E 107 Picking A Fee for CashPT and Staff Onboarding Dr Aaron LeBauer DPT

a doctors perspective e 107 cashPT fees dr aaron lebauer dpt
Dr. Erson “Dr E” Religioso III DPT talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor's Perspective Podcast

Becoming a cashPT clinic has hurdles. Dr. Aaron LeBauer DPT discusses creating a fair fee, why not take insurance, onboarding and  training staff, answering the phone, discounting services, handling objections and his favorite seminars.

His backstory involves learning the limitations of his massage therapy offerings and realizing very early on in clinical rotations that he did not want to see 43 patients per day. That was his big revelation that he can do physical therapy treatment on his terms, give the patient the best of his time and efforts, not play the insurance game and just accept high end cash  rates. After being in the trenches and learning and having coaches of his own, he packaged what he has learned and now offers CashPT © coaching for others looking to break free from insurance and practice exactly the way you want to.

When you get paid $43 from insurance regardless of how long you  treat the patient or what actual treatment you give to satisfy the code, on top of being used to making $85 for an hour 1 on1 as a massage therapist… Dr. LeBauer decision to go cashPT was practically a given.

How do you handle the caller that asks “do you take my insurance?”   What are the 2 reasons why a potential patient would ask about insurance to begin with?

Do you discuss fees on the phone if they ask? How do you build value on the phone so they come in for a consultation and exam –  knowing that they will pay cash?

Acknowledge the objections and redirect with questions to determine the deeper why they want physical therapy, the motivation to seek treatment now instead of earlier and what is actually wrong with you.

Why are patients referred by a medical doctor some of the hardest patients to pay cash for services?

What questions can another physician ask a physical therapist to see what kind of treatment they will provide your patients? Joint restriction, soft tissue restriction or motor control problem with treatment like manual therapy, exercises and patient empowerment.

PICKING A FEE

How do you pick a cash fee? Do you pull a number out of the sky, is there a formula, does the size of the town and median income play a part, can you over price yourself or is it just undervaluing your service?

If you charge a high fee per hour, what happens when the patient only needed 38 minutes that day? What ethical dilemmas can surface from that type of payment model?

Should you charge a case fee: for example, headaches cost XYZ? Can the same condition be a different fee from person to person or does it need to be uniformed?

How do you charge for Results?

What about a unique cashPT fee amount for each individual person for their unique condition? This fee could be $2500 and you might recommend it will take 7 visits to get better… so what happens if they aren’t better by 7 visits? Or maybe they got better in 4 visits.. What do you do then?

Can you believe that with only 9 patients a week you could earn $100,000?    What are some of his go to formulas to help doctors establish a fee schedule?

Does the doctor or a dedicated person “close the deal?” Is it better to have a patient pay per visit or commit to 8 visits and spread the payments out?

Can you discount too much for a prepay? What is the main underlining reason for the heavy discounts? He briefly touches on preframing patients as well.

            What type of clinic setting to choose?

Do you do mobile PT (drive to a patients house) or do you rent from another place (like a busy gym) or rent space from another healthcare provider that compliments yours or own your own space (with much higher overhead)? pluses and minuses of each scenario

If you are a PT should you work in a PT or Chiropractor office? Should you pick a place that is cash only like you or can the other doctor be in-network with insurances?

How do you expand to hiring a second treating doctor? Do you need to carbon copy yourself?
Should you hire a new graduate, 5 years experience etc?

Will new and old patients prefer to not see or will they expect to only see you and both scenarios Dr. LeBauer talks about?

Seminar to take:  Gray Cook – Selective Functional Movement Assessment (SFMA) : Seven full body movement tests used to determine fundamental patterns of movement and where the breakdown is especially if they have pain  

What are your onboarding procedures to train new staff including doctors?

Book:  Dotcom Secrets by Russell Brunson

Dr. Aaron has offered a free download of the 5 questions you need to ask patients to get them to pay cash for physical therapy. 

http://www.lebauerconsulting.com/5-questions-justin

His podcast is CashPT Lunch Hour and he practices in Greensboro NC

www.lebauerconsulting.com

www.Aaronlebauer.com

Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/107 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.

Full Transcript of the Interview (probably has some grammatical errors). Just Click to expand

Unknown 0:05
Episode 107, picking a fee for cash, PC and staff onboarding. I'm your host, Dr. Justin shorts. And today we talked to Aaron about our perspective, to 2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get a behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties. Let's hear a doctor's perspective.

Justin Trosclair 0:29
We're in the middle of a cash physical therapy mini series last week with Dr. E on talk about his products, and also a little bit about location and marketing. And, of course, the manual therapy this week, Dr. Aaron, the Bauer and we're going to talk more about picking a fee what goes into it, can you charge too much. And then next week, we Dr. Joe, he is going to discuss a bit more of the coaching aspect, the logistics, and also a little internal marketing. So the three different people, they all do different things with their cash practice. So I think you're really going to learn a lot hopefully inspire you may break free from the insurance model. Now Dr. Aaron, you can check the show notes, open it up in your app or on the website. There's a link for five questions you need to ask patients to get them to pay cash for physical therapy is love our consulting com slash five dash questions that Justin but like I said, just kind of a good as lightning click it. But it'll be a free download, tell a company all the stuff that we're talking about today. And what we're going to do is I kind of alluded to was discussed, how do you figure out what fee you should charge? What's too much? What's the underlying issue if you're not able to handle that training your staff who should quote, close the deal. We look at the pluses and minuses for mobile, physical therapy versus working out of the gym, should you work in a chiropractic office or physical therapy office if you're just going to rent space. And then of course, he has a second doctor that works with him. He also has like a residency program that he deals with. So we're gonna talk about onboarding staff, new doctors and answer those questions like do you want carbon copy of yourself, going to be worried that patients are going to not see that person because they're not you. And he also goes through a seminar that he really thinks changed the way he practices and recommends most people would take. So get your one note or your Evernote ready, you're definitely gonna want to pause this thing and take some notes. I'm excited. I learned a lot the first time and while editing. So I was excited about that all the show notes can be found at a doctor's perspective, slash 107. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China, in Greensboro, North Carolina. Today on the podcast, we're following up again, we have a cash practice. Big deal over here today. He's got his own podcast that I listened to it is really, really good. If you're into like learning a bond the scenes on physical therapy, want to do cash, practice yourself, whether you're a chiropractor, physical therapist, or whatever. And he also is a coach with his own consulting firm to help you obviously succeed in this because it's kind of the Wild West and you got to like figure it out. So please welcome to the guest, Dr. Aaron, love our

Unknown 3:12
Hey, Justin, thank you for having me. It's, it's just an honor to be on the show.

