E 60 Emotional Trauma and the Role of Chinese Medicine CT Holman LAc

e60 a doctors perspective shownotes emotional trauma acupuncture CT Holman LAc sm

CT Holman LAc talks to Dr Trosclair on A Doctors Perspective Podcast

Did you know acupuncture and Chinese Medicine can be used to help heal from emotional trauma? CT Holman Lac joins the show to discuss his book plus facial and pulse diagnosis. Discover why qigong is so important in his life and teaching career.

CT Holman is the Director of Development for LotusInstitute.com , teaches internationally, has a private practice in Oregon called redwoodspring.com and is the author of Treating Emotional Trauma with Chinese Medicine. See the links at the bottom of the page for purchasing it. He went to school at American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in San Francisco and did extra training in the internal medicine department at a hospital in Chengdu China.

Did you know you can treat emotional trauma with Acupuncture and TCM? Learn how diagnosis from facial cues, pulses, gentle palpation, tongue presentation and more can differentiate the emotions after a trauma and soothe the trauma memory. CT Holman LAC author and teacher

Emotional trauma can be anything from anxiety, divorce, natural disaster and abuse etc. When you feel the surge of an emotional trauma, how do you focus on it, learn what it means and how to treat it?

TCM is founded on 5 elements. Learn how each element has an emotional component linked to it that can be manifested as an organ issue as well as a spiritual element tied to the organ. He gives examples.

If you ever wondered, what do these acupuncture and TCM doctor feel for when they are evaluating your wrist (radial) pulse?, then tune in because he gives a really detailed explanation. He does the Shen-Hammer Lineage Pulse evaluation.

Scattered qi … physiology is off tilt … what does that mean and why treat that first?

If you don’t believe in acupuncture, will it/ can it still work? Is it scientific?

Acupuncturists word of advice – keep studying and find what resonates with you. Learning doesn’t stop after your diploma. Keep your website current and learn how to do it yourself.

He teaches a lot of facial acupuncture, gentle palpation and qi gong as well as promoting his new book on Emotional Trauma.

Surprise: he is a drummer and released a healing drum cd. Resonating Vitality .

He talks a little about the journey of writing a book and how qi gong really helped him stay focused.


Fourth Uncle in the Mountain: biography of a Vietnam dad during the war and his Acupuncture lifestyle

Opening the Dragon Gate The Making of a Modern Taoist Wizard

Insight Timer for meditation

To buy book in America: Treating Emotional Trauma with Chinese Medicine

To buy book in Europe:

To buy book in Australia:

Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/60 here you can also find links to things mentioned and a transcript of the interview.

This episode is part of the Acupuncture 2018 Series. Put your email to get a Quick Reference PDF of all the episodes.

Full Transcript of the Interview <strong> (probably has some grammatical errors)</strong>. Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:03
Episode 60 emotional trauma and the role of Chinese medicine. I’m your host Dr. Justin Foursquare and today we are CT human perspective.

Join 2017 podcast Awards Nominated host Dr. Justin closely as he gets a rare to see, look into the specialties, all types of doctors and guess plus marketing, travel tips, struggles, goals and relationship advice.

Unknown 0:27
Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.

Justin Trosclair 0:31
Our guest today is the Director of Development for the lowest institute.com. He’s teaching internationally. He’s been to China three times to learn about Chinese medicine and acupuncture. He has some pretty new things I know we’ve kind of talked about facial acupuncture, but he looks at the face and pulses for diagnosis big believer in Qi Gong and how it affects his life. Plus he wrote a book on emotional trauma and the role of Chinese medicine and acupuncture. And that’s the big reason why we got him on the show today, I think you were really going to enjoy it. We dive deep into scattered ci and the five elements and I didn’t realize but you’ll learn as well that there’s an emotional component. There’s a spiritual component, all these things and he can help you with it. I hope you’re enjoying the acupuncture series. So far, it’s been great to see a different perspective on a doctor’s perspective. Remember, all the show notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective. NET slash six zero, you find the books that he mentioned his own book, links to purchase and a bunch of other things. Stay tuned after the show for special announcements, like my new book, as well as ranking us on iTunes and wherever you this podcast. Let’s go hashtag behind the curtain

live from China continuing or acupuncture spotlight month. We have an amazing guy from Oregon with Redwood spring. com. He has an amazing book called treating emotional trauma with Chinese medicine. And of course, that is the main reason why we got him on the show today, please, also the Director of Development for the lowest Institute teachers internationally, please welcome CT homerun.

Unknown 2:07
Thank you so much for having me today.

Justin Trosclair 2:10
Absolutely. Well,

I would definitely want to know, you know, start out How did you become interested in acupuncture. And if you want to bridge that right into the emotional part with Chinese medicine. And and just so the guests know, it might sound like we’re pitching his book, all non stop. But I’m intrigued by it. And that’s kind of the part of the show is I have questions I want answers. So we just talked about it. And if you end up buying the book, great if you just learned something that’s great, too. So without any more introduction, what got you involved in acupuncture?

Unknown 2:45
Well, really was I’ve always wanted to be in a helping field. And the philosophy is what really drew me to Chinese medicine. And I started studying in San Francisco, and then I went to China, and I’ve always been drawn to treating the emotions and trying to help balance them. So through my years of studying with different teachers, I really developed some treatments that are pretty effective for treating emotional trauma and singing dragon approached me to teach you to write a book and I decided to write this book train emotional trauma, Chinese medicine.

Justin Trosclair 3:17
Now, is this like a self help book? Or is this going to be a book that requires some self exploration, but then seeking a professional?

Unknown 3:25
Well, it’s really geared towards a wide audience. I mean, there’s a lot of technical information for Chinese medicine practitioners, but I also wrote it so patients could read it. Anybody interested in emotional trauma, trauma, emotional trauma in any fields could look at it and see Chinese medicines approach. So in the book, it talks about, you know, the etiology of emotional trauma, how we diagnose it in Chinese medicine with different techniques like facial diagnosis, pulse diagnosis, channel, pal, patient, the tongue diagnosis, and then how do we differentiate different emotions that people experience after trauma? How do we get them settled? How do we sue the trauma memory and going through the differentiation of those different patterns, what you’re going to see diagnostically and then the different acupuncture going to do the herbs and then you know, Warren, a Broadway, like you said, kind of a self exploration really trying to help understand how to process the old trauma and then even prevent impacts of future trauma. And when

Justin Trosclair 4:29
we say trauma, what are we talking about here, like depression, abuse?

