, which are usually for continuing education, those are almost by law opened up to other providers. So go network, just sit and listen a few times, but they'll start to recognize your face. And you can start conversations. And or you can ask those other docs, maybe they have somebody, maybe not the neurosurgeon, you're going to be intimidated, perhaps. But it might be interventional spine or something, just talk with them, ask if you can shadow for a few hours and learn more about their practice that goes such a long way and then follow up and stay consistent with that. And when the opportunities arise, you're going to be the first person that they think of

Justin Trosclair 11:36
a really good point, because if you're shadowing and I'm, that doesn't mean you have to spend eight hours a day with these dogs, they're a chiropractor, they would have hated not this city, but there's one and if you're willing to move or if you're willing to drive 45 minutes, they got a satellite clean, like you're saying or something

Unknown 11:51
that's that's correct. I mean, and you just never know where those were those roads lead. So you know, just spending an hour here, if I'm at two hours he wherever you can with Doc, especially if they already have a chiropractor, you're going to get invaluable insight. And that gives you the opportunity as you see the patients and see how the patient flow to ask them. How did you come to work here? What's been your experience? Who's your boss or supervisor? Who do you report to? Is it chief medical director is that the CEO is that the CEO? Is there a regional director, and then you start to find out who the actual decision makers and influencers are, and build relationships with them, and so on and so forth. So it's a process, which is what often deters many chiropractors. But if you're serious about it, then it's going to take a little work, it's going to take some persistence, but there is a very direct path to it.

Justin Trosclair 12:42
Very good. You know, even in China, when I finally got the job here, it was okay, that was a interesting turn of events. And then now that I'm here, I finally was looking on LinkedIn, trying to find other people doing the same thing. And then you finally find those, and you start talking back and forth. And all of a sudden, you're like, wait, there's jobs here. There's jobs there. Wherever all these jobs advertised you like, I'm still trying to figure that out. Because I mean, people ask me, and I'm like, well, I've got more of a knowledge of the new but it's just they're hidden gems, you know,

Unknown 13:09
right. Now you gotta keep you gotta keep your eyes up, and you got it. You got to stay in, it's ultimately being involved. That's what goes,

Justin Trosclair 13:18
You can't sit at your house. Okay. Alright, so back to the evidence based chiropractor, you've got clients, Is there like a top three that they most struggle with when trying to implement What's going on?

Unknown 13:28
Yeah, good. Good. That's a really good question. actually never been asked that before. So the biggest challenge with implementation is just getting started the to be 100% honest with you, I would say there's been very few people that have been members of the empty space chiropractor, and then decided that they wanted to cancel their membership and something I really don't talk about too often at all, really. But there's been very few people. And I always, I'm interested because the return on investment so high that I'm always curious. And I asked them, like, how can I serve you better? In almost every every single person that's cancelled said, I never really got started. And I've taken that onus on me now because I want to take full responsibility. So that's where even this past year why account with more videos in the members about that show? How do you build a list? How do you look through this material? What is step one, two, and three, and let's get on the phone and hash out how to get started after you've been a member for two weeks, and you're exposed to what what it is. Now let's talk about how to get started. So I think the biggest thing with implementation is not getting started. And some of that comes down to just

Unknown 14:36
ultimately, they're all excuses. But it comes down to time, it comes down to confidence, sometimes with some providers that they're just a little sketched out about getting out there ultimately,

Unknown 14:47
or just something new and shiny comes on their plate so to speak.

Justin Trosclair 14:53
Or do you think maybe they're not delegating? It's a staff member? Very well,

Unknown 14:56
totally. I mean, yeah, because I have a variety I've everything from docs who are one doc know staff members, all the way up to docs that are in all their multi disciplinary groups working with it. So yeah, sometimes delegations an issue. If they feel like it's taxing them too much, then that becomes an issue note out. But it surprisingly, I've seen it more that they just never get started. Rather than it's, I've never had a doc Tell me, it's taking me too much time. Let's put it that way.

