Kenneth Chillson DC USA developed his own adjusting analysis system in Germany called Intellispine, expanding to 100 offices and needs chiropractors, what’s holding the dc profession back, aberrant biomechanics and core traits needed for staff.
How getting into a profession for the wrong reasons creates a hurdle that must be overcome. The good news is, he made a mental shift and had many successful clinics and chains, semi-retired early and then moved to Germany.
Why did he go from a high volume clinic to treating clients for 20 minutes per session with faster outcomes?
Discover why he became a German citizen.
Dr. Chillson talks all about the practice life, professional respect with other doctors and patients, insurance model, differences of USA vs German (especially the idea of time away from work) and scope in Europe, UK and Germany specifically.
What are some of the challenges doing chiropractic abroad as well as the legality of work visas? The ratio is around 6000 dc’s to over 700 million people.
He has chosen to specialize in scoliosis and low back pain.
How a scoliosis patient not only switched Dr. Kenneth over to spending more time with patients and learning all he could from scoliosis based chiropractic techniques, but also how he created Intellispine.
What was causing all these lateral spinal curves was his impetus. Hint it might have something do with the sacro-iliac joint and muscle lengths. He discovered patterns that a vast majority of people fall into so now most of his practice deals with the Muscle of musculoskeletal.
He developed, https://www.intellispinesoftware.com/ a software program to help evaluate the condition based on a functional exam and recommends the muscles to treat. It came about from years of clinical experience and experimentation but he has boiled it down to an intensive 30 step process. He isn’t shy to say he sees a lot of patients get 80% reduction of symptoms in 1 visit.
Dr. Chillson is looking to create a Chain of Intellispine Clinics and actually has 3-5 clinics opening very soon. Long term goals are to have 100s if not 1000s across Europe. If you are a doctor who likes what he has to say, contact him because he needs chiropractors and he even discusses a basic payment structure… of course that could change at any time so be aware.
Learn about what 3 techniques he has combined for the specific low back treatment. He has recorded over 200 hours of training videos but also says for most of the spinal adjustments, you can do whatever technique you like best. You still have to make a diagnosis and be the doctor.
This will be a Franchise based clinic with the intent of after 3 years and the trained doctor taking over. Listen for all the details.
As a profession, are we failing to co-exist? Can we sustain if we don’t change our mantra… at least a little? Listen for his solution.
Should the TOR not proclaim the TIC so loud and prominently? Is it Subluxation or Aberrant BioMechanics? What’s the solution to the Chiropractic Poor Public Relations?
Advice for students: trust in yourself and Dr. Chillson actually gives a detailed way to keep overhead down. Plus a student loan hack that you have to hear to believe.
Staff: Tips to hire, should you do full or part time and what to look for during the interview (body language and core traits). He even gives tips on the type of personality for each role in the office.
Leo Tolstoy War and Peace
Dr Kenneth Chillson can also be found at https://www.chillsonspecificmethods.com/
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/41 here you can also find the transcript of the interview, links to things mentioned and the Travel Tip.
Episode 41 German franchise chiropractor holds nothing back. I'm your host, Dr. Justin shows Claire today, Dr. Kim Nelson perspective.
Join 2017 podcast Awards Nominated host Dr. Justin tro square as he gets a rare to see him look into the specialties, all types of doctors and guess plus marketing, travel tips, struggles, goals and relationship advice. Let's hear a doctor's perspective.
Welcome back to Episode 41. I'm sure you notice the change in the graphic. What do you think now I'm still gonna have specific show notes with travel photos, but then I'm giving the guest both the lab coat style and that one so that they can use it as they want. So as always leaves the feedback that we need to make a choice to keep doing that or just do with the crowd likes. Alright, so today is Dr. Kenneth chosen USA citizen. But now a German citizen find out why he developed his own adjust and analysis system called Intel a spine. He's expanding to hundreds of offices over the next couple years and he needs chiropractor. So stay tuned, listen to the type of practice he has. And if you're interested, contact him maybe get a job. We also talk about the tour and the tick and what needs to happen so that we don't fade away as a professional show notes can be found at a doctor's perspective. NET slash for one, let's go hashtag behind the curtain.
Live from China. Great guest today, because he's live from Germany. We have Dr. Kenneth kjellson, Doctor of Chiropractic. Welcome to the show. Morning. Thank you all very, very glad to have you on. I mean, one of the first questions I always have is why why did you pick chiropractic of all the things available? And then maybe give a background story of how you end up in Germany? Because you are American?
No, I'm German, though. Yes. I wasn't married yet. Yeah. So So how did I pick hierarchy? Or did chiropractic actually pick me that? Would that would be a better question, I could say is probably not a very pretty story, I got into it for the wrong reasons. And that's kind of a, it's not a great thing for people who are trying to decide to get into this, I got in into it for the money. And it's not such a great thing. There's some hard lessons learned when you get into it like that is definitely not the reason that I stayed. But it's definitely the reason that I got into it. So you know, I was 16 years old when I made the decision. And back then 1983, there wasn't a whole lot of information about chiropractic or the profession at all, in any kind of library or public library or university library. So all I knew was that I had my chiropractor who I knew was a doctor. And you know, he was doing well. And there was very little competition, there was only two chiropractors in my town. at that particular time, you know, the time I wanted to be a lawyer. So I just went to the phone book, and I looked in the phone book, and I saw that there were nine pages of lawyers in this little town of about 40,000 people and to chiropractors. Okay, well, that makes my decision for me.
Yeah. And that was quite a different. Once you get into the real world you like, Oh, okay. So it's not
as easy as putting some hard lessons learned. I mean, if you're trying to get into chiropractic for the money, you're definitely getting into it for the wrong reasons. You can earn money in this profession, but if not, if you're not into it for the right reasons, right?
And then how did you end up in Germany?
