E 159 Chiropractic Radiologist DACBR Cliff Tao Should You Do It

a doctors perspective cliff tao dacbr e 159 chiro rad
Dr. Cliff Tao, DC, DACBR talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor's Perspective Podcast.

What is a chiropractic radiologist? Let’s discuss job outlook, day to day responsibilities and compare it to the MD program. Dr. Cliff Tao is a DACBR with a sense of humor.

What is the reason to become a DACBR (Diplomat of Chiropractic Board of Radiology)?

What is a typical clinical day look like for a chiropractic radiologist?
Can you work at a hospital or orthopedic office?
How did DACBR become a thing in chiropractic to begin with?

Listen to some of the crazy past jobs Dr. Tao has had and learn what to avoid?

Dr. Cliff Tao DACBR also explains how he gets paid, and how we can pay or get reimbursed for sending our films to a chiropractic radiologist.

Should you take the extra 3 years and learn a ton about MRI and x-ray?

How much marketing goes into growing a radiology based practice?
Can you read from across the country or only in your state?
Who should you expect to get referrals from?

Hear how many reports and films a hospital MD would read in a day versus what Dr. Tao does regularly? This is also a reason you should have a good grasp on films so you can make an educated reading on films taken outside your own office.

Book: The 5 Love Languages

Show notes can be found at http://www.adoctorsperspective.net/159 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.

Full Transcript of the Interview (it will have grammatical errors and mistakes). Just Click to expand. Thanks audioburst!
E 159 Chiropractic Radiologist DACBR Cliff Tao Should You Do It

00:00:06 – 00:05:15

Episode one hundred and fifty nine chiropractic realities back ball should you do it? Just trophy and today we're Dr, clip? House perspective. Two thousand seventeen and eighteen podcast awards nominated host and bestselling author on Amazon as we get a behind the curtain look at all types of doctor and guests specialties. Let's hear doctors perspective. Hello Hello. Hello Welcome back to doctors. podcast thanks for tuning. In. A self promotion if you're looking to learn Spanish Chinese or even English for yourself or for your kids, most of your kids are the coloring books are live on Amazon check those out. Very Fun Passion Project for me. It's animals. Insects is water based. It's mammals from Africa, and Australia Etcetera the holidays are coming up schools are online for a lot of people is might be a fun way to have activity for your young as well as educational. Alright well, today on the show, we have Akbar the diplomat of Carbon Border Radiology Dr Cliff Tau. He's a chiropractor who decided to do a another three years two hundred. All about xrays is CDs excetera. We're going to discuss things like can you get a job at a hospital with this? What does the day to day look like potentially come fees that you can charge he gives them fun stories about past jobs that he's had advice on. Should you do it? Should you not what to expect and even some marketing? A lot of radiologists are kind of introverted. So. Thought of having to put yourself out there could be a little scary but he gives us some good tips on that. By the way if you listen to the MINNIE's odes I, think there's been a few good ones especially episodes sixty one where we're talking about the thousand dollars challenge. If you haven't listened to take less than ten minutes, check it out and see if you can earn or save an extra thousand dollars this month for investing. More details there Vinnie help practice wise coaching wise etc. Let me know DM me on Facebook instagram or on the web page on the top right is all the icons to reach out. Well, let's jump into the interview. All the show notes and transcripts can be found at a doctor's perspective dot net slash one, five nine. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain. Laugh Germany and California today on the show, we got a Canadian native who's pretty much been in California for forever and He is a deck which is like a Chiropractor who decided they love x-rays and Mri and just went for another three years and earned everything they could. So he'll be our first guest. Dr. Cliff Towel. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you justice a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me not a problem I'm excited. We haven't had a bar on the program before and I saw you a long time ago I, guess at this point forward eighteen has been a while Yup and a good lecture actually. Knows memorize x rays can be kinda boring but he was able to present fun cases in really teach some of the things that we should look out for and sprinkled in some humor and things. So I really appreciate your teaching style. Okay. So we are practically go to school for Nichols the four years give us the background. What does it stand for? Why would you do it? Just kind of the nitty gritty of that, and then we'll get into more fun aspects and some more fun questions. But first, let's just let the guardians no because they're not all chiropractors what. A, deck more. Sure sure no problem. Could take some time. So let me know if I'm going. To overboard so The backfire is D. A. C. B. are so officially, it stands for diplomat of the American Tower Practic Board of Radiology. In. A bunch of different diplomats and they're all specialties within chiropractic. He could have sports, medicine diplomats, neurology diplomats as you know. Ours is or minus in radiology in a just as a side joke since. You mentioned it might be a little bit lighter. You don't want to I started my residency. I showed up on campus at lic scene. said he cliff? Bar stands for. In. Yeah. Of course you know. Why would I not know what sense for you know like a diplomat of the American Carpet for Radiology now? No no, that's not sit down. Sit down. What answered says for don't adjust can barely read. Like Oh, Gos- right. There we go. Yeah. Go first day out of my three years as what they told me literally the first day Oatman is going to be a long three years. So. Yeah. It's Kinda paints a picture of what most not all Akbar's like you know we we are so entrenched in engulfed in radiology industry that a lot of us don't adjust some of us.