Justin Trosclair 15:22
It whenever you get the inside track of other people who have like programs online, you can actually see stats of who watches your video and for how long, even like in Facebook advertising, you see that? And that's what so many people say that people don't even push play. They don't even start you're like, why did you buy it? Especially if you spend in three $400 a month? And it's crazy. But yeah, it is it is interesting.

What are some of the most common concerns that they have the clients that is

Unknown 15:50
flop? I think some of the most common concerns? I mean, earlier on, this is less of an issue now. But earlier on, there were two big questions or concerns, which was one, is this and is it going to hoard? Those are pretty basic. But you know, initially, I think it was a little bit more, I've tried to clean up things a lot too, because the programs pretty expansive, and there's a lot of arms to it. And you get there's nobody that gives more for the price point in chiropractic. I'll just say it. So I think a lot of times when a when a doc starts looking through the deliverables, so to speak of what they're getting. It's like whoa, like, this actually seems like a lot. And that can be intimidating. So like, what am I actually getting? So that's something I've really tried to clarify throughout time. And then the second component, of course, is like, this sounds gray. But like I talked to an MD one time four years ago and didn't get a patient. And I didn't have a plan. And I didn't do anything, and I never followed up. But it doesn't work. And why is this going to be different? And it's, and it's all about systems, it's all about processes. And we have docs that again, 30 4050,

Unknown 16:56
direct MD referrals a year at this point, which could add in us that could add 100,000 $60,000

Unknown 17:03
on to their practice for the you know, for less than, like $1,000 investment per year. So it's, it's, I think the biggest concerns typically are always is it going to work? And what does this do? And I've tried to be much more clear about that without just Hawking numbers all the time.

Justin Trosclair 17:27
I did one of these. And we kind of had a system, but it was not a good system. And we bring lunch, we're chatting, the nurses are there. So we're like, oh, you know, shooting the breeze can actually add the conversations with them. Because a lot of those guys to kind of the person who gives the referral. So we're like, we're like, Oh, where's the doctor? Oh, well, he I'm like, why don't I bring lunch for the doctor? If he's not even going to show up? I was like, Colin, can we have a little mutual respect here? I was like, What a waste? That's like, No, just uh, just just talk to the nurses talk to the

salvage the situation have a good attitude? What happens when you do that? Is that just poor timing? I'm guessing your system can just can cover those type of issues. Right.

Unknown 18:10
Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing I mean, the bottom line is there can always be wild cards, right? So I mean, you can't protect against everything. But you know, when I talked to doctors, chiropractors, I think the biggest thing that we try to get across number one is that, you know, do you bring lunch? Do you not bring lunch? I think that's personal preference. And I always say it's based on Office size, if you like. So if there's like 20 providers don't go crazy if they've never referred somebody to you, if it's a three person office. And you notice the last five patients that came into your front door weren't referred but recognize them as their primary care doc, you might go the extra mile because you're going to be able to showcase your case notes. And it just gives you more of that all inclusiveness. So the other thing I think is with the scripting on the phone call, you know, this is a very mock statement right now. But hey, this is general calling their office Hey, this is Jeff from Dr. Lang meds office. We've co manage quite a few patients with your doctor however Dr. Lang and Dr. Smith, I've never had the opportunity to meet who do I who do I speak to in order to set up that meeting. So again, I'm not saying up front where I'm focusing on lunch or focusing on bringing anything I'm focusing on Hey, this is about co management, this about learning more about your office and this is a physician to physician meeting. So those are there's a few ways to mitigate it but you can ever is always wildcards

Justin Trosclair 19:23
as the business owner, we like to talk about marketing on here. So how are you marketing? And you can answer this either as langmaid with Spine Institute or as all the projects that you have that are like a side income if you will, how do you market your so I wasn't like the top two strategies that you use that's been effective.

