Dan Madock DC explores Sacro Occipital Technique (25 year teacher), importance of cranial adjustments (craniopathy), types of pelvic misalignments, we dive into veterinary chiropractic, treatment red flags, elevator pitch and even a fishing story.
Teacher of Sacro Occiptal Research Society International ( SOT )for over 25 years. Diplomate of Craniopathy today we speak to a pioneer in keeping a chiropractic technique alive for the next generation.
As most good stories start, he inadvertently got introduced to chiropractic because he and his friend (a chiro) were after the same girl, but luck would have it she didn’t want either one of them. The friend encouraged him to go to Palmer College of Chiropractic and to specialize in Sacro Occipital Technique (SOT).
Contact Reflex Analysis: muscle testing technique. SOT was created from Dejarnette an osteopath turned chiropractic. He has a big focus on cranial bone misalignments or distortions and cerebrospinal fluid dynamics. Listen to the episode to figure out what all that means and why CSF matters. Dejarnette wrote lots of books on cranial conditions.
What are the 3 SOT pelvic misalignments? they call it Categories and pelvic wedges are a big part of the correction procedures.
1: anterior-posterior sway, wedges prone
2: sacral-iliac lateral sway, wedges supine, unilateral rib head motion dysfunction from head nod up/down. Typically left short leg, Sartorius tender on short leg, TFL tender on opposite side, C4 tender and occipital condyle tender short leg side.
3: left-right and anterior lean typically with sciatica, wedges prone but special position
SOT Seminars are held twice a year and certifications are available. SORSI.com
Dr. Madock is writing a book about Isocranial Technique (he created it). Isocranial Technique uses isometric resistance with patient movement along with Dejarnette’s Sutural Technique with a stable Category 2 to make even better corrections and it helps opens the cranial vault.
Dr. Mardock also discusses CMRT (chiropractic manipulative reflex technique) that deals with organ dysfunctional (liver, adrenal, etc.)… which is controversial within the profession.
He quickly discusses how to charge and bill wellness care versus acute care. Dr Dan also discusses a few red flag cases.
What is an ELEVATOR PITCH and why is it important to join groups?
VETERINARY Chiropractic www.facebook.com/chiropractorforpets videos adjusting dogs and horses.
www.vomtech.com veterinary- orthopedic manipulation developed by Dr. Bill Inman a veterinarian. This technique specializing in adjusting animals with instruments like spinalaccelorometer® (like an Activator®) ArthoStim®, VibraCussor®® and also therapies like cold laser
Staff: do a background check and only you should sign checks
Loves great danes, fishing (tarpin, red fish), guitar playing, hanging upside down on inversion boots, and going to the gym.
Books: Bruce Lipton – Biology of Belief
Tim Ferriss 4 Hour Workweek
Subtle Art of Not Giving a F Mark Manson
Lee Child Jack Reacher
Michael Crighton Jack Ryan Jurrasic Park
Mitchel Okokaku Parrael Universe
Katrin Becker String Theory and M Theory
Names mentioned: Dr Ortero, Richard “Dick” Versendol (contact reflex analysis), Dr. Vern Hagin, osteopath Dr Kietal cranial manipulation, Dr Gayon from france, Dr Mark Pick (CSF MRI studies),
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/34 here you can also find links to things mentioned, the Travel Tip and the transcript.
Justin Trosclair 0:03
I'm your host, Dr. Justin trust Claire. And today we're Dr. Dan Madox perspective
for doctors who want a thriving practice and abundant home life listen as your host, Dr. Justin trust Claire goes behind the curtain interviews, doctors and guess about real world trial
Justin Trosclair 0:28
on this episode.
Thanks for tuning in everybody. As always, it's a pleasure to spend some time with you each week. If you have any questions, comments, feedback, let me know feel free to leave a review on iTunes and kind of lacking in that area right now. But today we have Dr. Dan Medoc chiropractor and he explores the secret occipital technique. He's been a teacher for over 25 years. You can kind of say he's a guru. It talks about the importance of perennial adjustments. What is a diplomat of crony apathy, types of public misalignments, and we also dive into veterinary chiropractic with he learned a technique that I did a paper on back in my school days, we go through some treatment, red flags and elevator pitch and even have a fishing story at the end. I really hope you enjoy it. I think it's one of the first times we have a technique guru, a real passionate person about a specific technique on the show. So it's kind of exciting. So notes can be found at a doctor's perspective, net slash three, four, let's go hashtag behind the curtain.
Today on the show, we have a great guest, Dr. Daniel Medoc. He is a diplomate of crazy apathy sacred occipital Research Society, international instructor for 25 years, he has done a whole lot of pioneering and keeping the SOC system alive. So we're going to pick his brain today. How you doing today?
I've just fine. Thank you and yourself doing fantastic. How about jump in? Let's let's find out way back, why Chiropractic and then kind of bridges that story of how'd you get into the Secret Service little technique. I was attending classes at the University of South Florida, studying psychology with the intent to become a psychiatrist. During that time, I was working at the county hospital in the psychiatric ward, and taking classes in personality theories and theories of motivation. In my class, there was a man who was a chiropractor, which I didn't know at the time. But he and I were both interested in the same girl. We were standing outside waiting for her to come out thinking she was going to go and spend some time with one of the two of us. She walked by minister Good evening and jumped in a car with another guy and took off. He said to me want to have a beer. I said, Sure. So we went and had a beer and got talking. And he told me what he did. And I, you know, I was a student, probably 19 or 20 years old at the time, and I was driving back and forth between Clearwater and Tampa. And he invited me to spend here had an extra room in his apartment. And so a couple nights a week, I stayed there. And we made it a pact where I would stay with him. And I would take notes because he was a chiropractor. He was busy. So I took notes. And he taught me how to study for the big school. Because up to then I just been in junior college. So I started studying with him. And at the same time found out a little bit about Chiropractic and started referring patients to him. And they came back thanking me profusely, and they were getting better. And they were so happy that I started getting interested in what he did, and got my first adjust. And it was an amazing experience. I'd never heard so much sound in my neck before. But I felt great. And finally I'd said to him, you know, I think I'm going to go to chiropractic school. And he looked at me and said, I know. What do you mean, you know, he says, I've been watching you and listening to what you say and realizing that you were interested in a more natural way because as I was working the drugs that the patients were giving didn't seem to be helping them and they kept coming back into the psych unit. So I felt there was a better way. Very good. And which school did you go to?