00:05:15 – 00:10:02

Do you know I don't personally might patches is all radiology, but there's some of us that kind of deal combine practice of a regular practice practice with patients but they do radiology at other times as well. So kind of gives you a more options. I guess when when you get out there in. Practice but very different options to so actually a friend of Mine Ben Styles he's attacked bar he heated both for a while and did very well at both think at one point he got sick and was almost a little bit. I wouldn't say disabled, but he just could not adjust practice any morning decided to just go fulltime radiology. So it's nice to kind of have that backup. You know it's not that physically demanding to the attack far. You know we just sit or stand now stand up. Stand do a work in walk around a little bit but you know we don't have to be. Doing a lot of main Leyla shoulder. Yeah. Unlikely that the blow shoulder so does I I like it just because it's it's different in it came very I don't WanNa say easy but almost naturally to me, my dad is a medical off no, he practiced for. Forty years or something as a radiologist of Ottawa Canada. In so I don't know if I was born to be a radiologist or in he never has. This is interesting. I thought Oh man, you know I don't know why just Kinda gravitate towards his x-rays in college. Undergrad in kinesiology and we had like a little bit of X. Ray. They chose x Ray year they're. Like Oh that is that is pretty cool. But I wasn't thinking of my dad I asked him later Dustin I said Hey. Did you like. You know show me some x rays of something when I was a baby or any now? No you didn't do any of that. He was more of kind of a hands off dad he but he wanted me to do whatever I felt was right or what? What I enjoy the most it's like it doesn't matter what it is. You can be a chiropractor or can be a whatever an accountant her go no medicine. If you want as long as you that's something that you like and you enjoy that you know you find great fulfillment in and that's what you do ask Abed. Yeah of course, it was with my mom that was like not your. Car You're going to be a doctor real doctor Oricon. But outside you. Know? So so yeah, I really gravitated towards the X ray or early on in why? Then I wanted to practice school more because I like sports medicine stuff and I wasn't at that point I wasn't released sure if I could do radiology and it was Kinda so far off. Second you know I'm not going to medical school I guess I won't be radiologist like my dad but but that was okay. So I went into carpet school because I like sports, medicine athletes, and you know. Kind of getting the optimal performance sports, car practic and stuff like that, and then I realized that there were radiologists within CAPAC outside Oh man. So then I kind of into it, but for me it was. Too Hard On. School but you almost at least for me I'd like to doing it. You know my residency taking all my only job is again a pass these board exams you know, I wanna not only pass by a WanNa be one of the better ones or I want actually know stuff that can help people in the end. So everything else was secondary know. So And the things that you would look at her day to day life of a bar send you xrays Moore is everything's normal. Here's what I find. I don't WanNA liability for some reason to read my own x Ray. So I send them to you what what is the practice look like? So, for me and you know we have different within our tight Akbar community, we have very different practices. So my practice probably definitely ninety nine percent or higher chiropractors a couple medical facilities you know will send me some because also car proctor on staff. And a problem, ninety percent is playing x Ray in of all the xrays I don't know seventy to eighty percent spine saw lot of spine raise but we get other stuff too. We get a lot of spine emory is in other things too.