Unknown 19:40
The f8 I mean, Facebook for me, Facebook ads still rule Supreme. So I'm big on Facebook ads, I'm big on driving Facebook ads to content. So I really don't, I don't think I've ever run a Facebook ad that was like buy my product, almost all of my Facebook ads drive to content or to some sort of piece that gives value to the doc that's been absolutely huge. And then also the second thing is I recently I was using MailChimp before it's kind of in the weeds. But I was using MailChimp before I switched over to Infusionsoft lately. And Infusionsoft helps all of my automation, so that when a doc subscribes and requests a piece of information, I'm able to follow up better with more particular to their particular interest. So in MailChimp, one of the challenges that I had was it was that everybody kind of went into the same bucket. But I might have a doc who downloaded something on an MD meeting and another doc who downloaded something on search engine optimization, there might be cross over there, but I can better serve them by actually almost splitting them apart, and then giving the SEO Doc, a lot of SEO and marketing content and MD doc a lot of MD marketing content that adds value to them. And then of course that theoretically, hopefully it builds trust with me as they see that I'm going to deliver the goods.

Justin Trosclair 20:59
So I'm here so let's go in the weeds for a second with that. I had thought that MailChimp did have that option. But maybe it's more like a manual where you really have to set up your coding in the back end and be like, we tracked it, you only got it because of this. But if you don't have that tracking, and you really don't know where X, Y and Z person came from,

Unknown 21:16
that's correct. And that's a good question. I MailChimp, I had different lists. Yeah, well break it down right now. So I had different lists within MailChimp. But it was very manual. And when I switched to, so when I switched to Infusionsoft, I also started using lead pages and lead pages, let me direct specifically to an infusion soft form and then tag that individual doc with their interest. So that made my automation a ton simpler. And then I use Sumo me products for like my best of content. So if you visit the website and something comes up on the screen, that's like, I want to send you my 10 best blogs, then that actually is run not through the pages but through Sumo me. And then they're set up where then it just automatically goes to infusion soft as well on a separate list. So So I it is possible with MailChimp, you are correct. But if I sort of simplified the front end, while making the backend way more robust with lead pages and Infusionsoft, they're probably simpler ways to do it. But that's where I was at.

Justin Trosclair 22:31
There's really not, though from what I'm not like on the federal in your price point, though, you know what I mean? Like, MailChimp is free for a while, which is good, because you're learning and you're like, my list is 200 people, that's not very many. So why would I want to spend that kind of money when I don't even have maybe a product to push on anybody to like recoup any of these costs. So that's really interesting. And then Sumo me. I think it was Tristan, he said your app Sumo guru ninja.

Unknown 22:55
Yeah, we both love their products. So there's like, no Kagan is the is the guy who runs Sumo me. And he was just a little bit of back history on him. He was the 30th employee at Facebook, and the fourth employee meant, so he is very, he has been in the tech game for a while at a very high level. And basically Sumo me is like list building tools, essentially. So him and I know what puts out a ton of great content. He had a conferences last year in Austin, Texas that I went to that was absolutely killer.

Unknown 23:28
I think his products are really good. And I've just used I've used zoom on me for literally, as long as the evidence base current, probably a half decade at this point time, as long as the car, the car bright has existed. So I'm very loyal to their products, because I just think that they do a great job. And I also just love what kind of what they do.

Justin Trosclair 23:48
Very good. And for Dr. Listening, like, why are we going in the weeds on this, because you should be building your own patient email list. And if you create content, wherever that is, you could be dripping that and how having some of these things systems to remind them to come in and educate and all these other types of things. And

Unknown 24:05
and I'll say, I'll say something about that, because I was talking to somebody the other day about it. And it's like, back in the day, and like the 70s and 80s. Like if you sold the chiropractic practice, it would be like, well, we have like 10,000 patient files. And that's like the valley. It's like why it's so valuable. And I will no and I was saying I will pay zero dollars today. I'm not intending on buying a practice anytime soon buck, I would, I would pay zero dollars for a patient file. But I would pay a massive amount of money. If a chiropractor said I'm selling my practice, my email list that is within two counties of here is 15,000 people, I email them every single week, and I get 30% open rates and 8% click through rates, I would say I'm ready to buy your practice to day, because I know I can activate those patients, those people into patients very quickly. So any doc any chiropractor, that's not actively building their email list is doing themselves in on real disservice.

