E 72 Relationship Ending Behaviors—Detect and Prevent by Divorce Coach Jeannine Lee


Jeannine Lee talks to Dr Trosclair on A Doctor’s Perspective Podcast

Relationship red flags, dysfunctional communication, parent child dynamics, balancing the other: these are covered so you don’t get divorced. If you do Jeannine Lee’s Beyond Divorce book and Group Recovery groups is a must to listen to. Learn about yourself and process all the tumultuous emotions.

Jeannine Lee, author of Beyond Divorce

, has a great specialty when it comes to being a life coach and relationship coach. We discuss how to find a life coach that is worth their grain of salt based on certifications and the like because it’s so easy to call yourself a coach and offer advice but not have much training.

Over her life she didn’t plan to carve a niche in the divorce market but through her own life experience, meditation and more (which she talks about) she found her calling and has spent over a decade helping people recover from the trauma of divorce.

This episode we dive deep into

    • relationship red flags

      • 3 strategies to communicate that are common but not so healthy

        • ways we use Dysfunctional Communication

          • how to grow beyond your problem

            • how to feel loved and appreciated by the other

              • reasons we feel neglected

                • What is the Parent- Child Dynamic and why its Destroys marriages and how it stems from childhood

                  • the balancing act: spenders vs savers, introvert vs extrovert .. making these roles less polarized

                    • patterns from childhood that repeat with our loved ones

                      • what to do if only one of you wants to change so that the relationship can be not only salvaged but rebuilt and stronger than ever.
                      Why and how does she relate a divorce to the following 3 Steps –Brokenness, Puberty and Adult Transformational Process.

                      Jeannine really wishes she could get to couples before that point of no return so she can spare the heartache of divorce.

                      John Gottman’s The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work

                      – 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Critical, Contempt, Defensiveness, Stone Walling … if any of these are present, they will destroy your marriage.

                      Complaint is an unspoken request. How to find and implement a “Repair Intent”, learn what that means and how to use it.

                      Ways to talk and act that really “Drops Into The Heart” Of Your Partner.

                      Boundaries are important and Jeannine briefly gives examples of how to set those up in a variety of scenarios.

                      Why is it that guys tend to only take their wives complaints seriously when they are walking out the door?

                      What sets up a couple for an Affair and ways to fix/ avoid before it happens?

                      She goes over what to expect if you were to attend one of her 10 week Divorce Recovery and Empowerment Program.

                      www.beyonddivorce.com to see all about Jeannine Lee as well as information on how you can investigate how to be a Facilitator of Beyond Divorce Recovery and Empowerment Program Groups in your own area. Her Book Beyond Divorce and between the book, her training and the 4 inch binder of “how to” you can be well equipped to lead your own group.

                      What to look for in a quality, certified Life coach (ACC, PCC, MCC) and were is that field going in the next 5 years?

                      upheavaltouplevel.com Even though divorce is getting lower, maybe because of cohabitating instead of marriage, life will always have upheavals. Family member gets cancer, dies suddenly, you lose your job etc so how do you capitalize and change your mindset of these challenging times and uplevel from them.

                      How turning gluten free 10 years ago and juicing once a year has changed her health.

                      She has been doing meditation for years and helps her get out of her own mind and gives a calm in the ocean, a creating sense of wholeness with all the direction life pulls us. How long can you mind be clear without having a single thought?

                      Eckhart Tolle The Power of Now

                      , Byron Katie Loving What Is

                      (4 Questions to Challenge Your Negative Thoughts)- Jeannine talks about these, and A Thousand Names for Joy

                      Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/72 >here you can also find links to things mentioned and the interview transcription.

                      Full Transcript of the Interview <strong> (probably has some grammatical errors)</strong>. Just Click to expand

                      Justin Trosclair 0:03
                      Episode 72 relationship and new behaviors detect and prevent. I’m your host, Dr. Justin Charles Claire and today, we’re Jean Lee perspective.

                      Join 2017 podcast Awards Nominated host Dr. Justin Trudeau. As he gets a rare to see him look into the specialties, all types of doctors and guess plus marketing, travel tips, struggles, goals, and relationship advice. Let’s hear

                      Unknown 0:27
                      a doctor’s perspective.

                      Justin Trosclair 0:31
                      Welcome back, everybody had to do a impromptu visit the Beijing with the boss can learn some more things about the way Chinese hospitals do rehab for like muscle skeletal issues. So going do that, and you know, my wife, the translator will not be with me, they just gonna because she’s pregnant. So they’re going to bring another translator in that I’ve met before. Hopefully, it’ll be the same guy. And we’ll just kind of see how several days goes in the big bad business world. Wish me luck.

                      Today’s show is one that affects so many people, it affects you kids, whether you like it or not. It affects you, whether you choose to admit it or not. But I think most of us would say divorce is hard. And there’s a lot of emotions, there’s positives, there’s negatives, there’s anger, there’s guilt, there’s so many things that you process and you maybe don’t even know the process. And until you visit a counselor, or you read some books and you make you can make a choice to recover are just let life happen, how it happens. And you can find ways to help prevent it from going on in the future. So we’re going to discuss relationship red flags, dysfunctional communication, the four horsemen if you find yourself in one of those, All right, now what do you do with it? Okay, parent child dynamic, so much more Janine. He also has, she has these classes, these group classes for 10 weeks. And it’s a group setting. And we’ll talk about in the show, and she’s also training people on how to facilitate a group near you. So let’s dive in to a fun conversation about eight serious topic, the doctor’s perspective, net slash seven, two for the show notes. Let’s go hashtag behind the curtain.

                      Live from China and the sweet rocky mountain god country of Colorado, we have a fantastic guest today. Her name is Janine Lee. Now before she says hello, she has a special place in my heart. Because as most of you know, at some point, I had a divorce. And she had these amazing classes. It was a facilitator in a group leader. And we went through like 30 hours of this group, I don’t want to call it counseling, but whatever it was, it was it was a group therapy session, if you will. And we just went through the highs and the lows, things you didn’t even know you’re gonna have to deal with when you get a divorce. And it was just amazing. And in fact, it was so good. I learned so much about myself that an opportunity arose to be a volunteer to help another bunch of group of people. And I did that as well and refer people to her and her book and her groups. And it’s just amazing. So I’m really happy to have on because she has a special new thing that she wants to talk about today. So welcome to the podcast.

                      Unknown 3:06
                      Hey, Justin. Thank you. It’s so nice to see you again. It’s been a while You look great. Yeah, thank you.

                      Justin Trosclair 3:16
                      follow you on Facebook, it looks like you are getting into gardening and getting outdoors and really embracing that Rocky Mountains. Is that true?

                      Unknown 3:24
                      That’s absolutely true. The mountains are my piece. I’m a fourth generation Colorado and and it’s in my blood to be in those mountains. Even

                      Justin Trosclair 3:34
                      though that was the thing I thought everybody was a one generation transplant.

                      Unknown 3:37
                      No, no, no. My great grandmother came over from Germany with the age of 16.

                      Justin Trosclair 3:44
                      settled in northwest Denver. Wow. That’s a weird place to land.

                      Unknown 3:49
                      That’s what I thought not Missouri, not Plymouth. Whatever it might be. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I enjoy being a Colorado native. Although I feel sometimes like I’m being ousted by all the people moving in the changes the dynamic, doesn’t it?

                      Justin Trosclair 4:04
                      Yeah. Yeah. Well, I left. So one less weirdo out there.

                      Unknown 4:10
                      Well, over 150 more moved in in your place. But how it goes?