Well, I had had several practices, I had to change going and had three, five, I have five other practices going, and essentially, I kind of retired a bit early. And so I was born in Switzerland, and really loved the European, you know,
culture and so forth. And when I decided to go back into chiropractic, I just decided that I wanted to come to Europe and your Germany was the first place that I was offered a job? And
did you have to take an entire family with you? Is that a issue at the time? Or?
Well, my family? My kids were already grown. So yeah, that wasn't an issue.
When we talk about chiropractic, there's all kinds of different specialties that we can have. Maybe other professions don't realize that but there's niches and there's different markets. So what do you consider your specialty?
Well, my specialty would be muscular, skeletal correction of scoliosis, and effective treatment of low back pain.
Do you notice that there's any difference between practicing in America versus Germany, like the perceived value, the prestige of being a doctor, anything like that, that affects the way you practice differently?
Well, that doesn't in particular, affect how I practice. But I can say that in Germany, at least, we have a lot more respect from our medical counterparts than we do in America. People in Germany, love everything American, they want to experience what it's like to have American healthcare. And they're not so happy with what they've got here is what least what I've been able to see. Yeah, so they love everything American and they want to speak English with you. And so actually, I could say it's been quite a bit easier in Germany than it ever was in America.
Do you know German or day is enough English where you can get by
$100? Tell? Okay, I speak German. Okay, yeah.
So the healthcare field a part of the system or you like a, you know, cash pay not involved with insurance because it's not allowed?
Yeah, it's a little bit different in Germany than in in most European countries. chiropractic is not a recognized profession. as a standalone professions, so we we work with, I'll practice with our just in general health professionals, or medical doctors, physical therapist, awesome.
Did you have to get the European boards and all that are German allows you to just use your American credentials,
you can use your American credentials, but like I said, you still have to work with other professional,
right? Okay, because I had looked at I'm working somewhere in Europe before in the UK, and they have their own boards, just like Australia. And so it was like, if you want to practice here, you have to take all new boards. I was like, Oh, no, no, I've been out of school a little bit too long for that.
Well, even that's a little bit interesting. I've actually just applied for my UK license through the GCC, and that will get approved. So there's a long questionnaire that you have to fill out. But with enough experience, and you show that, you know, you are able and experienced and you know fulfill their their requirements, you can get a license in the UK, I gotta tell you in the UK, and in Europe, we are seriously lacking for chiropractors, over here. We've got roughly 6000 chiropractors, or I think at the maximum eight, throughout the entire Europe. And then so we've got a population here 730 million, as opposed to America that has 330,075,000 chiropractors, so we definitely do not have enough guys over here.
Is it something where if you you know, I don't know about new grab, and maybe they've been out for like three or four years, they've been associating learning how to do the do everything? Is it difficult for us to just go to France or Australia or Germany and open up a shop and just try to make a go at it? Or is it kind of difficult to do that,
you're certainly allowed to, I guess the difficult Miss of it would be or the difficulty of it would be learning the language, you do have to get a work visa, for instance, to come to Germany. And you know, we can do that for you. But in other countries, yes, you do have to get a work visa, you can't just as American pick up and move over here and decide you're going to open a practice unless you have family here. Or unless you you get registered to live here and you have your own money. The German government especially once you to make sure that you can take care of yourself. And you'll have to go through quite a bit of paperwork to in order to get your allowance to work and live here. So they'll they'll look at those that paperwork pretty thoroughly. But you know, we we've been here now for I've been here now for going on 10 years, and have been able to figure out how to get through all that paperwork pretty quickly. So for Germany, not so difficult, but for the rest of the countries. You know, it's kind of hard to say I haven't been in there. But now that I am European, we have what's called the Schengen zone. This is where any European can work in any other European country. Yeah, right. Yeah. So I can work now in France, Italy, and the UK, it doesn't really matter, right? As long as you have a European citizenship, whatnot, then of course, you have to get the allowance, like a visa. Right?
Yeah, that's interesting. Because I'm thinking if there's not very many chiropractors, they might be like, yeah, you know, let's, let's get you that visa, we have a niche, or we have a population that could use your services, if they recognize it very much. That is a good thing for near citizens, anything like Yeah, come
on. And we don't have enough you guys different in the UK, I can say, especially if they already are saying with just 2000 plus maybe 2500, chiropractors there, that they're already saturated. So in the UK, there at least the facing the same kind of biases that we experience in America, and the rest of Europe, not so much. But in the UK, especially they are and considering that's where most of the actual chiropractic colleges are. And we've got some challenges there.
What are you finding that are some common misconceptions about chiropractic that you've experienced?
Well, I guess the primary thing would be that we're considered quacks. And we're not educated. And I've heard that my entire career. In fact, I was taught how to handle that particular sentence, I guess, you know, what I was, when I was early in practice. You know, in Germany, that's not really too much of an issue. Now, if you have a diploma of any kind, you know, you have your training, you have a diploma and they respect that. So I'm not really experienced that so much in Germany as I did in America.
Yeah, it is an interesting statement, because they don't just hand out anything that says, Dr. Anywhere is in America, right? You know, you've had some sort of board, there's a bunch of oversight, they don't just let you get your you know, anybody call themselves a doctor? Come on now.
Right? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of education that goes into it, the Germans understand that if you have a diploma, they know how hard it is to actually earn that deployment, what kind of work goes into it, very stringent system here. And so if you have a diploma, they completely respect that. And that's why also the medical profession here has more respect for an American Doctor of Chiropractic, then you would actually find necessarily in UK or in America, and the rest of Europe, you know, other than the UK, I would say is, would be very similar.
Yeah, yeah. Any other misconception? I mean, it's really a nice place to work is that you know, that's the issue, you actually have some respect. And, you know, you're not having to explain, well, yes, I am a doctor. You know what I mean? Germany, you're not allowed all yourself, Dr. To title thing, and it's very political, but call myself kind of Pilsen, DC and in parentheses, USA. Well, that just states that of course, my doctor of chiropractic diploma was issued in the USA, but it still has the respect that any other diploma would hold you.