Justin Trosclair 25:05
But that sinking everybody, I was so sad, because when I sold my clinic, I lost my list. I wasn't thinking long term. And so you know, once that was gone, I was like, man, I know all of those patients are gone now. And I was like on that in this area. And what I was explaining and expanding like this, I'm like, Oh my gosh, what at least I could have had a normal people. Like,

well, that's where the other doc now that's fine. Leave that alone. I'm guessing I don't even know if you have any competition to be honest with how you actually set yourself up. But maybe just in your realm of all these other influencers you have How do you spot a fly by night chiropractic consulting company? This is really not worth the grain of salt, but really have a nice, pretty package to sell?

Unknown 25:47
Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, I think number one, I think it's just go with your gut. I mean, it's like, I think there's a lot to be said. I mean, the bottom line is, like most people can tell real quick. I mean, if you can't, like what I would do is, if it Look, I mean, just just like do like two minutes of research, like go to their Facebook page. And you know, there's no like magic numbers. I'm not trying to put anybody under the bus. But if it's like, right, because you could just be stopped if the person is just starting awesome. Like everybody starts at zero, that's cool. But if they, if it's like a ridiculously high price product, it looks like their production value. They're like I've been in this game 20 years, I'm just making up 20 years, but and then you look at their Facebook page, and there's like 50 likes, and they started posting like two weeks ago, but it just seems like you can't get anywhere without a Facebook ad. Well, they just had an idea and dumped a bunch of money into Facebook ads, like, we still could be a great idea. But like, then it's like use your gut. But if it if you go there, and it's like, there's a lot of content for a long time, they're talking about the long game, they've been delivering value. They're putting out free stuff, it's just going to give you like, that's somebody that's obviously vested and making a difference. So I don't know. I mean, I just say use your gut and everything's behind a firewall, then that or you know, not a firewall. But if everything's behind, you know, you can't find anything, but besides what you have to pay for. And they, you know, it looks like they started yesterday. Well, they probably did. And that's cool if you want to try them, but it otherwise, you know, you just keep your eyes open and listen to your gut.

Justin Trosclair 27:20
who have been some of your most influential guys and shaping your philosophy, and your copywriting and all that type of stuff.

Unknown 27:28
So that's a broad topic. So so number one chiropractic icon and hero of mine is it would probably surprise a lot of people is actually Reggie gold. So I'm a huge Reggie gold fan.

Unknown 27:39
I think that he had unbelievable ideas, unbelievable concepts. I do believe that what he talked about with spine ology was was different than what chiropractic has evolved to today. And I don't believe they're the same thing. But I, I really, I was fortunate to meet him get adjusted by him before he passed, and he's somebody that I have a great, great deal of respect for in the chiropractic world. Now, in terms of copywriting, that's a really, really good question. It's a combination of so many different things. I mean, a one person that I've worked with personally, I'll give them a shout out here is a gentleman named Neville Madeira. And he actually does copywriting for Sumo me, he's kind of worked with them from time to time, he's friends with Noah, but Neville I worked with in a one on one capacity probably two or three years ago, and just really developing like the conversational tone and trying to just get better. And then I mean, untold other people, but those Reggie gold and the chiropractic front and level, I'd have to give props on the on the copywriting front got me started during during my, on my paths, and that I learned from innumerable people since then. Very good.

Justin Trosclair 28:55
So just switching gears here a little bit, when you talk to doctors who are struggling or young kids in school, but the graduate what some of the one or two pieces of advice that you would consider invaluable that you maybe wish you knew.