                      Justin Trosclair 4:15
                      Yeah, well, I love what you did. You wrote a min amazing book called Beyond horse. And it covers, like I said, so many of the emotions that people don’t even realize that they’re gonna have to go through maybe anger, loss of a dream, like when I was going to retire, sit on a swing and hang out with my wife and see the grandkids walk around, and wham, you got a divorce. That’s not happening, life, life changes. And then you have to deal with that. Give us a little background about yourself. How did you decide to pursue your profession and get so deep into helping other people through such a hard time in their life?

                      Unknown 4:53
                      Well, my I’m actually trained as a life coach and relationship coach. And so that is what I would call my profession. My, the niche that I work with, is divorcing people. So I actually came to this work, the life coaching at a very

                      Unknown 5:12
                      tough time in my life. Very last time, I wasn’t happy. My marriage, my insides were literally being rearranged. I mean, I had a picture of somebody with a crowbar going in and straighten the foundations of my life. So I started going to the desert. And one of you know, that was like 18 years ago, and I’ve done a yearly since a week long sabbatical in the desert. And it was at one of those points in time, sitting in the early morning sun, the gold scent of the desert, drinking my tea, reading my book of the moment with my golden retriever sleeping at my feet. And I just had this inspiration that I was to be a life coach. So on my drive home, which was about seven hours, probably from where I was, I just was thinking about that came home research, coaching schools and never looked back. So that’s how I got into that. But then my divorce work, I went through a divorce after 30 years of marriage, I was one of those that believe very strongly in generational family. And that wasn’t going to happen. So you’re talking about the losses and how life changes. And it was, that’s a loss of a dream, right? And all those things that we plan on. And in my more resourceful moments, I began to realize that I had gone through the divorce experience to train me to do my work in the world. And I have been working with divorcing people. Since I understand their world, I understand the transformation that takes place. In the courses like you and I were talking about, I realized that people, people went through a whole life span. While in my courses, they come in a broken, feed me, hold me love me, take care of me comfort me, in about the middle of the course about the time we’re discussing boundaries and forgiveness. They go through this puberty stage, we need to get started now No, I’m not going to sit down my rock.

                      Unknown 7:11
                      And then toward the end, there’s more of a feeling of adult notice. I’m, I’m complete and whole, I’m healed. I’ve got a new vision, I want to go out into the world and express that. So in that way, divorce becomes a transformational experience.

                      Justin Trosclair 7:26
                      I don’t remember what you know, the whole thing. It’s been a It’s been a while now. But there was a letter, it was like a letting go letter. And you think, Oh, you think you got it, I got this thing licked, you know, the voluntary part, like Oh, come on up and read your story. And I broke down. I was like, oh, my goodness, apparently, I’m more healing to do. And then a few weeks later, you’ve got the anger letter, which is nice, because you can just let it out. And you don’t have to feel judged, because everybody else is going next. And it was really powerful. Like you said, people are kind of goofy, and you kind of get the bonding with some of these people. And you got to be told, hey, there’s no fraternizing. Hey, try not to go on any dates until we’re done with this whole series that obviously not with each other, but in general, just, that is be you time and me time to heal. You know? Yeah. During the pre talk, we mentioned, there’s different levels of communication, because one of the goals of the podcast is, and I’ve said this before, is people talk about, they’re making all this money, they’re building their empire. And then they just quickly mentioned that they went through a divorce, and they don’t get to see their kids as much. And I’m just like, Wow, that’s a huge part of life, and possibly more than likely could have been prevented. And so part of it is the charge to heal bad relationships before before the end. So one of the things you were talking about was like different levels of communication, what expand on that for us,

                      Unknown 8:48
                      I go there, I could get to couples before they get to that.

                      Unknown 8:52
                      That breaking point, right, there comes a point of no return. But so the way I have explained this to come bubbles is they are not in their current level of growth and development, they are not the people who can solve their problem. So it’s like they’re going along in life, they hit a block, just hit a wall, they can’t see over it, they can’t see around it, they don’t know. And so they think it’s time to just end. Because it’s so painful to stay in that same place. So there’s two ways to go when people hit that point, and that is one to exit. And before they before they solve the problem, right? The problem is like in front of them and just get out of the way. Problem is in your next relationship, it will probably return because it’s a growth step. Or you can go around it by getting more resources. I say not around it, but grow past it. But you know, attending workshops, seminars, hiding, right coach, finding the right therapy module, which is harder with couples, but you know, something, read books, anything, and then become the people who can then solve the problem. Because once we get bigger, we look back at that problem, which was just become smaller by perspective. And we can go Oh, yeah, now I get it. That’s how that’s the answer. So when I work with couples, that’s the way that we do that is by helping them to grow beyond their problem, right, become bigger people who can then solve it.

                      Justin Trosclair 10:24
                      Now, I think, yeah, because soon as you just you can’t have this the hard conversation, without both of you just going crazy. And you need that third party to kind of moderate and tease out what’s going on a deeper level,

                      Unknown 10:36
                      you’ve really do. And I tell people that even the best relationships need a third party, it’s sort of like you take your car in for a tune up, there’s no harm in that there’s no shame in it. It’s my car’s not, you know, I want to make sure it’s running right. And then of course, if you actually need a mechanic to make changes to your car, then you’ve got that. But coming to a coach is it’s, it’s really good practice this to keep things running smoothly to help you communicate, that happens a lot. When I work with couples coming out of an affair, infidelity, they there’s been a huge

                      Unknown 11:12
                      trauma in their relationship really dropped a bomb in there, and each party in that situation needs something. And so to meet regularly with me, or a relationship coach, helps them have that fine tune in that tweaking, because we’ll do it we’ll meet weekly at first, because it’s in a traumatic place critical. And then we’ll go on to every two weeks, once a month to sometimes, you know, once a quarter, and just having that place or quarterly to know they can come back and tweak it. It’s been really, really helpful. So a coach is really a good thing to have on board. And, and it’s interesting, when you look at a marriage, we take up things like okay, so roles are a big one. The example I like to use are a spender and a safer, you know, relationships are always trying to balance themselves. So you have somebody that’s a saver, somebody that’s a spender. And if it’s somebody is really a spender, this other person is going to automatically take up the space ever really being a saver. Right? Right. But you, right, right, right. But you can, and those are roles we take on because the relationship itself needs those roles. So but we what we can do is drop the roles as you would say, a robe, drop them, and then each person then can then take on a roll take the roll back on, but in a less polarized place. So the one who was the spender can also go Yeah, I get it where we need to save some, you know, I see the wisdom and that I will also take on part of the role of being a saver, and vice versa. Right. So that’s one of the ways that couples can really help is what roles are we taking on how invested are ways? We are not the roles? The roles are not us. It’s just a role we’re playing can make this relationship thing work. Good point. Yeah, it’s really fascinating. So there’s all kinds of ways that we balance each other. We have an introvert, we haven’t an extrovert, and those are often together. And at first with us, one of the things that attracts us to each other is Oh, you’re really outgoing. You’ll help me get out into a social life to the extrovert. Oh, well, you’re really grounded. And I feel so at peace with you to the introvert. And then after a few years, they’re fighting each other. You never want to go out? Well, you never talked to me? Well, you know, right.

                      Unknown 13:36
                      So a third party can explain and normalize those things, and that they’re good and find out how each role or each one of those dynamics is important to the marriage. I look at it like a fire. The extrovert is really hot, inspiring. It’s like the kindling to get a fire going. Where’s the introvert is more like the big, long burning log? Right? Both I needed to create the fire. Right, right. It’s really a great example. And there’s so many different, what we would call polarization, the things that end marriages and people don’t know how to work on that are needed. They’re actually needed. And it’s not a problem.

                      Justin Trosclair 14:17
                      I’ve heard the opposites attract each other. And then later, that’s actually what you end up fighting about. Exactly. It’s what I was just talking about.

