Making multi 7 figures a year and having a busy practice might make you feel like a clinician instead of a doctor and lead to burnout. This is why Dr Charles Webb sold his clinic switched to a new passion, became successful at that but with the economic crash, suddenly lost everything and was filing for bankruptcy. The good news is he has always been learning from top people in other professions and always had a desire to reinvest that into other people. He started another chiropractic clinic and turned that also into a 7 figure income and even collected close to $75000 a month before needing to hire an associate. Find out what a fee based plan is.
He discusses how and why to diversify your services. Explains to the naysayers how you can be ethical and a standup doctor while still being successful because of offering other services and fee based plans. Â Frustrated doctors are his ideal client. If someone is making 400k a year but runs 85% overhead then this person has a money problem, but another client could have issues scaling his procedures to have multiple clinics or more vacation or the owner step out and put it on autopilot.
His coaching program Freedom Practice Coaching is available to teach these type of things to medical doctors, chiropractors and the like.
He talks about one of his best marketing strategies to prequalify a patient so you don't waste both of your times. On average this technique would yield $60000 in just 70 minutes. Dr. Charles let's you know the best way to actually take a vacation as a clinic owner and how many days you should work per week.
Applying to his coaching services also gets you access to spend a weekend getting to know more about what he does and how he can serve you. This way you both don't have to invest time and money on a relationship that may not gel well. Freedom Practice Coaching is what Dr Webb calls an MBA for your business, not a mom and pop trading time for cash management company. He is so confident in his coaching that he offers a guarantee that you will make 400% more than you invest. In fact most clients double or triple their practice within the first year of joining.
You are not a commodity if you change your mindset to realize the value that you provide your patients. If you ever wondered how to go from Pay per Visit care to Fee based plan, then listen to this episode. Check out minute 43-49 for a great mock talk.
Also, if you want to take your business, passions, hobbies seriously, you need a coach for them. Learn from someone better than you in all areas that you can. At the end of the interview find out how he organizes his life to super productive.
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If you would like to learn more about Dr. Webb's practice consulting group, freedom practice coaching, and their approach to helping doctors thrive in practice, go to FPCmasterclass.com or call 2104606476 for a discovery day webinar- make sure it's a fit
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/18 here you can also find links to things mentioned, the Travel Tip and the interview transcription.
Justin Trosclair 0:04
expansion by ethical diversification I'm your host Dr. Justin trust Claire. And today Dr. Charles web perspective
for doctors who want a thriving practice and abundant homeless, listen as your host, Dr. Justin Foursquare goes behind the curtain. Can you hear doctors and guess about real world
practical tips and interface on this episode, a doctor's perspective. Today's guest is Dr. Charles web of freedom practice coaching. He is someone that went from millionaire to bankrupt a millionaire. And as it's been a lot of time, turn this practice from mom and pop to where you can pretty much coach you to be in a MBA in business versus the mom and pop. He goes into a nice mop talk near the end of the episode goes over how he's able to make 60,000. And just one presentation and just talks about like his ideal client, which is lots of different types of doctors. It's just a really good episode. To be honest, he gives a lot of good information, and I think you're going to enjoy it. At the end of the episode, stay tuned, he will give a special link for a webinar. Or you can get more information about what he does and see if he is a fit for you and your style of practice. And like I said the episode title, he'll discuss ways to diversify your clinic to make not only more money, but provide more services for your clients that they already need. And that's a good thing. You can find all the Episode Notes at a doctor's perspective, net slash one eight. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.
Welcome to the show, Dr. Charles web of freedom practice coaching. You've been doing it for four years. And we just were so happy to have him on the show. How you doing today? I'm doing awesome. I'm doing awesome. How about you Justin doing really well. Just a great evening. And I ready to pick your brain about what you do as a profession, and then how you help other clients and just, I'm just ready to go, are you?
I'm ready to go. So yeah, I was gonna ask you what the time what time zone
Justin Trosclair 2:08
is Sarah and China? It's 11:40pm right now 749 40
a m here at San Antonio.
Yeah, I'm a night owl. So this is much better than those five o'clock wake ups that I have to do most of the time. Right? Yeah,
yeah, let's get going. Let me see I can help
Justin Trosclair 2:25
you. All right, let's see. Now since you have a chiropractic management company, you can choose to answer the question how you would a like for like the marketing, you know, how would you answer it as a company? Or how our client would look at marketing and the other questions. So just to get going? How did you become a transition from being a doctor solely to now doing coaching? What was what's the background story on that?
Well, I've got a, you know, I've got a large, long background, I was in practice for a while, it's where, you know, started off just like a lot of cars practice. And I got burnout. I was one of those doctors that followed the the typical practice management protocols I will see in 350 patients a week and, and you know, I brought in a lot of income Justin, I did very well. In fact, I was able to take my company public back in 1996. And I was able to do well financially, and I stepped out and I didn't want to go back in I felt I didn't feel like I was a real doctor. I felt like I was a technician. We learn all this thing in school. And then we focus only on adjusting I guess I just I was a little bit burnt out on it. And so I got out but I got into other businesses, I started learning real estate real heavy started getting into concert promotions. And again, I did very, very well. But I don't know if you remember it was back in, I believe 2002, where we had the big tech bubble burst. And I had a lot of clients that were on margin calls that came out of that tech industry is multimillionaires. And when margin calls hit, the banks came after him. And course they would highly invested in my companies. And so I lost my companies both both of them in a very short period of time, with from financially independent to bankrupt in about three months. Wow. And so I had to get back on the horse. And so I got back in to what I do best. But I immediately started studying entrepreneurs outside of the industry, I wanted to find out how do I go back in and do exactly what I felt was necessary working with patients in all care. So chiropractic was part of it. But I wanted to introduce other things that I did in my own life, because I'm a very healthy guy, I'm an athlete always been. So I wouldn't have mattered a whole different way. And so when I got back in to practice in late, late 2004, 2005,
I knew it was going to be a temporary thing I knew what I wanted to do was build a platform to teach other dogs. So in 2000, September 2013, I started I started my FPC to the consulting group, in September 2012. A year later, or not even a year, it was July of 2013, I sold my practice, I stepped out and I was full time into this and at the time I sold my practice we we were we're on track to to break $3 million that year. Wow. Cash practice. So I love helping other doctors. So when I was in practice, just and I was able to help, maybe, you know, 35 new clients a month, you know, I had associate help me and so forth. And then and and a lot of people go, Well, how did you collect that much money with that many clients? Well, it was it was a whole wellness type of practice, I wasn't just getting paid for chiropractic adjustments, they were paying us for our knowledge. So they were they were they saw an investment into a full package of what we're giving them of services that mostly were educational. But with that said,
I really wanted to be able to impact you know, hundreds of thousands of lives, not just what I could do. And I want the impact of the doctors I saw doctors not not just chiropractors, but all kinds of doctors, struggling financially doctors that were you know, I was I think I was a very, very good doctor, but I knew a lot of friends that were better than I was. And and they were struggling. And and I knew you know, this can't go on to the chiropractic profession is going to go under. So that's why I started it.