I went to Palmer College of Chiropractic in Davenport, Iowa. At that time, the only chiropractic school or the biggest chiropractic school. There were other chiropractic schools in New York and Cleveland and Atlanta. That partner was the oldest in the largest and I said, You know, I could go to Texas, Texas has a chiropractic school and my doctor friend said no, go to Palmer. I said, but I could go to Atlanta. It's warmer in Atlanta that it isn't Davenport in the winter. He says go to Palmer. So I went to Palmer and he told me study so t so I went to Palmer College of Chiropractic and started studying sacred occipital technique. My first quarter I went and sat in the esoteric class, which is a after school class. And I sat in the back of the room taking notes. And the instructor, Dr. Over Terrell walked to the back of the room. It says Who are you? And I told him he goes what quarter you and I says, Well, this is actually my first day. He says, you know, you're not supposed to take this class until your seventh quarter. And I said my field doctor told me to come to Palmer and learn so T and he said, Don't tell anybody you're here and he let me stay the class.
Justin Trosclair 5:21
You know, why would they stop? Somebody wants to learn, right?
I guess I didn't know what I was writing down. But I was learning fast.
Justin Trosclair 5:28
I hear that I did the same thing with activator. I was like, how can I touch more hands and more and more bodies and things and they're like, well, there's this club. You know, you can go do that. I was like, okay, sign me up. Let's learn some stuff while we're here. You know, that's it. So was it immediate? Was it love at first sight? You just felt like going through school and nothing else really grabbed your attention as much as the SOC.
Well, I was focused on the SOC I learned God instead and all the other techniques that I could learn. I took extra curricular classes I met a man named rich verse and all Deke verse and all and he developed a technique called contact reflex analysis. Are you familiar with that? vaguely. It was a muscle testing technique. And I got interested in Kinesiology and muscle testing got into so t took all the esoteric classes, I could buy my last few quarters. I'd finished my clinical and was teaching in the post graduate school under Dr. Byrne Hagen.
Justin Trosclair 6:25
Wow. So you got the guru, the guru quick
apps. I started I picked the brains of everybody I could get my hands on. Wow.
Justin Trosclair 6:33
So our partner podcast is going to have more than just chiropractors on so when we say SOC, were saying sacred, sacred occipital technique. But But what is that
Dr. Dr. NET MBD turn that was the founder of sacred occipital technique. He was an osteopath and a chiropractor. And what he did was he took the osteopathic cranial techniques, and developed a technique called sacred occipital technique, which actually balances the body and prepares the body to accept the cranial adjustment, which makes for a lot less reactivity when the cranial adjustments are applied because the body is prepared to accept a cranial correction.
Justin Trosclair 7:13
Okay, and then why is the cranial correction necessary at all?
Well, if if you look at people's faces, you notice distortions in the face when I ball is larger than the other. One ear sticks out more than the other, their jaw swings more one side to the other, they have popping and cracking in the jaw. They have headaches that don't respond sometimes to spinal manipulation. And so I started learning about the cranial distortions, and I realized that 80% of the nervous system is housed inside the cranium evolved. So chiropractic only access is through the adjustment 20% of the nervous system. Not that that doesn't get wonderful results. But the addition of the cranium empathy gave me a wide range of other manipulative techniques that I could use to help my patients.
Justin Trosclair 8:01
So that's a core part of the the SLT technique and when you're evaluating a client patient, you know, maybe another another chiropractor might say is probably you know, you're having headaches, that's probably a C, one C to maybe just the occipital condo or something like that. Do you cross that path first? Or do you go straight to thinking about all of the cranial bones and evaluate,
start from the ground up, I look at the feet, make sure that there's not a asymmetrical pronunciation or foot pronation. I look at the balance of the knees I look at the pelvis, the pelvis is where we like to start in so t we have three categories of pelvic misalignments category to as a sake really like instability that causes lateral sway. When they're standing, we look at them from behind, we watch the way they move, they move from side to side, that would be a category to if they move from front to back, that would be a category one, and if they lean one side or the other or they lean right and in anterior that's an indication that they have an inner vertebral disc bulge or a hernia Asian and that would be a category three associated with right or left leg sciatica
Justin Trosclair 9:10
in so T is the pyramid shaped box blocks right then you put the hips
Yeah, we use the pelvic wedges and and Latin board with a padded board. And we use that to correct the rotational mal position of of the sake room and the pelvis the dominant bones. And that's a very gentle manipulation. And we use muscle testing techniques to evaluate the strength of the patient. To determine which side the weaknesses on we evaluate, leg length, and rip had motion and other physical indicators that tell us where to position the blocks to correctly reposition the pelvis.
Justin Trosclair 9:50
When I was in school. We had a guy you know, SLT guy who is like, he's always welcome for new students just go over there column, it'll teach you what he knows. And, and then one time we had a class was kind like a mini so t class because we didn't know much about blocking, blocking with the wedges except for the basic stuff that we learned in class. And he took us through, I guess, at this point, his own version, as we do, we modify things and add things as we go. And that's where I first learned about, you know, if you gotta write short leg, the one block goes underneath the SI joint and the other one goes underneath the femur head and dependent on the data, you know, face down, face up, you put them in different positions. That's all part of the esoteric kind of protocol, right?
That's correct. Why by using the indicators, we determine whether they need to be blocked in the supine posture for category to if they're fairly stable, we bought them facedown if their category one and if they have a sciatic problem, we block and face down with a different block position to correct the sciatica
Justin Trosclair 10:50
So would you say a lot of people use the I use those blocks sometimes when someone's when they lay down, and they're just their bag is really just kind of hurting and they just can't get comfortable and you put the blocks in a certain way based you know, based on distort leg and they get that immediate relief from just the stress of the muscles in the spine. I'm guessing that's a pretty rudimentary way to to really use those wages.