Justin Trosclair 3:17
Well, I appreciate that. I said, Dude, I listened to your show, and you got a lot of episodes. And you know, as a chiropractor, it's kind of funny to hear physical therapists, like my goodness, we're gonna we're gonna be all cash. And we're going to get out of the insurance and, and I forget, I'm like, that's all we can do. Like we don't have any other options, we have to be like, you know, a lone wolf out here. So it's really fun for me to like to hear the other side. And then after that, I'm like, okay, there's so many good things that y'all are doing that we can win for ourselves. And this is way beyond is chiropractic, a carpet or podcast here. But that's kind of where I'm coming from when I listened to it. And that makes me excited. So I think they're gonna be a lot of people that are going to get some good information from you. So I know at this point, you've been doing this for a long time, your hundred percent cash, and I'm not mistaken. You have several doctors kind of working underneath you now.

Unknown 4:01
Yeah.

Unknown 4:03
Right now I've got one and then I'm looking for a second. Right. Okay, so,

Justin Trosclair 4:07
so one of the things I'd like to chat about is just just the basic story real quick of like, why you ended up going to cash versus going to the insurances, and in the medical referral route, and all of that, and then starting to consulting and stuff, and then from there, we'll just kind of blossomed and see how this thing goes. Okay. Like,

Unknown 4:23
do you want the five minute version?

Unknown 4:27
I got a two hour.

Justin Trosclair 4:29
Go with the five and yeah, yeah,

Unknown 4:32
we'll start there. So I, let's see, I started out my Well, I've had multiple kind of multiple careers. But I started on my, my trajectory when I became a massage therapist about 20 years ago. And then I got to a point in such therapy where I wasn't really limited in what I was doing, I was limited in my ability to help patients recover and heal from injuries, because that's not a massage therapy. It's a kind of a wellness service, you're if you're not truly trained, and you know, Kellogg's is going to take and what do we need to do next, but I was seeing a lot of people who've been led down to the system, then the chiropractor's PDS, surgeons size, etc, and helping them but I kind of was coming up to this limit. And so I went back to PT school, and came to the physical therapist in my first clinical rotation, I had a day where I saw 43 patients one day well, and what that looks like in physical therapy is no manual therapy on one person, talking to someone across the room trying to guide them on their exercises. And then every 30 minutes to new people walk in the door. And 43 people meant that I was there till nine o'clock that night, we had a basketball team came in, walked in the door, like 645 was I was getting ready to leave and add another 10 people on we stayed another two hours. And it was just that was the day I was like sitting here with the pilot notes was like, I'm not doing this as a career. You know, this is crazy, because I came from a career of seeing people one on one for an hour and paying $5 for the visit doing massage. And I was like I'm not going to the hospital and earn 38 to $45 an hour. And then I can let me treat the way I want to treat. So that's why that's the short version of why I decided that I had to do something else different do it on my own and do without insurance because insurance dictates how we treat patients because especially at the time there was I think United Healthcare was like, hey, we'll pay you $42 better what you do, no matter how many tree, it's just 40 bucks. So in order to cover the costs, I have to see a whole bunch of people. And that's not what I wanted to treat patients. And I know that some people get better in that way. But the patients that I was used to seeing, they're willing to spend time with, that's not how I wanted to go. And I didn't want that conflict of interest between deciding what my patient needs and what insurance is going to

Justin Trosclair 6:54
pay me to do. I think had a guest on the other day, she was saying, there's like $1,000, almost a visit and hospital setting. Of course, they never get paid that but if you didn't pay it, all of a sudden they get out of sticky with they kind of don't you like there's nobody on this earth that would pay 1000 Well, maybe they would $1,000 per hour for physical therapy, that that's a bit much,

Unknown 7:14
right, especially the way they end up doing, you know, where you get like 15 minutes a day, these were they were multiple instances in multiple hospitals were just like the people are being charged anywhere from 350 to $600 for a 15 minute unit. And that's how you end up with you know, thousand dollars and they have a 20 to 2500 or $7,000 deductible, you got to pay that first, you know, a couple thousand bucks. And we're charging, we're not charging, we're charging less than that. And my fees are based on that. But it's it makes financial sense to pay this, that's the wrong conversation to have with the patient, you know, to get them to come into our business,

Justin Trosclair 7:54
that kind of leads me to two main topics everyone's gonna have all right, you're not an insurance, you're in a realm of healthcare that usually that's definitely the first question. Medical Doctors might only refer to somebody that is in their network. So if your direct marketing, which is I assume this what you're doing direct marketing public, and we can talk about that later to, you got always asked that quite answer that question. Do you take my insurance? And then and I charge maybe $200 an hour for the service? How do you handle that? I'm assuming that's something you have to handle with him? What's a good way to do that?

Unknown 8:26
Yeah, the best way to do this for years, there's two things are having with someone else to take my insurance. Number one, they're used to that being the primary topic of the conversation when they call medical provider. For instance, you know, when I go if I do see my primary care physician, you know, and I call it in or show up at the desk, the first two questions they asked me are, what your date of birth? And what's your insurance? They don't ask me what my name is, you will ask me what's going on? It's just insurances. That is the primary focus. So people call me. Okay, well, this is the question I have to ask, you know, when I say how can I help you? You know, they're like, oh, marching as well make sure. So basically, it will do you take my insurance? So that's one problem. That's not something I can help. Maybe we can change. But is there that's the problem. Why one reasons, I think it's the first thing asked, the other thing to do is when someone asks, Where do you take my insurance? So first thing we'll do is say, Well, you know, my desk who's calling or have you know, my name is Dr. of our, you know, Amber. Okay, my name is Amber, you ask me speaking, okay. And then we sort of redirect, what do you call him about what's going on? How long is this their problem? We start asking questions to figure out what is going on? Because at the end of the day, whether we take your insurance and not, it doesn't matter if I can help you. So why do I need to? You know, like, really, it's like, does it matter if I take care insurance if you you know, fractured your arm? Know, because you shouldn't be coming here right now, you should be you know, you've just you should be going to the ER or care and, you know, get an extra for a fracture, bleeding. But the other part of that is, someone asked, we're going to kind of acknowledge it. And redirect is like any objection, it's acknowledged the objection and read your message like these terms, to break question. Before we get to that, is it okay, if I asked you a few other questions to find out what's going on and see if we can help you. And we'll just kind of redirect NASA's other questions. And by the time we build enough value, whether we take your insurance or not, usually isn't an issue for people. You train your staff or whoever answers the phone to pretty much have a consultation and over the phone, so that way, they are know, like I sprained my ankle. All right, what's that problem? What hurts the walk well known training for a five K, and it's in two weeks and not bring my ankle. Oh, okay. But now we got the root of the problem and why you're calling? Yeah. It's like, what do you call it out versus six week? for six weeks ago? Well, I got it. I got five k run this year. And I'm nervous this they haven't gone away. Yeah, we can take care of the notes. Ask the motivation. Yeah. The The worst thing that we have to worse than we are, but the thing that we hear the most that we can't, it's not that we can't solve it. But it's it's usually goes like my doctor told me I need the physical therapy. This is like really, like fearsome. I said, Listen, I need that physical therapy. And I have a prescription for three days a week, you know, you know, it knew I need, you know, you take my insurance was, isn't that the insurance isn't the problem is the set of the call the fact that this person's calling us because the my wife use this term that was great. the locus of control is in the referring physicians, hand or private providers, and it's not in the patient. So the patient's like, well, you mean, you have to evaluate it again, my doctor and I'll use air quotes. My doctor told me I need Okay, great. Well, we're not the way that we operate, like, we're going to evaluate you and that this may not be the right place. Those are the hardest people to convert, because they're not here for themselves. They're here for someone else told them they need the physical therapy.