Justin Trosclair 6:20
Very good. So is that your ideal client that the struggling doctor or you or do you like no, no, no, no, no,
I when I say when I say struggling? I don't just I don't want to reference that just to the financial part. Okay. Okay. So let's call it a frustrated doctor. Okay. Yeah. So we have doctors clients come to us that that, like I just I just a recent client of mine is collecting $400,000 a month when he came to us. Okay, he's doing okay. And, and he's not even in the practice, he wants to take it to another notch. So he wants to automate his practice, he doesn't want to depend fully on insurance, because it's mostly insurance right now. And he he wants to the organization that we can help him with. So he can fully step out and allow this business to run, but he wants to bring more wellness in, he wants to have more cash. So with insurance continues to go down because he sees it. So so we have those doctors, we do have doctors that are collecting a decent amount of money, maybe maybe 40, $50,000 a month. But when we look at what they're taken home, they're only taken home 25% of that, right. So so that's a frustrated doctor and and quite frankly struggling you can't you can't say for your future. So whether the doctor is doesn't have free time, doesn't have financial security, doesn't feel like he's able to deliver the kind of services to his or her patients where they because they're they're bound by insurance. those are those are our clients.
Justin Trosclair 7:44
Want. And that was actually the the question I was about to ask, what are they struggle with? But you just answered that. So I would say what's one of their biggest mind space flaws, if you want to call it that, that you have to overcome to get them past those hurdles?
I'll tell you, you know, we have we have a tremendous amount, we have a huge educational platform. And our success rate has been you know, through the roof have been very happy. But with some of our doctors that, you know, we're still struggling, we kept going well, what are they not getting? What is it? Do I need to do in other lessons to help them understand how to to the lessons, you know, and it just kind of hit me and it was like, wait a minute, that would they don't need any more lessons? No, there's what's going on in their heads? Right, right. So so the majority of doctors that do come to us the majority of doctors, period, business people, anyone we all have, we all have mindset issues that hold us back. And we see a tremendous, we see a lot of with doctors, in fact, so many doctors, when I first tell them, you know how we didn't practice they they're they're skeptical, I get it. Okay, but they're almost attacking. Like, you must be a crook, you must be because they're trying to calculate in their head. Well, how can you How can you collect $250,000 a month 60 $60
adjustment or an $80, just whenever. So they're thinking very small, they're thinking that working as a technician, is going to lead to success. And so getting out of the box and separate yourself from the typical practice management, we're not a practice management company. So separating that getting out of the box, and not following what everyone else is doing. Because the majority of doctors out there had been taught the wrong ways to do business, they've been taught to run a mom and pop shop as a technician. So when that happens, this the ceilings very low. They're stuck in the practice, they have to they have to trade their time for dollars, they can't take vacations, they can't watch the kids, baseball games, it's all messed up. So the mindset is, step away have enough faith and courage to say maybe I'm doing it wrong. What's another way to do it, and if I find, so I went after and found very successful entrepreneurs, I didn't I didn't get my study and from from other doctors, I wouldn't found that built fortune 500 companies and things like this. And so you have to have an open mind that number one, you have a tremendous amount of time, energy money that you've put in and given up your life to help other people, you're worth something. And doctors have a tendency to have, I guess what I would call a poverty mindset. And and you can't find the worst and what they do, yet, yet they talk all the time about how valuable that what they do is but when you put when you want to put a trade value on it, and exchange of value, they're very timid about that. So we have to break people of this old mindset and help them understand. You might not think you're valuable, but the public does. And when you can change someone's life, and allow them to start, you know, experience, you know, pain free life experience, taken a run with their dogs and being able to have sex with your spouse and not hurt and being able to wake up the morning and fear your age or 10 years younger. And these are things that we as chiropractors, we see success all the time. And we take it for granted that well. It's not that big of a deal. It is a big deal. But we have but we have to start recognizing what else are you delivering outside of your of your technique, your adjustments? So you're not a commodity? What what else is part of health? Is nutrition part of health? Well, of course it is. are you delivering it? are you delivering that education is exercised part of it. And when I say deliver that education, Justin, I don't mean handing out pamphlets, you have structure systems within the practice, to help make certain that people fully understand it that is structured and they're held accountable for it, then you'll see the results, you'll see the compliance and you'll see your referral practice go through the through the roof because you're stepping outside of what other people do, you can't base your fees and everything else on Well, the doctor down the street charges this so I must charges that that's a small thinking. Don't Don't, don't compare apples to apples, you're not a commodity unless you act like one. So the only thing you're delivering is exact same thing, the other doctor an adjustment. You may be the best chiropractor in the world. But the people going to the other doctor don't know that. And they're going to compare apples to apples. Well, he's charging me $40 for adjustment or the joint, I can get, you know, so many adjustments for the month, why would I go to you and you're trying to help? Well, because I'm better? Well, they don't get that. So you're gonna have to demonstrate that you're a real doctor. And a real doctor is an educator, a teacher. So it's not just about the service people people are not buying. They're not interested in paying for your sources, what they're interested in investing for a result?
Justin Trosclair 12:40
That's very true. When you take a new on a new client. Are you having these live boot camps? Are there? Are they video based? Or how do you how do you talk to these clients to to change their mindsets like this?