Well, you're online, you're unlikely to hurt anybody as long. I go by the indicators category two indicators, of course are unilateral Riverhead motion. If you look at the patient from behind and have them nod their head up and down, usually you'll get it right or left we have had motion and usually it's on the left most people are left short leg they'll have a Sartorialist tenderness at the medial knee on the short leg side tensor fashola and Elio trivial band tenderness on the opposite side, they'll have a fourth cervical tenderness, and usually and occipital Massasoit tenderness on the same side as the short leg. Oh, now that that's something you learned through
Justin Trosclair 11:49
practice, or that's pretty state. That's just something that can almost be taught in the seminars because it's just so common.
That's what we teach.
Justin Trosclair 11:56
I was not aware of that. That's pretty cool. How often do have seminars, we have two main seminars, one in the spring and the next ones coming up in Denver, Colorado in October on the 18th. And there's a certifications that way if you if you're really into the SOC technique that you can refer to somebody in another city, another state that you know, has the same qualifications.
There's basic certification, there's advanced certification, and then you can become a certified cranium path and after you've taught for so many years and submitted so many papers, then you become a diplomat and cranial Pathak techniques and that's what I am D ICF. diplomat of the International cranial Pathak society, which is a separate organization from sorcery which is Seiko occipital technique International. There's technique. There's organizations worldwide there's we have what's called Soto's safe Seiko occipital technique organization Europe Seiko occipital technique organization Australia, Asia, which is Japan and Australia. There's Soto, Brazil, Soto, South America, and I've taught for all of those organizations long plane rides had those are loan
Justin Trosclair 13:12
for the chiropractor for the chiropractic students out there, or even the practitioners who either maybe they don't feel like they're getting the results that they used to are always felt like there was something missing. Why would someone choose to do so t versus a, you know, vanilla diversified? Or an activator or bio physics, car wreck biophysics? Why would they choose? So t
Dr. Dr. net and his staff of researchers was amazing. And I have studied many other techniques. But my basic technique is always so team because scientifically and results wise, it makes sense to me.
Justin Trosclair 13:48
If you go to a different practitioner, do some focus more on the cranial part and some focus more on the sacred part. Or they kind of like allowed to have that kind of favoritism in the different areas are they there's a perfect calling you just stick with it?
Well, we follow the basic so t protocol, which leads you into the cranial techniques in the in the series of cranial corrections. And Dr. Dr. Ned has written multiple books on cranial technique. And there's also other doctors, osteopathic doctor title has written multiple books on cranium manipulation. Dr. Gay and from France, who is a geologist has wonderful techniques and his book. And so what I did and what I'm working on is developing my book on ISO cranial technique, which is using isometric resistance against the patient's head movements. To help to correct the cranium Dr. NET developed a technique called suture will technique which is a technique applied with the category to once we get the category to pelvic misalignment stabilized to open up the cranial vault and and it's an amazing technique, and the ISO cranial technique just adds to that procedure.
Justin Trosclair 14:58
And that's something that you've done developed over the years.
Yes, sir. If you go to Matt chiropractic clinic on Facebook, I have put videos on so that people can start to learn about the techniques or you can go to Seiko occipital technique, international sources synchro occipital Research Society International on Facebook and I published several techniques and procedures there. So T is also uses chiropractic manipulative reflex technique which is developed from Dr. Dr. nets, soft tissue techniques which were originally called bloodless surgery. And so we also do a lot of inner Oregon internal Oregon techniques, livery techniques, adrenal techniques stomach gallbladder, small intestine, large intestine, all of those are included in the CM RT procedures.
Justin Trosclair 15:50
Okay, all right, you mentioned some research is that like, more like a case by case studies from what you guys see in the in the clinic or papers they all come up with,
there's a lot of different papers that have come up with a stable analysis of the cranial vault and Dr. Mark pick who is out of California teaches a class and he has done research and published papers with his cranial procedures that he has done while a patient's in the MRI machine shows the expansion and the changes in the flow cerebral spinal fluid in the cistern a and in the ventricular system as he does the cranial techniques. And he also did a paper where he shows the movement of cerebral spinal fluid through the sake real system during a manipulative procedure under CT Fletcher Raska p
Justin Trosclair 16:44
what what is the CSF movement have to do what does that what does that matter?
Well, the basic premise of cranium apathy and SOC in particular is that what we're trying to do is enhance the flow is cerebral spinal fluid, cerebral spinal fluid is reproduced about five to eight times the day you have you produce about 800 milliliters of cerebral spinal fluid today, but there's only about 150 circulating in the system at any one time. The reason for that is because not only does the CSF cleanse and protect the brain, but it also supplies the sodium potassium and chloride balance necessary for the action potential, which is the communication of and function of the nervous system.
Justin Trosclair 17:27
Okay. And this allows it to bathe all the nerves in the spinal cord, and does it help produce more fresh CSF to get circulated, like quicker,
right? Remember that the brain is encased in a sack called the Dora and the outer layer of the the Monette Geez, there's three layers of the outer layers, the dura, then you have the Iraqi annoyed, which is a spider like vascular layer, spider web vascular layer. And then you have the pm otter, which attaches intimately to the surface of spinal cord and the brain. And it covers the entire brain and down the sacred and forms the file interminably where the the brain attaches in the second sacred segment. So that that's attention membrane, we refer to that as a reciprocal tension membrane, the sacred moves into reflection as the cranium moves into extension, and then vice versa, as the sacred moves into extension, the cranium moves into reflection, and that back and forth movement is what moves the cerebral spinal fluid.
Justin Trosclair 18:30
Okay. And that's what's gonna that's what he was actually able to show like on a CT and MRI.
Right? Wow, was that research shows the sacred well, Phil with CSF, or, in this particular case, fill with the enhancement fluid, and then as it changes, it flows back up again. So you can see the bet the ebb and flow of the CSF. Wow.
Justin Trosclair 18:49
has been out there have been really cool to see. What about you mentioned a lot of the Oregon stuff with that'd be one of those controversial even within chiropractic? Would that be like a controversial proceed that that so few people do our Is that pretty standard.