00:10:02 – 00:15:01

We have this new technology. We have a Lotta upper cervical guys in my practice they have their own CVC. Machine, it's like a little mini C., T. They haven't office we do 'em rise and we do some other. I call them weird thing. 'cause I don't read them personally for example, either abdomen T. from a chiropractor that already you know I get regular experts from him but it was I. think it was his business partners wife or something she's had. Severe abdominal pain, and for some reason, the report was real nonspecific and so her doctor would wouldn't do anything. Well, it's just nonspecific. It's Ali benign and just have to wait it out and classic Tell you what I have a medical radiologists who will read it actually I forgot medicine they happened licensed in the state where the imaging study was performed. For Counted informal opinion with my medical but also sent it to my body guy. So body for realities everything outside of a bones joints, we call it body. Okay. BODY AKBAR UP IN CANADA Steve Baba in a Senate him it. Hey, this is. History. Said Oh. Yeah. That's a I. Don't know what it is, but it's this this this said okay in medical allergists was like you know I can't give you a former report but I think it's this in. So I gave the guy both things and he's like you know what you're. You're part was right. So they ended up having surgery and head to have it taken out. increasing pain a huge mass I mean. You anyone could see this huge mass in the abdomen you just had to. Say it was the nine or if it was something that was they need have surgery for so because the dock bar that I, my body back Bar said, Oh, you know it could be these things and one of these things as we all know until you do some kind of further analysis than they went in and did the surgeon in a they took it out. That's what I thought was pretty cool when we were studying in school was never really. Definitively say you have this this or this, but based on the all the history can say, okay, it's probably one of these three things. Now, your doctor can order these tests and find out which of the three it is. Thank you have a good day and they're all cancer so good luck. Wasn't a fracture guys. There was a growth. Yeah. This is more serious than just you can crack back. But yes. Sometimes, we can tell what it is but a lot of times like as radiologists we don't we don't rely as much on clinical exam findings either because we don't get it or because we get a little snippet of it we get what we need and we have a different process. If you want to review the case we charge differently for that McAfee, want us to do a case review. We're looking at all the imaging and we're compiling all this. Data together non imaging data we can do that too but can be a little bit more expensive 'cause it takes more time a spine plain film is going to be a lot faster than seventy two slides of the spy on to Oh. Yeah for sure. Yeah. It's interesting. You mentioned that there I mean there's so much data out there actually this in terms of how much time it takes for people read these things you know from start to finish no before with. Start passing it was just plain x Ray hardcopy Nov get everything in the mail. So it would take forever all-male went to appeal box so I physically had to go to the post. Office. The mail about the office yet every single because I didn't know when was coming in any day you could have one hundred xrays pop in you like all right. It's a busy afternoon. Yeah. Another day nothing. Yeah. So it's super easy. It comes on my computer at the time spent per rays is a lot less now just because digital you dictate everything anyway don't you and now dictate everything voice dictation so much easier and more affordable now to and more accurate. So most of US dictate I'd that was when technology I I was hesitant to to kind of embrace just because I had. I tried it early on just did not work well in is actually slower all. I to do that doing. Yeah, you dictate your notes in practice. Now, we don't have that kind of clinic. We do the notes, but it's not like a no shortage. Yeah. So yeah, it's much better to it's not perfect but you know it's definitely fast. I dictated a book once you did yeah it's like a trick of the trade. You can see on my screen this black book about Chinese dinner. Okay I don't want to write all that down. I was like I just need to get it out of my head and I. Just talked and talked and talked, and there's transcription services. So whatever it was it was it's free or like you know ten bucks a month or something like that. So anyway, I got it and then just edit it and put things together that around on his ass as much faster than the previous ones so.

00:15:03 – 00:20:00

That's the Chinese business spoke in the back there. The re-did the senator. Workday you learn a few things and. A job because of its you know what I hope somebody like you know what if they can be helped maybe should just write this down while I was in the midst of it all. So it was fun passion project as they call them. Okay. Deck Bar it means something to you. It means something to me but and this is I don't want it to be offensive or anything like that. But we need to think of long term here. Do you get to work at hospitals? Do you get the respect of the medical doctors? Do they still look at you like? You're starts the contractor. We don't need your help when real cases what's what's kind of job outlook? Do you have with this well? You know that's a good question. A real good question. It's it's a question that I didn't even visit when I was looking to get into radiology and just a quick snippet of how unprepared was you know I I knew I. WanNa do anyway I knew I loved it and it would be natural for me much in early but I did not look in the job prospects menu you could teach but you know teaching to me is hard fulltime especially in the I don't think it pays is as good as private practice. So is always assumed I could get a job but you know the job prospects are actually not great. I don't I don't want to. Dissuade any. Carpet actors or students, carpeting students who are looking into radiology but out encourage them to do their homework unlike me. So you could get a job teaching full time you started private practice. If you have good business sense which I did not have, you could make it but you really need to have good business sense I still don't think I have good business sense but I think. I'm okay now I think it I joe I think it took me about ten years to Kinda. To get things comfortable. I think it's pretty comfortable. Now are there enough of Y'all are yesterday not enough towards easy to get clients because now you're reliant on networking and hobnobbing with a bunch of chiropractors or whoever so the same you can send them anywheres now that digital. Licensing but like down the street from where I worked Taroko the man who wrote the books yeah. Down the street where I worked the. Through them because it was quicker. And it's like, why would I use anybody else the man is there but you know I was like he wrote the book. So obviously, he's going to more clients than a lot of people budget didn't even though is like any other business you really gotta get out there and stop the pavements and really recruit people to send them to you. So many don't even want to send them out regardless like no, I'm Trina I can do it. Why would I pay somebody else to do this? Exactly. So just to give you a little more perspective. I heard there's about in the US maybe thirty thousand Cairo's. So maybe in the world, there's double that or closer double. So maybe fifty, sixty, thousand, Cairo's and. Bars there's about three, hundred fifty in in. That's in the history of mankind Justin. Okay. Many of us around I'm. Yes, there is a lot of potential eighty but you know as you know, our profession is a has a wide variance of car back in in my ray on your practice I. Don't say no to anybody. You know if you're a chiropractor, you got xrays or any imaging, we'll take it. We'll help read it. I don't care why you took the x rays, I don't care what kind of technique you use. In give us give you our opinion in. That's why maybe I've been able to track some Cairo's at not think of of using it. Akbar, to be honest I, we've kind of had a bad rap reclusive society. You know most of us don't like to talk to people in its honestly for some it's why they went into radiology so they wouldn't have to top to patients holiday isn't it stereotype of most radiologists that Kayla? Basement in a dark room is in the dark room and. That's that's there. Are Comfort. Zone. All Day and it's true that in you know I forgot to mention it your question about work in hospitals and stuff. You know what would the medical guys think of us? So I did a after my residency ended six month fellowship at a hospital. Medical Center local hospital, Teaching Hospital here. Wonderful Experience Justin I just learned so many things in everyone was very nice to me when I'm packing them face to. Very welcoming. But I hear rumors after I leave the room or turn the corner in Bill Kakulo. But about me like, why am I here like I think I'm trying to steal their business you don't understand how. The how Unin pack plan to you you know.