Okay, so people understand it's kind of a political thing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, in your practice, what type of patients are you seeing? What kind of concerns are they asking?
I get mainly referrals. And I don't have a whole lot of concerns when the patient comes to see me other than they want to know if I can help. That's, that's pretty easily handled, I just tell them on are you going to we're going to do an examination, and this is what I do. And if I find something that I can help, I will tell you, and if I can't, I'll tell you. But if I can't, I'll tell you where you need to go. So you know, I'm very honest with him, I don't see patients for a long period of time, or very frequently, simply because the method that I haven't developed, works so quickly. I mean, I used to be, you know, the high, the high volume guy, As matter of fact, when I moved to Germany, I was still practicing that way. And that was still my model. I'd built up one of the biggest practices in Europe, you know, the concerns, were always How much is it going to cost? And is it going to hurt and
your questions, you know what I mean? So, but anymore, I probably pretty much don't need to handle anything.
What are you doing now? I mean, if you're not having to, if you're going from like a long treatment plan to kind of a smaller one. And is there a special technique that you use our it's kind of something that you developed through the years of practice?
Well, actually, you know, through years of practice, but it was about four years ago that I call it the happy accident. But it was some couple of years before that I'd had a little Turkish girl, she was a patient mine and had scoliosis and it was progressive. And when her parents brought her, to me, her, her curve was already at about 18 degrees. And at that time, I was I was the high volume practitioner. I mean, I didn't spend any more between 30 seconds and three minutes with a patient. But this girl, I really spent a lot more time with and trying to figure out, you know, how to help her. And, you know, I did study into the, the chiropractic, biophysics and some other techniques that, you know, made promises of helping people with scoliosis. You know, I couldn't get her better. I treated him for about six months, and the curvature progressed. I just couldn't get her better using just chiropractic techniques. Yeah. So it was a couple of years later when I was in a new practice, because I was what's called the chief doc. Okay. And owner in that particular practice, I was able to spend a little bit more time with patients. You know, I had a patient that I've been saying for years, and he had, he had scoliosis, the the textbook definition, not the or not, you know, not the medical definition. He had a severe lateral curvature of the spine, but it was functional. His left hip was always about four centimeters lower than the right, and the standing examination, and he always had hip pain and knee pain. Well, on this particular day, I took more time with him, because I could you know what, I mean, I was allowed. So you know, I was rubbing the hurt spots, you know, as we talked about golf and so forth, treated him for about 20 minutes, and another patient waiting. And so I finished up the treatment gave him the adjustment. And he stood up and said, you know, for the first time in five years, he didn't have hip pain, back pain or knee pain. And I thought, well, it's funny. I've been seeing you two to three times a week now for five years. And you know, you come because you feel better for a day, which is all you need. But now all of a sudden, you feel better. Yeah, I checked. Yeah. And his his hips were level. And his mind was straight. And I thought, Okay, what did I just do here. So I went to the drawing board, and I took all those years of experience and the laying out every curve that I had ever seen, I started to work on a theory as to what was actually causing these lateral parameters. And I tested and made theory and retested and honestly only took about two weeks before I made the major discovery. And that was the true function of the sake grueling act joined. The theory was basically based on muscle length, once I figured this thing out, I started seeing patterns of taking it to it's ridiculous end, where we can actually see which muscles are affected and how they're functioning and what kind of treatment that they actually need. So I would say my method, my treatment now is about 95% muscle work. So I say a musculoskeletal and then very little adjusting, I have adopted or adapted several techniques into one for the low back handled disc, her nations in particular types of PR, which are basically use the body's own biomechanics to remind itself what normal is, and it works like a charm.
So it's more than just a little rubber here and a little rubber here and a stretch here, there's definitely an entire system of like how you're evaluating which muscles to actually release and, and all that,
that you have to follow. And most people actually fall into the same pattern. But there's about 2% of the population that goes completely outside that Well, me being a perfectionist, I'm not happy with 98% I took it like I said to it's ridiculous in actually created a program called Intel a spine that has all these findings programmed into it. So basically, you just put in your your functional findings from the examination you would normally do. And the computer then evaluates the findings that you put in and will tell you, okay, here's the muscle involved. And this is the step that you need to do. And, you know, so it will, it will give you about maybe 30 steps to get a patient from in pain in unlevel and curved to straight. And, you know, that happens in about one to five visits. So I don't normally see pace, you know,
doing all 31 time.
No, no, no, I will. I will, that might be too much for some people.
A lot of times they will get off the table and be a little bit dizzy. Yeah, you realize that sometimes you can over stimulate the nervous system, but you're also releasing a lot of endorphin and lactic acid into the blood. And so that causes business. So okay, yeah, so depending on the cuteness, you know, sometimes I won't do as much initial muscle work as I would normally. But I definitely will go into the biomechanical treatment, the adjustment, yeah, get them out of pain as soon as possible. And I have not seen anybody yet where they don't respond at least 80% improvement of the pain, actual mechanical condition. On the first visit. Wow.
Now is this a program you buy it? And then you just punch it in? And is there a lot of training involved? There's there are a lot of hands on, we have to go to a seminar to actually be able to learn how to implement what the computer says to what you actually have to do.
It's actually pretty easy. Like I said, at the examination that well, I would assume most chiropractors are actually doing anything. I mean, it does require that you know how to help you understand God's dead listings. Go. Yeah, you get you got to know your guns. So but that's pretty easy. It's pretty easy to fill.
You can learn it, you learn it.
I mean, really, I mean, how hard it is it is it to figure out prs trained a medical doctor on God's dead listings. He got it, you know, and get it into you know what I mean? No, you can't just buy the program is something that we have decided we're going to open a chain clinics that have chiropractors, osteopaths, physical therapists, and orthopedist. And the reason we we've gone in that direction is very simply the lack of number of chiropractors that we have available. And so we will do this and put the software in the practice, then we have something that we can reproduce and get consistent results.
