E 96 Liver and Kidney Transplant Surgeon Dr Praise Matemavi DO

Dr. Praise Matemavi, DO talks to Dr Trosclair on A Doctors Perspective Podcast

Dr. Praise Matemavi is a story of determination and seeking your dream no matter the circumstance. Listen to her story: Zimbabwean to USA, childbirth at 18, osteopath doctor, liver and kidney transplant surgeon fellowship and topics about organ transplants.

From Zimbabwe, moved to America at 14, had two babies by the age of 21 (still not an American citizen) (also not a healthy relationship so divorced) but she never lost her passion to be a surgical doctor. Listen how she went from a steady critical care nurse career to finishing 60 hours of college in one year along with passing the MCAT as a single mom. Now Dr. Praise Matemavi has finished Michigan State Osteopathic School, did a fellowship at New York Presbyterian in Queens and is now at the University of Nebraska for fellowship (she finishes in one year). Her specialty is multivisceral transplants (liver, pancreas, kidneys and bowels).

Dr. Praise has a dream of going back to Zimbabwe one day to do kidney transplants (one day liver transplants) so the citizens do not have to travel to another country for the surgery. This is actually a challenging scenario because although some programs like this are available in countries like Ethiopia already, it would be new to Zimbabwe.

Her father moved the family to America because of her dream since the age of 10 to be a doctor. He is a pastor and his daughter got pregnant and became a nurse. Her mother also had an opinion on the situation. Take a listen to how impactful family is on your life decisions.

We dive into the complexity of liver and kidney transplants, who is a candidate and how to avoid that surgery. Metabolic syndrome, alcoholics, hepatitis C and fatty liver from fatty food consumption.

Should we all be organ donors? Will a doctor withhold treatment because you have amazing organs?

What are the 3 types of organ donor classifications?

The patients who need organ transplants are quite sick, How do you cope with patients who reject the transplant or don’t make it off the operating table?

As a female black surgeon how does she confront subtle discrimination and /or ignorance when at new hospitals?

Can you guess where the highest population of Zimbabwean are located in the USA?

Book: Gifted Hands – Ben Carson, Cutting For Stone – Abraham Verghese, How to Do a Liver Transplant – Kellee Slater

drmatemavi@gmail.com Instagram: drpraise0624

Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/96 here you can also find links to things mentioned and a full transcript of the show.

Full Transcript of the Interview <strong> (probably has some grammatical errors)</strong>. Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:03
Episode 96 liver and kidney transplant surgeon I’m your host Dr. Justin just clear and today your doctor praise

2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties. Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.

Today’s show is inspiring. I don’t wanna spoil too much, but she’s from Zimbabwe and her family moved to America when she was 14 so that she could pursue her goal to be a doctor. Now she ended up changing to liver and kidney transplant surgeon along the way, but that’s okay, so today we’re going to talk a little bit about her backstory which is pretty unique because it goes more than just what I just said. She has a plan to go back to Zimbabwe one day to be able to do kidney and liver transplants because it’s not really set up yet. So we’ll talk about that. What kind of conditions set you up to need a transplant How do you deal when you lose a patient doctor praise and I have a really good conversation it’s flows back and forth there’s some laughter in there there’s some seriousness in there are really think you’re going to be inspired by this, especially if you are a woman minority. You’re gonna see Wow, she can do it. I can do it. So let’s not wait any longer. a doctor’s perspective, net slash nine six, let’s go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China and Nebraska. Today’s guest begins her journey from Zimbabwe makes it to Michigan State osteopathic school then does New York Presbyterian in Queens and is now finishing up her fellowship at the University of Nebraska Medical School. Today’s guest is a transplant surgeon. Dr. Praise Marty. Marty. Welcome to the show.

Unknown 2:02
Thank you for having me. Whoo.

Justin Trosclair 2:04
We just had a pre chat, y’all. I don’t hear anybody complain. This lady is working 120 hours a week. I don’t even know there’s that many hours in the week to work. Because you have to sleep and she has his family and everything. So blows my mind. Like you said your last year. So I mean, congratulations. Thank you.

Unknown 2:23
You make it sound horrible. It’s not that bad.

Unknown 2:29
You can see what my priorities

Justin Trosclair 2:30

Well, when I first saw you on Instagram, I was like, Okay, this is pretty cool. We have a doctor. She’s a woman. And she’s black. And I like to highlight some of these things. And I started looking into your, you know, Goofy and everything. Yes, right. You can stock somebody real easy on Google. And I came across this article is a really long article, y’all, but really good. We don’t have to go through the everything. But you got a very unique, interesting backstory, take a couple minutes. Give us the highlights, if you will, and want people to kind of see where you’re from and where you’re at now, if you don’t mind.