Justin Trosclair 12:09
If they've been before, they're just like, well, they put some ice packs on me, somebody stretch me, they show me some ball exercise, maybe it's got like, yeah, that's physical therapy, like, well, it's a type of physical therapy, but it's my, my type. Right?

Unknown 12:24
Right, you got it. And so having conversations with those, those P is that those people, those people, people who call with this is the reason. It's like, Well, why do you need to know all this information from me? Because, you know, so and so already, is what I need, you know, and I, you know, they find the value of what we do be, you know, they just are looking for the cheapest way to get the commodity or the Aaron I mean, quote, Dr. Aaron, I think the my main doctor knows I have a rotator cuff issue, he just needs you to do something for

Justin Trosclair 12:58
it. Right? Yeah. So sad. Yeah.

Unknown 13:01
Yeah. And it's, it's a technical they're just calling us for the technical skill rather than for our decision making process. Right.

Justin Trosclair 13:07
And I don't know quite the questions yet to ask if you're you know, it's for a chiropractor, you know, we we have our own wheelhouse, you'll have your house, someone like yourself, are you more manually therapy trained? Maybe you do some spiral nips as well, you're looking for, like other doctors to refer to? What are some of the questions that we could ask, obviously, we can all go to you to find a competent physical therapist who's going to help with real sports injuries are real just injuries in general, that they're gonna get the best care you think?

Unknown 13:33
Great. So are you saying like, how could a chiropractor ask a physical therapist, right questions to figure out? Is this the right kind of person to help my patients? Exactly. Okay. So like, so what we do here in our clinic, we do a lot of soft tissue work, we do some we do some spinal manipulation to do some peripheral joint manipulation, we do corrective exercise is that the main thing is, is we look at our patient in the way that I practice and I trained my residents and the other physical therapists can work for me as we're looking through the whole body to see is it a joint restriction? Is it a soft tissue restriction? Or is it the motor control? And so I'm looking at not just Okay, you've got shoulder pain, okay, let's just treat your shoulder. It's like I need I know, I need to look at your thoracic spine, your C spine. And I also want to see how you slot in your ankles move and and your hips move? Because it depends on the activity or have been you guys shoulder pain. But if you're you have it because you're doing an overhead squat? Or do you have it because you're lifting your kids up off the ground, and you can't squat all the way down. And that's how you're lifting, lifting them up and compensating guy need know all those things. So I would look for someone when I look for Okay, what's another physical therapist I want to look for, I'm looking for someone who's trained in a way that they're looking at the whole body, that they're using a combination of manual therapies, exercise and was want to call it patient empowerment, where I'm not just what your own PT didn't happen only when I'm watching TV happens when I see you and I teach, what did you do at home and you go home and do it. And it's more than just exercises that someone could do the gym is, but they're not exercises that are so complicated that patients can't reproduce them themselves. Does that make sense? Absolutely. You know, so as people come in and be like, well, I want to, I want to PT somewhere else. And they just had me do an exercise I can do with the gym, like riding a bike doing don't else's. And we're doing things like I tried to complicated exercises, I was taught at school, and people can't remember them now. So I've kind of come to a point where it's like, Okay, I need one or two things for people to do that is that they don't have to consciously try to activate a certain muscle, but it's been Give me the result I want, it's going to get them moving in a way that gets them coffee and coffee nearby.

Justin Trosclair 15:57
So that was like global motions.

Unknown 15:59
Yeah. Or it might even just be like a half kneeling year and a half kneeling, and you're doing a lift from the ground with a band rock nice. And now I don't think about stabilizing the band's wasn't me now forcing me to you gave my body to stabilize without thinking about it. Very good. But can I add can add an input to your body where it gets your body doing the movement I want without you having to think too hard about it. It's really, that's what it boils down to for me, when I'm looking for other parties like okay, how much time are you going to spend with my patient? What are you going to do with them? Or you can look at their whole body? Are we going to get some hands on care and some kind of corrective exercise and even someone who's got I don't know how I always find this, but it's I want to say like a modern outlook on pain.

Unknown 16:46
Whereas the pain isn't always the problem of you know, the tissue injury, but there's a global reason why someone's in pain, or multiple factors, not just blaming it on one thing that we can't fix ourselves. And then you know, because that's what I see a lot of patients that are having trouble with, they've been told they have a hernia dislike Yeah, I was told me it just 20 years ago, and I'm still walking around feeling like I've got her any disc problem and you know, and can help me and it's just like, okay, like, that doesn't have to be your problem for 22 years, they become the diagnosis. And it's because someone asked use words way, well, meaning that, you know, just kind of like sticks with.

Justin Trosclair 17:25
Yeah, I hate when they do that. You see him and you're like, well, you're probably gonna get well at that point. 20 years, it's sometimes it's hard to get them better, but less than you like, better if you want to get better at your mindset wants to change a little bit that would help. Do you find that? You know, especially like chiropractic, you know, if you're just the neck and you're like, Yeah, but you know, there's something going on, like in your hip, and it's kind of causing you to always do this and that. And then that's why your neck hurts. Oh, man, you really got to start documenting quite good. Because you know, the insurance like, well, they came in with this problem. Now you're just in the low back or a knee or something like that. Come on, man. doesn't even make sense. Joe had that same type of issue with? I don't.

Unknown 18:05
Yeah, yeah.

Unknown 18:07
So then,

Unknown 18:08
isn't it? Sure I don't I mean, yes. There. See, here's the thing. Some people have the issue, but they type about documentation. It's like, they can't it's, well, it's like it's like, yes, it's not even I wouldn't call it justified. But yes, people don't say, look, I did this evaluation, I did this exam, and I can see that this is moving well, and then the way that they document doesn't allow them to get reimbursed for it, or they think it's a problem. And it's more of a mindset issue. I mean, I could justify a lot of things. And I don't have that problem, because patients pay us directly and whether they get reimbursed or not is not up to me. And that's why I do it this way. Because I don't want pressure to have to document a certain way or do certain things just to get paid.

Justin Trosclair 18:58
Do you still send them a super bill? That way they wanted to submit out of network, they could do that? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And at that point, they're less stringent on on your notes, when the patient is trying to get reimbursed.

Unknown 19:11
Army only reason we get asked for notes in the last few years is if someone needs it for a personal injury or motor vehicle, okay, you know, thing,

Justin Trosclair 19:19
Oh, you don't get assignment for that either.

Unknown 19:21
Okay, at all. And we'll give the notes directly that patients the insurance companies haven't had an insurance company asked us for notes and three or four years. Okay, when I first got started, they did and I generally think it's because they just want to prove that we actually saw the patient and we're not just a pop up scam.