Unknown 29:08
I mean, I think the biggest thing is just it's which is the hardest thing. It's like play long, like have patience, play for the long game, don't get too excited day to day. And everybody struggles with that, right? I mean, you have a great day, you have a tough day. And it's like ads, it's easy to get high and low with the tide. But rocking through is very, very important. The other thing that I would say as time goes on, I just think it's so important. Like just like an email list. Like, imagine if you were an associate, like you're coming out of school, and the whole last year that you were in school, you started like putting out awesome content, and building and and you knew you were going to move back to like Wisconsin, and like you move back to Wisconsin, and you put out awesome content, as like a student Doc, like not trying to pretend anything you are, but talking about that. And you go up to Wisconsin, and you're like, Okay, I have a list of 3000 people that live in Wisconsin that have downloaded my material, you've got to get an associate job and you have leverage, like, So building your personal brand, or your business brand, as early as possible, I think is something that's like a lot of people are getting hip to. But still, there's so many chiropractors that are just like, don't want to do it or just aren't familiar with technology very well, you know, one way or the other. So I think playing for the long game, in building your audience, building your brand, as early as possible, gives you options and opportunities.

Justin Trosclair 30:35
You know, my niece is graduating high school. And she's in a seasonal smart, so she's probably probably get a PhD at some point. But she's kind of starting this little business and wants to try to make some money. And she was asking me for some piece of advice. And what you just said was, that's kind of that's what it's like, Look, you're in high school, we didn't have Facebook, Instagram, think you probably will have more followers than I will in about a month because you just joined the system because their parents were like, No, you can't do that. But it was she's gonna have this huge gigantic list, then you got to go to college and have this juice juice gigantic was and if you're a person that's going to go back home town or kind of the same area like a lot of people do. My goodness, you're going to have, like you said that 3000 person list and no time. Granted, it could be your peers with your peers are going to come see you to and then they have family and everything. Like it's you kind of a huge advantage being younger,

Unknown 31:22
no doubt. And it doesn't mean it doesn't it doesn't have to be that big. And it can be a 300 person list. I mean, it's like that if you have the spark of an audience. I mean, the bottom line is a majority of people have zero, you don't need to have you know, zero to 500,000 emails in like one year. Yeah, that's awesome. It's probably not going to happen for everybody. But the zero to 200, zero to 300, zero to 50. Okay, like, it's just like, and then 50 becomes 60 becomes 61 becomes 70. It's all about that growth. And like, that's just so on underrated right now.

Justin Trosclair 32:01
Yeah. Patients on

what's a five year ago that you haven't How do you know if it's worthy of your pursuit?

Unknown 32:10
That's a really good question. So. So five year goal for me, I mean, I have three long term goals that are just very, very clean, I guess you'd say. My goals are to increase chiropractic utilization, facilitate other chiropractors getting better, higher quality paying jobs, and ultimately manager direct and that nationwide conservative care program. So the all of my goals go towards those three things. So. So those are my five year goals, my 10 year goals, my 30 year goals. How do I know that that is what is applicable to me or kind of what I want to be after. It's because they're timeless, it's not based on money. It's not based on income, it's based upon, again, those specific criteria that I look towards, in my doing something to increase chiropractic utilization, meaning getting the word out, increasing engagement, am I doing giving carburetors tools to build Am I also working towards getting chiropractors better quality, higher paying jobs? Absolutely. That's something I work on daily. And that's something that's to come later this year, in terms of chiropractic, really being able to talk about that in depth. And then the the third component of that ties in with the second, which is really, you know, I want to lead the charge, because I know where I'm coming from. And I know the hard work I put in for over 10 years, as far as facilitating those, both of those changes to the best of my ability.

Justin Trosclair 33:38
Well, I want to just say a big thank you, though, because I appreciate what you're putting out free on the podcast. And if that is just a small sliver of what you provide for all these other doctors out there, then I just want to say thank you, because I get a lot of value out of these research papers, you present it in a good way. And you know, it's just, it's going to be huge with all these doctors, these chiropractors are sending stuff to medical doctors, that means they are hopefully at least seeing it. And the bigger input imprint you're going to have is gonna be huge. So I just appreciate your your effort there for so long. So

Unknown 34:10
thank thank you. Thanks. Thanks for listening and paying attention.

Justin Trosclair 34:15
So we're going to switch last few questions and be a little bit more personal that cool. Are you married by chance?

Unknown 34:20
Yes, I've been married. I've been married. It's probably going on going on eight years now. And I have a three year old daughter.

