Justin Trosclair 0:02
Episode 73 bad business practices do it better. I’m your host, Dr. Justin trust clear and today we’re Dr. Paul Goodman, D amp D perspective.

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Everybody, I’m so happy we got a dentist on the show, can I get you this guy, there’s so much not only is he specializing in dental implants, you know, like fake teeth that they screw into your jaw. He teaches people how to do it. And that’s kind of a rare thing because he was just the general dentist. And that was something back then that only have X specialist it but now he’s really good at he’s created this group called dental nachos. And it has become over 9000 people in a very short period of time. And he has some ground rules about like, how it how it works. And a lot of people try to create their own Facebook group these days. And like, man, I can’t get enough followers or like people are being nasty. So we’re going to cover you know those types of things, some of the dynamics and what to do about it. It’s really a fun part of the interview. And then we go into talking about if you don’t have value for what you’re selling for what you’re providing, how are you supposed to ask people for that money, especially if you think it’s expensive, it’s more of an investment, we dive into those types of questions. And then lastly, he is a broker for buying and selling dental practices. And we get him to talk about two tips for the buyer to tips for the seller, and also a great way to maximize your life when you’re married before kids. So keep listening all the way to the end. It’s a shorter episode today. All the show notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective, net slash seven, three. Let’s go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China and Pittsburgh. We got a great guest today. He’s a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine. He’s did his residency and hospital fellowship at the Albert Einstein Medical Center. He has an amazing Facebook group called dental nachos. He’s the founder of rising Dennis study club Rittenhouse consulting. He He’s a broker for dental practice sells, teaches implants. This guy does it all. Dr. Paul Goodman. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Justin. Thanks for having me. Really excited to talk to you today. Oh, me too. It. There’s so many topics that you’re good at so late. bringing it to what we need to talk about is gonna be difficult for me, but dental nachos. We’ve got a chiropractic group called Cairo sushi.

Unknown 2:32
I like that.

Justin Trosclair 2:33
Yeah. So how did you come up with just the funny name? And then what can people expect in this group in Washington join.

Unknown 2:40
I mean, the origin story is really based on my love of nachos. And I was I when I was a little kid. It’s a chubby little kid. So I always wanted to go to Mexican restaurants, because they would give you chips, right, we sat down to my parents would always ask where you want to eat. And I wanted immediate gratification because I always felt there was too much lag time between ordering and getting your food. So I love doing these restaurants. And one in New Jersey was called Castilla PETA, traditional corporate Mexican place. And then I also you know, thought that waiting tables is exactly what I want to do. I thought, you know, myself, even though I was like 10 years old, I’m like, this server has multiple tables, and he can make it back in that day, probably guys thought, Oh, he makes $7 meets table that’s 20 bucks an hour. That’s pretty good. So actually, then why not working as a server Castilla Peter, when I was 19, and I’m 40 now, so when I 19 year old guy metabolism, and I worked out all the time. So when I work there, they would let you eat as many free nachos as you want. And it was easy. We had these drawers filled with those free chips. And you know, it’s you know, now corporate places get a bad rap for the how they make food. And I’m sure it wasn’t that the healthiest of places, but they would make their tortilla chips fresh all the time with drawers and drawers of them for us to eat. So when you get a basket for the table, you just need some yourself. So I love doing that. And I just you know, if sort of obsessed with nachos, and now even at 40 I love going to Mexican restaurants and as always be like, people always enjoy themselves at a Mexican restaurant. I like sharing thing. I like times, you know, I like Margarita. So I thought

Unknown 4:14
it was a Facebook group called dental hacks, which is still in existence has like over 20,000 members and I was a member of that. It’s kind of amazing how these groups have exploded, that was January of 2017. I said, you know, I’ll make a group for myself with a few hundred people to talk about implant cases. And then big Seinfeld fan, yada, yada, yada, like a year later, there’s almost, you know, 9000 people in the group. So nachos was a combination of me, which is, you know, broker, dentist, teacher do a lot of different things. And then I also thought, you know, the group, sort of mantra is, you know, share, you can be kindly, disruptive, but you can, you know, don’t attack people just attack their ideas. So that’s been, you know, something I’ve been promoting in the dental space, because I don’t know how chiropractic Arabic Dentists have a tendency to not be too nice to each other.