Unknown 4:34
Well, emotional trauma really is a pretty wide reach. I mean, it can be anything from abuse, who childhood trauma from birth, trauma from a car accident, from a divorce, loss of a loved one natural disaster. So really, all these different things are now being validated and seen as it’s not we say, PTSD, or emotional trauma, and I’m just talking about combat trauma, we’re talking about a wide range of different shocks, or different events in people’s lives that have, you know, been pretty significant for them. Everybody experiences things differently. So, you know, one, you know, divorce to one person might not be as extreme to somebody else. And so we really try to help with them to get past that initial shock trauma that then sets up a whole process physiologically in the body that doesn’t allow the body to fully work it it’s very efficiently or its full capacity and it does limit the homeostatic balance. So when I say emotional trauma, it really it really covers quite a bit

Justin Trosclair 5:35
and the emotions that we’re talking anxiety, depression, anger, right? That’s things.

Unknown 5:41
Yeah. So we’re looking at you know, we talked with the five elements, the different emotions you can experience with each Oregon reach spirit of the Oregon so yeah, things like worry, and anger and depression and anxiety, all these different things that that manifest after an emotional trauma.

Justin Trosclair 6:00
You said you went to China before was it specifically to study and train or?

Unknown 6:07
Yes, so it was after it was as I was finishing up my degree at the American College of traditional Chinese medicine, San Francisco, I went to chunk do and so at University Hospital there, and I worked in internal medicine departments, and, you know, primarily working with herbs, and then I say, with an acupuncturist on the side there, and then I went back twice since then to Beijing to study was my teacher who recently just passed away, Dr. Juan g in Beijing.

Justin Trosclair 6:34
Not pretty wild, though, like in Changzhou in a hospital. And that’s kind of where I’m at right now as well, like, not in Chengdu but just a short 12 hour train ride. And I’m in there.

You just said internal medicine. Like that’s how integrated they expect acupuncture and herbs and things like that, like, sure we have Western medicine. But we also trust that our 5000 year old history right as well.

Unknown 6:58
Yeah, it was pretty amazing. Been working in the cardiology department and have the doctors I was working with, you know, prescribe herbs and also write a script for a pharmaceutical at the same time, or when I was working in the nephrology department. And they were interpreting the urine test and see what was going on, you know, the approach in the year and what would that mean in Chinese medicine. So I think it’s a real interesting place right now, where they’re really trying to bridge those gaps between Western and Eastern medicine.

Justin Trosclair 7:27
When you learning about like herbs and those types of things for emotional trauma for early anything, is it does it have to always go back to like the five elements style are, are there just kind of protocols, you know, drink the cinnamon tea for this boil some ginger for that or what? Well,

Unknown 7:43
I think that’s a really good question. Because in Chinese medicine, the classically it was always looked at as a ray of patterns and array of science that they gave you an idea of what’s really the pattern going on for anxiety. You know, there’s many formulas to treat anxiety, there’s many accurate prescription that treat anxiety, but it’s really identified for that person, what is their constitutional makeup, and what are the specific imbalances for them, so, absolutely differentiating for the herbs and the acupuncture and the lifestyle and nutrition and all these things that you then recommend.

Justin Trosclair 8:18
So you mentioned the pulse. You mentioned the tongue. I’ve had a guy not talked about it before, he was asking me a couple of questions. And he checked the polls and was just kind of sitting there for about a minute. What other things are you looking for? Because obviously it’s a Westerners were like, Dude, come on,

Unknown 8:32
what do you feel like smoking mirrors sometime when you see some guys still your pulse river? Yeah, there’s quite a few things you feel with the pulse. And so there’s different posts, lineages, and that’s something I’ve really been involved with in terms of study with different teachers is trying to study with teachers who are holding a certain lineage, there’s many different styles of diagnosing the pulse. There’s like there’s Tibet and styles is Chinese styles is Korean styles. Japanese and I study with this one style. It’s called the Shanghai pulse style. It’s quite prolific the United States and it’s quite, it’s quite a bit in Europe as well. And it’s Dr. Dr. Shen, you held this lineage and Dr. In the United States who psychologist, psychiatrist, actually Leon hammer, and there’s a system that you use when you feel the pulse. So you’re feeling multiple pulses. So you check the radial artery, you’re feeling for the strength you’re feeling for the rate and the rhythm, but there’s also qualities there might be a quality of we say slippery or quality of choppy and that might be on the overall Paul’s. But then within the radial artery, there’s several pulses that relate to the Oregon so there’s a pulse for the long as opposed for the heart as the pulse for the the spleen. So the liver so we look at each one of these Oregon’s and then decide what’s going on with that Oregon’s polls to understand better of the overall makeup and the overall balance of the emotions and the organs.

Justin Trosclair 10:00
So you have a system like you, when you first start, your brain is thinking X, Y, and Z. And then once you’ve gotten an idea for that, you might jot it down. And then you’re like, All right, let me think about the Liverpool’s with that What is that supposed to feel like versus what I’m feeling and then all into the kidney, then on to the next one.