                      Unknown 14:23
                      Okay. Yeah, exactly. And this is another interesting point, that conflict is gotten a bad name all over the place, right? It’s what starts wars and you know, all that stuff. But conflict in a marriage relationship can actually be a good thing. What it usually what I have found, what is usually wanting to happen, there is the relationship itself. And when I talk about the relationship, I’m talking about a third entity, okay. Right. Not just him and her. But a third entity that has its own goals and hope hopes and dreams. And it will require things of the two people involved in the relationship to make it work this case a couple, right. But conflict always means the relationship wants to go deeper. And it’s testing. Am I safe with you to let you deeper into my heart? Hmm. Right. And so there’s all this is no, nope, I’m not saying I’m not safe. So I’m going to fight about it. Right. It’s testing. It’s poking. It’s, you know, well, you said this, and you did that. But what’s really going to happen is a deepening of the relationship. Okay.

                      Justin Trosclair 15:36
                      And that could be subconscious as well,

                      Unknown 15:38
                      usually is okay. Because until you know that until you hear somebody say that, you don’t realize it, that that’s what’s going on. You just think it’s a fight and oh my gosh, we’re fighting. So this must be a bad relationship. I guess we have to leave? Not so much.

                      Justin Trosclair 15:52
                      So it could be like the stereotypical wife who quote nags to get attention. And so the husband pushes away. He’s like, a, can you just stop and she’s like, you just you’re not reading between the lines. She just wants to spend time with you. If you gave her that for a while, she would stop asking because she’s feeling love, because you actually are spending time with the person.

                      Unknown 16:11
                      Yeah, exactly. Okay. So this brings me to another point is that there are four relationship relationships. And this is from john Gottman, relationship researcher, therefore, dynamics in a relationship that are so toxic to it that he calls them before Apocalypse, or the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Yes. Right. And so it’s criticism and contempt and defensiveness and stonewalling. And when those are present in a relationship, they will take it down. So when people are being critical, so I always tell people, a criticism or a complete No, it’s a complaint is just an unspoken request, like the wife you’re talking about. Come spent, you know, you never spend time was me. Well, her her request is please come spend time with me. Right? So when we can reframe that when we’re in a relationship, it makes a big difference.

                      Justin Trosclair 17:10

                      Unknown 17:11
                      That’s a great book. By the way, if you haven’t read it anybody gotten and I don’t know what the book is called. But it says classic. JOHN Gottman, four, Prince. I don’t remember the four horsemen. I think it’s what it’s called. Right? It might be the one I’m thinking of a seven principles to make your marriage work. He has a number of books out. But that is a very good one, a lot of exercises. And in there, since people are going to now go out and read it. I will tell you that there is one antidote to the four horsemen. And that is what they call

                      Unknown 17:44
                      Oh, I can’t think of the name of it. But it’s,

                      Unknown 17:48
                      gosh, is too quick. But it’s where you make a an attempt to reconnect, you know, you may like stick out your tongue and put your fingers in your wiggle your, you know, figure with your fingers in your ears or just even put your hand on the shoulder and say, I’m really sorry, let’s just stop this.

                      Unknown 18:08
                      Right? It’s just where you you just break up the dynamic that’s going on instead of going at it let it get bigger and bigger. You there’s a word for it. And I can’t think of it right now.

                      Justin Trosclair 18:18
                      self aware that it’s going on?

                      Unknown 18:21
                      Yeah, Mm hmm. Okay, like a safety we’re making repair attempt. That’s the one is repair attempt. Right? It’s, it’s where you just, you know, you pulled up the white flag and say, wait a minute, what are we doing? I love you. Let’s take this down a notch. And the counter to that is the other person then has to respond to the repair attempt. So it goes two ways. One person has to realize we’re in it too big. We got to stop this. And the other has say you’re right, I get it.

                      Justin Trosclair 18:49
                      Yeah, yeah. I’ve got a simple example. Hopefully, people don’t get too weird. I had a lady friend. And we were making pancakes. She didn’t like the way I was doing it. Like the way I was buttering them. And it was it was starting to get heated. But he did like I was like, What is happening? I was just like, okay, and we I was aware of it, luckily, paused, we took a timeout, and then we find out what the root cause was. And it was it took care of it. It was fine. You know, tempers didn’t get too crazy. But it wasn’t one of those weird things were like, this is what we’re going after pancakes and butter. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so then after a while, you can actually joke about it. And if you see yourself getting a little while, later on, you go, Hey, butter, go. Yeah, butter.

                      Unknown 19:30
                      Yeah, that’s the key word. Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, so that kind of brings us back full circle to what you asked me a while ago about communication styles. So you know, there’s this, there’s sort of three different levels that you can go to. And that one is this sort of what I would call a law relationship where you throw rules at each other, and maybe related relationship research, you know, you leave a book on the counter for your partner to pick up read this, it’s got all that, you know, this is how we need to be doing things. And so there’s not a lot of it’s more of a mental thing, where we’re, we want to go by the rules to make our relationship work, then we drop into circumstances, we want things to be the same on a circumstantial level, like bettering the toes, do you know the pancakes, you’re not doing the right way. But really, there’s a bigger thing below that you didn’t mention what that was. But when we can drop in deeper, we go, Wait a minute, what are we missing here? Why are we communicating, and it’s a heart to heart place of communicating. And so people, your audience that are working at building a business, and doing all these, you know, are maybe challenge to keep their marriage together while they’re building a business? It’s like, taking the time to realize where your relationship is, are you just barking at each other about? Well, you didn’t do this, right? And therefore I’m, you know, mad at you or, you know, put so much strain on the relationship? Or can you just kind of go take your partner by the hand and sit down on the couch and say, What’s happening here? How can I meet your needs? I know, I’ve been busy. I know, I’m really my focus is elsewhere, and it needs to be on you. And I’m really sorry. So let’s can we connect right here and start over? And you see, you feel the difference in that of being able to drop into the heart, instead of what you’re always nagging at me? Well, you’re never home. You know, that’s, that’s just, that’s circumstantial. And that’s the complaints, again, what the request is, could you please spend more time with me, like you were mentioning before,

                      Justin Trosclair 21:44
                      but we can such routines, like said like, if you notice in it, get help quicker, versus waiting until you get to that line were like, I don’t even really want to come home after work. And I know what it’s going to be.

                      Unknown 21:54
                      Exactly, exactly. And that’s when dropping down into the heart is really, really important. And some people don’t know how to do that at all. And that’s where third party help can come in, working with the relationship. So when you look at the conflict in relationship, and it’s saying, we want to go deeper, and you don’t know how to go deeper, you either stay the same and fight about the same things, and stay in the circumstantial battles, or you seek help of some kind, whether it’s a book or group, or a coach, or whatever it is, and you learn how to drop deeper into your heart, which is ultimately better for you personally, as well as better for the relationship. We all want to come from a place of heart, I think in our lives,

                      Justin Trosclair 22:40
                      what would you say? I’ve read enough books to where I think I’m kind of already leading, leading the question here, but I want to change my spouse doesn’t want to, they don’t see the problem. And so I’m going to what can I read some books and change myself? And then that person will end up changing? Do I treat this person like that they’re God’s gift, and then eventually, they’ll change their mind and be nice back to me. I mean, what can we do with maybe one tip we can do if you’re you want to change, but the other person refuses to acknowledge,

                      Unknown 23:11
                      yeah, that is probably the hardest dynamic to work with. Because you can’t change another person. So one of the things you can do is you can set limits on their behavior, right boundaries, you can use boundaries by saying, You can’t treat me like this by saying, I need this.