Unknown 3:06
Absolutely. So um, I was born and raised in Zimbabwe. And we moved when I was 14 years old to the states to Michigan. My parents knew I wanted to be a doctor, since I was a very young girl, I wanted to be a surgeon specifically wanted to be a surgeon. And at that time, in my country, there was only one medical school. And so my chances are of pursuing my and become better off, you know, if we came to the states or the UK, so my parents actually sacrificed their life basically, for me to follow my dream. So we came to the states when I was 14, I finished my high school in the States. And I got pregnant when I was 18. So at that time, I was already in college doing pre med, and pre med was no paying the bills. So I had to find a plan B because I had it baby. And I needed a job. And I was not a citizen or permanent resident, so everything I was paying out of pocket. So I went to nursing school because it was affordable. And I could do it at a community college. And my parents could help me with childcare. So I went to nursing school, and I did my nursing degree. And I worked as a critical care nurse at Memorial Hospital in South Bend for three years. And I did cardiac critical care there. And then after that, you know, I had this timeline, I had decided when I was probably 19 or so I had one child at the time, I had a timeline and I decided by the time I was 29, I should have accomplished my dream of becoming a doctor. Because you know when you become pregnant out of wedlock, and your pastor’s daughter, and it’s it’s just not a very double. Not a very good situation, Pastor child well. So you know,

Unknown 5:01
it was one of those things where I know my parents, for one thoughts, my dream of becoming a doctor would never be realized, because now I was going to be a single mom. And I was going to, you know, have all these other responsibilities with being a parent. And I made the decision to get married to the father of my child, which was, that’s another story. But

Unknown 5:26
anyway, we got married, we had two children, it was a very abusive marriage. So I ended up, you know, getting divorced from him, and he ended up leaving the country. But my dream was still there are becoming a doctor. So I had the advantage of working as a nurse, and I was interacting with physicians and things like that. And you know, when Don’t ask me, so what what are your plans and things like that? I would always tell them, well, I’ve always wanted to be a doctor, and I’m still on that path. And you know, I got a lot of encouragement to continue on. So I went to at this time, I was still you know, not a citizen or permanent resident, so I had no access to financial aid. But I was making very good money as a nurse. And I went to Siena heights University, which was affiliated with my college, where I went for nursing school. And they had this degree of applied science, which if you were maybe a radiology technician, or a respiratory therapist or a registered nurse, and you wanted to do a bachelor’s degree, you could. So I went there, and I talked to them about doing

Unknown 6:37
it by closing up Applied Science. But I had a timeline, as I say before, and I had already taken, you know, the previous year, when I decided I was going to go back to school, I had already taken my projects that I needed for medical school, and I did them all in one year. So organic chemistry, general chemistry, biology and physics. I do them all with that labs and everything in one year, which was two semesters,

Unknown 7:03
wasn’t it like 60 hours, it was crazy hours.

Justin Trosclair 7:06
I don’t know how you any words,

Unknown 7:08
and I was full time. And I had two kids at the time. I’ve been but my family was there to help me. They helped me so much they were you living at home at least No. But I would drop off my kids a daycare and my parents would help me pick them up or things like that. I’ll drop them off in the morning. I’ll be at school all day. And then my hospital had this program, which was in weekend alternative program. Whereas the nurse, you could work every weekend and be paid pretty good money for it, and have to work like once every two weeks during the week. So it worked out perfectly because I could go to school during the week, I was making more money than the nurses who didn’t work weekends and what you know, throughout the weekend, it was perfect. Like,

Unknown 7:51
I don’t have a life

Unknown 7:52

Unknown 7:54
Anyway, and it was 12 hour shifts. So I would be committed to working an eight hour shift every other Friday to 12 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday, every Saturday and Sunday. I didn’t have a social life. So I didn’t need to go any way over on the weekends. So this was perfect for me.

Justin Trosclair 8:10
Real quick, your culture? Is it common for the parents to sort of be super engaged in kind of raising the children?

Unknown 8:18
Yeah, I think so I think it’s one of those things where the parents do become very involved. And they’re, they’re very hands on,

Justin Trosclair 8:25
because in China is like, you have a kid and then I give them the grandma. And then I go work, or I live in a completely different province. And the kids are raised by the mom completely in a bit. So I was curious if it’s kind of similar in that in Zimbabwe,

Unknown 8:38
we have very family oriented, and we are very, our parents helped a lot they I have friends whose parents left their lives and move to wherever they were to help them with their kids. So yeah, it’s one of those things that I’m really grateful for.

Justin Trosclair 8:55
The relationship was it strained, I’m just curious, I’m pregnant, and we moved here. And now I’m a nurse and the doctor or it was there always that at home

Unknown 9:03
for my parents, they, they really didn’t care what I did with my life as long as I was happy and fulfilled. And they knew that I wanted to be a doctor. You know, like I said, from a very young age, my dad actually got me the book gifted hands by Ben Carson when I was in fifth grade. And I read that book in one night. And at that time, I wanted to be a cardiothoracic surgeon and not a neurosurgeon. So you know, there was a team from Loma Linda that had come and done congenital heart surgeries in Zimbabwe Perry network hospital at that time, so I had found out about it. And so I thought, oh, heart surgery, oh my gosh, this is so cool. This is what I’m going to do with my life. So that’s what I had decided I was going to do when I was 10 years old. And so, you know, my dad understood that passion. And he understood that that’s what I you know, there was nothing else that would make me happy unless I followed my dream. But my mom was more like, Well, you know, you’re already a nurse, you make pretty good money, money, a pretty comfortable. I mean, why do you have to go through the whole thing of going through all these crazy classes and the MTN and going through medical school and things like that. You could just be happy, you know, so it was more, you know, my dad was like, yeah, whatever you decide, go on. My mom was like, one, you know, it’s kind of hard for you, we see how hard it is for you raising these two kids alone and going through all this alone. You know, why don’t you think about it. I mean, nursing is pretty good, you have a lot of other avenues, you could be a nurse practitioner, nurse anesthetist, so many other

Justin Trosclair 10:34
kind of a doctor.