Unknown 10:16
Yeah, correct. So, you know, really, for me, I try to keep myself pretty open when someone first walks to the clinic. Because one thing in the book that I talked about another diagnostic technique that I propose is intuitive in the spirits of the Oregon so in Chinese medicine, we have the five elements, you know, you’ve heard of water and wood and these kind of things. Well, with each Oregon, there’s also a spirit that’s involved, there’s emotions involved. So like for the for the kidney, which is the water element typically will see fear or willfulness in that in that organ system, that would be more of how the emotion is presenting, or the reaction happening. But then there’s a spirit that goes with each one of these organs. So for instance, but the kidney we call it the journey. And what that really is, is about is somebody will, their, their, their understanding of their life path or kind of their life force going through, versus the liver would be associated lot of times the emotion of anger, or rage or conflict, fighting this kind of thing. But the liver, the liver spirit is called the Hoon, which is really about courage and the ability to make a choice and to act on a choice at the proper timing. So they are a little different, the spirit versus the emotion. So when someone walks to the door, you can sometimes I’m sure you felt this to you feel an energy from someone. And for instance, if they’re their lung energy, or their Po, which is the spirit of the lung is we don’t feel like they don’t have very clear boundaries, I feel like their you know, their boundaries aren’t there. And they are, they’re not fully within their body kind of rooted in planet to the earth, so to speak. So that’s something you can feel rather than gates so I can keep myself pretty open. When someone walks in to see what I’m feeling. I look at their face their face, till so much it can tell you about their past, present, and future can tell you about the state of the Oregon so I can tell you about their their personality. And so I just kind of see how things go. And I first looked at, of course, we asked questions and see what’s happening. So somebody came in and said, they did experience an emotional trauma, I’ll start thinking like you said, Oh, how’s their livers there? Do I feel any sense of their inability to be courageous and to make a choice and to make an action and move forward or they just kind of feeling confined in their space? And then Am I seeing something maybe on the face that relates to anger or depression, maybe I’ll see some shadowing in their temples. And then at that point is when I get them on the table, and I started doing more exam like, I’ll check their channels, I might feel long delivery channels, see, do I feel nodules at say, liver three, or when I go to check the post, I’ll feel there post and say, Who is it more of a tenseness in the pulse of the liver? Is it more in gorge with delivers just almost like flooded and with all these different signs and all these different symptoms that I’m hearing, I start putting a mental checklist together and see, okay, all these different symptoms that they’re talking about all these different sides that I’m seeing what is kind of the common theme? Is it something to do with their liver? Or is it something more to do with the earth element and their digestion. And then from there, I could start crafting point prescription and then a prescription for their herbs.

Justin Trosclair 13:36
So you got to look at a are trying to calm it down. We’re trying to increase it, you know, basically emotions as well. Okay. And then when you’re looking at all the points, that’s where training comes in, there are certain meridians are certain points that are kind of common for treating the fresh like these are the depression issues. But depression could also be stagnant liver, so sure, we gotta look at all these points together and then try to fix it again, all at the same time.

Unknown 14:02
Yeah, lots of things to juggle. But you know, really, for me, when I’m treating emotional trauma, what I find is when someone has an emotional trauma, or that shock, it scatters the energy. So no matter what their initial constitutional makeup is, what’s going on with their balance of their organs. At the time of the trauma, no matter what it scatters there, ci we say so, you know, your cheat and your your whole body is running a certain homeostatic rhythm things are, you know, moving forward. And when you have that trauma, it just shocks everything and scatters the energy where things are not operating at their full potential, their physiology is compromised. So one of the first things I really need to do is grab them and get them centered and really in their body. And so I have a specific protocol that I do for that. So a lot of ways when they come in, if, if I am training for emotional trauma, I have a kind of a stage treatment. So one of the first things I do is for everyone is I say, gather their ci, and then once she has gathered their in their body that I moved to the other steps,

Justin Trosclair 15:10
that’s pretty good. You have to believe in acupuncture part to work

Unknown 15:13
no. And so the easiest, easiest argument for that is, it works on animals and animals have no clue what’s going on. So, you know, if your dog gives him a static, I guess, acupuncture gets better, they didn’t believe in it. So that’s how we can kind of just put that aside. You know, like with any medicine, you know, if someone is open and receptive and believes and trust who’s treating them, it’s going to help with the treatment. But you know, people come in all the time. I have a wide variety I’m practicing in Salem, Oregon, it’s in a rural Valley area. We’re not that far from Portland. But you know, it’s still it’s there’s a wide variety of folks here. And there’s some people who really question Chinese medicine, and they it’s kind of the last ditch effort, you know, they’ve tried everything under the sun, and they end up at my door and say, Well, nothing else works. So I’ll do this because my friend said it worked for them. And they’re a lot of times they pretty skeptical and they start feeling resolved. So Wow, something’s going on here. And one thing I do, and I’m sure you use to, I can tell from your your way I was looking to their podcast is all kind of teaching. And so I really believe like, you know, I teach International, I teach students, I teach lay people I teach all over, but I also teach my patients. And so as we’re treating as I’m treating it, as I’m doing my diagnostics, I talked them just like I was talking to you about how I’m looking at the pulse looking at the face, because I think it’s helpful. They understand this is actually a scientific medicine. It’s just a different paradigm from Western medicine.

Justin Trosclair 16:46
Yeah, I think now, that’s the one of the points, I would like to ask you some of the most common misconceptions, kind of addressing some of them. But when you start talking, if you get some of this completely not into acupuncture, Eastern medicine, they’re just like, Look, I just don’t have any other options.

Do you have to tailor the words that you use? So it doesn’t seem so quote out there, right, for these people are they just like

a weird, but I don’t know, after a couple of weeks to really work, that’s fine enough for me,

Unknown 17:15
Well, I do try to tailor it for each person, you know, when I go and each person’s little different. So for some people, I can kind of jump to a place of talking about, you know, working with the spirits and working with that kind of more energy aspect of the body. But a lot of people will say, specifically, you know, working with interstitial fluid, working with connective tissue, you know, that’s what the channels are about. So, I’ll try to frame it in, whatever, wherever there’s, wherever they’re at, I try to meet them there. And then, you know, start bringing more, you know, throwing more of the esoteric terms in there yet, you know, after a couple weeks, maybe they’re more used to what I’m saying I can talk more at length about more than Chinese medical term, so to speak.

Justin Trosclair 17:56
Is there any other misconceptions that you’d like to squash we have you on the show?