Justin Trosclair 34:28
Okay, so perfect. always like to clarify first. So one of the questions would be vacation, a lot of doctors are burned out, they never get a vacation except for like Christmas. How do you how do you handle that? Do you have a little easier because of the laser, Spine Institute type of job?

Unknown 34:45
So I do. So I do four weeks per year. So I do four weeks per year. But the challenge is I'm trying to be better about this. That's a as again as another good question, because I do four weeks per year, but I work 365 days a year. So meaning that I get four weeks vacation from you know, my Monday through Friday, you know, kind of day job, so too, so to speak. But I'm more I there is there a day that goes by including including probably Christmas, that I'm not on my computer working on something to do with the evidence based chiropractor. So I'm actually trying this year, I of course, I'm going to say this this year, the second half of the year, not the first half of the year, but the second half of the year, I'm going to try to be a little bit better about splitting that time in really tuning out the you know, and making those lines a little bit thicker. So but the the answer to your question is, is that I get four weeks off per year, but most of those days that I take off, if I'm not ultimately on vacation, I take off to work on other projects, including the evidence based chiropractor.

Justin Trosclair 35:47
Hmm, very interesting. Does that. Does that cause conflict with the wife?

Unknown 35:52
Yeah, but I mean, you know, let me I should rephrase that. No, because she's, I've been this way for Well, before we met each other. And she and it's been an it was talking to a coworker about this the other day, because he really wants to start doing some other business stuff on the side. But he's like God, like when I get home, like, she's gonna kill me. And I don't blame him. Because he was very clear when they got together that he would go to his work come home. And that was it. And I've always been somebody that is very, very linearly driven. And I absolutely love my family and want to spend the best quality time with them. And I certainly want to go on the ride together. But it's something where I've been this way for a long, long time. So

Justin Trosclair 36:44
that's a bonus than what kind of things do you do maybe with your daughter with? It was a daughter, right? He said, Yeah, the wife? How do you spend time with them to make them feel like the time that they do have like, what do you do to keep the relationship active and happy and an in a positive way?

Unknown 37:01
Yep. So most, like Saturdays are typically our day where I really don't do hardly any work on the evidence based chiropractor said maybe in the morning, Sunday, I shoot a lot of video. And that gets eaten up a lot. But Saturday tends to be that day. So I mean, we'd like to do i mean go whether it's going to a park, whether it's kind of just hanging out, we were fortunate enough to get a pool put in our house last year. So we hang out by the pool, and just go out, you know, go out to dinner, go to a park hang out by the pool, just I mean nothing like too wild and crazy. And then secondarily, tried to get them to try it when when we are able to arrange it also to travel with me specifically when I do travel items. So the last couple years, I've been fortunate to speak in California, for the California chiropractic Association. So that's a great opportunity for all of us to go and spend an extra day or two and kind of just lounge and hang so. So there's a couple things and always try too.

Unknown 38:01
few nights a week always try to be present for when it's time to read books to go night.

Justin Trosclair 38:07
Very good. That's the stuff they remember. Right. All right. Do you have any kind of morning or lunch routine that really gets you focused for the rest of the day?

Unknown 38:14
Yep, same thing every morning. So then this is a good segue to because I just actually shot a video of this last Sunday that's being edited right now that's not out yet. So but yes, I do this, I do the same thing every morning. So basically, when I get up in the morning, my alarm goes off at 6:30am. I've never hit the snooze button in my entire life. I immediately get out of bed and walks it I'll give you the complete play by play. I immediately get out of bed and walk to the shower. I'm in the shower for probably five minutes. Then I earned my clothes for the day, walk downstairs and make a smoothie. That takes me another five minutes, three days a week I wake up my daughter and put on our clothes and put her in our bed until she's ready to get up with my wife. The other days, she sleeps in a little bit later. And I am usually out the door within 20 to 25 minutes of waking up. So I I tried to be exceptionally straightforward in the morning and just get going. Because that helps propel me throughout the day. And I'm just not somebody who's like, Oh, well if I have to get if I get up at 630 and get up at 630 I don't like set the alarm for six hit it three times until it's 630 like to me that's like crappy sleep a waste of time and everything else so so smoothie in the morning, no big breakfast I quit donuts for the most part, at least. And, and get up and going.