That's very good. Because there's so many techniques out there that that's, you know, like activator impulse, they're always about, if you go to this doctor, and you go to the website, you can find, you know, 6000 doctors that quote, could practice the same way. So you know, what you're going to get? So if you're referring and everything.
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the idea. Yeah, behind a franchise is that you have a reproducible system. Luckily, and this this program, and the method is not dependent on technique. I mean, if you're an activator doctor, you can use activator if you want to use guns to use Gunston. As far as the adjusting techniques, the only place it gets a little bit more specific, is in the low back. And we use a combination of Mackenzie, Logan, basic technique, and some some cops. But other than that, I mean, like I said, it's kind of like an adapted combination of these three techniques to gather, but it's pretty easy to learn. I've made but 200 hours worth of training videos on this already. Yeah, and so it's not that hard to figure out. Yeah,
figuring it out and being each efficient and proficient in mastery, that's two different things to the
Yeah, I mean, when you basically the program is like me standing over your shoulder and saying, Okay, now, move the patient's left to the right, and push on l five on the left side and use this line to drive and so so, you know, it's kind of like, mentor standing over your shoulder. But you know, you can look at it, the patient doesn't have to know that you're using it or right, you know, so but it's developing into something even a little bit more detailed that we have made contact with a gaming company, actually out of the Netherlands. And we'll be producing 3d Interactive virtual reality software for this. So essentially, will be able to build a 3d image around the patient, we will actually use that program then to actually do measurements and the examination will change a bit. In this particular program, we don't want you not to be a doctor, you know, you're not, I don't want not be a doctor and be a technician. What it is, is a solution for a problem that you may be having with a patient or with your results or with your patient satisfaction. It's not going to make a diagnosis for you that's still up to you still have to be the doctor
if someone was like really interested in was intrigued by this, would they kind of need to be an associate of some sort with you for like a year and a new, you know, if you're going to franchise it out in this new clinic, and then they could learn what they need to go back to the states or some results and open up.
Yeah, yes, they would. As a matter of fact, what we're setting up and like I said, is a franchise system, where the training will last between two and three months, depending on what you need. And the thing is, if you know how to adjust a neck, you know, everything else, pretty much as cake. So you know the training is in the program, all you need to do is be able to read and have even just a little bit of experience and know where the anatomy, okay,
well, that's nice. So somebody could actually take a summer often or if they graduated, they can make the contact and say Hey, can I do a three month or you know, something like that, and just kind of learn some more stuff and and then be ever taken with them. And
yeah, I mean, we could do that. But that's not really the model our model is to people in that are serious about owning their own practice. And so we will train them, we will set them up in practice, we will show them that they don't have to be a high volume type of practitioner. And we do charge, probably more than anybody else in Europe for what we do. But the treatments that again, do take at least 20 minutes and sometimes longer depending on the patient's condition, right. So we charge for that, but we definitely do not promote high volume. Yeah, and so our model is to give the patients what they need, given the proper amount of time. And for the doctors, it's to stay, earn a living, learn how to run a business, learn how to actually give a proper treatment, so you don't have to give so much or do so much marketing, you can actually have a practice that is entirely referral based. And then we sell the practice to the doctor for you know, half of what it's worth is at the end of three years. And so this is an online program so the doctors can continue to use the program afterwards. Very nice.
Has it? Have you gotten more locations started our This is all kind of in the the brainstorming and we're going to be implementing it stage.
It's not in the brainstorming stage anymore. We have the plan, we actually opened the first office next week, the second office will be open then in about three weeks. I'll be training or doctors Yeah. And over the next four to six months, we will open x exponentially. So congratulations, we will have thanks, we'll have the the doctors that we just trained train new doctors, of course, will have the supporting videos that I've shot in blogs, in the end, we promote in our office support. So you know, if you have a question or you have a problem, always call one of the other Docs or you can call me or get on line and check the web for the answer. And we'll have a video there for you that you can watch. The whole thing is about support. But I also am not. So I would say I'm not so arrogant to think that I know it all. And I know people have their own talents, right. And so we want learn from those that we hire, we want to we want to teach those who we hire, but everybody has different experiences, my my experiences were different than yours. And you might have a different way that you understand how to adjust see one for example, there's a fellow on on our power practice practice support forum group on Facebook. And his name is Tiger Suzuki. And he's really gotten very deep into the particular types of understanding about the neck and the how see one works. And he does amazing things. And I'm not saying that our program doesn't handle those particular issues, we handle low back issues, probably better than anything, but I'm a Logan guy, you know what I mean?
Basically what my training was in, but that's also you know, the number one health care problem in the world today is low back problems. That's what I that's what I went after. But, you know, I would love to have guys come in that do the Palmer package and understand chiropractic biophysics, and, you know, to work together and improve the system. So it's always based on getting a better system out there and giving a full care package.
Yeah, because there's a lot of you know, low back pain is number one, neck pain headaches, that's number two. So in, like you said, if you were tracking low back patients in your referral base, your product going to just have a lot more of what you're specializing in the low back. So that makes sense.
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. So for my own practice, of course, I don't do any advertising whatsoever. As matter of fact, I've had to tell patients, please don't send so many people to me, because I'm kind of busy building and tell a spine at the moment. So I can't I don't have the car. Right. You know, they respect that to a degree. But still, I get more referrals than when I can give me a month with a couple more locations. And then we can just rock it.
Yeah, exactly. And they're all scared that the deck or chosen is going to leave, leave Cologne, you know, know, what am I going to do? You know? Like, listen, I'm making a system, it's reproducible, you know,
you can get the same result, as soon as I have a chiropractor or somebody who knows how to adjust a neck trained in the system.
Here we go. What kind of advice do you happen to have for new doctors or a struggling doctor who's maybe been in practice for like six or seven years? Any? Any advice?
Well, let's, let's put that into a new doctor. And, Doctor, there's been in practice for six or seven years, okay, new doctor. You mean a student graduating, or somebody who has already opened the practice?