00:20:00 – 00:25:03

So a Muslim seem the questions right? I mean that's that would be getting the questions right so again, maybe there's some knowledge there. Yes. So most of them are pretty nice about it. You know once I frame it like Oh you know I'm not here to take off jobs away from you. I'm here to help my car packers because either well Vacaville but further, no doc bars kinda started because way back in the day you know medical radiologists or most medical rayon would you know? Would a touch higher packed with a ten foot pole nester? So we had to come up with her own thing that was little more at the coal than us reading ourselves something that we didn't rely on the Medical Profession for Thankfully did have some medical who who could see our struggles in they helped say they taught that early backfires at home. This is what you do and stuff like that and that's how we got a Akbar started. Now you know we don't. It's a little more friendly with with with the medical profession. Friendly and so a lot of them want to use us because it's more income for them along. We still see the biases here in there but not nearly as much as we did back in the forties release potential to maybe get hired on in some kind of radiology practice when you can get you a bunch of spine films and then you don't have the risk of being an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah there is potential I'd say it's pretty rare a most of us were just within the chiropractic world. and. There's but there's a few of us that work at Larger Radiology groups where they're like one or maybe two chiropractic radiologists out of a group of ten twenty medical radiologists. So it is possible from Your House the right? Yes. I work from home a fulltime a Lotta of Akbar's do that practice especially now it's over. Yeah, very low overhead. Profitable Yeah you start you should never have. A month where you're in the red right because the. Need is a nice computer. A couple will hardware things in. The to go. So it's easy to set up practice I take a little harder at least it was for me to kind of convince Cairo's to semi their x rays. How does that work? Do you get? You just charge cash and they just have to eat it? Are you get the bill insurance for reading it or because you didn't take it? So riads how that work. In the US, with you Bill Insurance for x Ray, it's a global code and the code includes taking and reading the X. Ray. So Carlos are build insurance global code and we could split it that way. Oh, you just bill the technical component for taking the X ray and all bill the professional but you know the professional mount first of all is very small and so was a joke regardless. Know it's not even really worth my time to bill it out. In second of all, they build the global component, they're also looking at the X. Ray it's not like they're blindly sending the x ray you know. So for those reasons, we typically do a second opinion report and we just build a doctor cash for so you know, I let you build global component because you've taken the ray you've Kinda. At least looked at it. So that's the first opinion even though there might not be documentation for it in will provide our second opinion you can copy a report if you want to provide it as. Supporting documentation for your claim to the Insurance Company need to you know I don't care. That's typically how we do it. The other part is that I believe I'm not sure are pretty sure that a lot of my Cairo's are cash only. So they just build a patient whatever in some dough bill, the patients some build a patient is same mount are charge of that's why I was GonNa say did they just pass the bill on like look charged fifty to take the x Ray Oak liffey their charges forty so I make ten bucks. Give. Him All the money and I don't charge the patient twice for the same film. Yeah. Some of them do that some charter more solemn charge a little bit less. Cover your cost and make some money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know got charged double. That's a little more than I would expect but no, this ain't they eighties buddy. Yeah, I mean it Colorado. It was like twenty eight bucks. Maybe, thirty six total total total for an x Ray I was like this isn't even worth my time. Some of them were like, no that's part of the exam. We don't even there's no extra fees you can't get reimbursed this and that and you're like man terrible. Yeah it was tough for me. That's why whenever he always send them out I was like. I gotTA lose money to send these things out really need a second opinion. You know that's crazy. Yeah it's it's ridiculous. I don't know how got so low I. think it used to be higher was massive it was like a big profit generator for so many people.