Justin Trosclair 5:02
Why is that I’m glad we’re not alone.

Unknown 5:05
The problem with that is dentist tend to be very competitive in school, they create this weird competition in school. What’s nuts is everyone leaves and goes into all areas of the country, and then goes all your country and then they’re able to practice in their own town. They don’t know any other dentists but they never talked to them. And it’s a very strange, strange thing here where dentists will feel competitive with the guy down the street, they don’t even know the guy down the street. And I at least want to make dental nachos about sharing learning, being normal to each other. We have a catchphrase that so dentist which is like, you know that so dentist is there was a show called that so Raven back in the day. Yeah. That that’s so dentist is not a compliment. It’s a it’s a it’s it’s that dentist acting in a way a normal person would not act, whether it’s with the job, whether it’s being really cheap, whether it’s wanting to do something themselves, they’re not qualified to do and making things more expensive. So sound like much chiropractors. Yeah, I don’t know, maybe it’s a solitary field, like having a chiropractor. You know, the way it’s set up the dentist, you know, we have a lot of business problems and dentistry right now. Because the solo practice model is not a, it’s not a scalable one. It’s not one where you’re used to buy a lot of equipment and a lot of technology in each location, probably a foolish way to conduct yourself as a business. But dentist, you know, they just can’t seem to get along. So my mission is to make that as get along and be nicer to each other. And it’s going mildly. Okay.

Justin Trosclair 6:44
Yeah, moderators are in full force.

Unknown 6:47
Yes, the work in progress. So

Justin Trosclair 6:50
this is just really interesting, because conference had some of the same things you just said only hash it. And you guys have to spend so much money to build out this dentist feel like either I have to have an associate versus like a partner separate business altogether, but in the same roof to cut down costs.

Unknown 7:05
It transitions. It’s just an archaic model that dentists are very bad with change. So everybody going into these own little homes are a lot of home offices and everybody doing their own thing and a four or five, opera Tory practice, it worked well and probably to the until the early 2000s. But over the past decade, insurances have cut reimbursement, it’s been more expensive to run practices. What Dennis have to know is, it’s just so overwhelming to know, in one place. I use this example all the time. I mean, have you been to any diners recently? Sure. So like, you know, the diner, I mean, the diner is the most insane business model that anyone could think of it but you could be at a diner drunk with your friends at 2am. You could be there with your grandmother at 10am. You could be there at 4pm and someone will order you know grilled cheese and the person next to them or Greek salad and the third person order salmon from Chase and their donors like we will make it all

Unknown 8:00
that is so difficult. Imagine all the things you have to stop back there. And that’s like a general dentist with the know so many things. So one of my catchphrases is dentistry is great, I mean, for a patient to get dental care. We have great technology, a lot of painless things, we do cool digital stuff, we can replace teeth with implants. So dentistry is great. But being a dentist is not so great. Yeah. And that’s a disconnect. And I think society, I mean, it sounds dramatic, but the patient, you want your dentist to be relatively happy, because otherwise smart people won’t want to do it anymore. And I think we don’t want that because, you know, the income for dennis is declining for the first time ever. And that’s very, very rare thing to happen.

Justin Trosclair 8:46
Very interesting. So you guys have to have a lot of systems in place so that it stays cost effective. Do you happen to have a lot of you doing consulting? Are there a lot of places out there that this is how you should market? I mean, does everybody have to do t free teeth cleaning to get somebody in the door or