I guess, I think that's almost one in the same like, the guy who's maybe getting out of school was like, I want to start my own practice, or do I need an associate? You know, what's, what can I do to be successful from day one,
first of all, I would say trust in yourself, trust your brain, don't jump at the first opportunity that comes along, there's a lot of opportunity out there. If I were to look back and see, make a decision based on the experiences I had, I would say open up your first practice yourself as soon as possible.
But keep your overhead low. That's the problem. Everybody thinks. So you know, when they get out of school, they have to have a big fancy office. And you know, the most expensive X ray machine like that's been to impress anybody that I mean, unless you're in in Hollywood or someplace, you know, where that type of look is, is what people want, it's been my experience, people don't really care how fancy your office looks, what they want, is to get better, as fast as they can with as little money out of the pocket as possible. So offer that you can keep your costs slow, what's low, you can keep your problem? Well, depends on the area that you're in. But I would say you can keep your cost to no more than 2000 a month, really, you know, and then rent. Yes. So I mean, if you have to rent a single room, and do everything off your cell phone, for your booking and your scheduling, and not have any employees, and not have that kind of responsibility, and use efficient marketing, like Facebook ads, and in house lectures, and so forth, that's what you should do gotta keep that overhead low problem, most students are facing these unbelievable student loans that they have. They're just so astronomical. And you know, when you understand that,
every year they go up,
let me tell you what you're paying interest on your interest. And that's incalculable interest. And what people don't realize is that when you consolidate your loans, they no longer become real student loans, the terms change, and so you can't stop the interest from accruing, my recommendation would be on that is to stay registered as a full time student somewhere, even if it's in a cheap Community College where you just take eight to 12 hours or whatever they consider the full time and your student and adult consolidate, okay, your student loans then will not gain interest, they just are in limbo. And so as you earn money, as you keep your overhead low, and your profit high, use every bit of that money that you can, that you don't have to have to live on, and pay down those student loans, it's like a zero percent interest loan, you couldn't do it any better. And you can pay off your loans, then, in a couple of years, maybe two or three years, as opposed to having these things be a monkey on your back for your whole life. So that's that would be my recommendation to a new student is to number one, keep your overhead as low as possible. That's actually our business model. To not be big and fancy, but to actually be cost efficient. So we don't have to stress our staff and our doctors, you know, we don't have to, we don't have to see two or 300 visits a week or 1000 visits a week, we can get by on 60 or 120 visits a week, and be extremely profitable.
And I like that, but you said you can just rent a room. Because I always think you have to go out and get a 1200 square foot office, build it out, do all these different things. And like you said, that's when you have $100,000 and other extra hundred thousand 200,000 building out plus the rent, you know, obviously, you got really high overhead when you could have just started in somebody else's office or whatever for a year, or grow out of it and actually have a base,
exactly just rent from another chiropractor, you know, being independent, contractor. Right, or if there's a physical therapy office, or if it's legal in your state, if there's some place that you can find that is just an office space, just a room. That's all you need. When you start to get busy, of course, you're going to have to have some place for your patience to wait. So when you when you rent that room, consider that maybe you should have at least a very small waiting room enough for you know, two to three chairs in it. And really not more, because you're going to handle your business. Yeah, in treatment from
any any comments about staff, how to find guns, how do you train them any, any nuggets of wisdom force, the
staff that you hire is going to be the dependent on your practice model. Now there are high volume practice models, and there are our practice model, our practice model is you have a receptionist, you don't need anything else you in receptionist and your receptionist wouldn't would only be part time and actually have three part time receptionist That way, when I'm sick or when I was on vacation, you always have somebody else to cover. Like I said, it kind of depends on your your practice model, if you want to do high volume, you're going to have to have a lot of staff, each position has its own particular personality that you would want to hire for, of course, your receptionist, you want to have somebody who is dependable and responsible, somebody who will be there somebody that you can trust that is not going to walk out with the money in their pocket, you know, right? That's happened so many times, you know, so what's what's the best one that you can hire? Well, that kind of hard to actually say, and I have to try one piece of advice that I can Yeah, when you're doing the interview is to look into the eyes, if the person will not make eye contact with you and cannot answer a question relatively quickly, regardless of what the answer actually is, this actually tells you that the person is not honest, and that they can't think on their feet. And if you're going to have a high volume practice, you need people who are honest and can think on their feet. And these are just two little tricks that you can do during your interview that will give you that of course, if you have marketing people, you want to type A personality, but there's plenty of Type A personalities that are not dependable. So you have to look at their work history. You know, if they're getting fired or alone, or they're jumping from job to job to job, they're probably not very dependable. So and how do you know if you got a type A personality? Well, that's the person who walks in and does the interview, and you just want to go to lunch with him you just bought I mean, you just want to hang out with him for the rest of the day. That's your type A personality. But when I have other personality types that you want to hire for different positions, your front desk, you don't want necessarily to be that that type a really go out and get them type of person. Because not going to be happy in that position for very long, you're going to have to move that person into the marketing position where the social butterfly, yeah, my particular business model, I just want somebody who can think and somebody who is dependable and will be there. But I also realistic enough to know that, you know, not everybody is there for the same reasons that you are. So really, it's going to depend more on you than it is on them. So you have to plan that people are not going to be as responsible as you would like, plan around that so called training the higher time receptionist, you you know what I'm saying? As opposed to one full time receptionist? Yeah,
yeah. Then if you find out that other ones better, you can say just let one of them go and then do another higher. Just keep keeping the best people to
Yeah, I mean, you gotta have a good reason to let someone go, you know what I mean? It could be that they just would fit better in a different position, maybe doing something else. Insurance billing person, if you accept insurance, well, this is the person who's going to be the workhorse, you know what they show up, they're there to do a job. And they're very methodical about how they do things, you know, they're good at math. Yes, they're gonna want to look at little clues like that. So you know, if you have somebody who's not happy or not working on you doesn't necessarily mean you need to fire him. It means that maybe, you know, you need to look at yourself and look at your organization and see where maybe they would better fit. And when you show that you're trying to go above and beyond for them, they'll go above and beyond for you as well,
because very true. Thank you for that information. Sounds like you're going to have some amazing five year goals based on Intel, a spine, but between the five year goals and what gets you excited for the future, anything you want to share on that?