So you're talking about bringing a client at the SPC creative practice? Okay, so first and foremost, we're not to coach for everyone. Okay? I make it very clear that freedom practice coaching is an MBA for your practice of practices of business, there's no way there is no way you can't separate it. So a business itself has to have the components of the business and everything, from the promotional aspects to the pre education aspects to the staff training, to the hiring, to the organization to the statistics, all that's in the business. So we introduce our ourself initially through maybe a webinar, so we have webinars that are going on every week. In fact, there's a webinar going on tonight. So we have webinars, we have live events. So I have people that work for me that have been in the trenches that were doctors, some still are that go around the country, and we do like dinner presentations. So and in at those presentations, we may have 1520 dogs, half of them DCs, half of them MDS. So our coaching program is for all doctors, everyone, yeah, we have chiropractors, we have MDS, we have natural pass, it doesn't matter businesses, businesses business. And so we do anywhere from a maybe a 45 minute to an hour webinar, to a two hour dinner talk, you know, things like this. And from that point, if there's an interest, because we really try to lay it on the line, this is who we are. We don't we don't spray pixie dust, we don't try to convince people that it's easy that you overnight, you're going to make a million dollars, we were very clear that you will succeed. And our program is hundred percent guaranteed that you that we have to we have to have, you're going to make a 400% return on your money with us, or it's free. So it's a huge guarantee it is but from that point, we we have those that are interested they they will fill out a break basically practice analysis so we can find out where they are. And then find out what their goals are where they want to go and practice. Do they see themselves wanting to just do maybe a three day workweek, that's their goal, they want to start, they want to have income, but they want systems. Or maybe it's the person says I want to expand a 10,000 square feet, I want to impact my community, I want to write a book I want to travel. So all all kinds of clients. And then we determine does this seem like a fit. In the phone call, we go through a lot of details. If it feels like it could be a fit, we actually fly them down to San Antonio for discovery day on our time, on our time. So they fly down again, it's there's no commitment, I just know that when we get to a point to where it seems like a fit. When they do come down to discovery day, about 78% of them, they get it they move forward. And so it works out well. So that's that's the structure. Now with that said that the same things that we use in our business to determine who's a fit, because if you're in practice today, too often, the chiropractor will take everyone as a client. That's a big mistake. Not everyone's your clothes, not everyone will be compatible, not everyone will be compliant. And that's going to that's going to injure your reputation if you take those people on, because they're going to quit, they're not going to refer they're going to say bad things are going to give you bad reviews and all of this. So everything that how I run freedom practice coaching with all the business strategies, we we teach our clients those exact strategies.
Justin Trosclair 16:22
They have one tip that you will share with us on that Denmark.
Yeah, for example, most chiropractors, the first time that a client walks in a prospect walks into their their practice, right, that's the first time ever meet, they don't know anything about them, except maybe what's on their website, and the 90% of the websites are totally trashed. Yep, totally. They're, they're just, they're just a business card. That's all they are, that they're there. They're not, they're not built right at all. So you're expecting someone in a one or day or two day report to get everything. And then when you go to cash you struggle, well, no one has any money. Well, the fact of the matter is, the majority people have money, the majority people are willing to invest in your health, if they're fully educated. So no one could ever get an appointment in my office, or a walk in or anything they didn't have. They went first to a pre educational event of some sort, whether that was a webinar, or a live event, my office or a dinner talk or whatever it might be, we gave them an opportunity. So I could educate the masses think Think, think about this way. And this is who I learned this from.
When I was younger, I went to a Barnes and Noble to see Deepak Chopra speak. Now everyone knows a Deepak Chopra is huge. He's world. He's worldwide known. He got on Oprah the whole deal. But I said, Look, there's 20 fold out chairs here from Deepak Chopra, to educate the masses. So his time is worth a lot. He can't educate one on one. And I got it. And I said, if this is good enough for Deepak Chopra, it's good enough for me. And that's how I build my business. And I still do it today. So if I'm going to spend an hour of my time educating about this wellness approach, how we do things different to get your goal, again, it's not about my services is not about that I do XYZ. It's an approach. And here's how we get you to your goal, because that's the answer. I'd rather spend that in front of 20 people, 30 people, 40 people. So giving an example, every time that I would do a live talk, my average crowd would be about
3738 people, maybe if sometimes I'd get 50, sometimes 25. So let's just say 3038 to 40 people, the income that I got out of one talk that took me about an hour and 20 minutes was an average of about $60,000. Wow. So what now could I have done that one on one. So that means that same 40 people, I go one on one, one on one. So instead of collecting a quarter million dollars a month, I'd probably be collected and 50 a month, if I did the old practice management model. Yeah. But But this way, everyone had the freedom to come to a neutral talk, there was no commitment there, it was very easy. They bring their spouse, they can bring a friend or whatever. And they get to hear now we teach our doctors how to communicate effectively, we teach them how to speak, we teach them how to move all those things that are important in communication. And those people that see the value, take the next step. And that's where they come into a consult, those people that don't see the value are not ready. That's okay, I still educated 40 people that died. So down the road, those that didn't move tonight, a lot of them will move down later when it hits. So instead of spending all of this time, all I had to do was once a week, spend an hour of my time to flood my practice with all the people that I needed. And that's called pre education. Again, you can do that online as well. So I think did that I had online videos that people would just go straight in, they would watch it and they would actually pre pay for for console visit. So all the people that came into my console, they prepaid for those, there was no free console, it's the minute you do a free console, you're basically saying my services aren't worth it. I'm a fly by night kind of person. I'm just a chiropractor. And and and so that's the way they look at you. And then in too many consider what everybody's teaching practice management. That's why that's why the chiropractic profession is dying.
Justin Trosclair 20:32
You know that? Well, and you know, you're doing the opposite of you know, everybody encourages, do the console, then do the report of findings and then have like a group report of findings afterwards. And you're you just flipped it and said no, no, no, you do the report of findings. In a sense, though, the educational talk first and pre qualify everybody before they even come in, you can't
afford to educate someone that's not ready. Yet, it's if you want to help as many people as you can. So if your goal is to excel business, if you're in practice, you you're in practice for several reasons. Number one, you want to do things your way, right. That's one reason where practice number two, we want to have financial independence, whatever that means. financial independence to some people means I want to take home 10 grand a month. So other people, I want to take home 100 that's your business and what you do with it. Some people financial independence means I want to be able to help my community and put pump 20 grand a month into my church, that that's your business. But that's part of the reason we're in there on our own and choose to take on the headaches of being a business owner. And number three, we want freedom of time. Because I know one of the you know, one of the things a lot that comes up is I just never get to take a vacation. Well, I on my schedule every year, from the very from January this was in when I was in practice, my wife would schedule out for vacations a year.