I don't know about any particular controversy, it just helps to drain the deliver sign your slides, you have two filters within the liver system that helps to clean out the liver, we help the flow of bile out of the gallbladder help the flow of intestinal substances, you know, the waste material and the the food that's being absorbed. A lot of people have irritable bowel syndrome, and have you know, toxic colon problems. And so we help to clean out the colon Of course, we use nutritional things to help that along with it. But we have the liver see Mr. T, and the liver pump, which we use to clean out the sign you sides of the liver. And we have techniques that we use for distraction of the stomach away from the diaphragm and to release the diaphragm. We have emotions, yes, their manual techniques, but then we also use contact reflex points.
Justin Trosclair 20:01
Okay, in there you find it. Now, this is the stuff that I think other professions when they when they hear about this, they're like what is going on with these chiropractors? But what type of results you are patients coming in specifically for these things? Or do you find them and talk to him about it, and then they report back later that this is actually cleared up. But this is feeling better? my bowels are better or whatever, like kind of talk talk us through that a little bit.
Well, I get a lot of patients that come in with those problems because of other patients and word of mouth. On my medic chiropractic clinic Facebook page. There's one testimonial on there where a woman came in, she'd seen other chiropractors and they didn't help her. And some of them caused her some difficulties. And so she came to me because she was referred by another chiropractor who said, I won't see you but go to Dr. Matt I keys better than I am. So she came in and she had a hiatal hernia. And we started working with with a hiatal hernia. And she got all kinds of results from it. As far as we did the stomach techniques and pulled the diaphragm and the stomach down away from the diaphragm. And she got a lot of relief from that. If it corrected it, I don't know we'd have to do a, you know, X ray and a barium swallow to find out if it corrected. It gave her a lot of relief. And she was very happy.
Justin Trosclair 21:22
And that's kind of name the name of the game sometimes is you had X, Y and Z symptoms. Those are now going. We don't know exactly why sometimes, but if it helped, that's a really good thing. Do you have any? Are there any misconceptions? You know, especially speaking other chiropractors about the SLT technique or maybe chiropractic has an entire profession? Are there any misconceptions that you you hear a lot that you'd like to dismantle right now,
I deal with a lot of patients, you know, most of my patients come in with neck pain, back pain, headaches, vertigo, they come in with extremity problems. And so t we deal with extremities as well risks, elbows, shoulder problems, knee problems, ankle problems, hit right problems. And so so t also has techniques for the extremities. When a patient comes in, we evaluate them and discuss their problems with them. And we start making corrections according to what we find. And what was it they used to teach us in chiropractic school, find it, fix it and leave it alone.
Justin Trosclair 22:24
There you go. That's pretty funny. Is there anything that you would say like patients ask on a regular basis about whether the technique that you do or what to expect, like some real, like some of the concerns that they have?
All most of them have either been to other chiropractors. And when I get done, they say, Well, my other chiropractor never did any of this. And I say, Well, this is what we do. And so t and this is going to make a lot of changes in your body that sometimes just spinal manipulation can't make? Or they'll say, well, I've never had that kind of adjustment before. My chiropractor doesn't do anything on my head. So people that have been to other chiropractors just kind of scratch their heads when they're leaving and say, Oh my god, this is so much different.
Justin Trosclair 23:07
But then what type of treatment plan? Are we talking? is this? Is this like a within a couple of weeks days? They feel better? Does it take a couple of months to see results with SLT?
Well, needless to say, the first thing we want to do is address the problem that they come in with, right and get them out of pain and explain the process to them with so t there's kind of a continuum is category three is probably the worst where the pet pelvis is completely locked up. And they have a psychiatric problem, or they have a spinal tilt and their pelvis is just not moving in relation to the sacred whatsoever. Then there's category to where there's hypermobility. And once we stabilize that, what we like to get them into this category one act, the category one procedure go through the category one techniques, which involves the internal organ techniques and their specific cranial techniques for each category glory. And so we tried to move them through and once their pain free, we've tried to explain to them, as you probably remember, the iceberg technique where the problem is like an iceberg, the pain is just what's above the surface, the problem is still the biggest part of the problem is still below the surface. And we have to correct that. And so I've had patients that have been coming to see me for 30 some years now. And they come in, they get better, and then they have some other problems and they come back and get stay until they get that fixed and then move on.
Justin Trosclair 24:31
Well, they also say there's maintenance involved where I was just reading something the other day, every three weeks for nine months. And those people didn't get the chronic, whatever they were suffering with before didn't come back. But for those who didn't do anything, eventually it came back in the nine months. So there's kind of like a maintenance proponent that you would be a part of for 30 years for some people
don't like the M word. Oh, what do you call it, then wellness care,
Justin Trosclair 24:55
a wellness care, okay, let's fix that, then
I tell her Your problem is fixed, you're feeling good. Let me check you again in a month, let me get check you again, in six months, whatever I think depending on the age of the patient, and the problems we're dealing with, and you have to deal with third party carriers. And you have to tell them that you know, your problem is fixed. Now, from here on out, you're going to be on a wellness program, you're going to come in every once in a while, you have to realize that if you come in and you're not having a, you know, you're not having symptoms, but we're just checking you out, that's wellness care, I can't build that to your Medicare or your health carrier, because the American health system is set up on fix problems until they go away. And then that's the end of it, they don't keep covering. So you have to kind of convert convert them to a cash basis symptom system where you come in, you're going to have to pay for the adjustment yourself because it's on a wellness basis. But if you have a new incident, if you have a car accident or you have a slip and fall or you hurt yourself in some sports activity, then it becomes a new process and the new procedure that then we can then bill to a party carrier.
Justin Trosclair 26:04
I'm glad you cleared that up. Because I know some people are probably going to have that type of question. And you just took care of all those types of concerns. So appreciate that. When someone's in school, or maybe they just got out of school and they're really struggling in practice. Do you have any practical tips to help them succeed?
Well, when I started out, I created a questionnaire This was recommended to me by Dr. Peter Fernandez. I made up a questionnaire and I went door to door and knocked on doors and talk to people. Join organizations join rotary join Chamber of Commerce, join networking groups, there's bn I and NPI. And you have to get out and meet people, you have to let people know who you are, and where you are and what you do. I have to develop an elevator speech. You know what that is? I do but tell people who don't? Well, my elevator speeches. When I get up in front of group of people, I just say to them Hi, I'm Dr. Dan, mad chiropractor, extraordinary and legend. In my own mind. I'm certified in advanced techniques for correction of neurological dysfunctions associated with the human spine new cranium. I'm also certified and veterinary chiropractic. So if it's canine feline are required, if it has a spine, I'll put it back in line to make it feel fine. Haha,
Justin Trosclair 27:22
I like that you got some rhyming going on and everything, some hooks. So it's a 30 to 30 seconds to a minute summary of what you do that will be memorable, and obviously explained that what you do some hopefully the person will walk away saying, Oh, I understand. And I want more information.