Unknown 9:05
yet Luckily, but one of the problems is and this is one of my main missions and dental nachos. And I would love to maybe change this somehow. There’s no business training in dental school. So what happens is dental school and I’ve used this and one of my jokes on my group. And because I have a three and a half year old and I am about to have another child so I’m really you know, in the in the total mix of co co producing human beings right now. So that is a daunting task. When you have a child, no one really tells you how to do that either which I have a lot of issue. I have a lot of issues with that. I mean, we spend more time training a Starbucks barista that we do parents. Yeah. So it’s but parent grandparents come aunts and uncles come and people love a new parent, they want to go over Can I help you can I do this, but nobody loves a new dentist, unfortunately. So the new dentist never got any business training. And it would be like teaching, they don’t they leave out how to feed the baby, they lead out how to do business, then they close the door of dental school send you on your way, you can never get back in and say, Hey, you didn’t teach me this. And then you’re in this wild west of dentistry. And it’s just it’s not going well at all. I mean, what dentists are usually very good people. I mean, they really are right, and they want to help people. So when I say it’s not going well, for the time being it’s not really about patient outcomes. It’s more about dentist lifestyle outcomes in the sense where a dentist will take a $500,000 in loans, that Dennis will need a job of $60,000 a year just to pay their loans. And they think Oh, am I going to make $200,000 a year and they sometimes make only half that. So now we have people who’ve given up four or five years of their 20s, early 20s. And they just been a lot of times even there’s no other way to put it dental school is totally misled them. So what

Justin Trosclair 10:52
I’m guessing you’re less than the fan of corporate dentistry and working on a big box chain. It’s what it feels like to me.

Unknown 10:58
Well, it’s interesting as a broker growth over the past two years, I’ve learned a lot of different business models, and a CVS or Walgreens on itself. It’s not a bad thing, right? I mean, it’s it’s the concept is not bad, because you think, Okay, well, I have a bunch of dentist, a bunch of farmers system one place, and we will consolidate. So there’s some good parts of that. However, pharmacist, no disrespect to pharmacist, they do a lot of commodity based things like providing pills and medications to people. So it takes it takes skill. But at the end, they’re giving everyone the bottle and saying go home and use this bottle. in dentistry, you’re doing full contact arts and crafts in somebody’s mouth. So it’s way more technique sensitive. So we’re not training our new dentists Well, in these corporate environments, because we’re telling them to go out there and do and they are not ready. And they don’t know. And they need more guidance. But there’s no real space for anyone to guide them. And I To me, that’s the big problem that yc over the next decade is we’re going to have all these young, new energetic dentist and they’re not going to be trained well enough for their mid 30s. In things that are important,

Justin Trosclair 12:09
right, right. Yeah, I’ve seen some Instagram, I follow some dentists. And they do implants. And some of these videos are super graphic. And I’m just glad I’m not a dentist because that’s just not

Unknown 12:21
see, a lot of dentists feel that way. Sometimes. I mean, the implants, I do love implants, because it is to me that is you’re building something from scratch, you’re giving someone a new to you are changing someone’s life. A lot of times you do these cases for patients where you give them snapping dentures you replaced so that part is great. I mean, that is a technology is awesome. But to go from dental school to being able to do what I do, and I’m not the best at doing it. I’m just a seasoned veteran of it. I love restaurants, obviously, I love food of working in it. It’s just a lot like the Top Chef shows. So someone’s got to be apprentice chef practice, they have to have a chef show and show them. Hey, this isn’t how you chopped onions. This isn’t how this comes out. But those chefs are working shoulder shoulder and the same kitchen. Yeah, dentist spread out everywhere. So there’s nowhere there to give the feedback. And you’ve got me on the phone, my favorite topics. Also, something interesting happens. dentist or dental students are so talked to in such a negative way. And there they are trained in such a way where everything’s wrong. They’ll get out and now’s the time to really get criticism. A lot of the new dentist are very, very reluctant to take criticism. I don’t totally blame them. But then that’s the time to be open to it.

Justin Trosclair 13:39
You’re somebody’s mouth.

Unknown 13:41
Right. So it’s but the there’s not a good training system built in because I was lucky enough to do a residency program and Albert Einstein in Philadelphia, which I loved. And I think being around doctors and Washington ball around bigger, stronger doctors. It showed me like, okay, hey, there’s an older doctor, there’s a medium age doctor, there’s a young doctor, they’re also sharing their own learning. But there was you know, a distinct hierarchy. And I think that system for learning as much better than what Dennis

Justin Trosclair 14:06
that? And when you say I saw on your site, you’ve done like a at least 150 implants. Is that a lot? An implant world?