Unknown 18:01
Well, I mean, I think that was the main thing is the the aspect of it’s not scientific and that it’s something that just, oh, you know, when they were you know, 5000 years ago soldiers in battle at an arrow hit him in the leg and all sudden their stomach got better. So that’s why acupuncture works and you know, I even you know, for the longest time was ready Well, how did they really understand the body? How did this did they just start experimenting but really for one of understanding from my teachers, especially my she gone teacher teach me divination and also on astrology, Master junction, whoo, teaches all over the world. He explains it that, you know, a few key Gong, when you’re in your meditative state, you can feel the channel pathways you can sense where the organs are the feelings, the spirits, of the organs, and you’re able to tune into the way the body’s working. I mean, 3000 years ago, they knew there were nine planets out there, how do they not without telling scope, so there’s, when you get into that deep meditative state, you can actually connect with something bigger than yourself, and also see that micro system and that

Unknown 19:10
the way things are functioning inside.

Justin Trosclair 19:13
So there’s a, it does take a little bit of training. And like, if you are inside, like meditation, which is pretty popular right now. And you might be sitting with your feelings, and you notice a tightness, maybe by your liver, or tightness in your chest, or some other kind of feeling, once you’re trying to like, Oh, those actually were feelings that I could have done something about our MIT more than just what it felt like on the surface.

Unknown 19:33
Yeah, you know, I thought I actually talked quite a bit about that when I’m working with people. Because when you feel that emotional trauma, if it’s not processed at the time, which a lot of times it’s not, it ends up cycling in your body. And that’s where they get the PTSD idea. And so something might trigger you say, you’re in a car accident with red truck, you know, 10 years ago, and then you’re driving down the street, you see a red truck pulling out, you’re going to think, Oh, it’s going to hit me all that just floods right back, that limbic system gets charged, it sends a signal to the brain stem to the body, and all sudden you’re back in that sympathetic state of Oh, my gosh, somebody can be in a car accident. And so you get this, I call it the surge of the emotional trauma. And so the second stage of my treatments really are about soothing that search. But when people feel that surge, I asked them, I say, Wait, you know, when you feel that, so, okay, but try to identify where it is. Are you feeling it in your chest? Are you feeling in your stomach? And not just where you’re feeling it? But what color is it? What shape? Is it? Is it heavy? Is it like, is it does it have a border to it and have people sit with that feeling and, you know, really experience it. Because typically all of us we feel something uncomfortably want to get away. We’re going to get on a smartphone or color friend or watch TV as I say, just sit with it for a moment. And then feel your hands and feet and you’ll feel tingling and what it is your body’s way of helping you to kind of flush and clear that energy. So that’s what I you know, I do a lot of work with people in terms of just acupuncture and Chinese herbs. I also do a lot of self care techniques. And in the book, there’s quite a few self care techniques. This is one of the techniques it’s transforming that emotional search. And it’s just like you said, you know, people feel these things in their body. And once they stop and breathe, and they can just sense it, their body has an innate ability to clear it. Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 21:24
yeah, that’s a good but like I said, if you’re not aware of it, you won’t even know that you should do something about it sometimes,

Unknown 21:30
right? And that’s pretty common for a lot of us, we’re just kind of on autopilot a lot of ways. And, you know, until something really shocks you again, are you see you get triggered by the emotional trauma, you might not really even realize it’s there. But I see emotional trauma really being the underlie have a lot of physiological imbalances. So a lot of the, you know, internal medicine disorders say leaky gut, or asthma or

Unknown 21:58
any of these type of physical symptoms, you know, chronic pain, there are a lot of times is a tie into an emotional imbalance. And it could be from an emotional trauma. So it’s something that I always want to look at to

Justin Trosclair 22:11
when we’re going on this path, the most common maybe top three type of patients that you do see that come in, what are they coming in for?

Unknown 22:18
Well, I mean, besides chronic pain, I mean, Chinese medicine, acupuncture is really been accepted by the western medical field for treating pain. So I get a lot of referrals from doctors and chiropractors and he surpassed and these kinds of people for they come to me for pain. And that’s one of the common things that I think that one of the number one things we will go to any doctor for is for pain. So I see a lot of pain, a pain conditions. And then I would say, after that, I see quite a few people coming in for emotional condition. So that could range of anything from anxiety, depression, feelings of anger fleet of worry, and then another thing that I see a lot and I really trying to help a lot with, or people just feeling like they’re not at their full potential, they feel, oh, I’ve done on my path. Or I feel like, you know, I’m not quite sure where I want to go next. Or, you know, I’m in this job, but I don’t think it’s right for me, this kind of thing. And there’s quite a bit Chinese medicine can do to help with number one, helping them so they can feel their full potential to walk their destiny, but even help them identify, you know, what talents and abilities do they have to share with the human family? So,

Justin Trosclair 23:30
let’s take a step back. Okay, you’re gonna we like in this part of the interview where we like to ask questions about giving back a little bit. So acupuncturists who are starting out or maybe they’ve been in business for a while, but they’re really they’re struggling, what type of advice could you give them?

Unknown 23:46
Well, I think for me, it would be to continue studying the medicine and to see what resonates with you. So when I first graduated, I took a lot of see us and said, with different practitioners, because, you know, when you first get out of school, least from my experience, and talking to other people, you know, you get some, you know, kind of Beginner’s luck, thanks, start really going pretty well, you get some really amazing cases, I had a guy come in, who is who is eyes for Christ, and he couldn’t see I did apply that one treatment, all of a sudden, he can see the next day, you know, something like that, just like, you know, some just amazing thing, or just Beginner’s luck, really, it was nothing. I just, you know, trying to points and it worked. But then you kind of, I don’t know, for me, I hit kind of a slump, I started feeling like, you know, treatments are working as well, you know, what’s going on. And so it pushed me to train more. And so I started singing with Dr. Juan G, and learning channel patient more in depth and learning point prescriptions. And that helped me okay to set this feels good to me. And then I started to other teachers and some teachers, I really resonated with some I didn’t. And what I found through that process was I really discovered what was best for me, what’s it, I feel like I could be best in the channel. In Chinese medicine, it’s pretty, it’s pretty, you know, pretty broad medicine, there’s many different approaches, there’s many styles, just like with any medicine, it’s that way. So I really encourage people to explore and to see what resonates for them. And that I think, might help lead them to really discovering their passion for the medicine.