Unknown 10:37
So but, you know, initially when I told them I was pregnant, it was it was very difficult for them. And I think just because it’s not something they expected for me because I was a straight A student. And I was very focused on my studies. And it’s just not something they expected from me probably for my sister, but not for me.

Unknown 11:00
They but

Unknown 11:03
we always we know what you mean. So that was that. And so you know,

Unknown 11:06
after I did all those classes, I took the Kaplan course to help me study for the M cat. And because I was still taking the classes when I was when it was time for me to take the advocate, I was the last class to take the M can’t, you know, by PIP bite paper, filling out those bubbles.

Unknown 11:26
And so I remember, I think it was an April or May when we took the M cat. And it was so when when I got the results back. I did very well, better than I actually expected. And so I applied to medical schools, and you know, I was getting interviews for medical school, but I needed a bachelor’s degree. So that’s how I ended up going to see an A heights University and talking to them about getting a bachelor’s degree in a year. Because you had

Justin Trosclair 11:55
to have it,

Unknown 11:56
I had to have it in a year so that I could start medical school the next year. Me and which meant taking 60 credits in that year in to be able to get the requirements I needed to graduate with a bachelor’s degree. So the lady was, you know, initially was not convinced that it could be done. And they asked to talk to her director who, you know, she was like, well, we can try it. I’m sure she was thinking. I mean, we can try there’s no harm in trying,

Justin Trosclair 12:22
your GPA is gonna go to the crapper. So good luck.

Unknown 12:26
So they were very so good about helping me figure out how to manage the classes, because when you’re taking 30 credits, there’s no way you can physically be in class for all those 30 credits. So okay, that’s good. So what some of the classes I ended up having to take them online. I remember I had one class that was on the weekend, and the other classes I attended. So it ended up working out where, you know, I was able to take those 30 credits, and I still came out with a 4.0 GPA. So

Unknown 12:59
so he was it was difficult, but, you know, if I was focused, I knew what I wanted to do. My I was set on the, you know, on the prize, and that was that. That’s perfect.

Justin Trosclair 13:11
Yeah, cuz I mean, I mean, organic chemistry. That was probably my worst scores I’ve ever had in my life. I don’t know, I guess I just didn’t study hard enough for you go by.

Unknown 13:22
I actually, you know, that the formal was for the for the bachelor’s degree that I did that with 30 credits each, though, got any chemistry I had taken the year before with the physics, General Chemistry and Biology. Yeah. And that I did not get an A in organic chemistry, organic chemistry was the bane of my existence. That was a very difficult class for me. I guess just

Justin Trosclair 13:45
the weed out class. I don’t know, maybe maybe you actually have used it in your lifetime. But I was just like, they’ll just want to make sure we could focus and study hard for something.

Unknown 13:56
I look back and I’m like, why did I go through this? not helping me.

Justin Trosclair 14:02
So what what was the transition, you said heart. Now you’re just focusing more on liver and bowels and something else you had said?

Unknown 14:11
liver, kidney, pancreas, we do small ball transplants where I’m training. And you know, I wanted to get this comprehensive training. Just because, you know, in transplant surgery, it’s such a young field. And they so much to learn and they so much going on is everything is so intricate and complicated. And I wanted to get the experience of training in everything I’ve done not transplant. It’s not very many programs that do you know, like multi visual transplanted about transplants and things like that.

Justin Trosclair 14:41
So it was a choice. Like you could have just focused on livers all day long,

Unknown 14:45
just the livers and kidneys and just done kidney and liver transplants, but I wanted to be able to get that comprehensive training. I mean, one of the things I’m really wanted to do kidney transplant so that I can go back to Zimbabwe do kidney transplants because that’s something that we can do. Like especially living donor kidney transplants.

Unknown 15:07
liver transplants, not so much. We don’t have the infrastructure to be able to do liver transplants in Zimbabwe. I mean, I am, I am a dreamer. And I hope one day will be able to do it. You have a blind

Justin Trosclair 15:19
after you

Unknown 15:22
a liver transplant.

Unknown 15:26
But, you know, with kidney transplants, it just really, it really bothers me that my people have to go to other countries like South Africa, India, China, to get their liver truck. I mean their kidney transplants where they could just get treated kidney transplants at home. Yeah. So it’s one of those things where I really wanted to focus on kidney transplants, but then, you know, it’s like liver transplant is like the ultimate abdominal surgery. It’s like, there’s nothing like at least pretty awesome. And so it’s one of those things where you you’re going to kidney transplants, going to training liver transplants, you’re going to training everything else transplanted. And yet the better for it.