Unknown 14:14
was when I did it my training. So back then, okay, well, in 2002, it was very, it was very dramatic for a general dentist, not a specialist to learn how to place implants. Okay, so that was a lot for back then. And then I taken that and I trained other general dentists to get started in doing that. Because right now in implants, I love business things. And dentist, maybe chiropractors are the same. They don’t like to hear bad news, even if it’s true. So this would be an example of a dentist. It’s going to snow tomorrow. five inches. I really wish you can tell me it was going to snow tomorrow. Yeah, but the forecast is going to snow five inches. I don’t care. I’m not going to wear my snow boots. And then the next day, they have no snow boots and it’s snowing. So use that example. Because dentists are so emotional. If you give them what they perceive is bad news. They want to look away from it. So this example reason I’m using this example is dentistry as like a big pie chart of services, cleanings, fillings, extractions, root canals, crowns and implants. Another one my favorite food is pizza. So if you think of it like a pizza,

Unknown 15:16
everybody, when they go to get pizza at lunch, you look for the biggest slice, right? Yeah. Like they tried to cut it in evenly. But they’re not machine. So usually, unless you’re on a diet, you’re looking for the biggest slice, well, those slices inside our practices are changing. So procedures like fillings and crowns, those slices are shrinking. Root canals are shrinking, because people are taking better care of their teeth. So for society, that’s good. I mean, you’re a chiropractor, right, Justin? Yeah. So here’s why it’s weird to be a dentist and a chiropractor. Do you hope a lot of people have back problems, I mean,

Justin Trosclair 15:53
only because it goes to my pocket, but I don’t want them to really hurt.

Unknown 15:56
So you have to be a weird person to be a chiropractor, a dentist or a doctor, but especially a dentist or doctor, I’m sorry, especially dentist or chiropractor, who have to make money on procedures. So you go to your dentist, right? And they come in and check your team. Like if you have any cavities. So do you want that dentist If I was your dentist and they said Justin’s ready for his mouth check? Do you want me to walk in there hoping that you need 10 cavities?

Justin Trosclair 16:21
I really don’t. But

Unknown 16:23
right really makes you feel weird. Because you and but but if I hope if I hope you have a healthy mouth, which is being a good person, I’m going to go out of business. Yeah. So if you Everyone has a healthy back, you’re going to go out of business. So for us, dental implants are this shining beacon of greatness. Because usually people need dental implants, because they have fractured their route, it cannot be saved. They have lost all of their teeth in a situation like a house that’s dilapidated. But you can’t just put paint on it. So that reconstruction with implants is really powerful and positive. Right? I’m looking at it to lucrative so it’s all good patient when team wins dentist, which was very interesting. And I find this in life a lot. When you buy the most expensive thing. I mean, it could be a car, it could be a house, it could be a vacation, it could be closed. Going into it, you have this barrier about it being expensive. Yeah, this is kind of expensive. I don’t have it. But if you notice, you usually never complain about the money again, right? Because it’s one of the best things. So we before we had our daughter with your listeners if their child was out there, and they want to have children, my friend gave me great advice. He said, Take some trips before you have a child because you got to be able to travel again. So we went to Positano and copper Capri. And it was like a $16,000 trip. And at the time, I was like, I’m really stretching this budget. And I you know, I don’t know if I should do this. And now seven years later, my regret is I did not do three more of those trips. Because I can never get that time back. And I’m thrilled I did it. And I don’t regret $1. In fact, I regret I didn’t spend more. And I regret. I didn’t do it earlier. So that’s how people feel about implants, they may get a price tag, 5000, 10,015, 2030

Unknown 18:14
or $60,000 implant cases, I will tell you that in the thousands of cases I’ve been involved with, when the case is completed. No one has buyer’s remorse and the money.

Justin Trosclair 18:25
And these things are showing up to bite apples and everything.