00:25:04 – 00:30:05

Yeah. So to say like that, but it was it was everybody gets an X. Ray and hey, why not make fifty bucks on it too. Yeah. Yeah. What drew my fellowship at the hospital some of the resins related yet back in the day they'll get paid easy eighty dollars per x Ray just to read it while I'm like, oh my gosh, and so I don't know what happened because now with a single digits maybe double digits. Lucky. Angrily gotTa plow through these things but you know in a hospital, they do huge volumes you know hundreds of x a day that's I think that's how they can afford it. But even within radiology x rays kind of known as you've just gotTa do it in you make your money off the is and see tees and and other imaging. Words of wisdom I got from some seminars that anytime you get an MRI, all way or anything just always read it yourself as well because if it came from hospital and they saw five hundred that day and it was residents reading some of them, you don't know if you can trust what was said. So they were just just look at it maybe it's accurate but maybe they missed something and maybe you just need to give them a complicate. Could you do a second opinion? Maybe. Going on. that a lot or a ton and I I think everyone knows they they should look at these images. But so are I consider my practice more of a second opinion practice yet in one of the things I say is ecorse. You'll look the xrays or emery any kind of imaging when you get it, don't just rely on on the report in his for that reason you know you don't know who these people are reading it in. Know to be honest, there are companies of their Ryoji grumbly shady in now now, with digital stuff that that study can go anywhere in the World Justin. Full disclosure I used to work for one of these companies will Jaydee I would read it in medical radiologists would sign off on it in like it's a little bit shady they pay us both for it but not very much by the way but then what happened was a said. A, cliff, we're going to stop using you and these other Akbar's because we have. We have another group that we're GONNA contract with in a like really. You know what? Why would you use a? Medical Rail group like why would you go back to Papua New Guinea? and. What's what's the deal in like? Yeah they're just you know I think they're in the Philippines in he said, they're just cheaper to be honest business decision a high cheaper than what you're paying us in. Oh Yeah. Can I can I talk about numbers fees Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you want I didn't want to get in there because it's your thing but yet you. CARE. So I think I was getting paid four or five dollars to read each x ray series. I would get man sometimes one hundred as a day was crazy. So I kind of felt like a medical radiologists 'cause I couldn't do my normal Don't get it out in every report was like one two, maybe three sentences. To make a reasonable amount of money in it said. Oh. Yeah. These guys I think you know it sounds crazy but impre- sure. They said they're going to do it for one dollar per X. Ray In they were nice to meet I knew some of the people in upper management the Adnan, office in If you want, you know you can take all the volume IOS about a thousand xrays month or or more couple thousand maybe. But you'd have to take it at a dollar per x ray study might. You know. Things. You know. Already at four or five dollars house might lowest quality work. You know I can't imagine gone down a dollar per study quality. Stuff happens you know unbeknownst probably have templates computer just click ABC that's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah. So it's yeah it's terrible another way even if you have good, you know US trained whatever y'all are in the US and you know the studies not going overseas or wherever he's Corrales are busy then so busy Muslim, you know the the industry is saturated. Or actually under saturated, they need more radiologists because of all increased volume not now because of the coronavirus typically when they don't want to educate them that within keep their fees higher because there's not enough of them. So. It's a game just to give idea of how much they read. Comfortable rains about forty maybe fifty x rays or cases. Maybe M Ryan see in there somewhere you know that's an eight hour day in minimal breaks a typical day at least one I've seen with my medical friends is about two hundred a day. So it's almost it's four times as much as I do in.