                      Unknown 23:33
                      And I’m not going to be around you as long as x behavior is going on, or as long as you treat me this way. Because we have control over us. And the way I want to be treated is about me, right? So I can say you’re not getting in any further into my heart, and less you earn the right to be there, basically,

                      Justin Trosclair 23:55
                      right? But it’s not like a divorce ultimatum, it’s more like, I’m going to go into the goal, I’m gonna go for a drive, if you’re just gonna be like that, I gotta get out of this space.

                      Unknown 24:06
                      Exactly. When that’s temporary, right? So that’s in the middle of an argument, or somebody yelling at you were saying mean things or whatever it’s like, yes, definitely put a stop to that and, and go somewhere else. But if it continues, and you continually ask over and over and over for changes in the relationship, and the other person isn’t interested, then that is really the challenge. So you could set behaviors on it, right? Oh, you want sex tonight, I’m sorry, I just don’t feel connected to you. Right now, without these particular changes, or, you know, whatever it is, that’s just an example. And people have more power in a relationship than they realize, you know, they feel like they have to do all these things to keep their partner happy. And it’s nice to do. But it’s not imperative, right? It has to be a mutual meeting, before genuine happiness is created. And if they just can’t do it, and won’t do it, then you’re in that choice of, can I live the rest of my life with this without getting this particular thing that I need? Like, I have a friend who has a husband, who’s an engineer, she loves him to death. But she says he just doesn’t do the connection thing. Because he’s got an engineer’s mind. And interestingly enough, the two vocations that came to my divorce recovery classes, the most were engineers, and like, nurses, teachers, so the ones that couldn’t drop into their heart and the ones that were so in their heart, they were taking care of everybody. Kind of interesting, isn’t it?

                      Justin Trosclair 25:41
                      Yeah, it does.

                      Unknown 25:42
                      Yeah, so this gal is married to an engineer, and she says he’s great in every other way. And she’s just decided, because she loves them that that’s, you know, she’ll live with that. He may never meet her on a heart level, but they do a lot of things together, they’ve got kids, they have a great life. So for her, that choice is worth it. For some others, you know, like, if there’s abuse or you know, something, you know, financial, somebody’s running them into the ground financially, you know, there’s all kinds of things that you just can’t live with. Right. And if the ultimatums don’t work, you know, if you don’t stop spending all our money and putting us in debt, I’m not going to stay in this marriage, then I mean, that’s a very hard drawn boundary. And sometimes you have to just to protect yourself. Those are the ones that make me sad, because there’s really nothing you can do. But there’s that space in between of you can see a third party, who will say Do you see how close she is to walking out the door? Do you really get that? Because a lot of times, especially for guys, I don’t quite understand this, but especially for guys, they don’t often take their wives seriously. I don’t they think it’s PMS, or it’s just she had a bad day or what it is, but she feels like she’s saying over and over and over. I need this. I need this. I need this. And he’s not changing. And there’s even a door song It says, Don’t you love her when she’s walking out the door? Right, that I’ve heard men fall in love with their wives when they’re walking out the door. And that is I’m working with a client recently who said I am filing divorce papers, I’ve got them right here. If you don’t do X, I’m going to go File all of a sudden, he woke up, got rid of the girlfriend and said, Okay, yeah. But you know, how long could she wait? Am I going to wait until you decide to get rid of the girlfriend?

                      Unknown 27:36
                      Right is like, No, I can’t take it anymore. I’m going to get divorce papers, they’re here on my calendar. If you want to get rid of her and come back and work on the marriage, I’ll hold off if you’re not on filing. That’s a hard boundary. And in her case, it made a difference. He actually decided what was the thing you wanted?

                      Justin Trosclair 27:55
                      And Bravo and her for wanting to stick it out?

                      Unknown 27:58
                      Exactly. brilliant strategy.

                      Justin Trosclair 28:00
                      Yeah. There are a lot of good books to on, you know, after the fair and and how do you recover? And because they’re going through their own thing you’re going through your own thing is just, there’s so much wrapped up into that, I think at that point, you really need to have a third party, you

                      Unknown 28:15
                      do because you don’t want a really interesting thing about an affair is that the relationship, the third entity, actually needs something that the two people are not providing to the relationship. So one of the parties can actually go outside of the relationship to get that thing. Right. So the interesting part about working with a coach is you can discern what is that thing that is missing? Right? I don’t want to go into this this particular client situation because it’s a little too not as fun, but But what do you know? What is the relationship looking for? And then bring the energy of that back in? Right? How do you feel when you’re with us? other person? Well, I feel strong, I feel happy. I feel like I’m in charge. I don’t feel like I’m being you know, mothered or controlled. Okay, so what would it be like if we brought that if you could have that in your relationship? And so working with a coach, you find out what those things are, and then that relationship has to expand to incorporate that new way of doing things.

                      Justin Trosclair 29:22
                      Because I don’t think there’s very many people, I don’t know what a number would be what your needs are not being met for a while. So then want to and find another person, whether that’s on purpose, or the classic, you’re kind of just having to work t turns into a dinner, and then dinner turns into Oh, yes, true. Hotel, oh, crap, I didn’t know this was going on. Like you set it up for the last six months, but your home life set it up as well, because somebody needs weren’t being met, whether that was spoken or unspoken, right. And of course, there’s just, you know, horrible people that just cheat on people for no reason. But

                      Unknown 29:53
                      there can be but the you know, in the same time, while this person is going out and getting the dynamics that are needed in the relationship, when we bring them back in, and we also work with the other partner for how do we incorporate these what is you know, what is being required of you right now. So the number one relationship ending dynamic is some sort of a parent child, where one is in control in charge, you do this, you do this, you know,

                      Unknown 30:23
                      sometimes even in charge of all the finances and doesn’t give the other party, you know, gives them a tiny budget, you know, there’s no equal sharing and finances, it can go pretty extreme. And the other person on the other end of that, then it’s feeling like a child, you don’t listen to me, you’re always telling me what to do. And if it’s if it’s a woman who’s the take charge, parental type, the guy can be feel very emasculated. And really well, then just, you know, fight back or leave the relationship in order to find some self sense of self respect. Well, in that case, we have to work with the wife to tone it down, to learn how to be equal and respect her her guy, and then he’s got to learn how to step up and really be able to confront her, right, because every woman deep inside wants a man who can contain her. And if and if he’s being, quote, week, he’s got it and her view, he’s got a different way of being in the world, then. Then she’s not going to feel contained, she’s not going to have the same kind of respect. As if, you know, he could really he has seen he has to grow to be able to do that. Right? Yes, to grow into his masculinity. I’ve referred guys to different

                      Unknown 31:40
                      men who are coaches working in the men’s movement, mankind project, that kind of thing to become, right stronger how to contain their women had to be for their women to in and it’s needed grow step, whether you stay in a marriage or not.

                      Justin Trosclair 31:55
                      And this doesn’t have to be just the woman who makes more money than you. It could, she could not even have a job, but just has a very strong personality that demands just not able to, I guess, like you said, step up to the plate for

                      Unknown 32:07
                      Right, right. And people challenge that because they think if I stand up to my controlling partner, that may be the beginning of the end of the relationship. And it’s possible, but you got to at least try it first.

                      Unknown 32:23
                      Before assuming it’s already, it’s all automatically going to end it if you do

                      Justin Trosclair 32:27
                      it. You know, the problem is, we all have Either that, or their dads that weren’t there, you know, I say like daddy issues are, but we were all raised by somebody, and then inherently is going to cause some damage. And so you may be compensating for something that happened when you were a kid. That is not even a necessary part of life now. But it’s been so ingrained that you can be be unaware of it. And again, it takes maybe a third party to unpack that. So you’re like, Hey, why are you acting that way you’re doing this and you’re like, well peel back all the layers, you figure it out. And now you can heal and potentially move on.