Well, and not only that, but then when you join these groups, you get to be the speaker. Everybody alternates and you become a speaker and you get 30 minutes to show what you do. Explain what you do demonstrate what you do. And tell people about chiropractic. That's true. And they meet so like being I they meet every week. So those are one of those big, the big points that you would say is it. It's crucial is getting out there and actually been involved with your community and with other business owners. Absolutely. I did some pro bono work. I used to do a work with the migrant workers here in Tampa. And I went out there one day and I was treating some of the migrant workers. And this grandmother brings her granddaughter over a beautiful girl about 14 years old. And she had pain in her hands and feet. And I said, Hmm, I don't know what's going on here. So I took her into a broader into the clinic and I ordered some blood work. And I ordered the rheumatoid the AMA tighter and the SLE bodies and it turned out she had serum lupus erythematosus. So I referred her to a osteopath in my area. And he said, Who are you? And I to him who I was. And he looked at me or he was talking to him on the phone and later developed a long term relationship with him. But he said, I know Matt, doctors that would have missed that diagnosis. He was on it, man. Well, you see, you see a lot of strange things come in and you have to know when it's Chiropractic and when it's something else. I had a patient come in one time that he was in pain all over and he was under the care of a sinus specialist. And I checked him out and did the basic neurological examination and found out his cranial nerves were not functioning the essence and the right Rosario as muscle was only working on one side. I sent him in for an MRI of the brain to found out he had a malignant at the base of the brain. And the scientists specialist was treating him for scientists polyps. Oh, man, you never know what you're gonna find. Said. We've had cases like that.
Justin Trosclair 29:42
Yeah, I had a guy came in with the classic Oh, my arms kind of tingly. And not the first time you know you, you've seen that. And we just had that pale look to kind of sweaty and it's like, You don't look so good. So I ended up getting a couple of stints or a bypass put in the next week. Couple of days as you we don't see it a lot. But when you do see it, it makes you remember, this is why we went to school. This is why we studied all this path ology and physiology and all these other things that you know, we don't really see a lot, but you have to be able to recognize it. Otherwise bad things happen or people just don't get better. Like he's like, lupus or, you know, a bad blood vessel.
There's a girl on my Facebook page. Right now she's she came in for lower back pain. And I ordered lumbar x rays and x rays look great, except there was just a little white haze over the liver. And I looked at it real close. And I called the radiologist up and I said, I want you to look at these x rays again. And I said look at look at the liver. And he saw that it was like a little haze of smoke, like when you walk into a room and it's just a little mist of smoke where people have been smoking. And so we ordered a CT scan, it turned out she had a tumor in the liver. And we sent her to her primary care doctor who sent her over to Moffitt Cancer Center. And they watched it for three months and they end up taking 20% of her liver out. Wow. And the radiologist didn't even see I took the 300 our course in radiology and anybody who's starting out, I recommend they get a board certification, take the radiology course take the orthopedics course take the neurology course get as much information as you can be the best doctor, you could be a doctor, the other doctors
Justin Trosclair 31:29
as Right. I mean, those people are very thankful for you. I mean, if somebody missed it, and you caught it, that's that's huge. And that's why guys, would you therefore,
I checked this one guy had came in with a tour to college and I checked him out. I did the tapped on his patella reflexes and got nothing. So I took x rays of his neck and his low back. And he had metastatic cancer all through his lower pelvis. And if I hadn't followed up on the I said, I'm going to take x rays of your lumbar spine. Why Doc, I can't get a reflex in your leg. What I looked at, I said, oh my god.
Justin Trosclair 32:03
Yeah, I don't want to tell you these bad news right now. So what do you say with the there's a push out there that says you don't need to X ray, everybody because it's probably not going to show anything of clinical value in your neck. But then if you don't adjust, if you don't X ray, when you adjust and something happens, then you got your license on your life on the line. So what do you say? Definitely X ray, every patient before you adjust them just to clear them of spinal issues and cancers.
I x ray probably 90% of my patients, especially the elderly, because they come in they got you know bone spurs, they've got pyramidal narrowing the uncle vertical joints, or hypertrophy, the ligaments and flavor maybe thickened. If they have a restricted range of motion, if they're in a in a traumatic injury. Yes, absolutely. If there's some kind of neurological reflex or something that doesn't work properly, absolutely X ray them.
Justin Trosclair 33:02
Do you? Do you find it matters? Do you change your technique? If you see for set joint hypertrophy or a lot of DJ D and these big bone spurs is that does that actually change how you treat people?
I do I do a lot of soft tissue work. I do a lot of traction work. I use a Cox Cable in conjunction with blocking techniques. If they're really severe, I have activated technique that I use. I also use an impulse. you familiar with the impulse adjusting instrument? I've converted over to impulse I love them. Yeah, that and the vibrant Kosor for muscle work and listening things up. I love the Bible customer. I have a Thumper.
Justin Trosclair 33:43
Yeah, so you're not a one trick pony, then
whatever, whatever needs to be done. It's make the patient well and get them well as fast as possible. Very nice. Don't you don't want to. I've had patients that have been going three times a week for three years to the same chiropractor and going well, shouldn't you be well, by now
Justin Trosclair 34:00
know, there was something on one of our Cairo sushi group, somebody was a big name podcaster was hating on a chiropractic. And I just was wondering is like, for as a patient? At what point do you have to say to yourself, maybe I should try somebody else. If you've been going to somebody for a year, and you really aren't, but 25% better than when you started. I go at what point do you say to yourself, I need to try a different doctor.