Oh, well. Okay, so my five year goals. So that's the have 1700 practices open in Europe and 10 year goals, the rest of the world. So those are my actual goals. What actually gets me excited about this is, Listen, I've been in chiropractic now for going on 27 years, and I've seen us take so much heat. And I know why we take the heat, and anybody who's a chiropractor knows why we take the heat. You know, I can't say that we're right, I can't say that we're wrong. But what I can say is we're losing. And what I would like to do is make us when and if that means that we have to change our model to some degree, that if that means that that we have better cooperation with the other physical medicine specialties, then that's what we're going to do, because we as chiropractors do have something to offer. And it is as good as any other health profession. But we have to survive. If we keep going the way that we do, we're not going to end my system, at least, will keep us alive. Now. There are other specialties out there that I praise for doing the jobs that they're doing. The functional medicine, the musculoskeletal, guys, the guys that are not preaching something that somebody else can't understand. Right, my dreams for the future is that we survive, and that we are actually completely accepted by all the other medical professionals of professions. And we're actually held to that same degree. And so it's survivability, and it's evolving.
Would you say that a pet peeve of yours are all the tours talking to tick a little too strongly? The the you know, the way
I know exactly what you're in, in, I would say yes, that's a pet peeve. Okay, when you're going to be high volume, that's okay. That's okay to preach that kind of thing. Like I said, doesn't mean we're wrong. But we got to do a better job at proving it. And the only guys I see actually proving what we do, honestly, are the guys that are doing the the quantum physics of what we do. The only problem with that is, then it's too early. You know, what I'm saying is you don't get the same kind of consistency that you should. So it's going to take a very high level of practitioner to actually get consistent results with what they're talking about. You know, that's, I appreciate those guys for what they're doing the proving their civilization to some degree, but they're still calling it public station when it's something completely different. From what I understand. Yeah, yeah. So I can say, yes, that's one of my pet peeves. But we have to adapt, we have to change our model. And we have to offer something with reasonable explanation and with proper, consistent results. And that's one of the reasons that I wrote intelligible.
Do you think there's any word that would mean a barren motion? And I don't have a camera receptors that just aren't firing correctly? I don't know if there's a word out there that encompasses all of that, because that, to me seems like more what we're doing, then civilizations?
Yeah, you would want to call that sublimation? Certainly, yeah, I would call it ever biomechanics, I would not call that a civilization, there's a reason for that. And to group it into something called civilization is nothing more than creating a new syndrome. So you might want to call it the civilization syndrome as a group of symptoms, or a group of ultra biomechanics, that maybe you can now redefine civilization as with and take out the, you know, it's causing nerve irritation with makes my my stomach not function properly, because that's clearly not what's going on. And I'm going to step on a few toes here and don't really want to do that. However, I can say, you need to be able to tell the truth and come from the heart and know what it is that you're talking about, and not just regurgitate someone else's rhetoric about what they think it is, say, if you're going to use the word civilization, we better give it a different definition. I
think sometimes that's the challenges, we were starting to really learn what's going on, you know, deep in the science and nerve tracks and all that kind of stuff. But having to take that and translate it back into something that a patient understands, that doesn't just deer in the headlights, but still, they can understand it, where this the Okay, so that's what's going on. That's really kind of complicated. So that's why you guys are still around, and it works so well. You're like, yeah,
yeah, we certainly have our challenges with that. But I think we all should not underestimate underestimate the intelligence of our patients. course there are people out there that will never get it. But I think we should not underestimate the intelligence of our patients when we explain something about why they're having the back pain, for instance. That's all they want to know. They want to know why they're having the back pain. They want to know why their knee hurts every time they walk, or why does your knee hurt every time they're back hurts? Yeah, to go into the history of chiropractic and so forth is doing nothing more than, you know, trying to get convinced them to stay on a long term treatment plan or high frequency in high cost treatment plan, when you can actually deliver the same result without having to go into all that. Yeah, we're talking too much and not doing enough. And I think that's the biggest problem, why we have such a PR problem. I mean, if you go into the internet, at any time today, and you type in Chiropractic and look at the first page of everything that comes, why would any patient ever go to a chiropractor, once they see that. So you need to do something that is not going along the lines of what they're preaching against on the internet, you need to offer something that gets such dramatic results, that your patients don't even go to the internet. And you know, when when your patient goes to her husband and says, Hey, you know what, this is the most amazing thing. In one treatment, I felt 80% better my second treatment, I have no pain whatsoever. And now the doctor wants to see me again in two weeks, because he just wants to make sure that the thing is not coming back. The husband's not even going to look in the internet and look up what what is it about chiropractic? You're going to say? Okay, I'm going to go down to Dr. Chelsea now and get my back because because she got her back, but we're making it too difficult.
And when you only have to go a few times the fees aren't going to be you know, you're not looking at a $6,000 bill or a $5,000. Bill. That's helpful, too.
Yeah. And so when people understand and appreciate what you're doing, because of the results you're getting, yeah, you don't need to sell a lot and have them coming in that frequently to keep your your income high. income is going to be high anyway. Because of all the referrals that you get. Yeah, like I said, doesn't need to be so hard. Just do a good job.
Right? Agreed? Well, let's switch gears. I know I want to respect your time, we'll switch gears to the more personal part of the interview sound like a really busy guy. Are you able to take any vacation? In not? What can you do to take more?