Justin Trosclair 39:36
Very good. Yeah, that's the it's easy to get a longer day to if you wake up early.

So you have any favorite so this last piece books, apps, on our books, podcasts, anything that you've listened to, or that you would like to recommend for other people to engage their their their mind.

Unknown 39:55
Yeah, so that mean there's so many I mean, so apps probably nothing revolutionary. I mean, I track my website stuff on my phone, Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff. So I'll leave that aside. Books. I am like a I have like, I think I have seven books that I'm currently reading right now. So it's completely insane. So I am reading like the newest Gary Vee book. I'm reading the newest runs the Russell Brunson calm secrets book. So how is like a split test book that I'm in the middle of? I have Robbie Robertson from the band is like the old band, the band, his autobiography testimony. Basically, I read two things at all times. I read music, I play music as well. So I read music, biographies, and I will put my collection up against anybody in the world. I have like hundreds of music, biography books, and or business books. So as far as an all time favorite, I never ever ever think you can go wrong with things can Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. I think that's so classic. And I also love there's a jack Arden book. It's not how good you are, how great you want to be. I feel like I'm butchering that title. It's really small, very little text. It's like eight bucks on Amazon. But it is it was very influential to me. So those those are what the what I would say podcasts I listened to Art of Charm, self made man. I listened to a16z. I listened to the distance. I listened to pat Flynn's podcast and john Lee Dumas is podcast. And then I listened to a Facebook ads podcast. So those are like that's like me in a nutshell.

Justin Trosclair 41:47
Very good. I'm amazed at the different podcast like I've only had a couple people repeat. One that they do books, you know you lots of people like think Grow Rich, but then podcast. I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I don't have enough time in my day. even listen to like one episode of all these different one that I want to but that's exciting. You know, there's so much out there. What do you play? As far as music?

Unknown 42:08
Yeah, play guitar. I play guitar. And in a in a in a in a band. I used to play in a band that did a lot of touring and everything like that. Like it was my job for a little while, like, about 15 years ago. But now I play in a band. I play guitar we play around Tampa Bay, we play regionally.

Justin Trosclair 42:25
Oh, very cool. What's your style?

Unknown 42:27
Like modern rock? I mean, we were all dudes that used to listen to like punk rock and hardcore music. So it's like it's like old dude version of that basically.

Justin Trosclair 42:36
Okay, I was just curious.

Well, how can people get in touch with you?

Unknown 42:40
Yep. So I'm pretty easy to find any it Jeff Lang made calm je FF Li, n g Ma, Id Jeff Lang made calm is a little bit about me kind of my personal brand. And then obviously, the evidence based chiropractor. So on any social media channel, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, the evidence based chiropractor and I would say two things out of those is really, most people, there's a lot of chiropractors like over 10% of the profession, which is insane. That's on the Facebook page. So we're still means there's like 90% not or 80% not. So definitely check that out, because that has stuff every day. But the two things that I'm really working on in 2017 that I think a lot of docs are getting that are early, but a lot of doctors super hyped on is the Instagram because it's really the behind the scenes of how I do all this stuff. So it's way more behind the scenes than Facebook, which is cool. And then the YouTube page, I'm doing a ton of video that sometimes does not get posted on Facebook. So the YouTube page is also something that I'm really looking to to deliver better and better content throughout time.

Justin Trosclair 43:48
We're going to stop you put it on YouTube, I'm kind of curious.