00:30:05 – 00:35:04

Some of their xrays easier because they see more extremities but some of them are very hard by they have more complex cases and so they don't spend it. They can't spend a lot of time meeting these x-rays at least in the US. Is Not a great healthcare system and that's one of the issues that there's just too much work for them to do in the reimbursement. is so low that they have to do it super fast and the reports aren't GonNa be detailed and is like everything was normal that's it. Oh Yeah. Just normal the normal stuff we have to put it everything's normal just get out of here like that somebody else deal with the paperwork I'm not doing all that it would love normal studies all day long they'd be finished early. Way I was in China working in a hospital and they got paid better than the Philippines, but you could definitely see what they're willing to work for. So it's a no brainer to them that they got like a dollar a film. It could very well be like, yeah, we're living good really maybe it's a little bit lower than we want, but we're going to have the volume. We'll have a good life. And everything have by a car by house isn't going to school but. I was having to read I'm is everybody really every patient we got in there got an mit it was just their protocol. Oh, you got neck pain doesn't matter get anymore is. You got low back pain doesn't matter you have. All eat it. So many times I just need an x ray there's no clinical need for the RT Mirai. They, call it a Martini in. Germany but. So. So they. Always get an MRI and I'm like who? Why don't just order what asked Of course it was money but yeah. So. Anyway. So it was like we'd always get them, and so I ended up having to take more classes. In. Marai. A place out of New York because I was like I am in apt to to really read these going to report I'm looking like. Axial I don't I. Don't I guess that's bolts. Yeah. Okay. That one's obvious. is it putting the nerve? Maybe I don't know. So I had to learn this stuff because it wasn't. You know you never see ins practice and then finally at the seat every day I gotta get better this. Yeah Anyway. Well, good for you for taking extra time to do that hats off often you guys it's good to learn a couple more things out there. I think I think motive changes was my favorite. I'm not GONNA lie OH. Yeah. I don't know if you like them or not but I always thought that was a pretty cool finding and you're like, okay, there's a little bit of clinical significance and yeah. Yeah. We we actually one of our speakers, our annual Akbar meeting several years ago Michael. T motoric Oh look at that. Yeah. We always have at least one or two metal corral has come to our Akbar meetings and. I remember one funny thing. He said, you know just kind of going along the same vein as you talk about with is. In in Medical Radiology. Like you know they still use x Ray, but you know kind of the more advanced guys only read x Ray because they have to someone to read it but they really love doing emery more. So when he was speaking to US Justin, he's like I think someone asks what is the role of extra in his practice? How do they use it did what indications whatever is like, oh Spine X. Ray. Yeah, we we do it, but it's really just to make sure there's a spine there and then. We're missing a bone. Problem Okay. But then in the end, they get an MRI. Anyway you know whether. Or Not right. It's just their mindset. Extra. Okay. Yeah. Normal. Let's do Mariah because whatever they have or something everybody had a bolt or two or three arthritis. Sometimes you'd see stuff and I was like. To treat this. I'm supposed to treat this. This thing looks like it's going to paralyze you. There were no option. They had no other option. So you just modify your technique and then you start realizing like, wow, chiropractic is so powerful. The. WAPPING on everybody of course, because you know you gotTA use appropriate techniques but I was really surprised to see what can respond and what was still safe after looking at MRI or like seeing stuff and you're like, you don't hurt. No, you don't have any kind of SCIATICA know. Sure. Yeah that's good for you because. You look like you'd be worse case. Yeah. Now that's that's a good point. We don't have especially with extra. We have virtually no correlation with clinical symptoms or how they present 'em is a little bit better, but it's definitely not perfect. So yeah, I get that question time like what is this on the Brian or the x? Ray. I'm like it's nothing you know don't worry about it. It's IT'S A. It's not normal, but you'll because you told me the patient virtually has no symptoms there than you don't need to do anything now concentrate on whatever you WANNA do and they'll be fine but don't don't focus on this one. This one finding it looks like it's a tumor or whatever.

00:35:04 – 00:40:01

Do you have any marketing advice for someone that's in your position, but maybe just getting out just graduating yeah you I actually do a at least for the past couple of years I did look a little informal lunch and learn at our annual Dak. Barbie in so. My disclaimer is just how I I've done it. You know there's as to do this to be honest with took me ten years to get here. So hopefully, you want to wait that long you know the biggest thing and I know you've heard it in everyone's heard it, but it's I think it's true. Is that relationships matter and it was hard for me to accept it this because you mentioned earlier Akbar's we don't really form relationships easily since we don't are in here because we don't like talking to people but you talk to people I mean. I. Think I am normally. right on the border between intro and an extrovert. So it's a little bit easier for me but I I would imagine most Akbar's are introverted. So it's Kinda hard for them to get out there and you know meet people lot easier now because there's social media and stuff like that in a and that's I would say. What am I my big areas is just being active on on Face Boca on Lincoln in more specifically you know people still want to get to know you so that that groundwork of of relationships still applies within social media in you know how to get there. Yourself. You don't get into a conversation on facebook within a group or just on some random post eventually, people get to know you. Linked and stuff's fun when you put the case sometimes those are fun. Yeah. Yeah. So that's you know just to kind. Make it look like I'm an expert you know I don't like really call myself an expert because there's so many of us out there but you know at least I don't know I. Don't like coming off being real sales. To be on us that I do those. So I can get a little bit more business, but it's also. To help her out you know they send me nothing ever? No, that's fine. You know as hope can help them out if there is a similar situation with their patients, I would think if you're coming out to, you could hire a firm especially if you like the introvert, you don't want to deal with social media or whatever. You could hire a firm that your goal was to recruit other chiropractors to send films to you I'm sure there's plenty of people that were left to take your money and. Social Media and some Google and whatever the coach that for you just a little bit effort and a little bit of time they'll get you busy. Yeah. I should do that like. Operate under a pseudonym. Oh, the new dat bar here. Now. You got the experience you don't want to rookie. Vet. Charge. It charge a new Akbar. Their name kind of pretend them. I don't know I wouldn't do. That takes a lot of time in I'd get all confused. Who's WHO's facebook account I'm under The wrong. The wrong thing but our Jason. That's a big thing. I'd say you know for new buyers just force yourself to get out there it is about forming relationships if you want. Do it my way. Let people get to know you try to not come off as being? So I was like this I cared about why took the xrays you know even though? They wanted to send business. You really need to take this x ray and then they get pissed off. Say. Not What I'm here for my well, you know site I felt like I was the experts would tell them. Oh you actually don't need this x Ray in see one rotating left or not. You know we don't get too crazy with a and things like that. You know were more about we do both of them have policy type of report, but we also report a little bit more than average endymion online and. Will will measure things too. But yeah. It's out say that you know form relationships be a little more open to that side of profession or the other side of where you are. So my philosophy is really just you know if you're a carpenter, I'm a chiropractor were all here to help patients you know in but if you have imaging, he unpressured your education experiences is less than mine. So at the polly best. At you know I, realize it probably will work for all offices. But best case scenario, you probably have all your xrays at least a double check Senator Akbar what's your website? Oh, it's a cliff Tau DC AKBAR DOT COM. I can send you a link later it'll definitely be in the show notes just wanted people to know about it real quick since we're. Winding down here before you go.