From the from January, those vacations would be prepaid before we took them, meaning the flights, the hotel everything. So we were doing now I was able to do that, because I built my business to where even when I wasn't there, it ran it made money. So right now for those doctors that don't have an associate, you would have to take smaller vacations. So instead of it being a week or 10 days, it may be you know what, we're going to take a little three day break, that's fine. But do it every quarter. And then and then do it to where you can see the same number of visits. The other thing that I teach doctors to do is, you really you really shouldn't be in your practice working in it five to six days maximum for so I was able to do a quarter million dollars a month, four days a week in the practice. So someone thinks they need to be there more. It's just you're wrong. your schedule is not tight, your inefficient. So everything efficiency wise if I'm to grow, and I'm to help the the masses in my community, that I have to educate the masses, and if I try to do that one on one, and someone comes in and they're not a fit, I took an hour of their time an hour of my time when I could have taken that same hour and bit in front of 20 people, or even two people was better than what?
Justin Trosclair 23:10
Right. Yeah, I'm curious, real quick. What's the best day to take off Fridays Mondays?
I teach people to work their tails off Monday through Thursday, Monday through Thursday. Now now as as an entrepreneur, so so when I was growing, and I was building my practice, I was in the practice three days a week because I that's all I needed to be to handle the people I need it don't. And again, what what you'll hear from practice management companies, well, you need to be there Friday and Saturday to handle everyone's needs. That's total BS horrible. I mean, look, to prove that wrong. My practice was so busy, that I had to schedule people two to three weeks out. And when we said we have an opening Wednesday at two o'clock it was taken, well wait a minute, they can only come in on Fridays. Now they keep on a Wednesday, just like any other day, they come that time. So So here's the way it works. Initially, as you start looking to build your practice as an entrepreneur, not practice management, not not technician. And when I say technician thinking of it this way, a lot of doctors think that they're the ones that have to work on their patients. That's kind of like a chef wanting to open up a restaurant and saying, Well, I'm a really good chef, I came to court on blue. So I will be successful in a restaurant business. That's so far from the truth. Most chefs, if they go into the restaurant business, they'll lose their shirt, what they do is they they find an entrepreneur to run the business if they want to cook. Yeah, right. But the ideal thing is, is look if I if I'm a really good painter, and I can paint a house, well, if I start a painting company, I'm not going to be paint houses. That's ludicrous. I'm going to find painters, but chiropractors like to be the painters. And it's okay, I get it. I like to see patients I'm good i'd but to grow your business over time. So one else has to be the painter. So when you start becoming an entrepreneur, you may be in the practice four days a week seeing patients on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you're going to be working in your practice until you get to a certain level and then Nope, don't have to work on Sunday that Nope, don't have to work on Friday, and then or Saturday. So pretty soon, you're working Monday through Thursday, and you have a three day weekend. And that doesn't take long to get there. But here's the other nice thing. Your team gets a three day weekend, they get refreshed, they get to take little three day weekends, every week, when they come back, they're ready to work hard. You can get all the people you need in your practice in four days. Hands down, you don't we're not talking about trying to see 300 patient visits a week number one, in my opinion,
is just wrong. I did it, you're not serving anyone. Don't believe them this, that you can really handle someone's health with a two minute adjustment and have 60 minutes walked into your practice and saw what you were doing. You would be hammered big time by by the media and everyone that this doctor is lining people up and spend in three minutes with them. And that's not care in my opinion. Some people they do it, they justify it because because it's a direct contribution to their income. But the fact of the matter is, you wouldn't want someone watching you that you want to spend some time with them. And some time can be spent in group classes. You don't have to do one on one even in the practice. But are you offering the client everything they need? They do they need nutrition? Are you offering to Tim, do you have classes set up the structure? Or do they know exactly how their size is there? Do you understand how to use supplementation nutraceutical some things like things like this isn't included in the program that the patients getting on? So you have to look at everything that they're getting and identify? Am I giving them everything you need? And if you think that the only thing they need for full wellness is a chiropractic adjustment, don't need anything else, I can't help you.
Justin Trosclair 27:05
So that would definitely be a client that you're you're definitely wouldn't really want to fit with you as those. All I do is adjust. And that's it.
I don't I don't I believe differently. I believe that now I look, you might focus on the carpet part. I'm a big chiropractic fan. That's what I do. I get adjusted three times a week. But that's not all there is to help you can adjust an Atlas and think someone's going to get healthy when they're eating donuts. It's not going to happen. Yeah, I there's it's not a miracle cure. So I like clients that see the whole wellness that want to expand and help people whole. Now, they may say I get it. But all I want to do is focus on the adjustment part, if as long as the patient understands that that's what they're getting. Right? And you're clear, you're transparent. I'm okay with that. That's a different conversation. That's another conversation. But if you're convincing the panel, that that all the health they ever are going to need. Is this, what's been brainwashed into your head that an atlas adjustment is going to correct every disorder you have in your body. That's quackery, I'm sorry. And that's why other doctors look at our profession and think, are you kidding me. And when you start dealing with enough chronic conditions, you're going to realize that nutrition has a huge impact. All those other things that we have to work with our clients on that most chiropractors already know, and if they don't know, won't take much effort to get that education. They're already well above what most of the, you know, a lay person is.