Justin Trosclair 16:07
Yeah, I mean, they’re so intertwined anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t it just doesn’t it just like you just put up a couple of arteries and veins and then just like reconnect them, and then just pop it out? What’s so difficult about that?

What do you think so long?

Unknown 16:24
much what you do? Like,

Justin Trosclair 16:26
a finger?

Unknown 16:28
Yeah, touch everything.

Justin Trosclair 16:31
Oh, how many years of fellowship is this?

Unknown 16:34
fellowship is only two years.

Unknown 16:38
Oh, yeah, well, but then you’re already trained as a general surgeon when you come into fellowship. That’s true. So now you’re specializing. So that’s pretty much all you do. Your focus is on your specialty, which What I really love about transplant is that you are the ultimate general surgeon, you have to lock jaw surgery to be able to do transport. Because then if you can do transplant, you can do anything about them. Yeah, it’s pretty, pretty awesome.

Justin Trosclair 17:03
Do you? Do you have to do the general surgery? you’re figuring out all the piping and all these different things, you got to be involved with what nine to 15 hours surgeries? Does it take that long

Unknown 17:14
so far? Our liver transplants it does, it doesn’t take that long, I’d say anywhere from it depends, you know, with how difficult the cases, what the patient’s history is, what the body happiness is, things like that will kind of determine how long the surgery is going to be. If the patient has had multiple surgeries before and they have adhesions all over, everything is stuck. That’s going to take much longer than somebody who’s never had any abdominal surgeries. So for our liver transplants, I’d say the shortest I’ve been in a liver transplants, you know, with my season attendings who’ve been doing this for years is probably three hours, and longest would probably be maybe about 10 hours sometimes takes a little bit longer. They’re just depending on what the situation is,

Justin Trosclair 18:02
the most your patients are they gonna be like in pretty bad health at this point where there’s from alcoholism, smoking, just cancer me.

Unknown 18:09
So a lot of times our liver transplant patients are very sick. And it can be either from alcoholic liver disease from metabolic diseases that cause you to go into liver failure from one of the main things that’s now causing liver failure is non alcoholic liver disease, which is from obesity, basic, and basically what we call fatty liver, then we have things like, like metabolic syndromes, like I mentioned before, like offered trips in antibody deficiency or things like that. And then you have hepatitis C causing cirrhosis or anything that can cause cirrhosis, that can cause you to going to liver failure. So lots of fun things, not just because I know a lot of people assume that liver transplant is just for alcoholic liver disease. But these are other things that cause liver failure. And then I’ll kidney transplant patients actually sicker than they appear because a lot of times they’ve been on dialysis for a long time. And just the matter of them being on dialysis makes them sick.

Justin Trosclair 19:21
Yeah. Do you find that the fatty liver stuff mostly just obese people? Or can you be kind of thin high metabolism and you’re still eating french fries and fried everything? And you can they can still get fatty liver to right?

Unknown 19:33
Yeah, I mean,

Justin Trosclair 19:34
this is the right you can just do an ultrasound

Unknown 19:36
and find out. And you know, triglycerides and cholesterol checks and things like that.

Justin Trosclair 19:43
So if you can get that under control, the liver can heal itself in stop being fatty if you catch it early. Absolutely. Okay, do some PSA is right here.

Okay, should everyone be an organ donor? Are we surprised? I just think, Okay, this is my thoughts. You know, you have to register vote, you gotta do all these different things, it should be mandatory, unless you have some kind of religious reason, or you click the nobody

Unknown 20:07
give that then

Justin Trosclair 20:09
it should just be default your dad or taking your organs. And if everybody does that, you don’t have to be scared that the doctors like I wasn’t quite dead, yet. They gave up because I had healthy organs. And I was just hitting my car like, no, we’re not gonna do that. Hey, no,

Unknown 20:23
it doesn’t work like that at all. And that’s the thing, because you know, people always ask me, so what if they don’t give me the care that I need so that they can donate organs? Nobody, even check that you’re an organ donor, when you come into the hospital after an accident. This happens after you have been deemed to be brain dead, or you’ve been deemed to not be able to recover from your injuries. So you know, it’s not like, you know, we are walking around looking for people with healthy organs that just got, you know, scraped by a car or just fell down a couple of stairs or things like that.

Unknown 20:55
Yeah, my goodness. So but,

Unknown 20:58
but I do think everybody should be in organ donor, because at the end of the day, when you die, you are going to the grave week perfectly good organs that could save somebody else’s life.

Justin Trosclair 21:09
Would they be enough surgeons if people didn’t like one state said, hey, that’s the new rule. Would there be enough surgeons to do all the transplants necessary that all these people would suddenly be able to have?

Unknown 21:20
Yeah, because not everybody who is an organ donation is going to be able to donate organs, because there are things that will preclude other people from donating organs. For instance, if somebody has a certain type of cancer, then they may not be able to donate an Oregon,

Justin Trosclair 21:37
Oregon, I’m sorry. I don’t I don’t want it. I don’t want it. I don’t want that. Like, I just don’t want that opportunity. Like, oh, there was some cells left.