                      Unknown 33:05
                      But we’re talking about parent child. So there’s two ways that that shows up. One is if I am perfect, maybe you will love me, right? as a little kid in our parents household. Usually that happens with dad, right? If I’m the football star, and I make X amount of money, and I have the right girlfriend, and you know, if I’m perfect, will you be proud of me, maybe you’ll love me, maybe you’ll get me the attention I need. The other one is if I take care of you, then maybe you will love me. Right? If I bring you tea, if I cook dinner before you get home thinking about a child with mom, right? moms working a couple of jobs, especially if it’s a single mom, will if I take care of you, maybe you will love me. And that works great as when we’re kids, because those that’s really a very healthy or adaptive behavior when we’re kids. Right? The survival exactly, to get the love and the affirmation that we need to grow. But that the problem comes in when we take those into our marriage. And we’ve got somebody that’s always caretaking member I said the nurses and the teachers one of the vocations most represented, right and if I if I take care of you will love me and but in relationship, we want to be equal partners. Not one that’s caretaking. Right, because we care take all the time. This is kind of interesting. It’s like how can you be mad at me it because I’m doing all these nice things for you. Right? It’s almost it’s really a tricky, it’s a gift to get right. I’m going to do all these things night for you. So you give me love. But it’s not a free giving. Or you know, the perfectionism thing if, if we’re perfect over and over, but we don’t really want perfect partners, we want a partner to meet us. Yeah. Right. And then and then with we’re trained to be perfectionist, and we’re not only perfectionist with ourselves, we’re perfectionist with how the house is taken care of. And, you know, did you put that, you know, is the car clean? You know, all of that stuff. We’re perfectionist around us. And it’s hard to live with a perfectionist. So people get tired of it, and they want to leave the marriage because it’s you know, so that’s one of the ways that the ways we grow up, affect us in our marriages. And we have to learn how to adult relating at that point instead of parent child relating.

                      Justin Trosclair 35:25
                      Yeah, she’s going deep, don’t y’all today?

                      Unknown 35:27
                      Oh, yeah, sorry.

                      Justin Trosclair 35:30
                      No, it’s good. I think if this is the topics that you don’t get to hear a lot of, and like I said, She’s got a great book out there. And if you can use to facilitate these, these divorce recovery groups, you’ve kind of gotten away from that you you started your own thing. And then it’s kind of more now, instead of you leading these groups in Colorado, in Denver, and all that, you’re starting to try to teach other people to do what you do. And other areas, you want to elaborate on that a little bit for us.

                      Unknown 36:02
                      Yes, I actually am teaching other people to facilitate to the beyond divorce recovery and empowerment program. And I’m having great fun doing it, I realized that I can have a bigger impact, with my work by other people teaching it, facilitating it. And so I’ve got, I already have it being facilitated and other parts of the country, which is great, it’s very fulfilling to me. So it’s, I don’t know, it’s about take ends up taking about four months, maybe five months for the training. And so to go from just having an interest in doing it and not having a business card or a website, or even much of a social media presence and getting all those setup, and getting contacts, you know, people that can be in your groups and then running a group, it’s not a bad thing for, you know, six months to go from nothing to, you know, being an to not only help people, but also create some income for yourself. And what I’m finding is, it’s really good to supplement, maybe a part time income, or a retirement income, it wouldn’t replace a full time job, it there’s just, you know, that would take an awful lot of push, but fairly easily, you can supplement those others part time or retirement.

                      Justin Trosclair 37:23
                      So give us a you know, at one point, I was fired up and was like, Hey, this is a couple years back before you had a real program, and I think I’d called you like yeah, there’s certain people out there, I’m really, you know, it’s kind of looking for like a little little side hustle and make a little extra income because it’s not cheap to do these to be a member to be a participant, but it’s not expensive either. It’s a really really worthy investment of your money and time. And the program wasn’t quite there yet. And and I was too busy doing other things that’s a really put the time and effort in it. But I was like, this is a really good thing. So for those who could find like, like an interest in this and kind of tweaks their their interest a little bit, what is like a maybe a brief outline of maybe some classes that you would take or what what you’re responsible for as, as a facilitator, one of these groups.

                      Unknown 38:09
                      Um, the main thing we’re responsible for is the facilitators, people’s hearts, people come at it very vulnerable time in their lives. And sometimes they are completely broken open, and they just need to be held contained, get them some calm. You know, some people come at different phases, some people are terribly broken, and they just need to be held. And then we work them through the steps, you know, the first one is sort of an assessment of where you are in your divorce, you know, all the different areas, how you’re doing with your family, how you’re doing with your health, your spirituality, your fun and recreation, Euro, the the legal challenges all of that it’s an assessment. The second one is learning about the status of transition, and what that means, and also getting some relief from some of the harder emotions like guilt and fear and rejection and how I’m just trying to it off the top of my head. But then we have two nights, as you mentioned, particularly dedicated to grief, and then anger, and then one for forgiveness and boundaries, self worth learning what went wrong, which is part of what I just was teaching you a little bit on the parent child, some of stuff that goes wrong, and then dating and relating, and then sort of a launch in a purposeful way, how do I get back out in my life? So those are the 10 sessions. But the program itself actually has a marketing component, a preparatory component where it’s like, how do I find venues? How do I do registration? How do I take payments, that kind of stuff, and then training for each of the 10 sessions.

                      Justin Trosclair 39:55
                      That sounds perfect. Because that that’s one of those big things that everybody I think needs a with Chiropractic and Dr. stuff, we want to know we buy these programs. And then like, Oh, I got actually market this, oh, I gotta figure out how to do a dinner with the doc and get people to the actual dinner to tell them about what I do. And that’s sometimes one of the hardest parts. But what would you were saying is you teach that you provide that you give templates and all the all the things you need the nuts and bolts,

                      Unknown 40:23
                      yeah, actually

                      Justin Trosclair 40:24
                      make this a problem, not just profitable, but successful and easy. And

                      Unknown 40:30
                      I’ve been doing this for, you know, some version of this for 10 years. And I’ve learned some stuff. And I’ve got, you know, I’ve got some stuff figured out. And I really want people to be successful doing this. So I don’t withhold anything. It’s like with these weekly trainings, I will answer anything I’ve given all of you know, I’ve developed quizzes, I’ve developed all this stuff, and I freely hand it out while I’m doing this training. So people get a facilitators Guide, which is I don’t know how big it is, I have a notebook. It’s like a full orange notebook that has timelines and notes in the right questions to ask how you set it up. It’s got all this stuff, because I’ve taught it so many times. And then I a student syllabus that I call a tool kit, and then my book. So there’s the three things. So it’s pretty much a turnkey program, you can buy this thing, get the training and go out and do it. This one gal that I’m working with right now, is I think she had six gals in her first training. And she just was given permission. She’s a counselor to school system, she was just given permission to reach out to all the people in her school system that are getting divorced. It’s like 1500 people. And so for her next class, she’s going to be really rocking it. And, and she’s doing

                      Justin Trosclair 41:48
                      a 30 person, Yes, she’s

                      Unknown 41:49
                      gonna do it as retirement income. And she’s even thinking of doing two classes at once. So you know, she’ll be she’ll be do it, I’ve got another guy. He’s not finished the training right now, because he ended up he’s moving to residences, and it’s just crazy time in his life, but the medical doctor in California in Santa Cruz, so hopefully, and I’m an invite him back to the next training and he’ll get up and rolling them too. But it’s great fun. The first night, this gals class, she sent me a photograph of her setup, and I just cried, I’m just like, Oh my gosh, here it is, you know, it’s expanding. It’s like casting seeds or something, it was just a very, it’s very meaningful to me to know that so many more people are going to be helped with this work. Because when you’re in it, man, it is hard. And it’s so hard to do it on your own, nobody should do it on their own. So to have this available to more people is like a dream for me. I

                      Justin Trosclair 42:46
                      agree. I mean, we had guys and girls in the group. So it’s not just the girl thing, obviously just had a guys going facility. But I mean, it’s a mix, you got people, I mean, man, like horrible stories to just, we just fell apart. And as the one that happened again, I mean, runs the gamut. There’s lots of emotions going on in there. And it was just nice to have an accountability, all the people in the group, you got to call each other and kind of just make sure everybody’s going okay. And if you don’t do it, you get called for it.