Well, I could say certainly, while I've been in Europe, I take at least six weeks a year. But in the last four years since I got into this take maybe 30 days, a year since I got into this but I think the the time off is very important. But you know, I do do my relaxation very efficiently. You know, you take vacation, at least the way I see it, not to actually just run out and do a bunch of cool stuff. You take your vacation to recharge your batteries. And that means relax and ponder and think and let your body heal. I do that in zona Yeah, we have a sauna.
So we have saunas. Here, when you go through this, this process, you go sit in the hot, cool, and then you sit in the zona, and your sweat and you lay on the the couches and you know you can meditate and so forth, you can really regenerate your body pretty quickly. You know, I have to make my my vacations as efficient as my work. So,
I mean, I typically get up about four o'clock in the morning, and I worked at about eight o'clock at night, and come home, have dinner and go to bed.
You need to tell me, you have to you going to be efficient and what you're doing. But certainly the goal is to have more free time. But at the moment, my my purpose of my goals are a little bit lofty to take too much time off
the 30 days is not too bad either as a independent chiropractor, business owner, I mean, that's, that's pretty good, I would think
Let me tell you what if you could do that in America, that would be great. I can say I took about 10 days of vacation in 17 years in America. Over here. It's a cultural thing in America, it's not and so I can appreciate now, at least being able to take a vacation. See, the problem that you have got an America is you take a vacation and you don't know if your practices are going to exist when you come back. And if you hire somebody else to come into your practice and and look over it, well, you're going to have to pay that guy and only half the patients are going to come anyway. And when you get back, you know your patients are going to be mad at him because that guy doesn't do it just like you.
This is the reason why I asked these questions.
Europe, it's completely different. I mean, the whole cultural mindset is built on relaxation, having a balance doc you ever so you close your practice for it for a month, and you come back your practices still there, they're glad to see that you're back as good.
I like that. I like that a lot. Volunteering, hobbies, anything that it sounds like and tell us mine probably takes up a lot of your time. But any anything else that distracts you?
Well, I wouldn't consider it a distraction. hobby. Yes, zona, okay. And I learned as many languages as I can. So I'm studying Spanish and Italian. Together, fluent in German now. After that, I'll move to French and we'll see what comes next. How did it take you to learn German? Oh, my god.
I'm still learning I could say you know, not a native German speaker, you don't ever speak it properly or perfectly mean? Unless you're just a genius. And you know, unless you have a real knack for the languages, I find the Latin language is so much easier. The German I mean, I didn't even really even otter my first real sentence that I thought of until I'd been here three years, but you know, not one that, you know, they say after you learn your second language, the rest of them come easier. I found that to be very, very true. But that first foreign language you're gonna learn, it'd be pretty difficult.
Yeah, man, significant other spouse? Is there anything you can do to keep the love alive and feel connected?
Honestly, there's nothing I need to do to keep the love alive. I've been with my own color, my girlfriend but my my life partner now for six years, I can say is the best relationship that I've ever had in my life, she is can lately be supportive of everything that I do. And very a dolt, I can say, meaning there's no childish expectations of the other one, we're very realistic about our particular situations, I can say that there's no one particular thing that you can do. I think that if you ever really love someone that you really are in love with someone, there's not a whole lot that you need to do, you could constantly are thinking about the other person and what you can do for that person. It's not about you all the time. I think maybe a change in your own mindset to consider the other person is what will keep the love alive.
Great answer. Any kind of morning routine that gets you grounded for the rest of the day?
Yes, well, I do this routinely. I get up in the morning. And first thing I do is make a pot of coffee, sit outside and I learn Spanish, English and German for two to three hours. I answer my emails and my social media. Whatever that I need to do on there, I answer questions on Cora. Yeah, I do that work an hour or two. And then I get ready. And I go to work. You know. So like, for instance, today, I mean, I do this sometimes as well, I'll get up at three o'clock in the morning as opposed to four. But, you know, if I get up at four, then I go to work by nine. And I've already put in a good half a day for my hobbies.
Absolutely. Wow. Hey, cura, I answer a couple questions on there, too. It's kind of like a ninja marketing. Do you agree with that?
Well, it's, you're going to use it properly build what's called your search engine optimization, which means you got to put some something regarding yourself and your website in there. If you're going to do that. I did it mainly start to improve my writing skills and to offer something, you know, yeah, I always have something that I feel like I can offer to somebody else. And it was kind of addictive as your you know, as you start to create answers and PB to see the people are reading the answers and so forth. I really got pretty heavy into it. From January till about the middle of March, and I don't answer so much every day. But you have answered maybe 200. And so question Oh, and
Yeah, you know, what, thousand or 2500 views a week?
Yeah, it's really cool. It's like random people follow you like, Oh, you like my answer. All right. Next, we want to do with some more,
I don't have so many followers. And that really wasn't about it. And for me, no, it was about something and offering some help to people. I can also use that for my website, the answers that I created and make attachments then to my website. And that builds, like I said, back into SEO,
you can any favorite books, blogs, or podcasts that you love to to look at and recommend others?
Well, I have to tell you how old I am.
Sounds like you're pretty old. You know,
I gotta tell you, you know, when I became a chiropractor, we didn't even have internet at that time. You know what I mean? So I'm not so much into electronics, I love this cell phone that I've got. It's got all kinds of neat little applications on it and so forth. But, you know, let's do a lingo. Yeah, that's a cool little app that you can learn new languages on, and you learn pretty quickly with it. As far as books, I mean, without trying to sound pretentious. My my hobby or mind my interest, really, when I was young was history. And it's what I was very good at. I haven't picked up a book a couple of years ago, called war and peace. And I thought, Okay, I'm going to read this book, because everybody expects you to read war and peace. Yeah, it's out that it was really kind of a cool book. And it was a lot, it dealt very deeply into the history of the Russian kingdoms and how they interacted with the rest of Europe. And you know, that it's nothing like what it is today. You know, I mean, Russia was like, like a regular European country. At some point, you know what I'm saying? And so it helps you see other cultures and understand history in a way differently, maybe then you've been taught. So I'd say maybe war and peace of the books that I have read, at least in the last five years would be my favorite. Okay,
that's a leadership made. Leadership matters. We talked about like Russia changing to what it is today.