Well, I had a patient walk into my office about two years ago, 54 years old using a walker Okay, and she'd gone to another chiropractor for about six weeks didn't get any better. She'd been to a medical doctor who did an injection in her sacred and lumbar area didn't get any better. And she went to her primary care physician who gave her you know the standard painkiller muscle relaxer anti inflammatory regimen, right and she went to a massage therapist and he sent her over to me. I saw her on Thursday did the category to blocking came back in Saturday was any better the pain was in the sacred area. And they done an MRI of the lumbar spine which showed a little bit of degeneration but no pyramidal narrowing know discriminations. So I said, there's something else wrong here. So I ordered a CT scan and an MRI of the pelvis. And the radiologist called me up and said, What are you looking for? Nobody ever orders a CT and MRI at the same time of the pelvis. her and I said to him, I don't know. But here's what I got. And he ran both tests and two hours later, they called me back and said she's got my ally osteomyelitis of the pelvis, oh man ended up on IV antibiotics for a month, then she had to have a heart valve replaced because they've been so long treating it and didn't find out what was wrong. And it destroyed the heart valve. She ended up with liver problems. But she's alive today. And I ended up having to testify because she ended up suing all the other doctors.
Justin Trosclair 35:55
That's true. I mean, wow, we
will young CT sometimes,
Justin Trosclair 36:01
yeah, you do you want to be on the positive side of that which you can. I would love to ask you. The vet stuff is really interesting because I've looked into that personally. Back in school I did a paper on on animal chiropractic, I believe with the with the certification that you have. But that works pretty good though.
If you go to Facebook and look at chiropractor for pet three words chiropractor for pets, fo r you can see the videos. As a matter of fact, we had one where the local news cast channel 13 came in and did a special on us because there was a dog that was paralyzed in the rear end. They took her over to Home Depot and they made a wheelchair for the dog. Oh, so then they came they brought her into me one of my patients said, Well, why don't you take her to the doctor man, it does veterinary chiropractic. And so they brought him in. And while his little rat terrier by the name of Wally, we did video on him the first day, and he was completely dead in the rear end. And within five adjustments, he was up and walking again. So they came in and did a special on us. And that's on that page along with several others.
Justin Trosclair 37:07
What's hard to get a placebo effect on an on an animal, right?
Well, you what you're dealing with is the nervous system, but you're dealing with when you contact the body. Have you ever read Bruce Lipton's book on? I can't remember the name of it, but it's a book on. I think it's the Biology of Belief, okay. And what he talks about is that they take out the nucleus of the cell and the stem cells still survives. And what his basic premise is, is that it's the cell membrane that carries the information to the brain. So you're contacting the skin, you're contacting the membranes of the bone, you're contacting the membranes of the nervous system, and you're changing the body not only on a neurological but a molecular level. Okay,
Justin Trosclair 37:51
when you when you talk about that, is that something that's in every state a special test special certification to do animals and do it does every state allow it?
I'm not sure about all the states but I think so. chiropractors have been adjusting horses and the first one I ever had was an attorney who called me up she had a Doberman Pinscher who was supposed to perform in a dog show that weekend and he was walking sideways. So the veterinarian gave her the X rays, she brought the X rays to me. I looked at the dog looked at the X rays, and I did a toggle recoil and second cervical, the animal stood up walk straight one to show that we can have a dog Wow.
Justin Trosclair 38:31
Is it true that in horse racing, they can't get adjusted the day before the day of because it's considered an unfair advantage. Did I hear that or did I make that up?
I've never heard that I practice veterinary orthopedic manipulation. If you go to WWW dot v o m tech.com. It was right. It was developed by a veterinarian, Dr. Phil Inman. I took his class and I was blown away. This guy has more chiropractic philosophy and his little finger the most chiropractors I know, my town
Justin Trosclair 39:03
is instrument based, or is it manual based?
We use what's called a spinal accelerometer, which is a specially designed activator. Okay. Also use the Bible Custer. We use cold laser therapy. We use the impulse Yeah, or something. We use the are throw stem. If you're familiar with Dr. Through stem.
Justin Trosclair 39:25
Absolutely. They're all rapid firing pulse guns for adjusting.
Yeah, it's much easier if you're going to adjust a big animal. I taught veterinarians this technique down in South Paulo, Brazil. And this is a bunch of women that do manipulation. And they go from ranch to ranch. And they are beating them. They have shoulder problems, neck problems, risk problems, because they're all trying to do these hired force manipulations that big animals, and I showed him this technique, and they were just blown away at the results. And the fact that they weren't killing themselves to do it.
Justin Trosclair 40:00
Well, I'm surprised like a big horse doesn't kick you in the mouth for doing this to him. But is there a lot you have to like, approach them?
Yeah. Lean on me. They're like, they're like my great dane. They lean all over your when they make him feel better. And they love you for it.
Justin Trosclair 40:16
Watch out? Oh, my goodness, do you think that a chiropractor could transition into only adjusting animals and make a sort of a solid living doing that? Or would that be pretty tough?
It depends on who you get to know. And I had a lady called me up last about two weeks ago. Want me to come over and adjust 15? horses? That's
Justin Trosclair 40:37
Yeah. That's a busy afternoon. My goodness.
Justin Trosclair 40:41
All right. All right. You sound like a an older gentleman has been around for a while. I'm guessing you've had your share of staff members. Do you have any hints on how to hire good staff? And how to keep them around?
Yeah, fight, find out what their qualifications are. Find out what their experiences, do a background check your turn now in the hard way. Always do a background check. Yeah, I found out the hard way. Okay. So and make sure that no one's signs your checks. But you, oh, I have a staff member right herself. While my mom and dad were dying. And you know, going through their end of life procedures. I was pretty distracted. And I had a staff member right herself about $12,000 worth of checks. We had arrested on 58 counts of forgery and grand theft. That sounds fair. Almost put me out of business. Yeah, man,
Justin Trosclair 41:33
that's a lot of money. And especially if it just keeps it's a slow drip, you just notice things aren't quite making the payroll or the budget that you expected. You just don't know where the money is going?
Well, I'm afraid my account dropped the ball on that I it was almost a year before they finally figured out that the signature on the checks was not mine.