Justin Trosclair 19:36
That's fair on there. They're still paying somebody. When you're looking at rates. I don't know any cash practice that's doing $55 an hour, you know, $60 an hour. Is there a formula or a way to tell you like, well, I'm in Denver? Well, you're in Greensboro. I'm in a small town, 30 minutes from Greensboro. So you know, maybe 10,000 people, is there some way to figure out the rate that would think pay, they think you know, people need people, but sometimes like you can overprice it to where you can't get people in sometimes,

Unknown 20:05
right? You can Oh, well, I would say you're not over I would say yes, there is a formula. You can use it for general guidelines, and you can't overprice it, you can undervalue it, who, okay, so if someone if someone thinks is too expensive, they don't understand the value of what you can do. And we've done a bad job of explaining it. And so here's mean, you have to look at, hey, what's the maximum number of patients I could physically treat every week without feeling burnt out? So for me, it's about 25 people for 45 minutes. Like, I don't want to see, you know, what I'm seeing 2620 people a week, with the type of work that I'm doing and the amount of energy it takes, physically and emotionally, etc. 2016 was just like one too many. So I got to look at Okay, how much am I charging? And what am i expenses? And can I have a comfortable life doing that?

Unknown 21:00
Hey, but that's not enough. That's like the bottom. That's the bottom number, like absolute minimum, like, you can't go out and start that might be what you start. When you start there. I would look,

Justin Trosclair 21:13
you gotta gain that confidence, like people will pay you you are worth it. Yes,

Unknown 21:16
you are. And you can get you can generate $100,000 on nine patients a week.

Unknown 21:23
So you only see nine treatments a week to earn it earn six figures, or gender or gross six years. But here's the thing. This is why I say it's about the value. It's okay, so I was just working with my code. One of my coaching clients yesterday, we had a, we have all day VIP day work on our business. And the thing she starts out with his, okay, he's the patient I treated yet, you know, like, it's like, She's like, this is why I'm doing it. I just saw a patient yesterday as a little like 12 year old girl who was told by the surgeon that they're gonna have to break both or hips in order to fix for hip. And I'm like, if someone's been told if a 12 girls being told, we're going to have to break your hip. So one is like the languages Come on. Yeah, don't use that language, little kids. You know, say you say, look, we're going to use some medical term that sounds less scary, or insulin levels are some more scary really quick, we're going to have to go in and we'll do a religion or something, or do something, right. So she's scared. And then this woman who I'm working with the PT looked at her, you know, within 30 minutes, she got her you're dancing the way that she needed to dance without pain, because it was a stability problem that she found in this book, kids and tears. And so what she do so here's the thing is my point is that what was this surgery going to cost? This 12 year old girl and family? Easily? $5,000 per probably more like 10 to 15 plus eight to 12 months of rehab.

Justin Trosclair 22:49
Yeah,

Unknown 22:50
right. Yep. So all right. So we're saving people's lives we're sitting, we're, we're helping them get back to doing the things that emotional according to them, like dancing and picking up their kids and going out to the movies and driving to work, or, you know, running a five K, we're saving them from months and months and years of agony and thousands of dollars in bills. So what if I charge you $3,000 for that one visit, I just saved you 1010 months like this, it's absolutely worth it. So what we charge for therapy, if you know, it's almost like we gotta stop looking at like, Okay, I'm going to charge this per hour and like, let me charge you for the result. Like, what's the result that you want? And, okay, that program is going to be just $2,000. I'll see you once a week for eight weeks, of course, eight weeks, and I'm going to give you these things, and I'm going to help you get back to dancing or running or doing the thing that you told me out with that while avoiding feeling like you need to get surgery or take more medications.

Unknown 23:54
Yes, great. That's exactly what I want

Justin Trosclair 23:56
seen. I've thought about that, you know, we see the same stuff over and over again. And you know, I can look like an X ray, or you know, what's your symptoms? Okay, you got headaches? And I've thought about that also, like, Can I just say, Hey, you got a headache? I charge 750 for that. What do you mean, it's $750? I can't guarantee you that you're going to get better? Because that's not right. But I've got a real success rate. So less than 750. How many visits that can take? I'm not sure, you know, maybe five, maybe 12. Just depends on how you respond. But we'll start out twice a week for two, two weeks, maybe three weeks and just kind of see where you're at? And I was like, I want to, can you do that? Or do you have to just charge like a monthly rate or like a PR, like, pardon me sound like, if I'm going to charge us per hour, but I'm done with you in 30 minutes. Man, I gotta figure out how to do for the next 30 minutes. Otherwise, I guess I just read, I can just refund you half the money or something? I'm not sure. What do you think?

Unknown 24:47
Right. And so where it gets where that gets, like, I think that's great. I know, some people do that where they had it's complicated is giving people a super bill or filing an insurance claim. Because those are based on time.

Unknown 25:01
So what the way we get around that is I'm thinking in my head, okay, it's going to take me about eight visits to fix or help them fix the fix the problem. And, you know, look if they're better than six, so I can do some things for two more space about a month and give them more on a performance track or, you know, you know, and I even tell people like, Look, you're paying me go away before we're finished. And that's, that's exactly where I want you. So I'm looking at it, when I quote someone a price, I'm thinking, Okay, I've got how much I want per hour per visit. Here's what that cost is going to be for about the number of visits, I'm going to see you. And so Let's all say hey, look, this is what this is, what I recommend is going to be just you know, 750, 1495, 1998, 2497,

Unknown 25:46
and we're going to do all these things. Has that sounds great. Okay, we're going to be started once a week for eight weeks, or once a week for six weeks, then we'll probably do every week for the next three, the next four visits. And I'll get Amber, you know, my assistant, the I'll schedule and take care of payments. Let me show you some of the exercises that we're going to do. And I'm going to recommend that you do between now and our next visit. And so I still tied it to numbers of visits and some units. But as insurance reimbursement, I mean, deductibles are getting less CO pays are getting more,

Unknown 26:20
almost doesn't really matter. We're going to get the point where it doesn't matter you like yeah, you know, I'll treat you the problem you get into is where it's like creating a boundary for how long am I going to treat you for that 750 or $1,000? before? Where I say, look, this is going to you know, I need to sell you, you know, another package or doesn't work. So that's where it just figuring that piece out? Is is where is the gray area? Yeah, you know what I mean?

Justin Trosclair 26:47
Yeah, that is tough. Because you said 750. And now I got to come and give you more money? Or do I just come in for a few extra times, and I don't get paid for it.