Unknown 21:46
Exactly. And that’s how it is, you know, so even though everybody should be an organ donor, they had their tests that are done to be able to determine if someone is suitable enough to donate their organs. How soon after someone

Justin Trosclair 21:59
passes that, are you able to still harvest organs.

Unknown 22:03
So they have two different types of all three different types of ways that people donate organs. First is living donor, like where you can donate part of your liver, or you can donate one of your kidneys, or things like that. So that’s like one, and then the second is deceased donor, where you are brain dead. So with brain dead donors, you know, their operation is basically like a regular surgery that you do because they had brain dead, they’ve been deemed to be brain dead by different methods, not just one person comes in system and saves the brain dead. They’ve been deep brain dead by different methods. And so their surgery is basically like any other surgery that you do when you’re harvesting organs. And then they use the third which is donation after cardiac death, which in this instance, the patient is not easy has been deemed not able to survive, the injuries are not able to survive the disease process. And the families approached because the patient is an organ donor or because whatever circumstances that their their families approached, and they decide that they want the patient life support to be withdrawn. So in that instance, they are still alive. So life support will be with drone. And as soon as they die, then the organs can be harvested. But if they don’t dive in, standard, they have to die, certain amount of time to be able to make and that’s in that instance.

Justin Trosclair 23:36
Now notice the word you chose were very deliberate and specific. and dare I say rehearsed? Was that something that you had to take classes are just a lot of rehearsing the talk to patients and families about, like, how to say it correctly, and respectfully and all that?

Unknown 23:54
No, it’s just something that I feel like, you know, any one words can make it very good can put off people to organ donation. And I feel like it’s very important to to be deliberate about the words that you say, because I don’t talk to two organ donor families. It’s a completely separate department. Okay, that takes care of all that. So you know, I would not be the one to approach them and say, well, well, you know, your loved one sake and they’re dying, can we get the old days, you know, things like that.

Unknown 24:26
Just won’t be too much conflict of interest.

Unknown 24:32

Justin Trosclair 24:34
has messed up, Justin. Okay. So let’s take a little serious and answer to however you want to answer it. The reality is, you’ll do a surgery, six months, a year, maybe in a week, they reject the Oregon it doesn’t take reality probably is some people don’t make it off the table. How do you how do you deal with that? And Was that something you had to deal with like early on back in like residency with this general surgery? Did they teach you how to handle that in ways to like cope and all that,

Unknown 25:03
it’s very difficult. And I feel like it’s every position has a certain way of dealing with, you know, death and loss in their own way. But it’s something that I don’t feel you really get taught. It’s something that just comes with experience. It’s just like speaking to families after a death of a loved one. That’s something that comes with experience by watching Susan physicians doing it before you. And then when it’s your turn, to break the bad news and talk to family about it, it just kind of comes together, because you’ve seen it done so many other times. But we all grieve in different ways. And if you, you just have to find a way to read but be able to move on and take care of your other patients that need you. Because, you know, sometimes you lose a patient and right away, you have another patient that needs you to operate on them, or that needs you to be clear minded and to be able to take care of them because they are deteriorating, or they’re getting sicker. And they need you to have a clear mind to be able to take care of them. So it’s it’s one of those things, that’s very difficult, that I wish there was a class that teaches you how to do it, but I know it’s not possible. So you just kind of deal with it your own way. For me, I think it’s my faith in God really just takes, it really helps in this situation. Because I trust God, and I feel like my, my work is my life purpose and my calling. And it’s what I’m supposed to do with this life. And so I don’t take it as my own personal failure or my own personal success when a patient as well. I feel like I’m just doing God’s work. So it’s very difficult, but I find strength in God in difficult times like that. Brilliant.

Justin Trosclair 26:52
Another kind of serious question. In a sense, there’s a probably a machoism, I’m guessing in this field, and you’re a woman minority. pretty rare. There might be a handful of you guys, or gals, I should say, in the nation that probably do this. Do you ever get any like stereotypes? Are you can’t do this, or as people been pretty helpful in that situation? And they’re like, yeah, you can do it, you made it, what are you experiencing?

Unknown 27:16
So in my fellowship, I’m just very lucky that I have amazing attendings that I work with, who are teaching me this craft. And it’s one of those things where, you know, as a black female surgeon, I feel like everywhere you go, you will experience, I guess, people who just don’t think you are the surgeon. So it’s very common practice, because, you know, we go to different hospitals and do organ donation surgeries. And so, in that instance, they don’t know me there. Whereas at my hospital, everybody knows me. So it’s like, Okay, um, the surgical and the transplant surgery fellow, you go to another hospital where people don’t know you. And, you know, most of the time I have a medical student, or I have a resident tool happens to be male or white. And so they direct your questions to that person. And then they had, you know, and that the President has to direct them to me and say, okay, she’s the one in charge. So it’s something that I actually encounter very often.

Justin Trosclair 28:19
Is it kind of like the it’s like, change your mindset with it? Or like, Oh, this will be fun to embarrass this person, once they realize who it is?

Unknown 28:26
No, actually, I, I, it’s kind of uncomfortable when they realize and so I do not want it to be uncomfortable, because these people are going to be working with now. And I don’t want to embarrass them. It’s just, I feel like it’s a it’s one of those things that people don’t realize, and it’s just, they just do they don’t realize it. I don’t know, if I maybe if I was in that situation, if I would behave the same way. Maybe I don’t know. Because you know, when you don’t see people, you know, like females who are surgeons often, right, maybe hospital, you may not even have one. So it’s not something that you just assume, you know,

Justin Trosclair 29:09
yeah. So it’s hard to say whether when your classes probably like 95% white people to begin with, you’re like, Oh, yeah, that’s true. But you find the name tag or something, right?

Unknown 29:20
Well, I have a name tag, but sometimes it’s on my scrubs, or whatever. And, you know, people might not even look at it.

Unknown 29:28
Yeah, yeah. But it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s like, I feel like as you cannot take things like that, personally, it’s an opportunity to educate and for people to realize that growth can be surgeons to, you know, type thing. The engineers do, you know.

Unknown 29:45
So it’s one of those things where I actually even have to say, even throughout all my residency training, I never felt discriminated against because I was black. I was the only black resident categorical resident, my residency program the whole time I was there. But I never felt like I was discriminated against because I was black. There were moments where I felt discriminated against because I’m a girl, but not because I was black. Okay, now, which I guess it’s a double whammy.

Justin Trosclair 30:18
It’s such a rare thing these days, I hope. Maybe in the next five to 10 years, we could have an entire podcast, just people like yourself was like, yeah, there’s just so many, it’s not even a thing anymore.

Unknown 30:30
I actually had a black women in medicines blog series is just I don’t have time now to work on it. But I actually really enjoyed working on it, because it introduced me to, I just reached out to all these women who were black and in medicine, and I wanted to hear what their perspectives were and how they dealt with discrimination and things like that. And I thought it was helpful and would be helpful for college students who are minorities in that, you know, trying to get there. And to see that, you know, these are all little things that can be overcome, don’t let that be something that stops you from pursuing your dream, because challenges like that will always be there. For me, it’s that for other people, it’s other things you always have challenges is just how you deal with them. So

Justin Trosclair 31:17
let’s usually that’s an important thing, like, I can interview you, and then you can interview quote each other, you’re gonna have a different experience, and you able to relate a lot better, the more free to speak your mind. And having fun. Yep, I had that times too. And that’s, that’s a really good thing. Exactly. We’re What do you see you so you’re talking about potentially going back to Zimbabwe? Or maybe that’s a permanent goal, doing kidney and liver stuff? What do you see that happening?

Unknown 31:46
So I’d like to go back to Zimbabwe at some point, right now I have a lot of student loans that I need to pay off. So

Unknown 31:54
I need to get a job.

Unknown 31:56
History, just don’t get

Unknown 31:58
paid much as a fellow.

Unknown 32:00
Right. So once once I am more settled in my carrier, I would like to go back to Zimbabwe, at least work in Zimbabwe or part time.

Justin Trosclair 32:10
Could you do that for like a month? Like?

Unknown 32:12
Yeah, yeah, I would like to work, you know, like, maybe have something with the University of Zimbabwe, and work with their, with that with their medical school, and just work with, you know, the transplant department and build it up. That’s something I’d like to do on top of mission work. mission work is one of my priorities, when I’m done, I’ll have more time to do more mission. So I’m looking back to that.

Justin Trosclair 32:38
I just like I know nothing about like what you’re talking about. But I just thinking it shouldn’t be this difficult. I mean, it probably is hugely difficult to do this. But to say, Hey, I know what I’m doing. Let’s get it set up. I can come here for like, three or four weeks, we can knock out 100 different kidney surgeries or something in a month. And then you can have other people take your place and just have people rotate. And in there, I don’t want to call it like a mission. But it becomes the new Hey, dots, she looking to get back, you can go to Zimbabwe and do these surgeries, potentially for free or discounted rates or something like that.

Unknown 33:10
So I’m interested in seeing how it works. Because I know, I know, my professors, my attendings that I work with now that our training me would be willing to go to Zimbabwe and help me set up a program or build a program that’s already, you know, sort of started. Because I, you know, like programs like the University of Michigan is doing something similar in Ethiopia, where they have built a kidney transplant program there, where they go and they do kidney transplants, and they teach the surgeons they how to do kidney transplants. So it’s something that I would be interested in seeing probably even visiting one of the APR hospitals and seeing how they do things. So we can do something similar. And that’s awesome. I’m so excited.

Justin Trosclair 33:57
I mean, that’s how things things start, I think, you know, is out, you got to have a connection, they don’t just one day go show up and say, hey, let’s build a village in Guana. Know,

why did you pick one and this city and dislocation and everything is the reason?

Unknown 34:11

Justin Trosclair 34:12
Well, let’s, let’s switch gears a little bit. Do you take vacation? Don’t take no vacation, your fellowship? Why this just grind?

Unknown 34:20
I was actually right. Just on vacation.

Unknown 34:25
Yeah, so yeah, we get we get vacation time where you get a week off or whatever, to rejuvenate. It’s very important to do. But yeah, we are actually we are required to take some time off.

Justin Trosclair 34:39
That’s good. What’s your go to the beach?

Unknown 34:42
Going to the mountains have more of a beach girl.

Unknown 34:47
I can sit on the beach for five days and do nothing while but

Justin Trosclair 34:51
yeah, so Nebraska. I don’t think that’s an option. Hmm, now

Unknown 34:56
we have a lake but it’s not even like a lake Lake Lake Michigan. But it’s also

Justin Trosclair 35:02
passes in a crunch. Man, Nebraska. I just don’t know anything about that place. That’s one of those. Those flybys? I mean, I’ve been Oklahoma been a few places, but Nebraska. I don’t even know.

Unknown 35:14
He’s actually pretty nice. I like the area, I think because it’s, you know, it’s Midwest and reminds me of where I grew up in Michigan. So I actually really liked it. But I had never been to Omaha until I came for fellowship.

Justin Trosclair 35:27
Oh, speaking of Do you, where do you Where do you want to work? Are you looking at a big cities stayed in Omaha? Or what’s the plan?

Unknown 35:36
So I really am not geographically limited. I would prefer someplace warm.

Justin Trosclair 35:43
Like Louisiana warm,

Unknown 35:46
like California warm,

Unknown 35:48

Unknown 35:51
But I really am not restricted geographically. I could work anywhere. That’s pretty aware. It’s, it aligns with my beliefs and my goals would be perfect.

Justin Trosclair 36:02
You when you apply, they’re going to be hospitals that are already set up. And they’re the ones that hire or do they have their their jobs available and like hospitals that are wanting to do this, and you would be the first one

Unknown 36:14
now. So just because I’m coming out of fell, I’m just coming out of fellowship, I don’t have the experience to be able to start a program. It will be based on hospitals that already established because I want to do academic surgery. So I want to work in a hospital setting where I can teach and do research and things like that,

Justin Trosclair 36:34
rather than private practice. So Houston could be a real opportunity then

Unknown 36:37
it could be

Justin Trosclair 36:40
got a lot of hospitals on their cancer for sure. I don’t know their transplant known but they do

Unknown 36:45

Unknown 36:46
transplant. I mean, my daughter the other day was just talking to he was like Mom, do you know what the mecca of Zimbabwe is where the most simple wins in America. And they told me I knew what it was. Well, I wasn’t really sure but I tell us does like Dallas. And she’s like, All right, I’m back. I’m back. Yep.

Justin Trosclair 37:04
Okay. What was the answer was a Dallas Dallas man. the punch line got lost in the static of Skype. So this is the mecca of Zimbabweans black. She

Unknown 37:14
says, I’m

Justin Trosclair 37:17
looking at her and bracing, saying, hey, that’s what I am. That’s who I am. Let’s go get the culture.

Unknown 37:24
Yep, like Dallas, Texas. It is. That’s where all the Zimbabweans are.

Justin Trosclair 37:28
Hey, Is there gonna be some food there then? Like?

Unknown 37:31
I will. I hope so. Yeah, I actually seen as in Baldwin restaurant, when you know, when I was in New York, I always used to go to European restaurants or South African restaurants but I’d never seen it like it. Zimbabwean restaurant.

Justin Trosclair 37:44
Tolkien once in Denver, and that was that was it was an interesting that was a unique experience. Did you eat with your hands? Yeah, the whole big piece of bread. And then they just got like the curry stuff on the brain. And then you just peel it.

Yeah. That was great. I was I was surprised it was piano forward.

Unknown 38:01
The smell was strong. You got to get in. You get in there. You’re like, Oh, yeah, you got a lot of Tex Mex anymore.

Justin Trosclair 38:08
Alright, last couple questions. Okay. home life balance, keeping your spouse happy, keeping your kids happy. Any any hints force.

Unknown 38:16
So it’s really hard, I cannot say that I actually have balance. Because you know, when I’m home, and I’m, let’s say I’m on a break, and I have a week off. That’s all I do is pretty much home life. But during when I’m working, you know, I have a lot of reading to do still and a lot of paper writing and things like that. So but my family’s very, very, very understanding. I have like the best spouse in the world. He basically just takes care of me and he’s okay with my crazy our schedules. And he’s okay with me studying and doing all sorts of things. He’s he doesn’t need to have me around. Basically, they are very dependent.

Unknown 38:55
Cook, they eat, they do whatever. And they’ll ask me once in a while what I want, often, but other than that they they do their own thing. So I’m very lucky in that aspect. So they let me just be me. Because it’s it can be difficult when you’re working a lot. And you sometimes don’t come home, because you’re within 48 hours straight, and things like that. But when you have a supportive spouse and kids who understand it’s, it’s like heaven.

Justin Trosclair 39:23
Yeah. One more year, you’ll be free and clear.

No more balance.

Unknown 39:29
A little more balance.

Justin Trosclair 39:30
You got this. All right, favorite last question. favorite books, blog, phone apps, things that you love that you think other people should definitely check out? So favorite books

Unknown 39:41
I read quite a lot. And like the Why don’t like all time favorite books? Is it sort of medical, but it’s cutting for stone? Yeah. So cutting for stone is one of my favorite books. I think it’s like a very well written book. Recently, I read a book by Australian author who’s a female transplant surgeon and is called How to do a liver transplant. It’s actually a really good book, it goes about I think she has she and her husband have four or five kids. And it just talks about how she’s managed to balance being a surgeon, a mom, my wife, and her she trained educators to co lead for transplant fellowship before going back to Australia, and just basically how she got interested in transplant surgery and things like that. So I thought that was a really good book, and favorite app. I do like Instagram. Yeah.

Justin Trosclair 40:39
I saw you had a new haircut looks great, by the way.

Unknown 40:42
Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Unknown 40:44
That’s pretty much the only app I use. I’m really on Facebook. And right now I’m not even on Facebook. And I think that’s pretty much that

Justin Trosclair 40:54
any medical apps, I don’t think I’ve ever asked that question, any kind of medical advice you’d like yeah, go to this sometimes?

Unknown 40:59
Well, on my phone, I have the journal transplant, I have the American Journal transplantation. And so that’s the one that I got to like everyday look to see what articles they have or what good papers they have. And I read from there. But other than that, and no, I don’t have any apps on my phone. Other than you know, like the medical our electronic medical record that you can have the app on the phone. I have them on my phone, because then I can look at lab results and vitals and things like that. On the go. Yeah, that Yeah, no, I’m very, I’m not very techie.

Justin Trosclair 41:38
You have time to be techie sounds like to

Unknown 41:42
All right, well, how can people get in touch with you if they wanted to? My email is Dr. Marty Marty, Dr. Ma ti na vi@gmail.com. So whatever questions you have for in one was pre med, for anybody interested in health care for anybody who does it is interested in following their dreams? And they think it’s not possible. You can email me there. And I am on Instagram, as Dr. praise your 624. And you can reach me there too. Fantastic.

Unknown 42:15
Oh, you’re on Twitter, too. I am on Twitter. What do you What’s your what’s your handle?

Unknown 42:18
I believe it’s Dr. Much commodity. There we go.

Justin Trosclair 42:22
Yep. Thank you so much for your time today.

Unknown 42:25
Absolutely. It was great. Thank you for having me.

Justin Trosclair 42:30
I really want to take a second and say thank you so much for listening to the show. If you haven’t left a review on your favorite listening app, please go ahead and do that. One thing I’ve realized, I’m putting out a lot of links all over Instagram, Facebook, this podcast itself. And if you ever change the link, or shut the website down, all those links are now gone and did. So I just want you to know if you’re listening to some of these episodes, and I mentioned the link and it’s going to head on over to a doctor’s perspective. net, you’re probably going to find that the you’re looking for on the top menu, search around and I’m sure you’ll find it all the books that you find there. Acupuncture, broken, no needles, the free chapters, you can download the 360 degree health from exercises stretches financial health, what is Chiropractic and the free chapters for their t shirts, resources. And we even have a financial support site now. It’s just a doctor’s perspective. NET slash support. There’s one time support, there’s monthly support, go ahead over there and check it out. Something that I’m offering right now, with the needless acupuncture. If you buy the book, you also get the electric acupuncture pin for free as a bonus, and that electric acupuncture pin helps you not only stimulate the points stronger, that helps you locate the points as well. So that’s a huge plus. And then with the today’s choices tomorrow’s health book, I’m offering a bonus of a one hour one on one coaching session to go along with the purchase of that book. Actually, there’s three different bonus packages if you had to a doctor’s perspective dot net slash no needles as getting close to the end of the year. Are y’all ready for the 2018 Top 10 I mean it’s too early right now but it’s going to be here before you know it that will be available for download later on just like the 2017 is now you just heard a great guest implement one thing make your practice and personal life as best as it can be.

We just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen and integrate with some of these guests have said by all means please share across your social media rather review and if you go to the show notes page, you can find all the references for today’s guest. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

About the Author
Dr. Justin Trosclair, D.C., an expert in Chiropractic Care, has been focusing on back and neck pain relief for over 12 years and has delivered treatment to more than 6000 patients. With advanced training in treating disc derangement conditions, you can count on him to keep up to date with the latest research in physical medicine for spinal pain. He has 5 years of hospital experience in China, is currently working in Germany, and had a private practice in Colorado for 6 years. Dr. Trosclair hosts a doctor to doctor interview podcast called ‘A Doctor’s Perspective‘ with over 220 episodes. During his free time he wrote 3 books. Today’s Choices Tomorrow’s Health (rebooting health in 4 categories), a Do-It- Yourself acupressure book for 40 common conditions called Needle-less Acupuncture, and a step by step guide to look like a local for Chinese dinner culture called Chinese Business Dinner Culture. If you have kids, you may be interested in his 6 series tri-lingual animal coloring book series (english, spanish and chinese).