Justin Trosclair 28:39
Now would you say that some of these clients, they want to do what you're saying to get out of the business, take more vacations, they want to hire an associate, but they can't even afford to get the associate because they don't have enough clients coming in. They're probably what's happening is they're leaving right out the back door. So there's that. So when they came in for to get the associate, what do you have? What kind of advice do you have for the type of people to put those systems in place? Or is that kind of what you're doing as well,
that's just looks like this. When when anyone comes to us, the first thing we look at is what's your forte, okay, you have a 40 year for tech. And that for right now. Maybe I do chiropractic adjustments. Okay, that's the port. So that's what we have to start with. We can't step outside of it until we build it and solidified. So let's say that the doctor is a single doctor, single practitioner, and the main income is adjustments. Okay, great. Let's start there. Now, you can't afford to get anyone else. In fact, you only have a front desk. And that's it. Alright, so when I started back in practice back in 2005, it was me for the first couple of months. And then I hired a front desk. So it was me and a front desk for the first year. The first year I did $363,000 in cash. That's impressive. Okay, what do people do people? Ok. So again, these are business strategies that are anyone can learn. It's not like, I'm the best doctor. I'm not. I'm good. I'm real good. But I'm a very, very, very good businessman, entrepreneur. So I didn't hire an associate for probably three years. So I went for 363 to 582, 750,
it wasn't Intel. I surpassed that to where I was collecting an average of about 75,000 80,000
a month that I hired my first associate. Now I'm not saying you have to wait that long. But if we can get you to say like, Look, it's by I'm by myself here, I'm collecting $25,000 a month, that's fine. Let's get you to a point to where to where we're up to maybe 35 or 40. And then we can look at her and associate. But we can collect the $40,000 in a three or four day workweek easy. No problem,
Justin Trosclair 30:53
Okay. And the other things to that, that we're not getting into right now. But when someone comes to your office, you want to start transitioning out of the just pay per visit, people hate that they hate pulling out their credit card every time and getting crunched on their credit card. It's, it's a lot less painful for someone to upfront understand. What is it? What's my goal? Can you get me there? What's my responsibility? What can I expect in lifestyle changes? What's the time period? What's my investment doctor? It's it's x months, it's $3,000. We got you. Okay, now I'm clear, I can make the decision, is that a fair value exchange? Well, I'm going to be able to walk again, I'm going to be able to pitch with my son letting pitch to me, I'm going to be able to start exercise and play golf again and probably lose 20 pounds. That's a fair deal. Let's move. So now I can make plans to handle that $3,000. And everything's done. So if I get a supplement, it's been taken care of if I get a therapist, but so that's the first thing we want to start looking at, right. And that's the ethical way to do things. If that's not being done up front, you're just you're just pulling that personal law. And if all sudden you get to a point three months down the line or not where they are and you tell them it's going to take another three months, they're going to be they're going to be pissed. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 32:16
it's a budget, it's a budget issue at this point for them
yet, once you just let me know a front be transparent up front. So if you think about this, when you start adding things, so the chiropractor that's just doing adjustments, do you know how easy it is for them to actually just bring in something as simple as a little mini detox. It's so easy. And everyone that comes in their office needs to clean up their house. So you could add something very simple. And there's companies like as I'm a Gen out there that have like a like a detox package that will cost the doctor maybe a couple hundred bucks. But But you putting a couple of classes together and educating about it and putting the supplements in, you gotta probably a 700 750
dollar product. So you add that to everything else are getting, is that going to benefit the patient? Yes. And if you're not doing it, I will assure you absolutely. Sooner or later that patients going to come to you and said, Oh, hey, I did this great detox, and I'm on this nutritional plan. Oh, well, who's doing that? What Dr. Down the street? Well, seeing him because you didn't offer it to me. So whatever you're not offering the person I can promise you. This whole movement toward function, they call it functional medicine don't like that name. Let's just call it practice. Because Because proactive health includes everything from helping the person detox, helping them exercise, helping them get off the crap, helping them change their diet, bringing supplements and whole food plant sources, these types of deals. That's the movement. And more and more doctors, I can tell you this, half of our clients are medical doctors that are doing this. So they already have these people. And it's you're a chiropractor and you're not offering the services, you're just start going by, because they're going to find another chiropractor that is that's got more entrepreneur mindset communicates does group education. And, you know, we're almost in every city right now in the United States. And this is a good thing for for doctors that practices way because the more doctors that are out there in the public, letting people know that you've got a choice, you don't have to depend on medicine, you don't have to sit back, we can empower you. That message is taking the average maybe 10% of people that see chiropractors, and that will message will take it up to 15 to 20 to 30 to 40. So the more doctors you have in your community that are practicing the way that busy your practice will become. But if you're not doing it, if you're not participating, they'll find the doctors that are so now instead of your average customer, you're your client, your your your patient, instead of that being a 1500 dollars worth of adjustments, you have now something that they see I can get the whole thing from you, from you, Dr. Justin, I can get the whole thing from you. And and it's it's 3500 or 4000, whenever they will gladly invest it. So it's pretty easy for us to take a practice from $25,000 to 40 5060.
And as little you know that our average client doubles or triples their practice within the first year. And this is by doing these simple things. It's not rocket science,
Justin Trosclair 35:33
so they can find a product that they stand behind. If they don't like as I'm a Gen or some other products. They're like Well, I don't really believe in that like okay, well you need to find a product that you believe in, then you can stand behind because my questions he was the what their doctors I think that would say I'm not a good salesman, you sound like someone who could, you know, sell really anything if you want it to. So for the doctors are like I'm not good at sales. I've never been good at selling vitamins. You have the training to help.
So here's here's what to say that in first, let me answer your first question. We don't tell anyone how to practice. That's not a business, okay? And so we don't tell you how to practice, we help you take what you want to do, and turn it into a business. So I'm not going to tell you what supplement company I'm not gonna tell you. If you do if you do Ivy's, if you do p PMS, if you do acupuncture, if you I don't care, if you put rocks on people, I don't care, I'm going to because I don't know everything that you know, and what you do. And if you're getting results, I'm going to help you get better results. Okay, so if you are in a business, if you're in practice, this is a business correct? for any business to succeed, do you have to have an exchange of trade course? Okay, so what's the exchange of trade, you're gonna have to make a decision. So as a doctor, you're going to be trading services, and products. So as a chiropractor, for example, part of your trade, is your service, chiropractic adjustment, part of it, maybe therapy, part of it, maybe products, whether it's supplements, or, or what have you were, you know, pain relief creams, whatever that might be, okay, what are you going to trade it for? Are you going to trade it for them to clean your office? Are you going to trade it for perhaps they're in business and they have a lawn care, you going to trade it for that? Are you going to trade it for the common exchange, which is money. So whatever, you're going to make the trade, you're already in the sales business, you're already doing it, it's just that if you're used to insurance, you don't have to talk about it as much because it's free. It's free, which means there's no value by the way, okay. But the insurance model, unless your heads in the sand is going by by it's not going to get better. And right now, insurance is paying chiropractors, I don't know what 45 I've been out of it for so long. All I knows most of that fully depend on insurance, they might be paying their bills, but I can assure you 90% of them aren't going to be any, any position to retire with any kind of real income. So we're gonna have to change that model. So we're going to have to learn to communicate, we know that most doctors are uncomfortable with it. Because they because they don't know how to do it. And they think they have to sell the truth of the matter is, if you learn to communicate the logic and what you do, and you're passionate about what you do, and you believe in what