Unknown 26:57
But, you know, there is a there's an incentive to get the so well, one of the same. There's an incentive and there's a 50. Okay, I'm going to discharge early because that's, you know, it's, there's a lot of there's some ethical issues around all of these. And I think it's like, Okay, I know that some people, some practitioners say, Look, I know plantar fasciitis, it takes them five visits. But great, I'm glad you know that, like, I have a hard time with that. Because in my position or my practice my experience people back in the issue is two or three like, Oh, I didn't tell you about my chronic migraines. Until you go, you know, the hip issue. I also have keeping me from sitting down like, Okay, great. We've covered some work going to take a little bit longer sometimes. Yeah. So, you know, but yes, I do think that at the end of the day, if we can charge someone you know, $1,000 or $200,000, to get rid of their back pain, and they avoid getting surgery and the possibility of dying in surgery or getting a hospital one infection or you know, even just having to go change. I think that's a big one. I think

Justin Trosclair 28:01
the audience is going to have some things to ponder with some of these numbers now because like I said, there is this like the ethical, the gray area a little bit. Let's see, Do you get any backlash from colleagues for bigger than others chiropractors out there that there? I think this is the problem. They were charging, whether you came in for a low back pain, sciatica, neck pain, didn't matter what it was, it was always Oh, you need 36 visits, and it's going to be $5,000 or whatever. And everybody had the same thing. But for yourself, you know, you evaluate somebody, can someone have a different like, Oh, they have a an ACL repaired and you need to take care of it? Well, not every ACL pair is going to be the same. So if Bob got this for 1500 dollars, but then Sally came next week and their buddies and you didn't know that and she charged or 2500? Do they ever get like upset like a man with a bunch that an ACL takes this much and I'm getting charged more or whatever? You ever had that happen?

Unknown 28:59
with patient? We meaning it's because what we're doing is we're creating unique plans for people, someone who said this, like, you know, I mean, that's what I mean, if we're looking at it, like, like, Okay, I got an ACL, I got a shoulder thing, I've got a hip problem, if they got got a person in front of me, and this is what I think it's going to be and, you know, and so I'm not basing it on Okay, this is the protocol for this. This is what this is going to cost. And so I don't really have that from patients about what we're charging. I've had people come back. Oh, you're charging more now. Okay. Yeah, we are, you know, when we've raised our reach over the years, because there was a time when I wasn't charging enough to allow me to employ people. Yeah, I wasn't charging enough, you know, because I didn't have a coach to help me set my rates when I started. Right, you know, in the right way, because there weren't a lot of people talking about cash basis. There be 10 years ago.

Justin Trosclair 29:58
Okay. Yeah, I just was coming curious. Because I know, you know, patients talk and if your headache was this much in my head, it was that much wise mine, Lester wise, years more, and I didn't know if that was going to be like an issue. But okay.

Unknown 30:11
No,

Justin Trosclair 30:12
that's good. That's really good to hear. Like you said, You wanted to be custom. And that's one way to customize. Right? All right. I've listened to several different podcasts with different guests that are doing it and everybody can seems to be successful, regardless of what they pick. But what does Dr. Aaron think mobile driving to people's houses, written your own space working out of a gym? You have a magic bullet? You got any pluses or minuses on these scenarios? What What do you kind of recommend?

Unknown 30:37
Um, I think they are all great. They're all great options, it kind of depends on your target market. You know, do you want to work with busy professionals or busy, you know, busy moms, and it's a convenience to them for you to go there, go to their home, or go to their office, mobiles, great mobiles, also great way to get started, because it's lower over, you don't need to find your rent a space, you don't need to buy a bunch of equipment and, and thanks to you know, like chairs and all that stuff. It's great. I think working in a gym, if your target audiences or gym members and a gym has an open space, I think it's an amazing place to have to be the one of the two kind of caveats to that are like with travel is when you're going into other people's homes. So some people uncomfortable as therapists putting other people's homes, and you have to drive a lot. And so you're, it's keeps us busy time isn't as efficient. Yeah, right. So you can't see as many patients as some of those say, Oh, I'm traveling, you're only charging less What? Well, you know, you're really you're trying to someone's home, and you should charge a premium because it's a service to them. And it takes you two hours to see one patient for an hour. And so you're losing income with a gym, a lot of people get into it. Anything other they get a lot of patients from the gym, man. And my thing is, is that you're going to get in there and yeah, you might get a lot of patients from the gentleman he especially across it, but I know people where they come into the gym, and the trainers, the owners, they don't really believe in the therapy and people pointed at all, no one came to see me. those are those are the kind of the things that like that what the expectations of getting into it and the brick and mortar clinic like we have you got an overhead and Pete and the problem is people think oh, I have to be an expensive part of town a nice part of town, you don't have to you just have to have a nice day space for people to come. You know if I think they're all great models, and even there's, you know, online models, there's telehealth models, combination models that are all great.

Justin Trosclair 32:50
You found that, especially if you're starting out, you could just written a room from another physical therapist or from some other type of health facility to keep the overhead down. Because you may only need that one link to start with for like a while.

Unknown 33:02
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think that Pete like if there's a physical therapist, you'll have the most success renting a spare room from a chiropractor, a massage therapists acupuncturist or in a gym versus another PT clinic, because then you you know, but I know people who've done it through a PT clinic and you know, vice versa. You know, I don't know how that would be, you know, chiropractor renting a space with another contractor who's charging cash when one's insurance like that's where it gets, why am I paying this? Or that? It's like, it's really you're just renting space, you're not expecting patients to come from the same person? Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, and even with

Unknown 33:44
people who the PT is cash base to chiropractors not, and patients like, Well, why would I go over there if it's, it's just a little barriers, but I know, PTs and carburetors you were both out of you know, cash or both insurance and they have a hard time getting patients to go back for. So you know, it just,

Justin Trosclair 34:03
it's two different ways to if it's not if it's sort of like two different entities. And even if it's not, I'm not 100%. But chiropractic has his own codes versus the PT. So if, if someone's like, I hate chiropractic, but they like the idea of being adjusted maybe by a PT for some reason, then like you can find that person. And it's all probably within the one copay, or, you know what I mean, it's all when one house, and the same thing of like, well, I like the chiropractic thing, and he started doing physical therapy, or he does a lot of the same type of stuff. And now I can just do it all under one roof. And I don't have to do to co pays are drive around town or two different people. But I think you just have to know your limits.

Unknown 34:39
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if like, there's a chiropractor. I know a lot of practices have to chiropractic MPG, whether you know, like, husband's a PTA vice of Cairo, or they're just two people, two different professions in the same business, if they're in network of it's just one for beta. see anyone between the two professions? I know we have different valuation codes, the treatment codes are similar. So I think, you know, and I know, I know that that stuff for doing that, like oh, well, there's two co pays $50, I'm an extra 50 bucks to can possibly do that. Like, why would I do that yet, same time I got people coming up to 50, you know, more than twice as much for one person, it's, it's the same COP is the same conversation, you know, getting people to justify their copay versus the in network, or the or the cash practice, price. And I can tell you, for 2019, my health insurance specialist co pays going from $75 a month doubling. So that's where PT, chiropractors cardiologists, anything other their primary care, it's going to 150. So my next year to go see my cell phones going to be 150 bucks,

Justin Trosclair 35:49
and you're going to add the pay somebody back because they don't reimburse that much.