Unknown 18:28
Because it changes your life. It changed your emotion. I was just in an Uber coming back from a lecture that guy that we were talking to Uber drivers, Mrs. two front teeth, he said it makes you feel uncomfortable front of my girlfriend. I mean, what’s that worth? Right? I mean, like his teeth coming out me. So we just have this weird, dysfunctional relationship with money. Because someone asked me if an employee it’s expensive, right? So maybe you’re thinking is I took out your tooth right now Justin, and I can give you a new tooth back. I’ll tell you the start to finish 4800 bucks is that does that sound expensive? It does sound expensive. Sound Effects. But it’s not. Because here I’ll tell you this, let’s say I’m just to say you’re 30 years old, right? You’re 30 you gotta live to be 80. So now you can lift 50 years. So it’s 40 $800 in 2018. So it’s a look, let’s just say let’s just say you live 30. But we were going to use it for 30 years. So you have about 1000 meals a year. So now you’re 30,000 meals of chewing with your 40 $800 to so take 30,000 meals and see what that cost per meal. You know what? $1 per meal is $30,000 10,

Unknown 19:30
you know, 10 cents and meals. 3000. So now we got 17 cents a meal. So does that sound like a better deal?

Justin Trosclair 19:37
Yeah, plus you can smile self confidence.

Unknown 19:39
Smile it plus your other teeth don’t break down cluster other kids. Okay, so dentist do not know how to talk to patients. My big thing is Dennis talk to pay. I do a lot of courses on this. I love doing I want to do more of them. DENTIST talk to patients like other dentist and that’s why they don’t want to do anything. So if I came into you, and I said, Hey, you know, Justin, my back is sore. I’m not as flexible. Because when I do dentistry and you this way how you would be I mean, I don’t know your language. So mechanics do this. It’s like, well, you got a curvature under l six we’re going to do here is we’re going to come over here and do some objects in here. I just wanted to say, Hey, here’s how we’re going to make you less sore, more flexible. We’re going to spend 30 minutes with these dumb down procedures explained it to me like I’m a six year old, like Denzel Washington from the movie Philadelphia. So he was always saying that to the people on the he was the lawyer in that movie. And I love that

Justin Trosclair 20:30
phrase, the human being service.

Unknown 20:33
Human Being service. Yeah, because we just talked to patients like people talk to patients. I mean, I think I learned that being a server. I think I learned that, because I like studying these things. But most dentists, we did a course in California just on Sunday, and I dentist there from dental school to 52 years. So dental school, minus two years in their career to 52 years. And everything in between. and we agreed as a group, that the most challenging part of every case is getting the patient to say yes, for implants, getting to say okay, I’ll do it. So not the treatment planning, not the placement, not to figure out how to do parts and pieces. So I said, Okay, you guys have all told me that getting the patients to see the value in the money. And the time and saying you want to do is the toughest. So I said Who here is taken a course on talking to patients, very few people and take and they’re very few are offered. Right? You know, if you’re a dentist out there, Paul homily, just happened to the same name as I do. He’s like in his probably 70. Now he talks, he lectures on this, and he’s great. But we are not training our dentist on how to get patients to say yes, okay, I’ll do it. And what’s weird is that people say why don’t want to sell things to patients, right? Get over it? Well, it’s here’s the thing, sometimes you’re just selling really good stuff. Like Yeah, has their best interest. What if you’re selling someone a life insurance policy for their family? That’s a good sale? What if you’re selling somebody a Roth IRA? What if you’re selling somebody, a particularly safe car for their family? So the word sell, took in these negative connotations? I don’t really even think of it because to me, it’s not really, it is a sales job. But I think of sell like, Okay, you go to a banana republic, they’re going to sell you some clothes, you already have some clothes, they’re going to tell you these clothes are better than the clothes you have. You know that that’s that to me, you need a pretty good salesperson. With dentistry, you’re you’re kind of just explaining the value and why a person needs this. But if you just say you need it, the PR people very realistic, reluctant. So my wife says, this was a breath Vince Vaughn thing from the breakups, like you need to do the dishes. I do not want to do the dishes, even though I need to do them. So you said, you know if you do the dishes, it’s going to make me feel you know, happier with your lesson. boy does that. Okay, maybe I’ll do the dishes. And did you ever see that movie to break up?