you do, they to invest in themselves, there isn't going to be what we consider a sales piece, we're not going to teach you sales tactics, we're going to teach you logical communication. So for example, when someone comes down and becomes a client with FTC, we don't have to twist arms, we don't have to sell. In fact, I make it very clear to them exactly how we're going to take them through so they can see the logic. So the majority of them gotta say, why would I not move forward? Because when a patient comes into your office, they're coming in with a certain amount of fear. And that fear is I don't want to keep living this way. It's it's interrupting my life now it's your job to find out what's what the disruption That's right. So so their fear is to continue living this way and where it's going, or the other fear is, okay, I'm going to make a financial investment will I get the return and I'm gonna be held accountable. So when they get to the point of seen enough hope and faith, that the financial investment and accountability is a lot better place of fear because it's almost an anxious fear kind of like an excitement, fear, compared to the fear of staying the same. They're going to make that investment and thank God that they're able to make it with you. Let me give an example. I had a chronic low back can addition I was I was a bodybuilder fears. I was a horse, equestrian jumper and all this stuff. So I've damaged my body a lot. my low back got to a point to where it was excruciating. It was a 10. Probably four days out of seven. It was interrupting my life to where I lost 20 pounds. I couldn't play ball with my son. I'm all these things that we see. So I was miserable. And I did everything. chiropractic decompression, acupuncture, cryotherapy. I don't know there's anything I didn't do. And I wasn't going to do surgery, because I just knew that that's not the answer. And I found I found a guy, Dr. KEVIN POWELL, out of Tyler, Texas. And he he came up with, he did a lot of research because he did a lot of back surgeries. And he realized they're not working. They're just not eight out of 10 long term not happening. And he discovered it wasn't the mechanical part that was created problems. In other words, when he was dissect, and he would go in and there would be a disc bulge, he could put pressure on the nerve and not get a lot of response. It was only when there was an inflammatory component with him that he had the response, a source inflammatory component coming from, it's coming from leakage of the disc material. So he said if I seal the desk, we get rid of the pain. So he came up with technology using a biological to seal that disk. So when I contacted their office, they immediately sent me 20 names. I didn't ask for yes more 20 names of people to call think about the confidence in this right but be used reviews where the top now go to a surgeon site and see if you get that you won't see the reviews you won't see it nothing, right. So So I look at these I start calling people down this chart. Every one of them called me back if I didn't get a hold up because I didn't get a hold of most rich, they call me back and apologize. I'm sorry. I'm just gonna get back to you. You've got to understand what I where I was where I am now. This procedures 25,000
interested uncovered? Okay. 25,000. Think got it done, because then it would be 150. And then you'd still have a $25,000 out of pocket. So so every one of them most of these people how to get alone, having a little and they said that do it again. And
Justin Trosclair 42:15
that's a lot of trust. Because people don't normally have that kind of money just hanging around.
They don't but but but their lives were devastated. Thank god Kevin pals. It came along and invested years of his life. And I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars to get patents and everything else. Because some people go well, it's a 30 minute procedure. How could it be $25,000 guys stop. If he wasn't around my back is I have no problems with my back today. Justin. I invested the money. It was the best investment I ever made. In fact, right before getting on with you. They sent me a server that that I just literally filled out about how happy I am. And I'm going to go back and get my neck duck. So so this is my recent for you. Yeah, so my point is this. The It was $25,000? Not for the biologically put my desk? Not for the 30 minutes, not for the room. No, it was $25,000 to get my life back. I don't really care how we got it done. Okay. And in fact, if he would have told me the procedures, five minutes, and I can do it right now $25,000 What do I care? What I rather have? Well, you know, what, can you cut my back open and spend like an hour so I can feel I can get my money's worth. And chiropractors have a tendency to try to justify their fee by how much crap they give someone how many adjustments how many this, they don't care, they don't want to come to your office three times a week, they'd rather see a chiropractor that's so damn good, that they can see them once a week. And because of all the other things that they put into the structured with their diet, anti inflammatory diet, and all these other things, because think about it. So many, many apps, we take these x rays, we see all these damage disk. And we think that if we correct those is going to be okay. Like what, wait a minute, they're not hurting there. And then sometimes they do so Why? Well, because of inflammation. So if you don't handle the inflammation, there's still have this long degenerate probably still going to have pain. So if I can reduce the amount of time with them, and and and ensure my outcome and help them with inflammation, they're willing to invest 234 times with me than the chiropractors that's justifying their fee. By Well, I need to see a 45 times. What do you need to see him 45 times? Or is that how you're going to make your income?
Justin Trosclair 44:34
Right? You already kind of made a comment. It's on his me two months, you got a two month investment. So much time it's going to take I didn't tell you was gonna take you 36 visits, I just said give me two months.
Oh, yeah, I think about this, that's when you go cash. You don't have to apply apples apples like okay, by just for the fuses you don't have to. Because if I if I if I have a structure together, thinking about it this way. And this is in this is real. Here's the old way of doing report, chiropractic patient comes in, right, the prospect comes in, you take an X ray, and the practice management teaches you, okay, show them the spine, show them that their curve isn't this curve that they have this degeneration there in stage three. So that's going to take daily for two weeks, three times a week for this two times a week. Where's the science in that? I haven't found it yet. I have the research, Justin, I haven't. So So again, 60 minutes is in the room watching this do this. So they go to chiropractor a? And he says okay, yeah, you're 50 years old, you're in stage three, oh, my God, you have a straight neck, I get to put a curve at it with By the way, most of these chiropractors don't take their expiration show beautiful curve. And so that's going to take 36 visits, then they go down to chiropractor be 60 minutes. And he says kind of the same stuff. But he says 44 adjustments, then they go to see and he says 60 so they're all different. And if we take an X ray, at the end of all the procedures, you and I both know that next not gonna look that much different. So why did we even base our our goal on the neck? Who cares? They don't? What does the patient come in for? I can't sleep at night, I got headaches. Every time I turned my neck, I got pain running down my arm, I'm not able to train, I've gained 15 pounds. Here's what we're going to do. Okay, Justin, we took some films. Yeah, there's some problems, we see it. Now at 45 years old. Justin, we see some degeneration here, I expected to see that Justin, that's not abnormal. I wish it wasn't there. But unfortunately, as we get older, somewhere in here, now there's a couple of areas here, Justin, that are a little bit worse than we'd like to see. Now, I think if we do things right, not only can we you know, get your goals of being able to get that that arm back and help you work out again, that's our goal. So my goal isn't to try to make a perfect spine out of this because I can't and no one else can either. But I think we can turn the turn the damage back some and get function back now. Don't know exactly how often I need to see you right now because I haven't adjusted one time, Justin, I don't know either you're going to move. But I can tell you from experience, from your age, what your goals are and the amount of damage in your spine, I need you to give me four months. Work with me for months. And and and I think we can get you to that point. Now. I might see you more often up front, I might need to see a couple days in a row maybe three times a week. But the more that you follow through with my recommendations on this anti inflammatory diet, because you know, you told me that sometimes it's there. And sometimes it's not. Well, the spine looks exactly the same when the pains there and when it's not. So we know there's an inflammatory component. So if you do the exercise Johnson, and you eat the way I'm going to say you won't have to see me as often during those formats. And we'll do some will do some mid level reports will do some Rexam, see where we're at. So I want to tell you is everything we need to do to get you to get us to our goal in four months, I'm going to include in your program, so you don't have to worry about it. There's going to be some classes that we're going to educate, there's going to be adjustments, there's going to be some therapy, there's going to be some supplements, everything's included, Justin. And that's these 30 $600.