                      Unknown 43:15
                      And there’s a reason, because it’s good for you to do those things. Yeah, you know, I

                      Justin Trosclair 43:20
                      got I got a message month or so ago from someone on Facebook. And she’s like, Hey, you really recommended this program for me just want you to know, it really changed my life. And I’m getting married in a week or no, like a like the next weekend or something like that. She’s like, I just wanted you to know so thankful that you introduced me to her and that type of stuff. And like that’s that’s powerful testimony right there that

                      Unknown 43:41
                      was for this program. Oh, yeah. You said a program. So I didn’t know.

                      Justin Trosclair 43:46
                      You’re got it

                      as a student, goodness, where people can find information about this program, and then you in general,

                      Unknown 43:56
                      probably my website is probably the best way beyond divorce calm,

                      Justin Trosclair 44:01
                      right beyond divorce.com. You’ve heard it here. First people.

                      We have a few more questions you have to do. Yeah. Where do you see life coaching, particularly your program? It sounds like you would love to be in every state. But where do you see everything kind of going in the next five years.

                      Unknown 44:24
                      That’s a tricky one. So that the life coaching profession has gotten very watered down, because anybody can hang up a shingle and say I’m a coach, which makes it really hard on people like me who have spent 10s of thousands of dollars on training.

                      Unknown 44:42
                      So I think that particular profession is going to continue to

                      Unknown 44:47
                      be watered down, it’s going to be harder and harder to find people who are actually trained coaches with skills.

                      Justin Trosclair 44:54
                      Don’t have any kind of certification, like something kind of behind your name that you can isolate, like like the yoga people have a very particular certification. If you look them up, they’re like, oh, wow, this person actually knows what they’re doing. They’ve gone through this program, you’ll have something like this,

                      Unknown 45:08
                      I have many of those, because I’ve taken so many trainings.

                      Unknown 45:14
                      And I don’t know that people look for that we do have a governing board called the International coach Federation that has different levels and ACC a PCC and an MCC for associate professional or master coach. That’s one good way for people to tell the difference. Because you have to it is actually you don’t get those levels without meeting certain criteria. So that tells you one way to look for a real coach with training, I guess I would say, as far as the divorce niche, it is actually at least in the area I am in really quieting down. And I think that’s, you know, maybe people are not divorcing a much as much. But I think it’s also people are not marrying as much. Right? I think for the first time in our country’s history. I think I heard it a couple years ago, there are less marriages than their, it less than half of people getting married, something like that.

                      Justin Trosclair 46:12
                      So when you’re doing your Facebook marketing, they’re just have to be co habitat split up recently. Yeah,

                      Unknown 46:17
                      something like that. And I think also because, I mean, marriage makes a difference. So if you’re just cohabitate with someone, it can go as deep as marriage, but often it doesn’t, because people don’t dive into they’re not as committed to it. So the breakups are a little bit can be a little bit easier, not as deep as someone who’s been married and really open their heart and their life and their memories and all of these experiences to another person. You know, if you’re just got one foot in one foot out, it’s like you can leave it pretty easily. And I think more and more people are going there.

                      Justin Trosclair 46:51
                      So one of the things so they’re not even like fully committed for like five years, they could still be kind of happy, wishy washy. Yeah,

                      Unknown 46:57
                      yeah. It doesn’t mean, I mean, I’m seeing that more and more people are just, you know, and I think they also don’t recognize the need for overcoming the emotional aspect of that they deny it, it just move on, get a new partner, right. And that does make them feel better. But it’s not really the way it works, right? Because often, if you do that, when the second relationship ends, you end up reading both of them rather than doing one at a time. You know, doing one cleaning it up and getting ready for another. So,

                      Justin Trosclair 47:29

                      Unknown 47:31
                      so that is is changing. But one of my interests now is what I call upheaval to up level. And that is I have a website up evil to up level calm. I am not promoting it very much. But I like the idea because upheavals are not going away. They are actually getting more, right. There’s all kinds of people, there’s bankruptcy, there’s health crises, there’s empty nest, there’s retirement, there’s car crashes, there’s the natural disasters, there’s divorce, and relationship and things, all of these things can be traumatic upheavals in our life. You know, we’re just going along, everything’s great. And then boom, something happens. And where it just tossed into this upheaval. So a lot of the same emotions as what we go through a divorce, you know, the grief and the anger and the, what the heck just happened. And the transition stages, you know, all of the tumultuous snus, it’s like having a rug pulled out from under you and everything goes flying. And, and the same process of putting it back together. So I, you know, that interest me of helping people use those upheavals as transformational experiences, like, how many times have you heard people say,

                      Unknown 48:46
                      you know, that my brain tumor was a horrible experience, but I, I just view the world so differently. Now I’m happier, I’m doing x, y, z, you know, I feel like my life is meant purposeful, that kind of thing. So that’s what I’m hoping to help people capitalize on with the upheavals. But like I said, I’m still doing mostly the divorce work. But I see that’s where it’s going. When you’re asking where it’s going. I think that’s where it’s going is more into general upheavals rather than just one.

                      Justin Trosclair 49:18
                      Yeah. When you look at all the scholarship, and all the organizations and nonprofits, it’s like, man, they especially like Hollywood people, they have an issue, they’ve turned it into an upper level, they create a foundation, it’s like, you know, they’re already like 15 other organizations that pretty much did the same thing that you’re doing, you could have just sort of joined forces with

                      Unknown 49:38
                      see what

                      Justin Trosclair 49:41
                      is a pet peeve of mine. I’m like, the mike, there’s 10 other those guys come on, like you could have just throw your money at them and, you know, recreate the wheel.

                      Unknown 49:50
                      I think that’s, in some ways. I think that’s how people up level their upheaval, though, is by creating the foundation like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, I think that was part of that woman.

                      Unknown 50:01
                      healing process was to create this and put all that energy into that.

                      Justin Trosclair 50:05

                      Unknown 50:06
                      that’s a great one. And there’s a whole bunch more like that, right? people taking these traumatic events and creating something new. So

                      Justin Trosclair 50:14
                      all right, so I like this part of the interview, we kind of switch it a little bit more personal. And one of the good questions I like, what other things are preoccupied in your mind? We kind of mentioned being outdoors, but kids hobbies, volunteering, gets you excited? Oh, okay. Well, I try not to let things preoccupy my mind. So let me clarify that

                      I work

                      Unknown 50:36
                      really hard to stay out of my head in that way. But I am an avid lover of the outdoors. Colorado has a bunch of mountains that are over 14,000 feet, our highest peaks, and I’ve climbed 30, some of those, take my camera with me, one of my favorite things is going someplace I’ve never been and taking my camera. So, you know, catch, I look at the world a little bit differently. When I’m looking through a lens, you know, you can see a piece of something that catches your eye. Rather than taking a picture of an old truck, you can take a picture of a headlight or the steering wheel or you know, something like that. So I look at the world differently. I try and I need to every day spend time in what I call wild places. It is what drops me into my body draw is a grounding place for me.