Justin Trosclair 41:51
My goodness. So background checks, sign your own checks. That's good information. I'll find it kind of going back to this question real quick. We're gonna we're gonna wrap up here soon. But any other marketing that you've noticed in the last few years that's worked really well to keep your new patients coming in, and maybe even just internal marketing to keep the ones that you've had coming back and things satisfied.
I've tried years ago, we tried the free ads that didn't work very well, you know, free spinal exam, I've seen doctors offer free adjustments, come in and get a free X ray and a free adjustment. Personally, I feel that if you're offering something for free, you devalue it. Correct. I think the best marketing is word of mouth, get your patients to tell other people. Get them to give you a rating on Google because internet is where it's at right now internet advertising, and you know, get a get a Facebook page, make up a good Facebook page, put lots of information on there. Get people to go to your page, invite people to like your page and get testimonials, videotape testimonials from your patients that are happy with you. and post it be sure you have a sign a release that gives you the permission to use their video. And if you go to the mad at chiropractic clinic on Facebook, or Cairo for pets, you can see the testimonials that we've put up there. And that's that speaks volumes. Get yourself a good website and post those on your website. My website is Dr. Dan maddock.com. Okay, all lowercase Dr. Da ma do ck comm
Justin Trosclair 43:25
check it out people. So nuggets from this guy.
You know, you need a good website. You need a good social media, get on Twitter, get on LinkedIn.
Justin Trosclair 43:33
Yeah, that's a true statement. What you've been in practice for a long time. A lot of chiropractors, maybe a lot of doctors in general business owners, when you have your own clinic is really hard to take vacation because of a multitude of reasons. Looking back in your career. And looking back in the last couple years, have you found a way to take more vacation or the appropriate amount of vacation that you would
like I my vacations are wrapped around my teaching. I taught for soda awesome. Australia, I flew to Australia spend some time in Australia. I taught in Europe in England and traveled England for a while. So I try to combine my teaching and my vacation time at the same time. Otherwise, I just take long weekends. Okay.
Justin Trosclair 44:16
All right. Very good. What's a long weekend, three days or four days,
three or four days, I'll go up to Denver this fall and spend a couple of days driving through the mountains and doing a little fishing in the streams and hiking and climbing.
Justin Trosclair 44:30
Yes, you'll be out there for the SOC seminar then. Right?
Right. I'm teaching out there with a bunch of great doctors, these doctors really willing to help. I've had several doctors who have come I always let student doctors that are getting ready to graduate come and follow me around the office and teach them as much as I can. So I believe that you need to give up give as much as you can. And that's why I put stuff on my Facebook page to have doctors learn. I've had doctors from other like the New Jersey chiropractic Association, one of the doctors there said he was so happy to see me putting up the videos that so many doctors have lost the ability to manipulate the statement though philosophy adjusting techniques and we need to bring that back manual adjusting is what I do. Right. Agreed.
Justin Trosclair 45:21
So now we're going to switch over just a little more personal questions. Besides chiropractic you have any kind of hobbies are things that you do so they volunteer to kind of keep your having a home and work life balance?
Well, I I go to the Chamber of Commerce and we have some charitable things that we do through them. And I have a girlfriend and I have a Great Dane name dash I just posted a video on my Facebook page where I'm giving Nash a shower
and I was I actually put up a video where I was playing playing the guitar and Nash comes in at the end so pretty much tied up with the girlfriend and the dog and do it little fishing and that's about it sounds like some golf once in a while you actually get to go out and fish them
Justin Trosclair 46:05
or is it a once once to twice a year
I live in I live in lambda lakes Florida so there's plenty of places to fish don't have to go very far in the Gulf of Mexico is right close by Oh yeah,
Justin Trosclair 46:17
you know red fish the fish Red Red Snapper I believe it is a red fish.
Red Fish and red snapper two different animals but yes, I've been read we put out with red fish. There's several captains couple of them are patients of mine so we charter a boat go out for a day. And these guys know right where the fish are. Oh man. I think it's I think it's the red fish saves me having to get buy a boat but
Justin Trosclair 46:40
yeah, is the red fish. We just drop a line really back up and pretty much it caught one.
Well we put them in Oman and cast it out. You hit a red dress. You're going to be busy for a while and Okay, good size red fish will take you a few minutes to bring in. In the springtime. We take a day and go tarp and fishing down at Boca grand those are being aren't they? Oh yeah, I got a hold of one one day that was about 180 pounds, fought it for 45 minutes. Almost got it to the boat and a bull shark came in and destroyed it in a second. Oh, no. Yeah. When we first went out I was dangling my feet over the edge of the boat. The captain says. I don't think you want to be doing that.
Justin Trosclair 47:19
hammerheads, the bull sharks are deadly.
Justin Trosclair 47:24
Wow. That's pretty cool to see though. I mean that that was not the fishing story I was expecting to hear. That's pretty cool, though.
Bringing bringing in the carpet is a challenge. That's about a 40 minute
Justin Trosclair 47:34
battle. I don't know if I have it in me. I guess you can learn how to do that slowly.
You gotta be in shape. I took a couple of attorneys out one day and what I'm hooked into a tarp and about 15 minutes into it. He had to hand off the pole because he couldn't hang on to it anymore.
It's too much for him. We'll split the guys will just
Justin Trosclair 47:53
want to take a picture with it. It's a team effort.
Do you happen to have is real popular these days that have like a morning routine or lunch routine? Do you do you happen to have anything like that it gets you grounded and ready for the rest of the day.
I go to the gym and exercise
Justin Trosclair 48:08
perfect. You have a routine like CrossFit or just you know your standard machines and cardio equipment.
I do cardio equipment where I got I've got a set of the gravity and version boots so I hang upside down. Oh, that feels pretty good. Oh, that's wonderful.
Justin Trosclair 48:23
Is that 10 minutes a day or do you do longer?
Oh, I don't hang up. I don't think I hang there for 10 minutes. I think about five to six minutes is plenty for me. Okay,
Justin Trosclair 48:34
but those are the ones where you're completely upside down or they're kind of the ones where you're like 45
hang upside down. Okay, do some conversion position. Okay.
Justin Trosclair 48:43
You have any favorite books, blogs or podcasts that you think are definitely worth sharing and for people to read and change their life?