Now, which case would you rather have 60 minutes in the room? The first concert chiropractor or the way that I just did it? The way you do? It does sound good? The way I did it? Is it logical? Yeah, so different. Is it truthful? Do I know how often a lead if I adjust someone, and I can't move them? Does that mean that I have to adjust the more often it may. But what about every time I just some they if they inflamed and they spasm up, I can't stick to a daily schedule. So it's just Same thing with a personal trainer saying Do you want to compete in the show? Great. I don't know how often I'm going to need to train you yet. It's going to depend on your your age, your record Corporation, how quickly you over train your training sessions with me may only be 30 minutes, because if I go to 40, it may be a retraining. And the same thing with the care. So So don't pretend that you have a magic crystal ball. And you know exactly how many adjustments and all that other stuff. Now if you're in the insurance model, you still going to have to kind of follow that a little bit. Because you have to you have to you have to build insurance company, that's a different deal. And we can talk about a hybrid plan and a hybrid practice. But every time
Justin Trosclair 49:27
that's an ethical dilemma to though, saying, if you know the person's like, man, I should really give this guy a week's break. And you know, I have but it's Monday. And that's a whole lot of visits that he could have been in again.
So now you're not treating the person to take care of the person. You're treating them so you can make a buck. And it's okay to make a buck. We got to the same practice. But if you did your program, right, I didn't pay Dr. pasa for series of visits. I said, I agree. And I trust you to allow my back to feel good. You tell me what that means. It means one treatment. Dr. Webb, I'm with you. Here's my $25,000. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 50:05
That's amazing. Good job. I'm glad they work too, though.
Yeah, well, we spend a lot of time together. If you don't mind. I'm just actually like, just a couple more questions, and we'll let you get back to your day. Okay. Do you have any influential guys like philosophy or marketing or copywriting any of these big influential books that's really shaped your view on business and how you coach?
I read the E myth years ago. So So Gerber, that was, that was one book that I highly suggest anyone read Michael Gerber's e myth, because it helped me understand you don't have a real business until you have organization run your business. So give an example, in in freedom, practice coaching, all the C level exec positions in my company or field, okay, I'm the founder, I'm the visionary. But I'm not I don't. I mean, it's my company. I'm the premier shareholder, but I'm not the CEO. I don't want to be the CEO. I'm a good CEO. But I went and found a CEO that's run huge companies, because I'm taking my company to the gazelle, I'm really moving this company. So if if I can find since I'm the primary shareholder, if I can find a better CEO than me, why would I not do that? Because the better CEO is, the better my company's going to grow. Plus, if I'm not the CEO of my business, nor the CEO, or the CFO, or any of those other deals, if I decide to go leave, and go spend a month in Spain with my family, my company still grows, and I still get my paycheck. So the email helps you understand over time as a doctor, as long as I'm the only that is if there's no one else that serves my patients. And it's just me, you'll never have a true business. Now, if you like seeing patients, but you don't have to, that's the that's the goal. So when I was in practice, I didn't have to see them. But if I said, you know what I would want to get in, I want, I want to start seeing some patients again, I get enjoy it, but I don't have to. So when I go skiing with my family, I can call in the morning and say, I remember the first time that I took a trip with my family. And I had the office cover, we hadn't associated everything. And I was going to see is it going to work? Is my business going to make money when in doubt, because because doctors, they don't take vacations because they can't afford the vacation. They don't take vacations because they can't afford the time off. I so I so at one o'clock, I'm eating lunch with my wife and I said, I'm going to call the office and I called offices a god give me the number. Give me the rundown for this morning. She said I think you'll be happy. Dr. Webber. It's 17,000 in the morning, yeah, they're not there. Okay, so I knew I looked at my wife and I said, we made it, we made it, we've got a real business now. And I took that. And that's how the practices that we coach, that's exactly how we teach them to get to over time. It's not overnight. And if you like to proceed patients fine. But get yourself to a point where you don't have to. So that and then when it comes to copywriting, I'm a marketer. I'm a copywriter, Claude Hopkins, Dan Kennedy, Roy Williams, these are all the top authors. I don't think I think Dan Kennedy learned from Claude Hopkins, to be honest with you. And I think I remember him saying that one time. Roy Williams is an awesome one. But I learned to market and copyright. Whereas most people, you know, they they think that marketing needs to be fancy. They think it needs to be professional. This is the furthest thing from the truth. And that's how you go broken marketing, trying to be professional and trying to please people, you have to learn to market to communicate effectively. And sometimes that marketing looks like whoa, that's going to get some attention. Yep. supposed to.
Justin Trosclair 53:52
So I'm assuming you have mentors yourself then. Right?
I've always had coaches, I still have coaches. In fact, in today, three weeks, I'm going up. I just invested into the titanium group, Dan Kennedy, there's 14 of us that were asked to be in the group. So I invested myself and and, and I'll just be frank with you. I mean, the titanium group for one year, we we meet three times, it's $33,000. So I practice what I preach. I've coached with Dan Sullivan of strategic coaching. I always have at least one business mentor. And then I have coaches for other things. I play music, I play piano guitar, I have a coach for my for my piano, taking flying lessons course I had to coach for that.