Justin Trosclair 25:18
You make a good point in chiropractic with so many techniques, and how to actually adjust, right, and some people hate instrument adjusting, they think is an abomination.

And other people, they just they usually completely emotional technique. And these, they barely even touch you. And you’re like I said, You’re like, I don’t think that did anything you barely touch. And anyways, point is if you mentor with somebody, and they were like, Oh, I am the guru at x, y, and z, and you start trying to do with it, you just like I can’t get behind it. You don’t believe in it. Or you just not maybe not good at

Unknown 25:52
it. Or you just don’t see the results.

Justin Trosclair 25:54
Your practice is going to suffer. And then all of a sudden, you go to a technique seminar, you learn a new one you like, wow, this is exactly the style. I like the practice. I like the way that my hands are shape because I don’t have big hands. So maybe, maybe your technique is great when you have basketball. But I don’t have that. So I have to try something else. Yeah,

Unknown 26:11
yeah, I think that’s exactly the same with Chinese medicine. Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 26:15
all right. Let’s keep looking. Keep learning, like

marketing. And know you got to probably do some kind of marketing. Maybe referrals are your best best bet. Which is it is for everybody. But you have one or two marketing tips and tricks that we can help get our practices Fuller.

Unknown 26:30
One thing that I found, you know, I came to say hello. And there weren’t that many acupuncture. So, so I got lucky. You know, there was already people had waiting lists going. And, you know, I came in and fortunately, was a doctor here, who recently just passed away, Luis de Silva, who were, there was an MD, and then really had a passion for Chinese medicine and studied, studied in depth, and was a major force in Salem for education. So she went out and educated not only doctors, but the general public. And when I got here, people already knew about acupuncture. This was, you know, 17 years ago, and, oh, they, you know, they knew it was so great, you know, because it is, it’s not, you know, it’s not San Francisco. It’s not Los Angeles. So that helped. But what I felt really helped me was going out and meeting people and meeting other practitioners and trading with other practitioners and seeing their techniques of them to experience my techniques. And that way, they could trust me to refer patients to me, and I could understand what they were doing, I can refer people to them. And, you know, it’s stale, at least it’s, it’s, you know, it’s 300,000 people, but it still has a small town sense to it. And word of mouth is pretty strong in this town. And I think one way to get that to happen to kind of catapult you into getting your self more in the circle is going out and meeting people, it can be intimidating at first, you know, to cold call other chiropractors, acupuncturists or their nature pass around these are just call them and, you know, talk with them, and if you don’t actually treat them, or we get a trade, maybe just have lunch, that that really helped me, I would say, that was, that was actually the main thing that I did.

Unknown 28:06
But then also, you know, in the electronic age doing making a website, I’ve had maybe six or seven different versions of my website since I first got here, I had a website when I first got here, and I was one of the only people who had a website for Chinese medicine. Now, of course, everybody has a website, but you know, that website is way out of date now, so I had to keep, you know, keeping that up to date and keeping it current. And just on that note, you know, I was able to finally learn before I was really dependent on my webmaster today, any kind of changes that needed to make but you know, I think by keeping you know, I, you know, I’m going to put this podcast on my website tomorrow when I find it exactly what this is going to air and have those things you know, there for people and when the book came out, but the book on there, so I would, I think that’s a nice thing to have to is keep the keep the website up to date, and try to make it as user friendly as possible beyond WordPress. I’m actually on Squarespace. Squarespace. Okay. And it’s this friend of mine fruity Ruiz. He’s the one who showed me He’s my webmaster. And it’s, it’s used by a lot of artesian restaurants, designers, photographers. It’s a little more artsy, but I really like it. And I just had some recent feedback from people who found me on Google. I don’t, I don’t usually get people from the internet. But they all really liked the website, really easy to use. You guys seem really nice. And it seemed friendly. So I like that. But I’ve seen some great WordPress websites as well. You know,

Justin Trosclair 29:33
you made a comment about visiting other doctors and treating them as always get a little nervous when another I’m like, they judge me. I hope this goes correctly.

I tend to always learn a little something like may not use it all the time. But it’ll it’ll click for the right patient. Yeah, like I felt this doctor do that to me. I think that’s what he was doing on the asked or whatever. Yeah, it’s just like, wow,

Unknown 29:55
you can learn some new things, too. I think it’s great. It’s intimidating at first. But yeah, I’ve learned things even from coming factories, just maybe how they run their business or how they interact with patients. It’s great to have that community effort. Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 30:06
what happens in five years? Where are you seeing yourself or you seen acupuncture?

Unknown 30:10
Well, for me, I have just released this book. And so my goal is to get out there and really teach about emotional trauma. I’ve been teaching for the last I guess, five years now teaching facial diagnosis, General patient and she gone which I do incorporate a course with emotional trauma, but it’s something that you know, is becoming more recognized and something’s been more validated for people. So I’m hoping to get out there and teach us internationally.

Justin Trosclair 30:40
Now, what do you think internationally? What does that mean to you? Well,

Unknown 30:43
yeah, so I recently was t I’ve been to Europe three times last three years teaching at the TCM Congress and Rothenberg which give it a Rothenberg, it’s, it’s a beautiful town, it’s out in the middle of nowhere. It’s a capital city, but they have this international Chinese medicine conference there every year. And so for the last few years, I’ve taught there, I’ve taught in Denmark, I’ve taught at Mexico, I’ve done Sweden, and so I just heard from might potentially be teaching in Australia. So for me, it’s just getting getting out there. And, of course, teaching United States to and now with the podcasts like, this is great. This is kind of a great way to kick off 2018. I really appreciate you having me on the show. Because I do this is another way to get the word out without having to actually travel. So yeah, for me, I guess just in all those different ways, getting out to the public.