Justin Trosclair 22:47
Because you

Unknown 22:48
want to do the dishes? Like who wants to do the dishes? Right? Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 22:51
yeah, exactly. You know, in chiropractic, we, we had the same kind of scenario where someone’s, we have these bigger treatment plans, or we have like a device that we want to use, but it’s expensive. And you have to convince the patient like, this is where your best, you know, this is going to work, you’re able to play with your kids, you’re going to go golf, and you’re going to do all these things that you couldn’t do, which is why you’re here. And the first thing that will talk about as well as expensive, well, maybe not that bad, maybe it’ll just get better on its own is like you have to inform them like these are why these are the outcomes. And that’s kind of what you’re selling is the outcome,

Unknown 23:22
which is amazing is you’re not much different field. But you know, the problem, the problem is not with the patient, the problem is with the chiropractor. So the chiropractor is putting his own his or her own values on it. And the chiropractors never been trained on how to talk to his patients about this or her patients because I have total confidence in dental implants. And I don’t think they’re expensive. So you cannot sell something that you think is expensive, right? You can sell something that you think that investment. So someone came in after treating your grandmother, and she was going to spend $30,000 on new teeth, I wouldn’t take it lightly, I wouldn’t say, hey, just write me a check for $30,000. So I the word expensive investment or two different things. Expensive the value judgment. investment is a is a phrase that accurately describes what you’re doing. So it’s I talked to these dentists all the time, and I try to do it in a way where they don’t want to throw stale nachos at me. But they keep telling me the patient thinks is too expensive. The problem is they think it’s too expensive. They read right through it. Yeah, that’s what’s interesting is, I’m I’m going to take I’m going to video some of my console someday.

Unknown 24:33
I just treat it like a restaurant, I give them a menu, I tell them what’s on the menu. Not eating is also on the menu. And that’s a literal and bigger thing for dental patients. So I always have this phrase, hey, even if you just I say, this doesn’t work, you know, you’re you’re a young person. So not many young people need implants. But he did, I would say, you know, hey, Justin, I just want to tell you before we start this discussion on on your menu options, even if you decide to do nothing, we can still be friends. The patient laugh because nobody wants to be friends with their dentist, but farms them and I learned that from a great dentist john coys, who’s just awesome. And I get the lecture room with him this summer and affiliate the affiliate dental splash. And that’s going to be just great. I mean, he’s an amazing guy. I’m on part of this whole lecture panel. And he said it start with telling the patient what happens if you do nothing? You could do this too. Yeah. So I would tell how do you do nothing can play with your grandkids can’t bend over? And be Be honest. But be put, I mean, I tell people, we got a responsible fear. Right? mean, if a financial planner said you, it’s no big deal to save for retirement. That’s a bad financial planner. Yeah. If they said, you’re going to be working till you’re 100 that could not that could be irresponsible for Responsible fear is, hey, if you don’t put any money away in your 30s and 40s, you may not have a lot of choices in your 60s and 70s. And if you want to go on vacations, or even just have some time where you can take off if you don’t start now, that’s going to be a problem that’s responsible for you. Yeah. So that that’s kind of how I approach my treatment plan. discussions are menu, everything goes back to the menu food, I always tell them like hey, it’s like a restaurant, a dental restaurant, nobody wants to come here. It’s expensive, blah, blah. But you know, we sell you are we offer you, things that are really valuable for your life.

Justin Trosclair 26:13
And if you’re lucky, will give you a payment plan just so that it’s not like one of us will get 30 grand.

Unknown 26:18
Most people say that me I always just say you know, I’m It’s weird. I’ve never had any real sales training. Maybe I would like to someday I mean, you know, there’s this course Ashley ladder about ethical sales. I it’s a it’s a guy from England, I think I would like to take that guy, but I’m I someone said to me, where must be a $30,000 my instinct as a person is to say, that would be a lot of money for me too, because it would be and I’d say I need to figure out how I could make it work. We have someone or office Katie was going to talk about ways it could work. And dentists are also very judgmental with their words. So I sit directly with show scrubs.

Justin Trosclair 26:56
Yeah, of course.