00:40:01 – 00:45:01

One of the questions I like to ask is on reasons because so many we'll get divorced or have a terrible family life because their focus too much business. Are you gonNA take any trips vacations etc outside of Corona virus timeframe, and then how do you keep the love alive with your spouse and kid and all that we're kind of wisdom do you have force? As a great question, I mean. It's been hours on that topic Tustin to. It is tough but like you mentioned, you know it's hard to keep family relationships. Maintaining them when you're your own business owner, anyone do things right for your business. But yet, of course you WanNa do things right for your family to And radiologists is hard too because the residency was hard I mean I know a lot of people that started the residency that just could not finish it. Some people like me actually I got married during my residency in everyone said it was a mistake because I had to take so much time off for this and that eventually that divorce by the way. Now remarried, you know I will say. There's one thing I I think it was actually one of your questions you know if there's a book or something now recommend. For personal life. I probably read it too late but this book called the five love languages want us to get one of those amazing when I read it at the time. To be honest, you don't need to read the whole book if you weren't. One of the Clippers online. There's no the five love languages in a my personal take that guys typically have a couple. that. We receive in give a but at least in my experience, it seems like women all tend to have five you have to have to satisfy. At all times. In varying ratios or whatever. But yeah. So I didn't know I had no idea about all these things in how different people were. So that's a good check for be know Oh am I spending time with a spouse my family my buying gifts might listening to them talk to them all those things in going back to more professional realm you'll can I take vacations? You know I'm all about taking vacations Justin. Digital, it is in you know. So we have A. Couple of part time staff have a few part time associate Akbar's Remotely everything comes into my office than to get shipped out depending on overflow and how much work I have to do. So it's very easy much easier now than it was, you know fifteen twenty years ago. To, send, stuff out. The only issues when we have a radiology meeting in urban wants to go the rocky me I'm like who's not going and who wants to do some extra work so That's a little bit hard but yeah, it's it's not hard to take vacation. You just have to have the processes in place just like running clinical practice right have. Properly trained staff it's. Almost easier with radiology because we don't have as much staff to deal with in the didactic mindset is much narrower than being practiced. You only have to deal with one little sliver of practiced, but you're not going to be on the slopes of Colorado and then be like, Hey, babe, I, got a spend three hours reading some films. Fun I'll be back later to get some chocolate it's happened before in the past a lot of dogs have my cell phone they just WanNa quit consult or something, and you know I try to comply accommodate but sometimes I can't. Sometimes there's extra fees involved. Are reach out any time, but I'm just letting you know after nine is going to be expensive. Fist little bit more. You had the questions ahead of time. There's anything that you thought man you should ask me this. I'd say. Yeah it's it's just that I'm not saying anything new the you know form relationships you take care of your family. Take vacations united strongly believe in. Taking care of yourself some people take it a little bit too far. CARE yourselves more than a lot more than anyone else. But yeah, I mean do that in a in I think in do something that you love hopefully to be honest with ice started the residency I had no idea I thought that was pretty good with radiology pre well, rangy classes in Cairo school I, thought I, I knew in all in all. It's GonNa be a breeze on through this residency. All Man Justin. One eighty s like now. And they're like, Oh, you see that Yoga Monroe I hope you have it memorized because you don't need it anymore because there's like twenty more books. That's above Auroras that you'll have to memorize you know in your years so That attitude cliffs.