                      Unknown 51:30
                      So those are some of my favorite things. I love growing, I have a garden and I’m a big fan of healthy eating. So I’ve eaten organically for Gosh, I don’t know, 25 years, I think

                      Justin Trosclair 51:44
                      it’s an O G and the organic food before you could even go to the store and get organic.

                      Unknown 51:50
                      So I became gluten free about 10 years ago, and people say wasn’t that hard? And like, no, it was just another thing to look for on the labels. It was I’ve been reading labels for years years already. And anymore, I don’t even rarely go out to eat the food and restaurants just isn’t the quality I need. So I grow my food, I eat a lot of salads, all that kind of stuff. Because I’m over 60. And I really like having a certain level of energy and eating that way. And being outdoors and keeping myself balanced the work life balance thing I allows me to have this certain kind of energy to keep doing what I love to do.

                      Justin Trosclair 52:30
                      So that’s awesome. You don’t learn that overnight?

                      Unknown 52:33
                      No, I know. And you don’t develop the habits overnight for sure. Every time. I know for years and years, I did a at least a week long juice fast. And every time I did that, something out of my diet would drop away, you know, alcohol would drop away, or chocolate would drop away or potato chips would drop away. And I just cakes, you know, pastry kind of things. I just wasn’t interested interested in them anymore. And so as I’ve done that, and gotten my system cleaner and cleaner, it tolerates less and less so it’s, you know, for me, that’s fine. And that’s from Yeah, yeah, juicing. Looking, yeah, live juices, greens, and carrots and beets and that kind of thing just every day instead of food drinking, live juices, spirit nutrition, and

                      Justin Trosclair 53:25

                      Unknown 53:26
                      so you get everything that you need. And except for maybe protein, but you don’t go for a week and then just introduce things slowly back in and whole different level, you learn a lot by juicing too, because you know, it can be starving, and instead of scarfing down a huge plate of food, you go get a glass of juice and be completely satisfied. So you realize how much of our eating is in our head, and kind of one haha. So it’s a great learning, just fasting from a lot of things really puts you in a very thoughtful place in a more spiritual place life more, the body’s lighter, the mind is lighter. I enjoy it a lot.

                      Justin Trosclair 54:05
                      It really is eating at a certain time every day is a huge habit you get off work.

                      But any of those days where you’re like, Oh, I got a big dinner with some friends. Three hours later, suddenly, you’re just not even really that hungry until that time. And it says it’s a mind over food type of thing. You just have to fight through it for a little while. Until you champ and

                      Unknown 54:25
                      yeah, and there’s such good rewards to it. Like I feel so good doing a juice fast. I feel like a fly. If I could do it forever. I would bet the body does need a few other things. But it’s just as

                      Unknown 54:42
                      I know, the benefits are great. So you don’t you know, it’s not a fight. It is at first. I mean the first three days you’re actually kind of hungry. But after three days, you’re not even hungry. goes away. And which is really cool. Because one of the things about fasting is that your body actually then starts digesting things internally and it works on the things that don’t belong there first, right start digesting all the crap that’s why it’s cleansing.

                      Justin Trosclair 55:05
                      My wife did a seven day fast water fast no food. Yeah, those are do Yeah, yeah. She has some kind of Chinese breathing technique and was reciting some kind of mantra to get the food times and she got hungry. Yes. impressed with three days.

                      Unknown 55:24
                      Yeah, yeah, only certain people can do water fast. I’m really respect people that can do that. I can’t my blood sugar water allow it. But that’s why juice fasts work good for me.

                      Unknown 55:39
                      Man, that’s gotta be hard on the body just to do coffee for a week. Oh, man.

                      Justin Trosclair 55:44
                      I don’t even make that. Whatever.

                      Unknown 55:46
                      So anyway, a healthy lifestyle and work life balance and being an outdoors. very fulfilling for me.

                      Justin Trosclair 55:54
                      I would love it, I know that you’re gonna have a great answer for this one, a morning or lunch routine that ground yourself.

                      Unknown 56:00
                      Yes, very, very important. For years and years. The first thing I do in the morning is what sets the tone for my whole day. So I’m big on meditation these days, I wasn’t for a long time. It was more of a prayer like offering questions to an entity outside of me, whom I have called God and Manal call more like spirit.

                      Unknown 56:25
                      And but it was like seeking helper answers from outside of a meditation now has taken me inside, more to a resourcefulness in May. And, you know, we all live in the world and their circumstances everywhere we step into the world into circumstance. But there’s a piece that is beneath those circumstances. And that is what meditation helps me find is this. It’s like, calm in the ocean. Right? The circumstances are all the waves and the raucousness. But deep into the ocean, there’s a stillness, that meditation allows me to go inside and to start my day from that place. And then from there, then I will do my exercise, and which may be a walk in the morning, or it may be something I do with weights on from YouTube, or something else to prepare my food for the day. So all very basic things for me.

                      Justin Trosclair 57:24
                      What type of meditation do you do? There’s a couple of buzzwords going around. I don’t

                      Unknown 57:29
                      I don’t know that I have a name. I’m not one a big one for following labeled kind of things. For me, okay. Yeah, yeah, I know it. Tim has a big name. I just learned recently that Jerry Seinfeld was a huge tm practitioner. Isn’t that interesting.

                      Unknown 57:48
                      So I don’t really have a label. But for me, it a lot of this started, when I went through my own divorce I was so in my head. And so in the emotions of it that I just started trying to find it was a book the power now actually, that helped me start finding this. And I started finding a little tiny spot right on my breastbone.

                      Unknown 58:09
                      And it just slowly through the years has gotten bigger and bigger, the more I focus on the meditation. And that’s where this peaceful place grows. And now it has gotten to where it’s bigger than me, I can be in this peaceful place, rather than just a little spot in me. So it’s, it’s just a break, you know what it is, it’s bringing all the little tendrils of myself that are all over the place. Right? There’s one out here with my mother, there’s one over here with my kids, there’s another one over there at work there, whatever it is, right? And it’s taking time to pull those in almost like ribbons, pulling them back in. To me this ribbons of energy, they’re scattered all over and pulling them in and creating that sense of homeless where all of my energy all of who I am. is back home where it belongs. The Power of Now is that that eat mark, Tony, Tony, to Ll E. Yeah.

                      Justin Trosclair 59:02
                      Okay. Funny, funny story. I am not really, I didn’t know who this guy was, it was like, Hey, we should watch a video of this guy was like, whatever, you know, I like I like to learn stuff was like I’m game let’s let’s let’s learn about something. He walked out on stage, and just sits there. It felt like five minutes, is just drinking his water, like looking around. And then he finally talked and like I just said more words than he did in probably three minutes. Just everything was very deliberate. But that was the one thing that I really pull from it was just being able to be a, I guess, I don’t know what, you know, words he used but just be content with where you are and appreciating, you know, like, oh, I’ve got a glass of water that came from the foster that came got a glass like appreciate, like, you know, it takes to get a cup of water from your Foster, like, I live in China, we don’t get fresh water, like I have to either boil it, or you pay for one of those big five gallon containers. Like, that’s how you get your water. So anyway, just kind of being appreciative of everything. And really being consciously aware of like all that kind of stuff, like what it takes to create a cell phone and blow my mind, like the digging around and get something out of there.