Unknown 26:57
sash. I love that show. Zach Braff is my favorite actors. And the reason I love that show is that is like he’s constantly talking to themselves. So you’re always talking to yourself. Like you know, I always used as women because it’s a it’s a it’s a funny thing. You know, in Philly, weather’s getting warm out, right? So people start dressing like it’s middle of summer immediately. So you know, my life could be going out with their friend for brunch. And she’s about to approach one of our best friends that are brain saying this. I can’t believe you were that’s gonna be out to alpha for brunch. It’s only 11 o’clock on a Sunday. Why she got up in the morning. I think she’s got to show off and show off a brunch. And then she gets up. This is Oh, hi, Jennifer. Good to see you. Because that’s life, right? You shouldn’t apologize for it. Because my wife, if the words don’t come out of her mouth, she’s a normal person like Zac Brown. You become mean and of noxious and judgmental when the words come out of your mouth. very philosophical. Just and I don’t know where thoughts come from this pretty, pretty deep question. Right? Right. But if you go to visit your friend, I don’t know yet nighttime to see your friend. And you just say that is a dumb outfit. But you’re like, I’m not gonna say that’s a dumb outfit, because that’s going to be a say that’s not a set of way to keep your friendship, right. So with pension, nobody wants to hear that, you know, dentists will wait too many times be judgmental, and not this is what I have for them. They won’t put things on the menu because they don’t think the patient can afford it.

Justin Trosclair 28:16
You got at least the presented.

Unknown 28:17
I just I quit on this podcast and one of the guys from dental hacks or I might I said something that was very meaningful to him. And I’m glad he pointed out, I said everybody deserves the right to say no to the best option. Here’s the thing, if I was going to go buy a car for the rest of my life, I want them to give me an option of a Porsche. Alexis, Bobo a Honda. I don’t want them to look at me the way I dress or the way I am. Or if I have two kids, and say I this guy can’t afford a Lexus. We’re only going to show them a Honda. And that is to me. not the right way to do things.

Justin Trosclair 28:48
Yeah, nobody wants to hear that.

Unknown 28:50
Yeah, so interesting.

Justin Trosclair 28:52
Well, we have a few minutes left. Sure. We can definitely say we can we can always do a round two later. But one of the things that you do is actually buy and sell for help you help people you broker sales. Yeah. Being that we don’t have a lot of time per se. You have like a top tip, maybe a top two tips. If you’re the buyer top two tips, if you’re the seller, things to look out for because it is a it’s a daunting process. I’ve done it. I felt like sometimes like that i overpay, then you go to sell it and you’re emotionally charged about it you like it’s totally worth.

Unknown 29:23
Yes. 30%. That’s all you think. It’s always like, yeah, it’s always like the how attractive is your child? I mean, everyone thinks they’re trapped, Charles track it, but the rest of the world is going to explain to you that not everybody is a supermodel right?

Unknown 29:36
And it doesn’t mean everyone else. So

Unknown 29:40
I’ve learned a lot in this field about dentists and how they think one of the problems is sellers aren’t between 60 and 70. And they’re talking to people between 30 and 40. Right off the bat to separate generations. People who don’t know, one, you know, I always use this joke. Be careful when you make fun of old people, because you’re going to be old. So be careful when you say an older dentist wants a fax or a call. Because one day you’re going to ask for a text message my daughter, dad, he’s going to be like my demo data is for text messages. We send like holograms talking holograms to each other. Like, can’t my dad figure out how to use talking holograms. So that’s right off the bat that communication is it is an issue, then seller has been working in their own little practice forever, and they think is worth a lot more than what it is. And they’ve never even checked. You know, what’s interesting is a seller will look up a stock like Google that he they owned every day, you know, look up the value of Google, which is a bad thing to do. But, you know, say Google is going up, Google’s going down, but they’ll never check into what their practice is actually worth before they sell it a couple years before yourself, here’s my tips. Two years before you sell your practice, you should pretend like you have to sell your practice tomorrow. And you have to get in shape. And I’ll use the example of when the stars go on the red carpet, you want to juice cleanse your practice. So that what that means is everyone’s had a body for let’s say, 50 years, you got to off of the Oscars in two weeks. At two years, you want to look as best as possible. There’s no time for going back and exercising, you have to do things to present yourself in as as cosmetically appealing way as possible. Yeah, clean it up, right? If you have good, don’t spend 10s of thousands of dollars, but spend things that maybe sometimes new waiting room furniture, if it’s got an old couch from the 70s. Learn how your practice management system works. And for sellers get all your documents in order. And that’s for any practice owner because life happens and people unfortunately get injured, they die suddenly they want to move away. And selling a practice is a complex thing. So have all your tax returns in a folder that you have it i’d get it in a digital folder units, Gmail that says important important folder where if anything happens to you, it doesn’t have to be as dramatic as death. But if anything happens that you can just send to a broker right away. To get started, you should practice this two years before you start to do it. That’s my top tip for sellers. My top tip for buyers