Justin Trosclair 31:34
While I was very excited, I feel self plug, I guess. But one of the guests was his event, he sells cold lasers. And I happened to look at my email today, which is January and I was in their huge weekly email, blast blast,

Unknown 31:49
okay. And they just,

Justin Trosclair 31:50
it was one of the five things that they cover. And I was like,

Unknown 31:52
hey, look at their headquarters to say,

Justin Trosclair 31:54
like, you know, you can do all kinds of things. Once you are on a podcast, you can market it, you can Yeah, some that you can do. And I don’t think a lot of people do enough and I know I’ve been on other shows, and you know, I’ve got other things going on, but I fell victim to the same thing is like, you could promote that to him. I’m talking to you. I’m not saying you got to promote it for a pocket for guests who are listening. Like if you get on a show, like you can use that as a marketing tool. I’m getting invited to do things right. I know I’m doing like, why would they call me if I didn’t know what else do

Unknown 32:22
Yeah, well, it’s great. You know, this is this is all this the second podcast I’ve ever done. I just interviewed about a week ago and it didn’t make me think Wow, this is great because I’m not sure your podcasts where it’s at least I could have a link from my website to your podcast and then people can hear it at any time you know, Oh, I can’t I’m not available this weekend to go see you teach at a school Well guess what, you know you can download this and listen to it anytime. So

Unknown 32:48
yeah, it’s a great way to go get your feet wet. like who is this guy right here we listen to like

Justin Trosclair 32:54
I think a vibe with this guy so well we’re rocky punctures were Solo Solo clinics, how in the world able to take vacation in Are you able to take more,

Unknown 33:08
I try to keep everything pretty balanced. I take about a total of maybe a month off every year, you know, through different long weekends, or a couple weeks here and there. And I really try to strive to make sure I have time not only for me to go on vacation. But also to study with my teachers. I have four different teachers I’m currently studying with, you know, then I have a family I have my my partner. So just making sure I have that type of time. And I also try to keep my work I work for and a half days a week, five days, you know, five days a week of nine to five. And I have a pretty busy life besides me. Now, with this book, being data guys say my whole life feels completely open now. But you know, I also played music and I’m in a band. And I also am a DJ, I volunteer at a radio station. And so I tried to make sure I have time for all my different things to keep, be balanced. Because I think it’s important as we all know, to keep that time for self cultivation. And for for fun. So let’s try to get the mix

Justin Trosclair 34:09
that I see that you released the drum CD.

Unknown 34:12
Yeah, so one thing I did, it was in the summertime I one thing so I’m a drummer. And I’ve been playing in a rock band since I’ve been a teenager and I still play in a rock and roll band. And that’s kind of my young to my yet of doing Chinese medicine. And but I’ve always been into love drama. And in fact, when I chose Chinese medicine, I was thinking this would be my profession, you know, I could do this for money, but I’ll really be able to do my drums on the side that’s why I love that I love Chinese medicine just as much but I was really finding myself in this dichotomy like you know was rockin roller by night acupuncturist by day, and I’ll certainly How can I brings us together. So I started setting with the drum teacher who just drum healing. And now I use drumming in the clinic. So I use the frame or a hoop drum. You see this talk with Native Americans, but it’s common in many committee, indigenous cultures. They use it in China, the US in Africa. And so what I’ll do is I’ll do I’ll put the acupuncture points in, and then I’ll drum over the patient, I’ll have the frame drum and just hover over the patient with the drum. And I’ve been fighting amazing results. It really helps a lot. And people were saying, well, I love this drumming, but I want to be able to listen to it. So I went in the studio this guy usually record rock music with and we had four weeks on each drama had this huge Chinese Thunder drawn by about my coop drum. And they’re about to jump a in there. And I did the kind of like this journey. But I also did the five element beat. So there’s a beat for each organ system, so to speak. And so I recorded those. And it’s called resonating vitality. And it is available on Amazon. And it’s see period. T Holeman but my name is Zoe CT home. But anyway, yeah, so I did record that CD. And it’s been doing doing pretty well. People have really started effective

Justin Trosclair 35:57
who won’t spend too much time on that do it? That sounds pretty well.

Unknown 36:00

Justin Trosclair 36:02
that’s kind of cool. You know, man of many hats here. Yeah. So when we’re talking significant others partners, is there a way we can keep the love alive? So we don’t just end up sad and hurting people that we love?

Unknown 36:13
Right? That’s a very good point. That’s why I’m taking my girlfriend Tammy to Hawaii and a couple weeks. Yeah, yeah, I think it’s, it is very important to keep that balance. You know, fortunately, Tammy is also practice Chinese medicine. But I that’s why for me when I work, you know, nine to five. When I close that door at five o’clock. That’s it. I’m done with Chinese medicine in terms of, you know, working with my business, working with patients, I want to be home and be present. So be present with Tammy, be present with my kids, and then make sure we have time to to communicate. I think communications is the key. And you know, if you’re so busy, you can’t even talk about stuff that I think is when problems can arise weird in a good bit. Yeah, it’s

Justin Trosclair 36:57
all about communication.

Well, you might have one of these, it could be morning lunch, or even a nighttime routine, as one of my recent guests had mentioned, anything that grounds you and excite you for the rest of your day so you can stay focused?

Unknown 37:13
Well, there’s a few things I do. When I wake up in the morning after I shower, I usually do yoga, stretching, calisthenics and meditation. This isn’t too long and thing it’s maybe 20 minutes, and then

Unknown 37:26
when I get to work, I do another It’s itchy. Gong meditation, it’s called to Nashi. But anyways is bringing clear energy into each organ. And then I take a nap every day. I highly recommend naps. I think now, sir. Wonderful. And I take after lunch as you take a walk. And then I take a nap. And so I kind of resets me again. And then when I come home after work, I do this thing called shaking she gone where you’re literally bouncing up and down and shaking all these different joints. I did that for about 20 minutes. And that’s a way to kind of shake off all the old energy of the day, so that I can be clear for the evening. So I have a few of those things. And they all do seem to Yeah, they stimulate me. And they also helped me to feel clear and grounded. And, you know, really, so I could be president be excited for treating and for whatever else I’m doing.