One of the books I like is a Tim Ferriss, the four hour workweek classic. There's another one. I can't remember the name of the author right now, but it's the art of not giving up a few. Yep. And I had an attorney friend of mine turned me on to the lead child jack Reacher books. Yeah, they made a couple of movies about it with Tom Cruise's jack Reacher
Justin Trosclair 49:13
right. Did you like them?
I like the books better. You got to understand that Tom Cruise is really not jack Reacher jack Reacher in the books is 260 pounds of solid muscle expert ex Military Police. And Tom Cruise is about five foot six.
Justin Trosclair 49:29
So they needed a rock or something in there.
Yeah. And then, of course, I read the game of Game of Thrones books. And I like Michael Creighton. He wrote several books sphere and the the jack Ryan novels. Oh yeah. And he wrote the Jurassic Park series. And that's the same guy. Yeah. Michael Creighton. Wow. drastic. The books are a lot different than the movie. I
Justin Trosclair 49:54
keep hearing that. I just never went down that path to read them. But I always enjoyed the movie. So the book gotta be better. Right? So the
books are amazing. I get them on Audible. I listened to them while I'm driving.
Justin Trosclair 50:05
Another audible guy. We have several guests talking about audio books. I really I really dig it. That's the that's a nice way to get things done and use your driving commute time wisely, huh?
Yeah, I've been going through the you ever heard of Michio Kaku know, M i c h i O. K, ay ke you Michio Kaku, he's got some books, he's got the book about the mind, okay. And he's also got a book called parallel, parallel worlds or parallel universes. He's a theoretical physicist, his, his big thing is string theory and M theory, very, my pay grade, very, very heavy reads.
Justin Trosclair 50:46
And this is what you listen to for fun.
Well, I'm trying to get smarter as I get older.
Justin Trosclair 50:51
And I commend you for that. I've heard that some very tough topics right there.
The physics, that he goes in parallel worlds goes into the history of physics, and goes all the way back, even before Einstein and talks about all the theories and how they've developed over the years and all the people that have made contributions to theoretical physics and nuclear physics and the understanding of parallel universes, they say there's up to 23 different possibilities of universes, or parallel dimensions that can exist. And it gets pretty mind boggling.
Justin Trosclair 51:28
Yeah, I'm already kind of a martyr getting confused.
I liked it, I have to turn it off after you know, an hour, so I have to turn it off. Because I just scratched my head and go, I'm not trying to understand what he's talking about.
Justin Trosclair 51:41
It's like you can get so into it to where you're just trying to remember the definition of what they were saying two hours ago, you like I don't, I need to go back. Because that's compounded on to this theory. And now I'm lost completely lost
all his his book on the mind. He talks about how they're doing brain mapping and impact plants in the brain. And, you know, he talks about the future what what mankind's going to be like in the future. And, you know, will we be partially or perhaps predominantly bionic? Will they be able to take your intelligence and put it onto a computer and put it into an Android? Somewhere in the future? Who knows? Wow, someday we may, we may be the Borg. God's out.
Justin Trosclair 52:24
What do you do you happen to have any final thoughts are words of wisdom that you want to leave for our guest today.
If you haven't been to a chiropractor, find it. So t chiropractors, somebody who knows creamy apathy, and see Mr. T techniques, and try that, especially if you've been to chiropractors before and have not been satisfied with your results. Otherwise, I believe that even the worst chiropractic is better than no chiropractic at all. Very good. get adjusted,
Justin Trosclair 52:54
get adjusted, hashtag get adjusted, not dramatic. We want to thank you for for your time today and educating us on SLT on veterinary, chiropractic, and everything else that we talked about. Really appreciate your time. And we'll definitely put all in the show notes, Episode 34. And we'll have everything a lot of the resources that you talked about today will be will be on there for for quick access for people.
Absolutely. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Justin Trosclair 53:22
Well, I hope everybody learned something today, I didn't know what a contact reflex analysis was. It was a nice refresher for me about the public misalignments and the different categories. From what I learned from the past doctor and to what he had said today, good luck with the ISO cranial book that you were talking about. And there are definitely websites available for visionary chiropractic. If you need somebody in your area, just Google that and you should be able to find the view em technique. And I believe there's another one. All right, again, show notes, doctor's perspective, net slash three, four Travel Tips coming up next.
asked me the other day, they said I'm 30 pounds overweight, which is more than what it used to be, I've got no motivation to go to the gym, but I know I need to do something. That's what that's what my book is about. You can't go from eating 3000 calories, dropping them to 18. without some kind of plan. I can help you get there. And all the little steps in between, maybe you can only exercise for five minutes. But start there, don't feel guilty about it. And then work yourself up to that 30 minute goal that everybody says you should do. That's what the books about you can get a doctor's perspective. NET slash free ebook or you just buy it on Amazon as a paperback or Kindle. If you notice on our website, we have all these pop ups where you can get a 12 exercises for your neck and low back core strengthening. We also have stretches for numbness and tingling that are in the arms, feet hands, I want you to know we have merchandise at a doctor's perspective. NET slash shop mean we've got t shirts and logo podcast gear that I would be so thankful if you got definitely post a picture on social media and and tag me and I'll give you a shout out. As always, you look at the top right of the website, we have all the all social media icons, just pick the ones that you like to use the most followers, you're going to get quotes from the each week's episode. You know, if you sign up on an email, you'll get all the updates and important announcements. So as always, I appreciate you and thankful for you listening and as you'd like to leave a review on iTunes, Stitcher or wherever you listen, have you much obliged.
travel tip as you're well aware, I have advocated to not check your luggage. But recently I have been packing a little heavier than usual going to Western countries and then bringing back a couple of souvenirs so as like you know what I don't want to carry this thing around and there's weight limit sometimes when these planes so let me just check it and now we're just the carrier nice little bag on the roller anything around. It's gonna be great. Yeah, both times going to New Zealand and Australia. They lost her luggage ridiculous and you know that the mail it back a couple days later. It's just ridiculous. Once again, I'm going to go back to checking my bag only. Luckily, it's always on the return. So everything there is not quite as urgent as if I was in the country or the city or whatever. Anyway, food for thought.
We just went hashtag behind the curtain can this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor's perspective. net to see all the references from today's guests. A sincere thank you in advance. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor's perspective.
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