Unknown 32:01
start connecting with banks earlier than they think because what happens you will go somewhere and you will see a practice that you want to buy and the bank will not want to lend you on this practice. It’s not the practices fault. Sometimes it’s your fault. Sometimes you have too much credit card debt. Sometimes you have bought too big of a house to my my take home tip probably for if you do not own your professional business, dental office, Doctor office chiropractor office, physical therapy office, do not purchase a house first. Because when you purchase a house first two things happen. One, it’s a very emotional process that you don’t want to do again. So you are not willing to move for a good practice. So I talked I will talk to somebody when you get off this call will say there’s a practice 60 minutes away from you. They sell my kids go to school here. I don’t want to leave in by Nice. Yeah, that’s a really good practice, you can make $350,000 a year you’re making $150,000 for this app, I already own a home here. So that was a bad decision, rent until you buy it 40 years old rent until you purchase your professional practice, because that’s going to anchor you to the area. So that’s my main two tips there.

Justin Trosclair 33:08
I like that because Yeah, I remember I was listening to your dental amigos podcast. Yes. And that’s exactly one of the things you said it was like you You can’t move 30 minutes outside of like, the major sin. Yeah, I just bought a house you like I’m telling you, you can make triple or quadruple the money, right? And I can’t

Unknown 33:25
do it. So don’t put barriers to a big decision in your life. So when you put barriers to a big decision, it’s going to you’re not going to make a smart one. So rent until you rent. In chill, you find that practice because that practice what’s going to support you for the rest of your life. Not a three story home, not a fancy apartment. And it’s just human nature. Nobody likes to move, I don’t like to move. So, you know, make it as easy as possible where you’re not tied down to the area. rents have a broker comes in and says you know what, Justin, we have a great practice 45 minutes from here, there’s a 60 year old chiropractor retiring, he makes half a million dollars a year. And he would sell practice someone just like you, you should say, I want to go see that I’ll go rent there for a while. And then when I like everything I’ll purchase to purchase a home. So that’s my best tip,

Justin Trosclair 34:08
real quick. DENTIST have as much student loan, as a chiropractor probably more is that gonna, that should affect the bank loan. So I’m assuming these people need to be in practice for a while or what?

Unknown 34:19
The bank is not that scared of the student loan, because they know that Dennis will not fail. But remember, the definition of success is not not failing, I was just this joke. If my wife who was nice enough to help me with this Skype call because I was um, you know, technology. I’m not very good with technology. If you said, Hey, Mary, how’s your how’s your marriage going with Paul? And she said, Well, at least we’re not divorced.

Unknown 34:43
That was not nice married. So that that’s not success. So I mean,

Unknown 34:50
I mean, imagine you’d like like, I’m trying to think of your I don’t really bend over and you bend them but like you said, how’s your backup, at least in that bend over at 90 degrees, if that’s your definition for 60 spurts, a total failure. That’s why dentists can think of it that way. So the student loan is not as big of barriers you think, but they’ve also saved liquid assets a good tip as they need 10% of the practice purchase price saved and liquid asset. So don’t have all your student loans to quickly. So if you want to buy a $5,000 practice, that bank wants you to have $50,000 somewhere that you could touch for an emergency. good points.

Justin Trosclair 35:26
Well, I love having you on where can people find out all the information?

Unknown 35:30
Oh, sure. Well, Dr. Paul Goodman calm is my easy website has a lot of ways to contact me through email. I love doing see events for dentist. So we have a myself and Robert Montgomery have a was a dental focus attorney, the dental amigos. com has a podcast and see events. So those are two good sites that could plug him and calm and the dental amigos calm To find out more info.

Justin Trosclair 35:50
Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for being on the show you really brought it and I know if people use their brains, they’ll be able to implement it into their own doctor specialty. So

Unknown 36:00
appreciate it. Yes. What’s great for your field. And I appreciate you having me on.

Justin Trosclair 36:04
All right.

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