Unknown 35:52
That's what's crazy, right? So, you know, it's like, it's, it's

Unknown 36:01
Yes, I think we're headed to a point where it doesn't really matter. And I think that day, so pretty soon,

Justin Trosclair 36:08
let's switch gears a little bit. I probably could, you know, obviously, you're you have clients that could talk to you for hours on an entire weekend about all the nitty gritty. So but you have this consulting firm, you do this, you know, for living as well. What do you like said you hired a second Doc, apparently, that's a pretty big deal from what I'm what I'm hearing, because they got the lag time you got to train them, they're not making as much money? Are they going to be as good as I am? Do you hire a new doc out of school or someone who has like experience? You have any any tips on that for us?

Unknown 36:40
Yes. So it depends on how you want your practice to run, I want patients to come in and get a similar experience. Whether they see me or they see Dr. Shelton or Dr. Milton, who was my was my first

Unknown 36:55
first president, I do that I have a residency program as well, where I do a clinical and business mentorship, nice. And he was here for a year. And I want people to get the same experience. So I want us all have similar training, I want to go to train them. And so getting someone at a school or within the first few years, I think is, is what I prefer, rather than someone who's been out 10, 710, 12

Unknown 37:19
or more years, and they know this is how I practice. I feel like that would be harder to find someone to map just my style. Because I want people to come in. And you know, it's not just about me, it's not just about seeing doctor of our it's not just about, you know, x, it's like, I'm going to go to all of our physical therapy, and this is experiencing and get. So that's kind of what I'm looking for. I can tell you, it's hard to find people who, you know, you know, people like oh, well, I'm not ready for a cash practice yet. I'm like, you don't have to be I mean, you know,

Unknown 37:52
I think that's the scary thing is the first time you do is like are people going to not want to see so and so see the other person that I've had plenty of patients, go see one of these other two guys and prefer to stay with them. How do you rate because I know how to hear you. But that's what I want. I want to have my time I've interviewed patients for 20 years. And I want it'll be 20 years in. His name is 20 2019

Unknown 38:20
years this month. So I graduated from massage school night. And I I've been doing that I'm like I'm rated you multiply myself and I have to have people come in and treat my patients. And that's the scary part is making sure that people don't notice too much of a difference. But these guys are really good. And they're right out of school and their commanding high prices,

Justin Trosclair 38:41
you can force them to take certain seminars to Yeah, well, first of

Unknown 38:45
all, like, hey, what they both said to me, what do you recommend that I that I do and go learn? And I said these are the things that have helped me the most user seminar to like, and they both went and did to content courses on their own dime based on my recommendation, but who were I hired? As commitment.

Justin Trosclair 39:00
Yeah, yeah. And they're go getters.

Unknown 39:01
Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 39:01
they're like, all right, what do it What's one course that you recommend?

Unknown 39:05
I think the two things that I recommend are something soft tissue based. And I like using hands, my hands. And I like and I am from when I became a massage therapist, not only to have on a slash training, I did some training with john Barnes doing mouthwash release. And I thought that was great. And I love the techniques. But if there's one, but the one course that I recommend it, I think you can get, you can get soft tissue techniques, a lot of different ways. But the one course that I think that I recommend, for most practitioners would be the selective functional movement assessment, it's great cook, and Greg rose and a couple other guys, it's great, because that is the thing that put together all the special tests that I learned in PT school, and all the things that I was doing and put it into like a very

Unknown 39:57
logical order that I could repeat, right? They figured No, okay, this is running and do some soft tissue This is running is running some corrective exercise is what needs to patient education. And it's like it's pulling those things together, and I'll give you the shirt off. Yes, it gave me a system that wasn't rigid, or and it's in it. And it's not a protocol, it just made me just put together the way of looking at the body that I was like, Oh, yes, this is why some of those people aren't getting better. And this is why I need to continue doing you know, these things with this person, these people and so and it, it drastically improved my effectiveness. But if but I already had this, I already had the soft tissue skills and you know, I manipulated skills are, you know, chiropractic level, with that much at one of

Unknown 40:49
my good friends here, Christina, and he rented space for me for a year and a half. And he was amazing. Because he you know, like he he did that all the time. But at the same time, it's just a difference. But I do we do manipulation. And I do it for you know, for maybe 3040 seconds, but I do a whole bunch of others soft tissue and other things around it. It's not one thing that I'm doing, I'm putting together like a combination of things. And it's a it's something that's really vital. And with all that being said, being able to see how all these things fit together, that one course kind of really helped me put a lot of those things together. So you know, I have a soft tissue stuff. And I went to this course was like well, there we go. I you know, and I would competent intimidation, pretty much an expert and soft tissue, and just put together a lot of stuff and allow me to go figure Okay, now how do I become an expert at corrective exercise, and it showed me the things that I was missing from

Justin Trosclair 41:46
sometimes, some brains are just set up for that I've noticed there's a chiropractic people that are having their own systems like that. And when you watch it, you're like, Ah, you just sort of, you know, if you go through A through E, just, you just might always skip see, because you just didn't know to look forward, I weren't sure how to incorporate it. And then once you figured it out, oh, no, I can do that more. And these other people are getting better and better results you make thank goodness that took a course in in that.

Unknown 42:14
Right. Yeah. And I was asked the question, Greg rose, who's a he's a chiropractor and you know, works at MPI. And he was like, what's up with your ankle?

Unknown 42:24
ankle? You know, we were just going through a demonstration that he was like, oh, come here. And it was it was eye opening because he was able to see this it. My ankle was never a problem. I had an issue with my knee. And when I first went to CrossFit class, the very first time coach put gave me too much way to do you know, some kind of Olympic lifts. And I was like, on my knees not feeling good. I was like my formula. Good. And this cross the coach, of course, like, Yeah, that's great. Well, I really I stopped doing I didn't do CrossFit anymore after that, because my knee hurt for like a month. It wasn't, it was just like, irritated. And I was like there's never a problem. So I didn't go back and do it in like two and a half years later, I met this course and Greg's like what's up with your ankle? And I'm like, What do you mean? And he's like, Here, let me You did a manipulation. He's like, do this, like, oh, you're, you're lacking door selection there was like, Oh, that's what was up with my name doing like this.

Unknown 43:14
clean and jerk or whatever it was thing. And I was like, Oh, that was it. It's just a whole body system. And it takes other people. Sometimes you go, there you go. There's your problem is somewhere else. Yeah. You're a big bicycle guy. Right? Yeah, I used to race by schools. Nationally, United States has been a summer over in Belgium. Racing and Belgium, France and the Netherlands. done a long time.

Justin Trosclair 43:38
That's cool. That's cool. Have you created your own like onboarding system when you start hiring these doctors like through videos or manuals and things so that you don't really have to be there next time you hire someone else?

Unknown 43:52
Yeah, we're, we're See, I have it, I actually haven't turned it in my plan is to turn it into like a little corners

Justin Trosclair 43:58
will. You know, of course, 1995.