So I I've never taken on. I in fact, I got back into competitive bodybuilding a couple years ago, I got a coach for that. So anytime that you want to take something seriously, if you don't find someone better than you, you're not taking it seriously, you have to learn from people that have succeeded at a much higher level, or you can't ever, ever consider getting to a level. So you know whether you're serious about something not. And I can ask you do you have a coach? If you say no, you're just you're not? Right.
Justin Trosclair 55:11
Somebody's got a lot of things going on in your life. How do you think, a morning routine or like a lunch routine that ground you and excites you for the rest of the day? How do you stay focused. So I,
my life is run by my calendar. And a lot of people think that that's restrictive. And it's actually the ultimate freedom soldiers. My, for example, I have a beautiful home and I have a beautiful study in my home. I've never gone in my study except to go see my wife or something, I absolutely will not do work. No, I separate activities. So when I'm home, I'm home. If I'm in the office, I'm going to office. So I whatever I'm doing, I'm 100% there in the now. So if I'm doing a discovery day with clients, I'm 100% there, I don't ever have to think about anything else because my calendar says here's where you need to focus on a percent of your time. So the when I go to bed at night, put my phone on airplane mode, so nothing comes through during the night. And I don't take it off airplane mode until I'm done with my morning routine. So I get up in the morning, I go upstairs to a guest room. I get on a inversion table decompression, I do some AB work, I decompress. I stretch, I do a little bit of roller work, I go downstairs, I have a detox drink that a drink first thing in the morning, before I even start anything and then you know, have breakfast and and and it gets it to work. On the way to work. I pull up the podcast, my favorite podcast is Mike Dillard hands down.
I have I've been able to learn more on that podcast from some of the top entrepreneurs. And I've listened to a lot of podcasts. And I just don't think anyone compares. So so I don't waste time drive into work. It's about a 20 minute drive. So I'm on my podcast, I get to work, I walk in the office Pam, my executive assistant steps in my office and zoom account or even though it's on my my computer just points out like for example, this is not a normal event on my calendar. So she said you have a podcast at 930 as a reminder. And so we fold it up, pull the Skype up, get ready. So I have activity. So there's only two times during the day that I pull up my emails. Other than that I don't pull them up because that's there's there's no time for them. So every single 30 minutes is is is dictated for an activity. So at night when I go home, I don't have to think about did I get everything done. And I don't have to think about what I'm doing the market is on my calendar. And I train every day at at one o'clock. And so some of those days are for training other days or for just like role stretching recuperation Kappa deals. So I'm very structured. And I and I do not waste time. I'm 55 years old. And I don't have time to always. And I learned some of these lessons later in life. So if you listen his podcast, if you want to be successful, you can get more done. I know that I get more done in a week than what most people get done in two months sounds like just because because of efficiency and structure. But I also have more freedom than most people. Not next week. But the following week, I'm taking eight days to go up to Park City and ski with my family. And I will not do any business during the time. None. I won't even check in.
Justin Trosclair 58:22
It's my family time and you set it up with all these, like you said, they'll see people you don't have to
my business works on its own. Now if something comes up and they need to go to hold mid course they can get ahold of me. But outside of that I don't have calls. I don't have anything. It's my son, my wife, my friends, and I'm going to ski hard and have a good time. And you're still skiing. So that's that's really exciting to the surgery work to
even call it a surgery, I got two little pin holes where you stuck a needle were asked up, went to the disk and just fill it up with with a biological favorite, favorite and press Robin. So there was no caddy. Wow. That's a
Justin Trosclair 58:57
whole nother conversation to have that at just this amazing. Me too.
Justin Trosclair 59:02
well. Mr. Well, thank you so much. Dr. Webb,
just Yeah, really, I had Justin, I enjoyed this. And anytime I get on and help educate and you know, put my two cents out there to help. My goal is to help every doctor that wants help. We got to save the private practice. My goal is to disrupt healthcare in this country. We're on a good push right now. And we've got a lot of other people we work with outside of FPC that are in the same place trying to show doctors Hey, you can you can make it private practice. And you can have thought and you can offer the patient so much more we can really we can really empower people. Oh, how can people get ahold of you? You know, it's a good question. Because we all have our sites and every everything since people in certain places. So for right now to 104606476. So if they want to say hey, I'm interested in discovery day, great. Watch this webinar first to make certain it's a fit and so forth. And so we can lead them to the webinars. Well, well, you can
Justin Trosclair 1:00:00
contact Dr. Webb at the number he just provided. But a better way would be to learn more about Dr. Bob's practice consulting, group freedom, practice coaching, and their approach to helping doctors thriving practice, go to F Pc masterclass.com. That's Frank, Paul, Charlie, Master class.com. You also find their direct contact number there to answer any of your questions. And Pamela is a real treat that deal with she was she's handled all of our communication back and forth, and just just a great person. So
she it's nice that it?
Justin Trosclair 1:00:34
Yeah. All right, guys. All right. Thank you so much. And you have a fantastic job, buddy. All right.
Dr. Webb, thank you so much, and gave us so much to think about so much to try to implement and reevaluate what we're doing, what we can do more of I do hope people will take advantage of your link, and explore what you offer more, what a great guarantee. And I'm glad that you're back is feeling much better. How cool is that? Thank you for reminding us that we're not a commodity and we have a value and the patients have an issue that we can provide value for. And we should never forget that regardless of what our profession is. They're coming to us because they have an issue that they can't solve on their own and we can solve it for them. And we can do that and we can also get paid for it. So notes can be found at a doctor's perspective, net slash one eight. Stay tuned for the travel tip.
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travel tip today is just finding cute you know in America we're definitely now with gallon size and milk the big you know half gallon but in school you know you had the little pine sometimes they gave you the little bag of the time just a little carton well here and where I'm at. All we have are the little cartoons or the bags. So 250 milliliters 500 milliliters that's it. If you're in a big city you can find like a half gallon or I guess that's a leader two liters of milk but just these little bags are you going that the refrigerator so I don't know the bag itself is like really fancy, I guess on the inside and I don't know much about dairy ensures pasteurized and or whatever. But it still tastes like milk. It's just these little cute bags. You know, three sips and you're done you like I guess well, I'll just drink one and be satisfied. No gigantic cups here. That's it. Just the fun travel tip today.
We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor's perspective. net to see all the references from today's guests. sincere thank you in advance. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor's perspective.
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