Unknown 43:50
Yeah, so it can be a variety of things. So sometimes I'll do a little bit more long form. So there'll be a little bit more produced video. So instead of like a Facebook Live video where I'm just hopping on and like chatting, I'll do deeper dive. So I might do the URL, for instance, I did one that's like 15 minutes long. And it's all on search engine optimization. For chiropractors, that's a really popular one. Because basically I go through like, you know, here's what you need to do, here's what you and then we can do screen cuts and all the stuff that you can't really do in a Facebook Live video. So it's way better for like learning. And the other most popular one is is some some of what dives into the research. So I'll do it. I've done somewhere there's deeper dives 10 to 15 minute dives on the research, similar in some ways to the podcast. But again, I can grab a model in that case that you know in the video, I can really emphasize what's going on in a little bit different way than just the audio itself. So

Justin Trosclair 44:45
very good. Any speaking engagements, speaking engagements coming up

Unknown 44:48
a couple of them so in a couple of weeks, I won't be speaking but I'll be attending NC LLC and Washington DC. So Wow, that sounds like a rap style. So. So anybody that's going to head up to DC hit me up Jeff at the evidence based chiropractor, I'm looking to meet as many docs as possible, hang out and certainly talk shop. So I'll be in Washington not speaking in March. I will then be at in Atlanta speaking in April. And I will be also in New Jersey speaking in April, in the same weekend. So I will be I'll be doing a Friday at in Atlanta at life University for life vision seminar, and then I'll be traveling and speaking to the New Jersey chiropractic

Unknown 45:32
conglomerate up there at on Saturday, and and that'll be cool. So in the next couple months, next six weeks, I'll be in three different places and with some other things to come later on in the year. But those are the next three.

Justin Trosclair 45:44
Very good. I'm just curious, have you ever looked at doing a continuing ed seminars? Like a whole like eight hour seminar on a Saturday for docs are not there yet?

Unknown 45:54
That No, I've considered it I have them. I have I have more than eight hours of material because I usually you three programs that I that I teach and there's my communication, MRI, post surgical rehab are all classes that I've taught for at least two hours. But if the demand is there, I'm down to do it if anybody listening wants that to happen, but just shoot me a message and say I'm interested in there's no obligation. But But I'd love to make that happen. If there's enough interest. Certainly, it's something that I've kind of toyed with. And I've had some docs asked me about, but haven't put it together. So if anybody is down, you can nudge me and and maybe we'll maybe we'll go for it.

Justin Trosclair 46:34
Very good. I want to appreciate, like I said, again, all that you're doing for the profession, and lots of lots of success for 20 1740, man. Awesome. Thank

Unknown 46:43
you, Jess, I appreciate you having me on. Thank you for everything that you're doing over there and getting the word out and taking your time as well. I've been listening and obviously we connected online and I was happy to do so. And super excited that you said hey, do you want to come up? So thank you.

Justin Trosclair 47:01
Well, good grief. Dr. Lang Lang brought it today. Appreciate the advice on trying to get into hospitals are multidisciplinary clinics. It's fun to know that you play in a punk band, I think we must be around the same age. Really looking forward to your YouTube videos. actually check some of those out and he definitely go deeper. So if you want more information, definitely check him out at an evidence based chiropractor.com and all of his Instagram and YouTube things. He's very active on social media. So check out this program and definitely you can learn something from him even if you don't join work hard this year, and making your best year ever. Show Notes doctor's perspective, net slash one nine.

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travel tip today is only appropriate to say hey, when you're out and about in a foreign country, or even in another area, you want to probably don't get too crazy so that you could avoid a hospital visit. Talk about a horrible way to spend a vacation, nursing a broken leg. Especially if you were doing something dumb that you know, you probably shouldn't have been doing drinking too much probably or you know, accidents do happen. Worst case would be like a car accident or something or a boat accident. Try not to have to go to the hospital trying to have to go to the doctor as much as you can play it safe, be smart, but have fun, of course. Especially be in a foreign country. You never know what kind of care you're going to get what kind of deal you're going to get. Some places might have better access than you have in America, and then other places might be way worse. And so you know you just don't want have to deal with those types of things. I can tell you some stories but I'll spare you in on America you can be pretty much good to go as long as they take your insurance or whatever. But again, you who wants to waste half a day or the whole weekend dealing with that. So play it safe guys. Narrative for today.

We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please support read the word about this podcast by telling to friends, sharing on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor's perspective. net to see all the references from today's guests. I sincere thank you in advance. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor's perspective.

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