Unknown 44:03
I actually haven't. I've got that bill. I know I've got that built was like it's not even Of course, this is the course for the next time. Next guy or gal it to take when they get hired. It's like, hey, go register for you know, here, go here and do the training. And then when you come in person,

Justin Trosclair 44:17
you're you're saving the doctor lots of time, if they can do it, and not have to actually do it themselves and recreate the wheel. So I'm giving you a hard time but right. That's why people

Unknown 44:27
I know and I've got it on a spreadsheet right now. It's just like, I just need to go plug it in. But yes, that's all putting a systemized whole thing. I think my coach calls it that, you know, they create the alien abduction manual. I'm like, Yes, because it is, you know, it's not like a half I fire you or if I replace you, it's like, hey, if the aliens come and pluck you out of the sky, new book you off the earth, like I need to know how to do your job. Like we need to have that systemized. And those systems are really what allows businesses to run if

Justin Trosclair 44:58
Hey, real quick, I heard one of your podcast episodes. I don't remember her name, but she was like your front desk type person and probably many other roles, but who quote closes the deal? Or do you have to take on that responsibility of like, it's going to cost 20 $500? Or do you pass that on to somebody else.

Unknown 45:15
So here's how it work. We in a tree Maroon movie pitch, the deal will get confirmation, you know, like a verbal confirmation, yes, or if there's an objection will meet the objection. And then, but it's ambers job when people get up front to close it, to take the payment to offer the different payment options that we have and get them to commit that day. So my big goal is to rather to commit to the planet beer, then pay one at a time. So we've got a couple different options will give people a 5% discount for paying ahead. Or we could get them on the say, even if we got them on a payment plan, like a no interest payment plan, that at least they're committed to their eight visits versus You know, one in time, but she's the one that offers those different, the stern options to people and get them to talk to their credit card. gets that. So she's kind of the closer, but we pitch it. But it's not like going to buy a car, right? You know, like we're, you know, we go back and forth. And I'll let me talk to my manager, make sure that price is right here. And it's just like, here's, here's the options. Here's the price, here's what we're going to do for you for all that. And this is where you're going to avoid. And we go from April take care of the payment and get you on the schedule on amber get some on the schedule, given the payment options and costs. Are you

Justin Trosclair 46:29
finding that's what I guess that might be what you teach. But are you finding that common thing with the cash practices are a lot of people kind of do pay as you go?

Unknown 46:36
I think most people either do pay as you go, or the discount to mile, you know, and it, you know, discount too heavily because they're paying now 40% off not confident. Yeah. Or, hey, I had someone the other day and it was like, Okay, I charge I'm charging, they're charging 160 or 175 for a visit. But you know, for eval one, one 3125 135

Unknown 47:02
for follow ups. But all the packages are, you know, basically done and it's like $110 per visit, once you sell them can do the package. I'm like, why is the package making your rates so much lower? It's just getting lower and lower. People will discount they know, what kind of discount Can I can I give to get people in the door? Well, it's like the discounts not going to get the right people in the door. The discount me shouldn't be about discounting the therapy should be getting Yeah, minute, like, Hey, you do permit to 10 visits, I'll give you a discount. Because I know you're I know, now you've created you put your money where your mouth is, and you're ready to go. And you're going to be a great, great patient. And that's really what that's really what it's for. But people are either discounting too much where they're they're doing it because they're not they're discussing too low, because they're not confident that people pay.

Justin Trosclair 47:50
Okay, very similar, do you? And I think I might have asked this already. And I'll just see what you say, Do you get a lot of pushback, either on these techniques that you're teaching? Like, oh, you're saying in the clients, or I can't believe you're making people do that. That's like unethical, because depending on how you do it, it can be. But what do you find?

Unknown 48:08
You're not really getting at? Well, I don't know, people are saying about the sales strategies. And I know that people when I teach it, they don't believe they can do it. Because they don't value themselves. And they you know, they wouldn't pay $200 for PT themselves. So how are they in? There's no way they're going to sell it. But push that I get is just in the general cash based thing how I've had plenty was an all cash base PT is not ethical. Or it's not the way not everyone can afford it. And you know, I like it. It's okay to have that opinion. But it actually looked at things the way that I do and we we talked about in the beginning. It's like, Can I you know, everyone can afford it. Yeah, who cannot afford to come in and get quality care like, you can get quality care in network, you can get one on one practice in network and people in network are facing going to collect 25 to $50 copay is because the patients don't value it, you know, we have to be able to sell the value of what we provide, and do it in a way that ethical and the way that it's ethical to sell is it if you absolutely believe that this the right thing for that person, which is what I do. I mean, I know that I'm saving either potentially save people from life altering surgery. So it's my ethical obligation to sell them, you know, into coming to see me in my practice, because I know that that's what I do.

Justin Trosclair 49:29
And some people just hate the word sales, but it's just whatever you want to say. It's just, it has to be done.

Unknown 49:34
Yeah, you can't be a you can't. Well, sales is one of those things where people do all the time, they don't realize it, you know, they sell people into going on a date with them, they sell people into going into the restaurant that they want, they sell people into not going into not going to a certain movie or eating a certain food or, you know, doing any activities were selling all day long. If we are afraid to sell our own services, we're not going to not going to be

Justin Trosclair 50:00
the world the way that we even if you're taking insurance, it's still I'm still going to need to come 10 visits, well, if you don't do your job, they're going to quit if the pain stops at five or that like, hey, it's been five visits, I don't feel like I'm better. I'm not coming in under five times, like I'm just done. It's still sales,

Unknown 50:15
sales and a big part of that. And so in those kinds of problems are pre frame people. Like this is what you're going to need this, what you're going to expect is where you're going to experience and you know, some people forget to do that, or they don't know that they need to do that. Like why are people dropping off? I don't know. Like, if you need more new patients, and this is the most common thing. People come to be an errand I need more patients, can we get more patients and like, well, you're seeing 35 people a week, you don't need more patients, you just need to keep them dropping off after five visits. If they need if you've recommended a you need them to you need to raise your rates, you need to you know, fix your onboarding process. So people love you and refer more patients to you and you don't have to get more patients you can take care of that. You have people don't want to hear it.

Justin Trosclair 51:02
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Hey, switch gears a little bit. I want to respect the time that we have left with each other. I like to ask them a little personal stuff. Do you have a home life balance? If not, what can you do better?

Unknown 51:14
Well, do I own life balance? I do. But I don't consider it. It's not balanced the way people think needs to be balanced. Because as an entrepreneur, there's not I mean, the balance looks a lot different than the job, okay, I don't get home at five and can turn off my brain about the business. I get it, I get home at 630 I hang up my kids. And once I go to sleep, I might be back doing some work. Or I can get off at three o'clock on Friday, hang out with them all afternoon, and maybe Friday night or Saturday afternoon, someone come up and I'll do a little social media something I'm doing some work, I'm always thinking about work. So it's not really a I wouldn't call it a balance, like 5052 expect 5050. But I can set up my business and I can I can work hard for a while and set my business in ways that it gives me time away from the business. But it's really hard to get completely out of the business. Because it's my passion. And it's why I do what I do. I love the work that I do. So balanced looks a lot different than what most people say or think I'm going to go work life balance is just didn't know existed that way.