                      Unknown 1:00:15
                      Yeah, one of the things he says in his book is to watch your mind, like, a cat would watch a mouse hole. Right to just like you watch it and you know, like, watch your mind for thoughts. Like you would watch, you know, a hole that a mouse would come out of? And how long can you have your mind empty before a thought comes? And that’s really an interesting exercise. Because like, even when you’re trying to do it, it’s like, you know, 15 seconds maybe. But to be at a place where you could sit there for a long time and not have a single thought for however long, right? Because your mind is just empty. That the goal? Yeah. Oh, dad, time where your mind is just empty, which when you’re in that empty space, that’s where creativity can naturally arise. Right? That’s the being place. So when you’re doing you have a different quality to you’re doing because it’s coming from a quiet place, rather than that all the headstone. That’s why I was saying I try not to be in my head. Don’t want to do that. Yeah, I

                      Justin Trosclair 1:01:21
                      gotcha. Well, even like when I think like Judeo Christianity and prayer, and these like prayer warrior people, it’s not all God this, can you do this? Thanks for that. Thanks for this. There is a point of where they’re like just shut up. And just be there and see what happens in a lot of it. They’re like, you’re going to think about everything. The grocery list, like all do that you just said, like there’s all these thoughts are going to pop up. Get them out.

                      Unknown 1:01:47
                      Yeah. And just wait, that’s meditation is that’s what I think it was meditation right there. Just beings being still listening. Anything that takes you to that internal place where there’s calm, can be walking in nature, you know, there’s all kinds of ways you can do that.

                      Justin Trosclair 1:02:04
                      Yeah, for sure. It doesn’t have to be dark room. You know, I think that’s what people think of. And I think meditation is like, dark room. You know, something like there’s like, No, you could, like set up anywhere is really doing it. Yeah. So are you’ve already Yeah, you’ve dropped several great books on this already. But any other books, blogs, podcasts, including your own thing that you’re doing? That you secretly love? Or that you think, okay,

                      Unknown 1:02:30
                      I’m not big on podcasts, or blogs?

                      Unknown 1:02:35
                      I’m sorry, said yours, of course.

                      Justin Trosclair 1:02:40
                      I mean, I know I know where my battles are coming from. Okay.

                      Unknown 1:02:44
                      Yeah, I just one thing about my life is I’m very, very careful about my personal boundaries and what I allow in and what I spend time on, so I don’t feel my I just don’t feel my head with a lot of stuff.

                      Unknown 1:02:59
                      as other books when you were just talking just now about Eckart tolle a being on stage the book, loving what is came to mind by Byron Katie.

                      Unknown 1:03:09
                      And that’s a great way to be present in a she has four questions, one of which is, how would I feel? Or how would I be if I didn’t have that thought? So if you’re beating yourself up about something, have one never going to be able to start this business and be successful. Then one of her for questions is first, her first question is, is it true? Well, okay, well, I guess I don’t know that her second question is, is it really true? Because a lot of times people say, Well, of course, it’s true. Is it really true? The third one is, how would you think about that? If you could not think that thought? Well, I would just, I guess I’d just be in my current discouragement about it. But it doesn’t mean it’ll never happen for me, you know. And then the other one is, the last one is sort of a turnaround, oh, I will be be successful in my business.

                      Unknown 1:04:03
                      Right, I will, you know, I will make it work. So it’s very simple book, it’s about loving what is in any circumstance, you find yourself in finding a way that that’s just perfect.

                      Unknown 1:04:14
                      So highly recommend that she has another book called 1000 names for joy, which I also really, really like. So those are two that I could think of while you were talking. There’s tons of books. Oh, my gosh, I’ve had so many books help me through the years. But right now, it seems like those are the ones that are coming to mind.

                      Justin Trosclair 1:04:36
                      If this revolt, if my role is reverse, and someone asked me that question, I really don’t know what I’d say I used to keep a list of books that I read.

                      And then now, like, I don’t know what I was, if someone asked me that I was like, I really wouldn’t know. It just depends on what you’re referring exactly, sometimes.

                      Yeah. Well, anyway, what an amazing fight you gave today. One more time. How can people get in touch with you?

                      Unknown 1:05:04
                      Oh, beyond divorce.com. There’s a contact form on there, my phone numbers all over the place. So that’s my website beyond divorce, calm.

                      Justin Trosclair 1:05:16
                      People ask a good bit. How do you monetize a podcast? Well, if you have a big enough audience, you can just get advertisers and they just pay you a fee. Other times you get a little creative, like with affiliates, so you recommend a product and you get a commission but hopefully you actually enjoy the product that you’re recommending. And in this case, I do so a doctor’s perspective, net slash resources. You have all this stuff like blueberry for the hosting, that’s why I use set for set they’ve got these wild steel mesas while I don’t use that they do have these power bands. And they’re great for stretching and mobilizing joints that definitely locked up mentor box, get a book, listen to it by the author summarizing the book, but also things that they learned since they wrote it as well as a workbook to help you out. Got primal doc as a coupon code for primal health, bone broth, it’s paleo auto immune diet based you got no sugar, no soy, no, no allergies, no gluten, no dairy, and you can save 10% off with the promo code. You got Russell Brunson and Click Funnels if you ever want that calm secrets are experts secrets, if you click that link and get the book at a good price, as well as helped me out and the only that Amazon anything that the guests recommend, if you see a hot link, a blue link in the show notes, you click those and buy one of the books are under the products. I’ll give a piece of that. And I appreciate it. We’ve got new t shirts, we got to Louisiana theme. It’s my home state some kind of fond of it. We gotta make lemonade eliminates t shirt and of course some chiropractic shirts that are tongue in cheek, but hopefully you guys like them and gals. Also, if you’re into lessons learned in China, my first book exercises stretches help with numbness, budgeting, all that type of thing you can try for chapters free a doctor’s perspective, net slash chapters, also acupuncture if you like no needle acupuncture if you like that idea, if you always wanted to try it, but you don’t have one nearby or you just don’t have two hours a day to go you know commuting and getting the treatment everything is something you do at your house 30 minutes for a little over a week and you’ll see results now a doctor’s perspective net slash in a protocol as in needless acupuncture. So in a protocol and you get four chapters for free these complete with the words and the pictures and how to do it how when you should do it, all those types of questions, anxiety, insomnia, back pain, headaches. So check that out, you’ll be forwarded to a page will a video and I going to do is put your email in. And if you don’t like the upsell after that, just scroll to the bottom click know and then you’ll get the next page it’s where you can actually download them. Also, if you looked at doing an acupuncture pen, it’s kind of like a 10s unit you will use for your muscles but it’s been modified for similarly an acupuncture points off of a nine volt battery in got a dog doctor’s perspective, net slash Ethan you can buy that on the website as well. Thank you all so much for checking out all these resources. And if you have any questions, please let me know. rank as five stars leave a review greatly appreciated. As always, if you have any special guests that you would love to hear or a series that you would like reach out on the top right of the website, have all the social media icons, just click the one that your favorite and connect.

                      We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling two friends sharing on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guests. sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.

                      Transcribed by https://otter.ai

                      About the Author
                      Dr. Justin Trosclair, D.C., an expert in Chiropractic Care, has been focusing on back and neck pain relief for over 12 years and has delivered treatment to more than 6000 patients. With advanced training in treating disc derangement conditions, you can count on him to keep up to date with the latest research in physical medicine for spinal pain. He has 5 years of hospital experience in China, is currently working in Germany, and had a private practice in Colorado for 6 years. Dr. Trosclair hosts a doctor to doctor interview podcast called ‘A Doctor’s Perspective‘ with over 220 episodes. During his free time he wrote 3 books. Today’s Choices Tomorrow’s Health (rebooting health in 4 categories), a Do-It- Yourself acupressure book for 40 common conditions called Needle-less Acupuncture, and a step by step guide to look like a local for Chinese dinner culture called Chinese Business Dinner Culture. If you have kids, you may be interested in his 6 series tri-lingual animal coloring book series (english, spanish and chinese).