00:45:02 – 00:50:01

When it's tours or three volumes, yokum volumes it's very good. It's very good for our practice even more than what you need. Probably do you ever feel like what the crap I don't get to use any of this stuff that I studied if you're doing seventy five percent spine x rays all day just like man jeeze all this stuff i. Don't even get to put in practice anymore. I would say peters less of it in reality we got a ton of it in Cairo school, right like all sure. Kim and you know I hated that stuff the with ton of useless knowledge that we learned early in Cairo school man, I have a ton of useless knowledge in radiology to. But I I feel like it's not as useless as. We did and we don't every now and then you grass something I don't quite remember the name of this, but Google will help me when I describe it. There it is. There s the word I was looking for. That's yeah. Okay. I remember that now and it's so easy. Now with Google who nets my my go-to sound perfect I. Still have my book. I'll refer to them every once in a while but most of the time on what's what how do I spell Chile? DIDDY syndrome Okay. Yeah. They'll just google it. It'll if I type it wrong google correct me. Ready in point two seconds. What they put that over they always do. They always do yeah. Well, Dr title that was to me very educational and good to see what what a day-to-day looks like with the life looks like the marketing business and hopefully inspire somebody to at least look into the program and to realize that they can make a living doing this and that there's more out there than just gotTa do Rehab and muscles damning adjusting spine all day that just sounds like a bore to somebody or they feel like they they made a mistake but they're too far in debt change course. There's another option. There is no introvert and make a living yes. Yes. Yes. You can. Yeah. We actually it's I just decided a couple years ago that I would not take any cases from patients directly. For while we would would charge double if a patient came to us I, don't know how they found out, but they're like, Hey, can you second opinion on these x-rays assurance? Just it's double what we charge them Cairo in. So we would charge double but in the end of this, never never have all these questions and I can barely top to them because I'm so used to talking to car crafters in our language. And not have to change it like you do it all the time with patients but right immediately just became so hard. That my responsible to explain what the arthritis is in all this knowledge. Kinda of him but I'm like I didn't want to charge him anymore. It sounded outrageous from you to charge three or four five times in side just like you know just you gotTa. Go through your Cairo go to Cairo in handle that way. You'll get a better deal in and I won't have to talk to you ever again. So. What you'd like you said, the chiropractor is GonNa know how to explain whatever you wrote on that paper way better because they do it all the. All Time. So yeah. Yeah. Doing clinical practice. Now it'd be if be so hard for me just it'd be a nightmare patients would suffer for sure. You deliver. Anterior Interiors all day. Man. Maybe maybe. Again appreciate your time stay healthy and I guess quarantine and wear a mask and whatever else they're recommending these days. This. thanks for having made the. Fun and hearing a little bit snippet from your your thing. Susan is very interesting too. So thanks a lot of fun. Another great interview has ended. You're on your phone, Click that review but right up a nice review for me five stars. If you could as everyone says an industry, it'll help other people to find us when we have enough rankings not to mention. I'll mention you and your review on an upcoming episode. If you follow me on Instagram, you only get one link. So I use a link tree and so it's a doctor's perspective dot net slash links with an S. and that's going to give you everything you need to know the top episodes of two, thousand, seventeen and twenty eighteen. Series Dentist Acupuncture Series holiday two, thousand, seventeen financial series how to write a review how to support the show like buying a cup of coffee getting swag like t shirts the today's choices. Tomorrow's Health Book. That's the blueprints for better health exercise picking food correctly financial, and then of course, bundle packs which can get you the. Acute puncture book forty common conditions including the electric acupuncture pin at great deal. The resources page has some of the products that I like it's a affiliate style. So if you buy something from them, I get a piece of that just like on the show notes pages.

00:50:01 – 00:51:30

If you buy a book from clicking that link, I got a small piece of that as well. So I really appreciate that things like screen Castell, matic, pure VPN missing letter, J labs, speakers, prone edge, or hog grips. Once again, if you do need any coaching on how to Improve Your bloodwork drop weight and Diet Fast Mimicking Diet Five Day plan let me know as well as if you need them coaching whether it's health whether it's marketing whether you need some practice growth, etc reach out facebook Justin Tros Clare, MCC. Of course, at a doctor's perspective dot net on the top right you got all the social media icons that you can imagine, Click your favorite and reach out. Thank you so much for tuning. In please tell a friend, pass it along. You can go to dot net slash listen it's just that easy. It'll open up right in your APP and don't forget appreciate you listen critically think and integrate see on the Minnesota's on Thursdays and Saturdays. Hope you're enjoying those I'm definitely having fun summarizing these podcasts in less than ten minutes for you. You get the nuggets without having to waste your time. Day. Do. A.