Justin Trosclair 52:22
I completely agree with you. Because there's a he said, I can't turn it off. And I'm not neglecting my kids. I'm not going to collecting my wife. They're getting their time. And then when it's my time again, I'm excited. And I'm like, oh, let me go tweak, tweak with this and fix this or do this and you're still excited about it. I don't you know, that's what that's what, that's what I still consider a balance. It's as long as you know, in your third marriage, and kids hate you because you don't spend any time with them. Like that's a problem. There's not a balance there. Right, right.

Unknown 52:49
It's even so much to say the first couple of years is going to be worrying me like what I am going to be busy on the you know, grinding it out. But I'm going to get this to the point where you allows me to have some free time without losing income. And that's one thing I think people fail to do is systemized their business in a way that they can go on vacation with the family and not worry about losing income while you're at a stop because you're not treating patients.

Justin Trosclair 53:14
Now it takes it does take time, I'm assuming to be able to get to that point like with second doctors are figuring out how to to get

Unknown 53:20
that. It does. But it doesn't have to take long. Most people think it's got to take a long time. And it really doesn't you can set up your practice from the beginning to do that. If you have that as your vision. A lot of people are just trying to get out of their job and they built rebuilt, they built a job for themselves, rather than building a

Justin Trosclair 53:37
building an asset. Okay, any books? podcasts are apps that you think we should check out?

Unknown 53:43
Yes. I think the book that had the biggest impact on me and my career is is.com secrets by Russell Brunson,

Justin Trosclair 53:51
huh. Yeah,

Unknown 53:53
yeah, with Click Funnels. It's awesome. You know, it's one thing that I do is I you know, I've got it back pain, even book it, you know, I have on my website, and I give out the I share that with people. It's a Click Funnels funnel. And it's because like, there's a lot of other reasons to do that. But the way it's almost like, the reading that book is Russell Brunson takes the a lot of these theories and ideas and action steps and puts it in that book that can impact a clinic right away. And it's a book, I go back to you. And I've written in the notes. And it's one of the few books that then he's also got another book experts secrets, which came out afterwards. And there's two books i just i right in the notes in the margins, I go back and look at it and I get something new, or very few other business books that I've gone back to more than, you know, like, when the initial reading and so yeah, that would be that would be it is today, because he's add so much value to my life, just through his book. I'm like, I'm gonna use quick pause, because, one, it's good, but you know, like, oh, he gave me value, I'm just going to use this product is great and better than a lot of other options, alternatives. There are other options. But you know, it's the one that I like, and I feel like, you know, if I start again, today, I I'd be all over that for sure.

Justin Trosclair 55:07
I heard he's, he's in the process of writing a third book. Oh, well, yeah, I actually went through both his books, and I was, you know, trying to sell my own book, and all this and I was like, Okay, I went through, and I got like a document. I don't know how long it is, but it's quite well, a long time. And now I can just print it three or four times, like, okay, here's the acupuncture book. Here's the chiropractic clinic, here's the podcast thing. And you can just go through the story and the you know, all the little parts of his book, right. And now I want to reread the book, I just have like a six page handout of Okay, just go through it. Yeah, I love it. It took time to do it. But I like all this is somebody so worth it later on in life, hopefully.

fingers. Awesome. Well, how can people get in touch with you?

Unknown 55:48
If you want to get in touch with me, the easiest way to do that it's good. Aaron our calm. That's my website, you know, have links to my social media. That's probably that's probably the easiest way one place to go. I'm on Instagram and Facebook and on on the on the internet. So that's it, you can kind of take it from there. See someone like blog, podcast episodes, downloads, all those things

Justin Trosclair 56:13
that Aaron, you brought it assumed you would. And I just think that people are going to have to pause this a bunch of times, write some notes and re listen to it, because he definitely gave a lot of good information today. And I really appreciate that.

Unknown 56:25
Awesome. Justin, thank you very much. You asked a great question. So pleasure being here very easy to share the information with you and your audience.

Justin Trosclair 56:38
Well, that wraps up another episode or remind everybody that we have some great affiliate links available if you're into instrument assisted soft tissue manipulation, we've got the edge tool and we got the hot grips save you about 10% also with the edge you've got the like blood pressure cuff restriction system you got the G sweet inexpensive Mr. In case you don't doing cash practice. If you want to know what hosting us for podcasting, blueberry, pure VPN, that's one of those ones I use to help keep my payment secure as well as access the internet more safely. You've got the primal paleo grass fed protein bone broth style, save 10% on that no sugar, allergy free, gluten free, dairy free all those types of things mentor box get taught by the author, we got set preset for those floss bands that you may have heard about on one of the episodes really like those in the Amazon products that you might want to click the link in the show notes pages. And of course, I got my own electric acupuncture pin to go with the needle acupuncture book on time, you know, have a bundle set ring get them all together for a great price. also have the free downloads at doctor's perspective, net slash blueprints. And more lately I've been doing is substituting a fifth one like I've done a neat and depend on the guest, I might do a different type. So check back there. So all those resources can be found a doctor's perspective, net slash resources. There's also t shirts at.net slash t shirts, put up some new designs from time to time, like making lemons out of lemonade, shrimp po boy plus all the Chiropractic and podcast swag that you could want. If you have any ideas for guests, please send an email Justin at a doctor's perspective. net, I'd love to hear who you think would be good or a profession that you may not have heard yet. If you can send me review that's dot net slash subscribe Apple, Google stitcher Android devices, you just click that button it'll take exactly that a page you need to you can write a review, hopefully a five star review. I said it does help for other people to discover what we're doing here. And we've got over 100 episodes is gonna be like our third year, super excited. We're going a little mini series like we've been doing, which has been fun. I hope you've enjoyed them as well. That's that's the feedback I've gotten. And one thing I haven't really talked about too much is the doctor's perspective. NET slash support page. If you were about to host a cup of coffee, go for it. If you want to pledge a little higher fee, there's buttons for that there's even monthly recurring for those who feel like wow, this is like the cheapest mentor coach program I've ever seen because you interview so many different kinds of doctors and and have been able to implement things that I've heard and it works but monthly recurring payments, which also you can get you my books for free t shirts for free. The first book, you know that deals with health and exercise, getting on a diet, getting your financial health in order as well. things to learn in China, you know that books is available as well. And one thing that I don't have I don't have like a full blown page about coaching and things. But there's a little button there. I've had people request Hey, doctors and non doctors asking me can I do more than just answer a couple of questions or could you be my coach for a little while? And I say yeah, we can do that. So something I haven't really advertised but is something that I can do and do whether it's marketing strategies for new patients growth, those types of topics. If you're interested, just email me Justin at a doctor's perspective. net. As always, listen, critically think and implement. Have a great week.

Unknown 59:50
We just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen and integrate what some of these guests have said by all means please share across your social media rather review. And if you go to the show notes page, you can find all the references for today's guests. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire, giving you a doctor's perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai