Dr. Allen Sprinkle, DDS talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor's Perspective Podcast.…
Facial Plastic Surgery trends and how to address them, difference between outcome ideals, symmetry, facial flow, what’s a modified upper lip and ways to handle malicious reviews. Dr. Ben Talei MD is a well-rounded double fellowship trained surgeon.
As a past carpenter, private inspector (PI), ski instructor, car and boat racer, and piano player Dr. Talei brings a well-rounded life viewpoint to his practice. He gives a fun story discussing why he went to facial surgery instead of orthopedics and then why plastic surgery instead of cancer removals and the like.
What started as an appreciation for the facial surgery procedures and technicality blossomed into a personal challenge to always be creative and expect the best out of yourself. As a bonus, not only does he love his job, but the patients are happy and he gets to do a passion of his, teach.
Dr. Talei hated telling patients they have cancer and may pass away, now with his pediatrics fellowship, he still can remove cancer but these are not life threatening.
Prematurely confident: what are the positives and negatives of such an attitude?
What role does surgical trends and “societal norms of beauty” play in doing rhinoplasty and other facial cosmetic surgeries?
MACS plication lift, are they outdated and why is tying in the fat and muscle considered a more natural look (deep plane facelift)? When talking about trends that are wrong versus trends that are pioneering, how does the doctor tell them apart?
What type of politics are involved in getting revolutionary surgical techniques published?
What are some of the reasons a surgeon may continue to do a seemingly outdated procedure instead of doing what is the latest and greatest?
Modified Upper Lip procedure: He specializes in this procedure. Listen to learn more about it and why someone would have this done.
Why would you avoid filler in your lip and choose the modified upper lip procedure? A button and suspenders type of lift: pull up on the straps and get more accent on the cupids bow and you get a sexy upturn of the lip showcasing teeth when you smile.
Ideals vs Symmetry vs Flow: you can’t always get what you want. Unrealistic goals and body dysmorphia, how do you screen for these people.? Is symmetry all that its shaped up to be?
Can Dr Talei make you look like you did 20 years ago or fix a nose job that you weren’t happy with?
What happens if you don’t pick up on a body dysmorphic person?
How to handle bad reviews and trolls? Can you sue someone for defamation based on aggressive distribution of false reviews?
Near the end he shares a story about how one of his surgeries changed someone’s life, grab a tissue.
Dr. Ben Talei graduated from UCLA, UC San Diego School of Medicine, Residency at Columbia University in head and neck surgery, and did two separate fellowships in Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, but also specializes in vascular birthmarks and congenital anomalies (pediatrics).
Advanced Lifting Techniques. Modified Upper Lip
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/90 here you can also find links to things mentioned and a full transcript of the show.
Justin Trosclair 0:02
Episode 90 improvements versus restoration in Facial Plastic Surgery. I’m your host Dr. Justin trust Claire and so they were Dr. Ben Holly perspective.
Join 2017 podcast Awards Nominated host Dr. Justin Foursquare as he gets a rare to see him look into the specialties, all types of doctors and guess plus marketing, travel tips, struggles, goals and relationship advice. Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.
Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in again. I had the baby September 6 22
inches, about eight pounds, or name’s Ruby unseen. And like appreciation, she is like growth, whether it’s the flowers, whether it’s your business, things like that, just like the appreciation of growth tell you what being a dad is pretty cool. It’s a living up to the hype that everyone says when she looks at you and smiles and feels like she recognizes your face or your voice. That’s a great feeling. So just wanted to share the good news on with the show. Hey, you know two weeks ago, we had a plastic surgeon on and you know, his focus mostly was on hair restoration rhinoplasty and things. This guy, we got a different take on it. One is really well rounded everything from a private eye to a pass ski instructor and racing. And he’s going to talk about how he chose to do plastic surgery when he started out doing more like cancer removal. It’s a kind of a powerful story and speaks to his character. I think when you talk about symmetry versus I do outcomes and facial flow was the most important. How does he handle that and how does he handle body dysmorphic people. He has a procedure that he does that he’s kind of perfect to call the modified upper lip. He said something like you pull up on the straps you get more accent on the cupid’s bow and you get a sexy upturn of the lip showcasing your teeth when you smile. I was like All right, go to Instagram. You can see what he’s talking about. And we discuss a little bit about how to handle fake reviews. People who are just out to get you and what do you do about it? Can you do the bottom? Stay tuned to the end for a little bit of the ads. Show Notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective, net slash nine zero. Let’s go hashtag behind the curtain
live from China and Beverly Hills. today. We have an amazing doctor on he graduated from UCLA UC San Diego School of Medicine. He did his residency at Columbia University in the head and neck surgery. And he did two separate fellowships for Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. And he also specializes in vascular birthmarks, it congenital anomalies are mostly pediatrics. Welcome to the show, Dr. Ben
Tally. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
Justin Trosclair 2:40
Well, I was reading your profile. It is exhaustive. You know, as a chiropractor, we’re like we’ve trained, but then when you start seeing surgeons and fellowships and residency is all of a sudden you like, Yeah, but not as much as you guys. Y’all are. Just an amazing bunch of people have been dedicated, so much yours to the actual craft of what you do. And it just the pleasure to talk to you have you on the show. One way I like to always started off as you could have done a lot of things in life, especially even if you’re going to go Doctor, how did you end up picking Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery as your go to all the way to fellowship?
Yeah, it’s a complex path. It saved my life. I knew from a young age, I wanted to be a doctor, I was kind of, you know, lucky in that way where when I was about six years old, five years old, my pediatrician pull the wax out of my ear, and excited me and I wanted to be a doctor from that point. They inspired me going through high school, I couldn’t decide if I want to be a teacher or a doctor. So
as time went on, I realized, well, if I am a teacher, I can’t be a doctor. But if I’m a doctor, I can be a teacher. So I decided to go that route. And, you know, once I got into med school, again, having conflict about what I wanted to do, you know, I had, in my mind, I had envisioned myself as some glorious heart surgeon or a neurosurgeon so you know, something that is truly glorified at a young age for us. And eventually, I kind of narrowed it down to two things that were just more fun for me, which was I wanted to do how to neck surgery, which is having that cancer or I wanted to do orthopedics. And I grew up doing orthopedics pretty much like I was doing carpentry my whole life, which is very heavily related to orthopedics. And so I felt as though in a way, I already had a big understanding of parts of that. And I wanted to learn something completely different and a little more delicate or intricate, even though I loved orthopedics. And so I went towards had neck surgery. And this is you know, after my time as a private investigator, it was like a piano teacher, I did a bunch of stuff in the meanwhile, we’re figuring this stuff out. Once I got the head neck surgery, I loved it. And we would do cancer extra patients, meaning we would take out the cancers and then we will reconstruct them. So part of it was facial reconstructive surgery, the issue I came to face around my third year of residency was that I had to tell patients, they had cancer. And that really sucked, I would sit there and I’m a very,
I’m a very, I’d say easy person to project upon. So as soon as someone starts to feel any kind of emotion, I feel it almost as quickly as they do. Sometimes before they know they’re going to cry, I would start crying. And I you know, I’d go through this a couple times a day telling people they have cancer. And it was very, very rough for me that year. Towards the end of that year, I realized you know what, I might want to save people’s lives. And it’s a very noble thing to you. And it’s great, but it is taking a toll on me it was just beating me into the ground. And I really did have a huge appreciation for the reconstructive part,
the surgeries, and I started to focus on that more. And that led me into cosmetics where I would, you know, the the guys who did cosmetics and also did reconstruction. And once I saw the cosmetic surgeries, I got an even greater appreciation for it. So I’m very tactile person, very technical person. And I really love trying to do things well and making things look nice and becoming, as I say, as good as I can as creative as I can be with any kind of project you put me in front of. And I saw these surgeries as not just a way to make patients happy, but a way to make me happy. And that’s how this really I’d say evolved over time for me is that I’ve come more and more to love the work. And coincidentally, I’m lucky enough that I get to make patients happy at the same time. And at the simultaneous I’m also able to teach so all these things I was in love with throughout the years kind of came together into the job I have now. And to put the icing on the cake, I still get to do the cancer surgeries, because I did that separate fellowship in pediatric plastics and pediatric vascular birthmarks. So I get a still take out tumors. But these are not tumors that kill people. These are tumors that grow slowly the vascular anomalies like big hypertrophic port wine stains and venous malformation, lymphatic malformations. So I really got my dream job where I get to do everything I wanted. It’s It’s It’s the ideal of everything for me.
Justin Trosclair 7:34
When you’re finished, your residency is just doing say head neck surgeries, do you feel like confident that your technique would leave somebody still looking pretty good? Or do you feel like you would need to, you would want to go to somebody potentially, that has that extra facial plastic so that they don’t have like this massive scars after you know, two or something?
Yeah, so I myself was always, I’d say in the surgical world, I was prematurely content for that. But at the same time, I was always doubting myself. So I knew better than to think that I was good at a young age. And that’s why before taking patients on on my own, I went and I finished my training and it to two fellowships after men traveled for for the entire residency, I was actually take vacations and for the vacations, you know, you take about four weeks a year. And I would go travel to different surgeons across the country and learn from them. So when I graduated, I had a bigger breadth of experience than most other people in my position, which made it easier for me when I graduated to feel comfortable operating on people on my own. With the reconstructive part, you know, I felt very comfortable early on, because a lot of it is it’s very fancy patchwork, it’s you know, there’s a there’s a craft to it, that’s difficult to learn. But once you learn it, you can safely implement it. Whereas I’d say when they’re doing something as trivial sounding as a nose job, that’s something where you really, really have to hone your expertise over years and years and years to get better and better because there’s so many different ways to do it. You know, reconstructive surgery didn’t seem that way. To me, there were kind of a limited number of ways of doing things unless you are really going to change the surgery and you know, develop something new.
Justin Trosclair 9:24
We’re not looking at these before and afters even for like the rhinoplasty, I just look at it like you have to know so many different body faces that shapes, sizes, what’s wrong with it and your opinion as the patient versus what’s my opinion as the doctor and making sure it looks good, because that’s part of the reason why they’re there is is maybe not always cosmetic, but you know, I can’t breathe. But when it is cosmetic, it’s your job to sort of say this is what the standard is that looks good. And do you have to like keep up with the trends? As far as we were talking, I had a time about what a modified upper lip procedure is. And we’re going to talk about that versus like a filler for the lips. Do you have to somehow keep up with what is trendy?
And in a way Yes. The you know,
it’s a it’s a it’s a major pitfall for people that just completely embrace anything that’s trendy, without, I’d say doing their due diligence and allowing things to be tested and tried over and over again. However, trends help evolve the practice of medicine overall. So you can look at it in a positive way in a negative way. Okay, you have people who come out a little over ambitious, come up with a new procedures say it’s the best thing ever. And it’s a million times better than everything else. But without having proven it. They just say it. Those are very dangerous positions to jump into. However, I’d say if things are changing for the better. And that’s a trend, you better jump on that wagon because someone else saw something you didn’t see. And we need to go learn from that person. So there’s the you know, the world face lifting world a facelift thing has been kept in the dark ages for years people have been doing this mass glycation facelift, which are skin pulled muscle tightening facelifts, which I would not say are terrible by any means at all. But for the most part, if you look at it on a national or international scale, it’s a very limited surgery when you’re looking at insight or logic. There are people who get very, very good semester vacation lip, but more often than not, it is an antiquated procedure. It’s very rare that you find somebody who does an amazing job, like, you know, Dan Baker in New Yorker, you know, probably a dozen other people I can list. Whereas someone, you know, came out and said, you guys, you’re you’re operating in the wrong plane, you need to go a little bit deeper. And it’s not dangerous, like you think, you know, you just have to learn how to do it properly, and it’s safe. And there’s a guy named Sam Hamra and Texas who really popularized that this became a very, very slow trend, it took probably about 1015 years for it to gain any kind of popularity. But now that it’s been proven by it’s a couple of pioneers in the field who are very successful at what they did. The new trend is Okay, everybody, let’s start going towards the plan face lifting because if we’re not doing the plane facelift thing we’re not doing we’re not giving patients adequate treatment. And this is something that is very conflicting, it’s a in plastic surgery versus other forms of medicine, and internal medicine and new blood pressure medicine comes out. And it definitively has less side effects and greater efficacy than the medication prior to it. Nobody’s gonna sit there prescribing the old medicine, everybody came out and said here, you got this new medicine, it works better, here’s less risk, don’t be stupid, you got to use it to you, you owe that to your patient, to do the best you possibly can. Not the best you were taught the best you possibly can. And big it is and plastic surgery on for actually doesn’t follow that trend out of either lack of insight or out of inconvenience. It is not convenient for somebody to abandon their practice and learn something new sometimes because they have to go watch it be done 50 times before it’s safe. And so financially, it makes no sense, practically for running their practice that makes no sense. So instead of adapting, and changing, a lot of these plastic surgeons will stick to the old ways. And this is unfortunately the way of 95% of the world. 95% that and that’s a pretty it’s a accurate statistic. So that’s what’s interesting is you got you and I’m guessing when you’re talking efficacy, and we don’t if you’re gonna have like a facelift, you want it to look natural for 20 years, 30 years, could we all see those celebrities who were like, ooh, who would you go to? Because I don’t want to go see that person. Because it looks so bad. Is that one of the ways that you can fix it by doing that deeper, the deeper level? Yeah, I mean that that’s that’s one of the ways that the plane facelift thing is a little bit more advanced, but it makes it easier to get a long term result with less scarring, it makes it easier It doesn’t mean somebody can’t do a smash location, which is the older type and and get it done properly. You know they can but you’re automatically doing something more logical. The prior technique of smash vacation is based upon the assumption that your skin is sagging over time. I’ve never met a single person in my life who only sags in their skin and then I’ll and their fat in their muscles all stay in the right position doesn’t make any sense. Everything sex the the skin size, the fat sags the muscle sex. So why would you go only lift the skin? Or only lift the skin and tighten the muscle? logically, somebody explains this to you and say, Well, yeah, that makes sense. Everything dripped, go get everything back up.
Justin Trosclair 14:49
I don’t do it.
Yeah. Why? Why would you just go and take a third of what drip? Take everything in here? And and the problem is it just people don’t have the ability to do it. And so when they try to do it, they can cause damage without being trained properly. And then they spread rumors, they spread myths that, you know, it’s a dangerous thing. Don’t do it. It’s dangerous. I tried it. I know don’t do it.
And realistically yet, they did try it and they didn’t mess it up. But it’s because they jumped into it without being trained properly. Won’t then yeah, then that’s the way of surgery and others. For my Croatia, there was one I won’t name names on the on the techniques. But there was one guy who popularized the certain type of your surgery and published it and all journals, there was another guy who came out and had a better year surgery wanted to publish it and all journals. And the the first guy wouldn’t allow the the publications to get out of the second guy. And so everybody in the world was stuck thinking, Okay, this is the best year surgery because we haven’t heard about the other one. Then all of a sudden the internet came out.
Yeah, you can’t keep things suppressed anyone, and people have now adapted to the other way. So there’s a lot of reasons people don’t evolve in plastic surgery. I know a lot of them was just being complacent. And a lot of them is lack of having the right education from either not training with the correct people I say are the best people are who you, you know, who are the best people versus what you believe to be the best people. And then other is not getting that information out there.
Justin Trosclair 16:19
We don’t like to think that there’s politics and all this kind of stuff in our research. But there’s definitely that going on. And like you said, with the internet, at least you can you still have a voice out there.
Exactly. And things have rapidly rapidly expanded since the advent of the Internet. And since the advent of medical journals on the internet, where people are just you know, you don’t have just PubMed anymore, you have a million resources now, so people are learning. And even if the highest period you journal is suppressing some information, because the editor of that journal does not want it publicize, you can still get the information from another journal now there are plenty of them.
Justin Trosclair 16:55
Yeah, okay, let’s chat about this modified upper lip procedure. I’m not really sure what it is. But I saw some of the results. I was like, that looks pretty good. Like, why would somebody get it? What are they looking for? Is it purely cosmetic? Or is it that they have like actual procedure that is necessary for?
Yes, sir. So there, there is some medical necessity to lift lift is not as common as the cosmetic need for it. And that’s the main thing is what dentists would call lip and competence where the upper lip is kind of flabby long and really can’t contract very well. So when somebody talks, it’s like they just have like a big curtain kind of hanging over their mouth. And it’s just flopping back and forth. So that’s it’s no good. Yeah, no, no, it’s not good in this the only good treatment for living competence. But if you do it incorrectly can actually cause live in competence. So that’s, you know, something to be careful. The lip lift, in general is a procedure that was developed, I’d say popularized, somewhat about 1520 years ago, first discussed maybe 25 years ago, the whole idea is that, just like the face droops, the lip can kind of LinkedIn and drip over time to, or people just had to have longer upper lips, and you can’t see their teeth. And if you can’t see someone theater inside their mouth, they kind of lose sexuality and sensuality. And they also tend to look a little bit older. Though, the lift lift is a great procedure for that. However, for years, people were very hesitant to do it on anybody but a, you know, a 70 year old white woman, because they believe that it would cause and not just they believed it would cause a lot of scarring across the naval base or widening of the nose. So very rarely would it be done on somebody younger, somewhat of a different color. Because of the potential for scarring. What I did there reason I would even call it a modified upper lip lip is to try to get people to understand there’s a very, and this is mainly doctors, that there is a very simple way to just change the procedure and get it done properly. So I called it the modified upper lip lip. And there’s no other reason I did it then then for that. And the way that I do it now is that I use the classic incision the way it was taught, I made a couple of you know, changes on how I tell her on each patient. But the main thing that I changed was releasing all the tension on the skin, and then not trying to suit your skin, the skin I suture and a very different way because this is a procedure that unlike many other procedures, it’s very unforgiving, to emphasize tutoring. So either way, I’ve modified it to the point where I can perform it on people in their early 20s, I can pass them on and on 80 year olds, and the application has now brought in so I can perform it on the patients who are older and have a senile upper lip or a longer aged upper lip. I can perform it on patients who have had silicone injections in the past and silicone causes horrendous expansion of the lip and people get bigger, fatter, nonfunctional upper lips. And I can reduce that. I also use it on younger patients who keep trying to fill their lips with filler and are not getting the right result. So you get all the filter out of their lip. And instead of trying to get the sexiness of the mouth that by filling that are volumizing it actually just shorten the lip and make it look more delicate and more accepted. So it’s got a wide variety of applications now.
Justin Trosclair 20:19
It gives it like a perk Enos to it.
Yeah, it does it perks. Yeah, that’s exactly what it does. It’s a belt and suspenders kind of thing. So the, you pull it up on its straps, and which are the social columns, and you end up getting more accent along the cupid’s bow, more of an upturn of the lip, which makes it sexier and you get to see into the mouth more. And it’s a really, really, it’s a really nice procedure to do. And it’s very high yield, when you look at it in terms of how much you can change the face around. So I love doing it for this stuff. And people are becoming more educated about it. And it’s gaining popularity, and doctors are kind of coming around to realize and make it do it slightly differently. do so without harming people.
And I think it’s great, because it’s also just sending a message, not necessarily that people need to get this surgery, but it tells people you can’t fix everything with fillers. So it’s just something to be aware of, because everybody keeps overdoing it. And this is telling you there’s a cut off point because other people doing the surgery, so maybe you shouldn’t be doing fillers the whole time. And although I don’t think the surgeries for you just understand that, you know, you don’t want to make the lip bigger, bigger, bigger.
Justin Trosclair 21:31
When did you learn? Or did you always have a knack for, I guess, cemetery busy season see so many different styles of faces. And one person might think this is what’s beautiful, and another person thinks this is beautiful. Yeah, do patients just like bringing a picture of somebody that they think is attractive? Like, can I look like this? And then you have to make a decision? Yes or no or
Yeah, flows? They do it is. So there’s the discussion of ideals of what they want. And there’s the discussion of symmetry, the ideals, people bring in these pictures. And, you know, we look at them together. And they’re great for discussion saying, This is what I want. And I can tell them well, I can achieve something like this, or I can’t, because so and so because your nose is thick skin. Because, you know, for a million reasons, I can explain to them clearly why I can’t get what they want, or I can get what they want. That’s why those pictures are good. It also helps weed out people who might clearly have an unrealistic vision of what they can achieve. And you might not want to touch those people because you’re not gonna make them happy. And that could be people with body dysmorphia, meaning they see things that nobody else sees, where I could be people that just have unrealistic goals and plastic surgery is only going to lead them down a path of looking horrible, because they’re going to keep trying to get things that they shouldn’t achieve for their face time. And, you know, I do a lot of car analogies in general, but, you know, I tend to tell people things in terms of cars, they say, you know, you can bring in a fear Oh, I don’t know if you know what that is. Yeah, I can actually address it up and make it look like a Lamborghini. Okay, it works. But you can’t bring in a pharaoh and try to make it look like a Cadillac Escalades, it’s a completely different body structure. Yeah, so these are tiny little cars, you can’t make him that he’s big cars doesn’t happen. Either way. That’s what that’s useful for the the approach for symmetry I look at very differently, I’d say than most people. So when you look at someone’s face, and you analyze the face, to see what’s beautiful, a lot of people try to attribute beauty to symmetry. Indeed, or, in fact, if you look at, you know, 99.99999% of the world, I’d say almost everybody, but one person out of 6 billion, nobody’s going to be symmetric. And we’re not supposed to be symmetric. And we know that just, you know, very basic understanding, if you look at people being right handed and left handed, that’s your that’s the way your brain is wired, that’s where everybody’s brand, what are the chances that you’re going to have a right and left face that are exactly the same, and the way they fund general move or act or anything, it’s nearly impossible. So I tend to think that people chase symmetry a little bit too much, they don’t realize that a lot of our beauty and I’d say pleasant appearance comes from the fact that we have mild asymmetries. Major asymmetries, nobody likes major symmetry, similarly looks weird to us. So I like to have mildly cemeteries in the face. And when it bothers people, I tell them, don’t chase it too much, I can maybe give you a little bit of improvement, but you’re chasing the wrong thing, it’s never going to make you look better. It just might make you obsess over it less. That’s about it. Yeah, and there’s you know, and I try to show them, here’s your facial cemetery. And here’s your facial flow. And the flow is just like I said, you have dominance of the face, right and left, the flow will pull towards whatever it is dominant side of the face. So somebody might have their forehead in the center, and their know starts appearing to the right, and as you come down, you see their lips go to the right, and their chin goes to the right even more. And that’s your facial flow.
It makes you a symmetric, but it’s, it’s natural, and it follows the dominance of your face, not really what side you sleep on, but what side is stronger. So everybody has a normal facial flow. And you have to make sure that whatever surgery you do, you realize that flow before trying to make things symmetric or fix things that aren’t supposed to be fixed.
Justin Trosclair 25:21
That’s a really good point to ask if someone’s, you know, doesn’t use you and just go somewhere else. But those types of thought patterns, like the flow is important. When someone has a I don’t know what you guys call it like medically, but they move around face or boxy face or like a flat face. And they might have a flat face, but they want to round face feature. And you’re like, Look, you don’t even match. here’s, here’s 20 people that are popular with your same style of face, pick something out of this, like you can’t go on this other realm, because you’re never going to be you never gonna look like that.
Yeah, yeah. And so so that’s one way that we approach it. The other is with age. So people come in, and they say, Well, this is what it looked like 20 years ago, 30 years good. This is what I want to look like. And I try to explore had a nose job done before. And the second nose job, you know, I had messed it up. And I wanted to go back to how it was before I did any kind of nose job. And I tried to explain to people, listen, I’m not that creative. I don’t have you know, I’m not a genius, I don’t have these abilities. I’m a very simple person. And my satisfaction rate amongst my patients is very, very high. And we keep things simple. I don’t try to achieve the unachievable. And what this means is, I’m not going to set you back 20 years ago to how you look, because it’s multi variable, there’s so many different things that cause you to change over time. Right now I’m a simple person, all I can do is look at you and say, well, you lost some volume here, I can replace it, you drift over here, I can lift the backup, you know, very, very simple things. I can’t take into this multifactorial analysis and try to figure out how to restore everything to how it was it’s not physically possible, I don’t have the abilities of God or to reverse what’s happened over time, can’t do these things, putting your nose back to how it was I cannot restore that structure. Because it’s been surgically altered. All I can do is look at where it is now and improve it from where it is now. I cannot restore it to what it was. And this is a conversation I have all the time. And almost everybody is receptive and understanding and they go with them. They go into the surgery with very realistic expectations
Justin Trosclair 27:21
with the body dysmorphic types. Do you recognize that the student advisors or how do you handle it,
I’ve been burned. I’ve been burned a couple times. I’ve had several, I’d say probably three or four, probably three or four body dysmorphic patients that I did not pick up their dysmorphic beforehand. And I did the surgery for them. And I discussed everything as I was supposed to discuss it. And I as far as surgical outcomes go, everything went as expected, maybe not perfect. But as expected and as discussed. But the patients were dysmorphic and kept picking up things and picking things. And eventually they they started to dislike me because I couldn’t achieve what they wanted. And it went from a very gentle dislike, to a very strong dislike and blaming me for everything that’s ever happened to them. And this is real, and it’s real. And the same story, let’s say, let’s say that that same page is going to listen to your podcast. Okay, they’re going to be listening to this and say that, you know, I can’t say bad words. And I would that sounds so like messed me up, blah, blah, you know, they will never understand what everybody else in the world see one stars everywhere is that you could possibly be ranked ruining your records. Yeah, I have this. That’s exactly who they are.
It’s just two people. And there’s, there’s one who I can’t go into the details. But no, I mean, no, I don’t know if we don’t know, but was an extortion artists that was extorting me very gently at first and I got more aggressive, I want to resist it started making up fake names, you know, so these things in the world of plastic surgery, and they happen. And I’d say, you know, the complaints that they have, that they put on line are completely completely unrelated to anything with it. So, you know, but this is, this is kind of what you buy, as a surgeon, when you get into plastic surgery, you if you want to be popular, and you want to do the things you kind of make yourself vulnerable to, to these kind of patients, not something that internists deal with, you know, they didn’t ask for that. So it’s something that I kind of, you know, I don’t want in my life, but I yeah, it’s a consequence of what I’ve chosen.
Justin Trosclair 29:37
I’m in the process of getting a few guests that specialize or do marketing for like Google reviews and do that type of stuff. Like Okay, that’s me one of my questions, what do you do when you have a bad review? That’s just not warranted? You know, a classic one for a lot of doctors is they didn’t want to pay because their insurance was like you had a $30 copay. Actually, you had a $2,000 deductible. Somebody owes me some money. And then they got all mad because you’re trying to collect for services that they already agreed to. And I’ve already done. So yeah, always. We get it all in a different way. That’s for sure.
Yeah, I mean, the problem with online reviews now this is a huge problem is, is it’s the Wild West, people can destroy accountability, not no accountability, and they can destroy people, they can destroy doctors, and small businesses, lawyers, destroy them. And, you know, this is millions last professional in there. And there. It’s a long term career millions, even. And it really is, and there’s zero accountability. And because there are unregistered names, you can’t trace it back, even if you wanted to try to sue someone, let’s say for defamation, and that’s a dirty place to go. If you try to sue somebody who are already against you, they’re going to go nuts and start making more of us and more reviews and get their friends through more reviews. And it is it is the exact opposite sort of positive media, you get positive media on TV, it gives you credibility. Even if you did nothing. And these kind of reviews, even if you did nothing, they can destroy you. And it’s not just doctors, it’s small businesses, you could have somebody who wants to come after you had somebody go after my cousin was a private investigator that I used to work with. And he didn’t like the the fact that he couldn’t get him results within two days. And he started extorting him and said, if you don’t give me my money back and do the work that that I want you to do, but I’m gonna get my friends and I will go right 20 reviews about you. And they did get no choice. But to beg the guy please, please, please take the battle. Do whatever you want these please, please. And the guy fortunately enough, was just angry. He wasn’t full, fully crazy. He was just angry. And he
Justin Trosclair 31:49
looked too smart. I mean, that’s, that’s pretty crafty. I mean, I hope that doesn’t catch on.
Yeah, I mean, that’s what happens. I mean, I’ve had people review me and then apologized. And then they forgot the fake account that they use, and they couldn’t go take it down. And Google refused to take it down. This thing, it’s crazy. It was just like, you know, this is this is now the world of the internet until some regulatory body comes in and says, oh, wow, this has nothing to do with first amendment rights, we actually need to regulate this. Yeah. You know, that’s the fear right now. Nobody wants to come in terms of a senator, or anybody’s going to pass a law to say that they want to restrict first amendment rights. Because it’s a horrendous thing to say. But realistically, it’s that’s not the case, the cases that they just want, you know, if they get things registered, there will be accountability. At this point, you can make up any name you want.
Justin Trosclair 32:42
Yeah. And it’s like, Who’s the burden on right? Because the burden becomes either on the business or on the client. And oh, my goodness, can imagine the amount of money I’m surprised Laura’s wouldn’t be excited about it, because it seems like a lot of cases to bring up and litigation and all that. But switching gears I know that’s that feels like a little sore topic for you a little bit. You’re in Beverly Hills. I mean, you probably have like one of the nicest offices, I’m assuming. You also I’m guessing market? And if you do, I’m curious, what have you done that’s in the past, that’s, that’s tends to work well, to get more clients than know who you are.
Yeah, so I’m pretty weak on marketing.
I don’t spend much I have any, when I started, I tried a couple little things just to get my name out there. But for probably the past three, four years, I really haven’t done much. So I myself, I pay a little bit to Yelp, they have like a little Pay Per Click type thing. I know we have that. But that’s just because I’m scared of Yelp. I’m seeing I’m scared if I don’t do that they’re gonna they’re gonna, yeah, they do things. And so my pay a little bit too real self, which is a website for plastic surgery, but not much. And that’s about it. I don’t do anything else. I, you know, the strongest platform at this point is actually free. And that’s social media. And I, I, you know, I use it myself, personally, I don’t have you know, any significant following compared to my my friends in the area, I have maybe like, 40,000 or so. But I think it’s a very valuable 40,000. I really love the people that follow me. They’re very interactive. They’re very nice, pleasant people. There’s very few. I’m very, very lucky to they’re very you internet. Yeah, who were attacking me and doing things like that, and bringing negative attention or negative energy to my life. So I really do love the social media platform, I just haven’t really started taking advantage of it yet. But I’d say that’s the next step for me is to actually try to have somebody worse than the office, fully managed my social media and get it going a little bit more, because it’s a very powerful way to spread whatever message you want to spread, whether it’s a message of look at my before and after photos, or look at
Justin Trosclair 34:56
that way too.
Yeah, things like that are I’m doing charity work helped me out or, or there’s a new technique I’m using, and here’s evidence that it works is photos, I don’t need to publish an article, I don’t need to go give a seminar, you know, you’re talking to 40,000 people at once. Yeah. And you can turn that into a million. It is a very, very, very powerful way to get your message across instantly, to so many people. So I see that and just unfortunately, work so much. I haven’t had chance to try to hire somebody to come do
Justin Trosclair 35:28
it. But it is for your profession. I would think like you said before and after photos, a quick a quick picture of obviously with consent, but some like flap or something like that is when I looked at the some of the Instagram medical stuff that I look at, there’s a lot of follow. There’s a lot of people like either they’re just in just interested in human body or like they like gross things. I don’t know. Yeah, those accounts get big. They get a lot of users. Yeah.
Yeah, and people love to see, you know, mine is not like that, like mine. I’ve done a couple of things like that people just like to see, I think like my before and afters and things like that, which is it’s nice. But I have a lot of friends who have surgical snapchats or surgical Instagrams, and they display the procedures and people are really intrigued by it, because it is kind of mysterious world to them. They love to see how things are done. They love to see it just like I was curious about medicine, other people are curious about it. And you know, they’ve gotten glimpses through these prior TV shows of the swan and Dr. 902. I know and you know, this stuff, but people are truly fascinated by is one of the main things people are fascinated by I mean, even that TV show botch, which is my friend Paul Nassif, like that show is a hit. And it’s I think one of that, that, that channels biggest TV shows. So there’s a huge
Justin Trosclair 36:52
mistake, we love a happy ending for those types of shows.
Love. Yeah, yeah. And people just love to see what goes on. You know, people have always been locked out of emergency rooms and operating rooms and you know, being able to see behind the scenes of what goes on. So it’s so they do love seeing it. Some people are grossed out by it. I’ve got my Brazilian friends who follow me over there. And every time I put up anything remotely surgical or what they would consider gross, I get like 20 messages at once. bro, bro, while you have to do that.
Every single thing. And so you know,
if I ever do something, I try to give adequate warning beforehand to say, you know, close your eyes if your weekend. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 37:34
exactly. It give us a story. Um, you might if you have one off the cuff, have a story where you really help somebody, and they were they were they were super appreciative. Or you notice that their life is definitely going to be changed. And you were a part of that. You know,
lots of those. I got a very good job. And I’m very lucky I have had
you know, I’ve had a couple of domestic violence patients and the domestic violence victims and one that kind of are a couple of it. But I mean, one that stands out, I’d say it was this lady who she had her throat cut by her husband. And this was no menial back. You know, just trying to scare somebody or hurt somebody. I mean, he was trying to kill it. And you’re after and broken vase and elder by your head and sliced her throat open. And he called the the ambulance she went to the emergency room. And she was pretty much assumed, you know, to be dead at that point, because they’re going to cut down all the way to her spine, to the trachea through everything. So
luckily cut a little bit high, but it cut any major artery, they ended up in debating here, and they save their life. And in the year, then they close everything up, she went home or voice slowly back over the next couple of months, he was able to swallow again over the next couple of months. And she came to me out of her own research and her friend found me they can come in I told her, you know, she wanted to get rid of the scars every time she looked at the scars, she would have post traumatic stress, you would think back to the event. And I told her yet you know, don’t worry at all I’ll take care of this. You don’t have to wait a lot of people say wait a year to treat any kind of scar like this. But if you dealt with people who have been through trauma, you realize that the risk of waiting a year is much greater than you know the risk be taken on by treating it early. So these are things you have to be aware of. And I and I was aware of that. So I’ve dealt with them a lot. And so I pulled it Don’t worry I go you know will take care of this soon. Just pick a time we’ll do it under local anesthetic, no problem. So thanks for tracheotomy scar, fix the scar where you know the husband and slicer across the neck. And at the same time to distract her. I said, you know,
you’re a little bit of putting in your upper eyelids, you want to buy beer, and I’ve done this before, it’s like a little trick. So I do like an upper eyelid surgery on them, which is purely cosmetic. Takes me you know, half hour 45 minutes. And while the healing, they are no longer looking at their neck scarf, or their face cards, they’re actually looking at how pretty their eyelids look. You know, she came in a couple weeks later, and she didn’t realize that she then she said, you know, Dr. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. You’re so sweet of you to do that. She was honestly like, when I was healing, I was even looking at my neck anymore. I was just looking at Oh my god, how big my eyes were now and how my eyes just opened up and I loved it. And it was so great. And and this was really, you know, like I was what started crying like I felt so good that she said that she was so stressed because this this whole, like cutter across the throat was getting off in court for aggravated assault as opposed to attempted murder. Wow. And yeah, because because it was a domestic domestic violence situation. And he’s the one who called the cops. So even though I tried the killer, they came out as aggravated assault. Wow. Yeah. And she was freaked out. She was crying. She was worried. Oh my god, I don’t know what to do. You know, amongst all this, she was still looking at the you know, this little tiny distraction of Oh my god, I love my upper eyelid. So thank you so much. And and, you know, the couple weeks after that the scar on her neck was almost invisible. Super, super hard to see. That’s Wow,
Justin Trosclair 41:31
that’s a great story. I mean that that’ll get you motivated every morning to get up and do this.
Now, I mean, I forget I got lucky. I got
I got I got lots and lots of crazy,
Justin Trosclair 41:42
crazy story. What’s wild is y’all do a surgery. It could be eight hours in there, depending on what you’re doing.
Yeah, yeah, I do plenty of it. Our servers there. It blows me away. Yeah, most of my probably three or four but but it’s, it’s it’s not a long time. I mean, you think about you started 6am You know, you’re done. 2pm It’s Yeah, that’s that’s not sure. Okay.
Justin Trosclair 42:06
I’m glad I’m glad the surgeon feels that way. That’s what that’s the what matters most
Exactly. years of doing it. I don’t want to keep you on the phone forever. So what is it that you do outside of work that could be volunteering could be hobbies that get you grounded in other areas of your life?
I am by no means grounded.
I my passions I’d say my severe passions would be racing. So I race is to raise boats and cars. Now I know it’d be a pretty pretty fast offshore boating but not racing anymore. I still race cars, but those are my two favorite things. And then in the wintertime skiing I used to be a ski patrol so used to be able to instruct driving, racecar driving as well. And they used to be a ski patrol but but skiing racing. Those are my favorite things. I used to play piano a lot I used to compose. That was great for me. But now I live in a condo I don’t have a piano I panic. And I do have one in my office that but I’ve lost my skill I can’t compose anymore. I can play so well anymore. But that’s what I used to love cooking to but I have I can have my own menu on my on my Instagram somewhere. Like hashtag I think Ben tallies kitchen. But I haven’t been able to grow that menu any any farther. Because I’ve just been so busy. And when I get home I can
Justin Trosclair 43:36
you not have the energy to cook a man of many talents here. You happen to have any favorite books, podcasts, anything like that that you secretly love and something that everybody should definitely check out.
Yours is the only podcast I listened to. Wow.
All right. Any books? I know what’s it I don’t read books much anymore. What’s funny is the way that I got my scholarship into medical school was I was a private investigator at the time. I finished college a couple years early. I went to Spain for six months, I was a private investigator for a year. And during that time, this is before smartphones existed. I would sit there reading book after book after book. So I’ve read hundreds and hundreds of books. Because you can imagine a year, eight hours a day I was reading
my med school interview at Vanderbilt, even the dean of the school was interviewing me and asked me like, have you read any good books lately? This is their, you know, their chit chat. They don’t have much to ask. I used to do interviews to for for my med school admissions. So I know you have to have some basic questions to ask one of them was that. And his typical response probably from someone else was, let me think you know, and that’s usually how it goes. And I gave him immediately a list of 20 books in a row that I read. And it was funny because it was like I said, like water for chocolate Water for Elephants East of Eden Garden of Eden I would just come up with and they’re all these books that I read that had similar names coincidentally, and I just kind of like that. And I ended up getting a full scholarship because you were so intrigued by how this guy who’s going into med school has the ability to read so many books. Since that time. I can’t say I’ve read any books.
In my life. I’ve read many.
Justin Trosclair 45:27
No, that’s fair. It’s interesting to see what people say on some of them are like why don’t read anymore, but I do audible. And then other people like yourself. It’s like, you’ve read so many books. He’s like, I’m kind of burned out for now. Maybe one day, I’ll pick them back up.
I watch DC and Marvel comic TV shows on Netflix is what I do. I watch. I watch Daredevil I watch. I watch all those shows.
Justin Trosclair 45:51
That’s awesome. balanced. A balanced diet right there.
Justin Trosclair 45:57
Well, Dr. Ben tally, thank you so much for being on the show. How can people get in touch with you and find out more about you.
So they can get in touch with me by email or on my Instagram is the easiest, my Instagram is Dr. Ben Tally. So if you just put in Dr. Ben like Dr. B, and it pops up. So they can always message me there. Otherwise, my website is Beverly Hills center. com, which is a great domain name, if you didn’t know. So it’s a Beverly Hills center. com and they can always email me through there as well.
Justin Trosclair 46:28
Perfect, perfect. Again, thank you so much for being on the show. And hopefully you’ll get a few clicks and a few phone calls. After after this
Well, you know, I broadcast mostly in America. I just have to live and work here.
Well, it’s a wonderful place to be. It really is.
Justin Trosclair 46:47
I’d like to tell you about a special deal we’re doing right now, if you’re listening to this months or years from right now just contact me maybe we can still offer this for you. But what it is the acupuncture needle book, we’re doing bonuses, the same cost of the book, not only do you get a one hour one on one coaching session, but I will actually throw in the probe and the ears ears which already like to do. But the big thing is you’re going to get the electric acupuncture pin for no extra cost dielectric acupuncture and actually helps you find the acupuncture points that you need to stimulate. And because it’s kind of like a muscle stem, but with a special tip you’re going to get far superior results. Definitely go to need a list acupuncture net, and check that out. Also, the first book, today’s choices tomorrow’s health, you know, we’re talking tips from China or talk 10 plus years experience as a chiropractor, answering patients questions day in and day out blueprints that I personally use to lose weight, not eat so much. And also keep my finances in order. It’s something that I’m passionate about. That’s why I wrote the book. It’s over 200 pages 40 something chapters again, offering a bonus for this one as well. A one on one coaching call for one hour at no extra cost. We got t shirts, some different state prize and chiropractic t shirts, you got any ideas, let me know I can maybe design up something and make it available for everybody. Follow us on social media because there are a lot of sales that go on with the shirts. let you know if you write a review on iTunes, Stitcher, Google podcast, Spotify, wherever, let me know send me an email. And every month I can raffle off one prize The prize is to be determined, but we can do that. Also, check out any of the resources page on a doctor’s perspective. net, you see all our affiliate links, which we get a little kickback for. And then of course on every show page we have Amazon links for the books that people have mentioned in the other types of products. So you click that Amazon pays us a little bit. As always, thank you so much for listening. You can buy the host a cup of coffee on a PayPal button on the website and remember, listen critically think about it and implement it into your practice.
We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, sharing on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guests. sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.
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