Unknown 38:11
I don’t think people realize

Justin Trosclair 38:12
this. I can’t, you know, I’m living in China, and some of the things that you’re talking about people with, it’s just part of their lifestyle. Like when they’re at a grocery store, if they have a certain symptom that they’re feeling, they may not eat certain things that day, they won’t buy certain things right there on their period. Right? They won’t eat you don’t eat ice cream and make it worse. Exactly. So you know, so when you’re talking about these things, we might look like, well, you’re doing a lot of stuff all day you like, well, it’s just it’s part of a routine is just like, well, you might go to the gym and push some weights and do 30 minutes of cardio. Well, it’s very similar. It’s just like, how you set your life up. And obviously, in China, it’s easier because they grew up with that. It’s just common knowledge things you do in your life. That seems so odd. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it’s what you learn. And then you see it practice and you see the results that you just like, I’m gonna just keep doing this.

Unknown 38:58
Yeah, I would say that’s the reason why is it will do this book Is he gone. I mean, I was working in the same about hours while I was writing this book for the last couple years, but also at the same time writing. So I would be basically writing through the weekend and sometimes in the evenings. And I keep continually thinking master will for his teaching. Because that she gone kept my energy, it kept me strong, can be clear. So I could have the time mentally to even take something like that on. So you’re right. I mean, in China, there’s a lot of people doing she going, I mean, you see it more the older generations, the younger generations, maybe not so much, but it is something that I think is part of a lifestyle. And like you said, nutrition, like in the book, I talked quite a bit about different nutritional ideas, general ideas, and it’s specific for each person’s makeup, how they can help their body to feel strong and not impacted by, you know, emotional, we, you know, winds that come through the body or old traumas is kind of thing.

Unknown 40:00
How many hours would you say a day that you have to work on your book, oh, man, I don’t even want to know. Because

Unknown 40:07
I would spend probably a good 20 hours every weekend on the book. And then during the day, you know what I’m treating patients, I treat two to three people at our but I still find some time to have a little extra. So maybe be looking at something for some quick editing. So I don’t know, I spent probably a good 3040 hours Well, maybe I’ll just say maybe 30 hours a week on the book for you know, I was writing solidly for a year. And then after that, you know, I turned this manuscript in, back in March, but there’s a lot that goes in production, you know, seeing the dragon, I feel very lucky to be with them as a publisher, because, you know, they then took it and, you know, did some editing with it, and help with the layout and the cover, and it’s quite a whole process. I didn’t realize how much it all took, but when I was in the throes of it, it was, it was pretty intense. Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 41:01
yeah, I will say when you get a publisher, I didn’t I self published but there’s so much editing. You gotta wait, you just sitting there waiting? Yeah. And they finally gave it back to you. And you’re like, wait, what, how much you need me to redo?

Unknown 41:13
Yeah, I was really blessed. I was, you know, before I started the book, I said, You know, I had to write, you know, let alone know what I’m going to say. So I kind of put it out there as I can be really great if I could find someone that I could maybe mentor with or to do with and I just kind of fell out of the sky this guy who is an English professor decided to do all the reading and edit for the book. So I other people in the field like master will Lillian bridges, and Jason Roberts and you also read it and help me with editing. But having Rick from the beginning. I mean, we went through so many drafts, but it’s coming here the singing dragon Actually, there weren’t a ton of edits but it’s interesting once they get it how much they have to do with the you know, I thought again, with this beautiful layout or so I was so proud of myself look so great. I spend this time with the tables and everything and shading and then they took it and took it to a whole nother level. So it’s a Yeah, it’s it’s, it’s a such a group effort and I feel so grateful to have so many people who contributed and I mean, it’s, it’s a long list of people that really helped me and so it’s really a group effort where this book came from.

Justin Trosclair 42:21
Alright, so besides CT Homans amazing book what other kind of books blogs or podcasts Do you see you really love And would you recommend for other people to look at

Unknown 42:32
well there’s one book I really really like and it’s what inspired me to go back into depth with my my studies and that’s called fourth uncle in the mountain by I’m going to probably not say his name correctly, but Kong Bundy and who’s from Vietnam, it was co written with Marjorie P. var. And so it’s called fourth article in the mountain. And it’s an amazing biography, Kwanzaa dad, and they were in Vietnam during the Vietnam War. And he was practicing classical Chinese medicine. And it was just like you said, a lifestyle, it wasn’t just, you know, oh, I do this. And on the side, something else. He’s, he’s all completely immersed in it. And it wasn’t just about doing acupuncture. But really the spiritual aspect of Chinese medicine that I think in some ways, has maybe been lost a bit in modern times. So it also really speaks about the depth of what we do diagnosis how much we can really see in terms of the pattern it’s currently going on. But you can really see the past belief systems and the past

Unknown 43:45
patterns that really set the stage for what’s currently happening, and where things are going in the future. So I really recommend that book. I also recommend another book called The making of the daoists to wizard and is really about a

Unknown 44:04
real person from the Dragon Gate sect, and the john mountains in China and his training as a Qi Gong Master, and all the things that the body is truly capable of that sometimes seems unbelievable, but studied with Master move, I know that these things are possible. And it inspired me in terms of self cultivation, because that’s something I think for all of us, we’re always striving for, you know, trying to better ourselves and learn ways to really get into the moment and to be able to be the best person we can be. So there’s some really interesting self cultivation techniques in there as well.

Justin Trosclair 44:43
Are you ready for the final

Unknown 44:45
wonderful question? This? Okay,

Justin Trosclair 44:48
we got our favorite phone apps, what are you finding, whether it’s business or pleasure that you’re going to and other people should probably check out as well? So like I

Unknown 44:55
say, I’ve not that techie.

Unknown 45:01
My second podcast. Good one. Oh, yeah. So for me, I was thinking about saying, Okay, what kind of, I know you To be honest, you know, you told me some of these questions in advance. I was thinking, my favorite phone app. But I was joking with Tammy is like, gosh, I don’t know, Facebook. And I don’t even really like Facebook, to be honest. But I use it because it really helps me to connect with people for teaching. But there was an app that I was using for a while called the insight timer. And that’s basically a meditation app. And the reason why I liked it so much as a selection of all these different Bell tones that you can use for when your meditation I was finished, but they have some good meditations on there as well. And some good guided things. That’s something that I found pretty helpful, just called insight timer. So

Justin Trosclair 45:50
not everybody has an answer. Yeah,

Unknown 45:52
not the best finale I guess you’re looking for. But that’s that for me, is I guess where it’s at?