Yeah, sure does.
Well, how can people
find out more information about you? Well, you can go to my website, I have several actually. One of them is www that in my partner hates it when I say www pick that up from George W. Bush
is not even necessary. I don't think anymore, everybody knows www.
It's intelligent buying software. com. And the other one is tilson specific methods calm now, these are two separate websites that have kind of been blended into one. The reason I have multiple websites is because the the changes in the business models that I was trying and practicing they tilson specific methods is geared more towards the the actual method that I developed the intelligent and software is about program and about the franchise system, then, of course, we have my own personal website that is basically just a communication pathway between my patients and myself.
Any closing remarks, anything that we we missed that you wanted to talk
Yeah, we're, we're expanding very quickly. We don't have enough chiropractors in Europe, please call me. Okay, we need as many chiropractors as we can get, we need to change the systems over here, especially in Germany. It's not an accepted profession, at the particular moment or recognized profession. I mean, it's accepted, but it's not recognized as a standalone profession, the only way we're going to change that is to offer proper chiropractic here, the only way we're going to do that is by getting guys to come in, offer it. So the public demands it. Say only way we're going to change things here in Germany, I'm sure there's some other European countries that are the same way. I mean, it's kind of like we were back in the 30s. You know, so what will the only way that we're going to change is by expansion, give me a call, send me an email, if you're looking for a job, if you're looking for a different type of system, something that is not so stressful, something is that is not so expensive. Contact me, we're going to be opening up in the next year 94 new practices, we don't have the doctors were NATO. Okay,
real quick, the cup, I don't want numbers. As far as company sensation, people can come and they'll say, Hey, I can make a living I can I can have a you know, a life that's, that's, that's going to be good. I'm not going to be a poor popper, like some of these chiropractors in America do. True.
True, okay. So you want to know what the what the offer is that we're, we're, I mean, if you want to
type of details you can Other than that, I was just trying to be vague about it, like, you're not going to be poor, you know, like us in school when you're not gonna make any money.
Well, during the training phase, which is, like I said, two to three months will be offering 3000 euros per month, then it will go to 4000. We base our raises, and it's not bonuses, okay, I don't believe in the bonus system, I've been on those myself, and get unrealistic goals. And you know, the bonus comes, and then, you know, you did all this extra work and got paid very little, I want to give you something secure. So the raises that we give are based on performance and performance is based on patient satisfaction, we help calculate patient satisfaction in two ways. Number one, we see how many referrals unsolicited referrals are coming in. And we look at patient retention, patient retention, we expect to go down 20% per year. So we don't count that against it. But what we look at at is how many patients from when you started, are still patients. Yeah, and our goal is to maintain at least 80%. So when we get to 80%, retention and 80% patient satisfaction, you'll be earning 9000 euros per month, which is pretty significant. My goal is to get the other within 36 months, and then let you buy your own practice with money that you've generated and not be in debt. And I'm assuming you've got systems in place so that you know how to retain these patients,
so that you can reach these bonuses. I mean, these milestones. Yeah,
actually, exactly. So part of it does have to do with how you speak with patients and how you carry yourself. So we do have some challenges there, especially for the younger generations that have grown up on the computer. And you know, they don't have a lot of social skills because they haven't needed them they can they can hide behind a computer and saying do whatever they want. See what I mean. So when you come in 36 months ago,
yeah, 36 months. So we do have training videos that you can watch, we will be having a weekly training sessions, not only for the receptionist staff, but for doctors as well. Yeah. So my goal is to get you to own your own office and earn a decent income without the stress of today's model that was developed in the 80s. That just doesn't work anymore. So I want to show you there's a better way you can actually do it. Don't have to to feel so stressed in this profession. guys are doing something fantastic. Just have to do it in a way that smart.
Not hard. Dr. Wilson, Dr. Shane,
that correct? Thank you sure. Yeah.
All right, man. Well, you have a fantastic day. I really appreciate you, you coming on.
Alright. Well, thank you for having me.
Dr. Children, thank you so much. I can't imagine what it would take to create my own system. And then to put it into some kind of computer program. So hat tip to you, sir. And you learn the language I've been here is just three years still haven't really learned enough. But you did. So congratulations on that as well. And I look forward to following you on Facebook and kind of keeping track how things are going. I appreciate your honesty about a bear biomechanics and how to turn this profession around to keep it relevant. And to keep it growing with all the other professions out there. Dr. respective net slash for one trough tips coming up next.
Thank you for listening to the podcast, a doctor's perspective. Thank you for writing reviews on wherever you listen to it. ranking is five stars. Hopefully Listen, you all know I got a book out. I've been working on a version 2.0 right now if you buy it, send me an email with the receipt and I can send you five bonus chapters. It'll just be this long PDF, but we're gonna have some nerve stretches creating and executing a budget ways to cut expenses optimal calorie consumption calculator fit directly for you and some ideas about fasting so if you want some of these bonus chapters before they released in version 2.0 just send me that receipt via email and I'll get them over to you as always we got some t shirt designs for the logo for chiropractic there's also a by host a cup of coffee upgraded that it's on the main web page and lastly Stay tuned a secret project will be coming out definitely go to a doctor's perspective. NET top right there are all the social media icons pick which one you love the follow most friend me like me say hello, I'll definitely respond back.
travel tip this week when you're traveling, especially in the big city that has subways, our buses, very big tourist areas wallet does not go in your back pocket that goes in your front pocket or in a man bag and it for a lady kind of the same thing. Make sure your purse is zip if you can lock it. I don't know what locking it but I think criminals like to what whoever's easiest that's really going to go after seeing people put their phone in their pocket and it gets picked out of that as well. So just be careful and those big crowded areas.
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hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media, and visit the show notes on a doctor's perspective. net to see all the references from today's guests. A sincere thank you in advance. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire given you a doctor's perspective.
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