Justin Trosclair 45:59
Hey, there’s no wrong answer.

Well, how can people find out more information about you the book and all that jazz?

Unknown 46:09
Well, there’s my website, like you said, www dot redwoods, spring.com just singular spring Redwood spring. And on there, there’s links to my teachers to

Unknown 46:23
the My Teachings, my seminars, this kind of thing. You can also find the book on Amazon, it’s on Amazon in the States. It’s on Amazon, UK. For people in Australia. There’s China books, that’s how you can get the book. The CD is also on Amazon. And for those of you interested in so my teaching with Lotus Institute, there’s Lotus Institute. com and you can go there to find out what Lillian’s she’s my official diagnosis teacher who now we co teach classes all over the world. And so there’s going to be a listing of classes there as well.

Justin Trosclair 47:00
quick follow ups Do you have to be an acupuncturist to take these Lotus classes

Unknown 47:05
know. And so that’s interesting with these classes, we’ve had people from all walks of life, I mean, counters, chiropractors, you know, people to help feel but even people, one of the one woman she restores art, so she’ll take a piece of art that has, you know, been destined, been left in a garage or something for a long time and actually bring it back to its original quality. So, you know, it’s a wide variety of people, and I gotta say, the classes I teach as well, I teach the shamanic drumming classes. That’s for all folks. I also teach facial diagnosis for all folks. So a lot of these seminars are, are open. I do teach some of their specific for Chinese medicine practitioners. I teach some that are just for doctoral students. It just depends. And so that you see delineated on my website and also on Lotus Institute.

Justin Trosclair 47:51
Okay, and then what’s Redwood spring

Unknown 47:53
Redwood spraying. So I’m from California, I was I’m originally from Southern California, and then I moved to Northern California. And that’s where there’s a huge standard redwoods. And I would go to a great area in Northern California, there’s a campground, they’re called prairie Creek. And it’s a it’s a beautiful place where there are there’s really a pray with L there’s a herd of elk there and they will walk to the campground, it’s amazing. But there’s all these great trails. And so all these trails, I would I just really did a lot of meditation, lot of lot of reflection and you know, many of the Native American tribes that were in the California Coastal area with think of the redwoods as their church. Because in the redwoods are so dense the tree canopy so dense there’s not a lot of things growing are living in the redwood forest so it’s very quiet so I always thought of that as being just as beautiful place for peace and for relaxation harmony so I wanted something with Redwood and that I found I sent us trail covered with spring as as perfect as a great ring to it and spray like spring to life but also that water they giving you that that nourishment so

Justin Trosclair 49:03
well. I’m glad I asked him cuz that’s that’s pretty cool story.

Well, thanks again for coming on the show.

Unknown 49:10
Yeah, thank you so much. This was really fun. I really had a great time tonight

Justin Trosclair 49:16
Everybody. Hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. want to make you aware of a couple of things a doctor’s perspective. net, we got a few things to talk about. We’ve got some free handouts for nerve pain, numbness in the arms and legs and also a 12 exercises if you experienced back pain and want your core stronger experience and neck and shoulder tightness and pain. These are free to download Okay, it’s under Resources. Also under the Resources tab is my new book Neil is acupuncture self treatment God for 40 common conditions stop the hurting with no needles or meds, your roadmap to self treat your condition painlessly we’re talking things like anxiety insomnia, neck pain back pain possibly some knee issues stomach issues, tired arm and leg pain, even a little bit of sciences to take all those such things this book really is for those they’re busy they don’t have time to draw it to an office spend an hour and go back to work alright so allow this book allows you to do it from the from your house. It’s also the person that maybe doesn’t have an acupuncturist within like a 90 minute drive just to go see one. So that’s pretty inconvenient. It’s also for the person who is afraid of needles. So there’s alternatives to that method that we show you in the book. And lastly, for the person who’s like, I really can’t afford as much care as I need. So this is the way invest in a book and now you’re able to do it at your house with pictures with words and even videos, things that I’ve learned from working in China Western references, Eastern references and practical experience. So check it out. I think you’re gonna like it. The first book today’s choices. Tomorrow’s health, again, is version 2.0. We got everything from what is chiropractic. What is pain, some exercises and stretches, lots of lessons learned from my time in China, like portion control, is it okay to feel hunger secret recipe Peck and I love talking about it. I haven’t got a whole section on finances like budgeting creating a budget how to scale back if you overspend, which is a huge problem for most people. So I’ll cover that it’s got some really good reviews. So hopefully you will take a look at that you can get it as a PDF for free or you can pay for it in different areas. Lastly, of course, we’ve got some chiropractic tongue in cheek t shirts about being a mixer, you do rehab you do adjustments you think adjustments, really a powerful thing but you also believe that you need to do muscle work and those types of things. We guess pretty cool shirts, mixers, and under the Resources tab as well. Well, as always, wherever you listen to the show, if you rank it five stars, that would be awesome. And of course, on the top right of the website, there’s all the social media icons, pick your flavor, follow me interact and I interact back You got any suggestions, email me Have a good week

we just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guest. A sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

About the Author
Dr. Justin Trosclair, D.C., an expert in Chiropractic Care, has been focusing on back and neck pain relief for over 12 years and has delivered treatment to more than 6000 patients. With advanced training in treating disc derangement conditions, you can count on him to keep up to date with the latest research in physical medicine for spinal pain. He has 5 years of hospital experience in China, is currently working in Germany, and had a private practice in Colorado for 6 years. Dr. Trosclair hosts a doctor to doctor interview podcast called ‘A Doctor’s Perspective‘ with over 220 episodes. During his free time he wrote 3 books. Today’s Choices Tomorrow’s Health (rebooting health in 4 categories), a Do-It- Yourself acupressure book for 40 common conditions called Needle-less Acupuncture, and a step by step guide to look like a local for Chinese dinner culture called Chinese Business Dinner Culture. If you have kids, you may be interested in his 6 series tri-lingual animal coloring book series (english, spanish and chinese).