Mouth breathing can lead to orthodontics, malformed palettes and sleep apnea. Discover what myofunctional therapy is and how proper tongue placement and breathing can counteract it. Sarah Hornsby discusses business and myomentor to help others succeed.
As a dental hygienist she realized she could not do this for 30 years and while exploring myofunctional Therapy she was a little concerned that nobody she knew, knew what it was. It wasn’t until she was enrolled in the class and noticed she had a lot of the signs and symptoms did she realize the power of this unique oral therapy.
Goals of Myofunctional Therapist
- Breathe through your nose
- Have a Good Lip Seal
- Tongue needs to fill up the roof of your mouth
- Swallow Correctly
How do these 4 goals get so convoluted and how can something so natural be missing in so many people and create other issues?
What are some reasons why we might quit nose breathing and backup to mouth breathing? Allergies, asthma, enlarged tonsils and adenoids, thumb sucking and tongue ties can all create mouth breathing.
Mouth breathing in kids can actually change the shape of your jaw and face, cause airway obstructions that can lead to sleep apnea as adults and usually will have more dental health issues including the need for braces and TMJ pain.
Hornsby of faceology will cover questions you can ask during the patients health history to see if some of those 4 goals (like mouth breathing) could be occurring presently or in the past.
She touches on ways sleep apnea can develop from facial structures not growing and spreading as wide as they should, not having enough room in your mouth for proper tongue placement and all this leads to a smaller airway.
What facial characteristics are common and more easily noticeable on people who have had myo-facial compromises and probably don’t even know it? What is the actual cause of an under bite?
Why do babies suck a thumb? Should they use a pacifier? Benefits of mouth and airway development for breast-fed babies.
How much of all these tongue ties that can be treated with myofunctional therapy are a result of epigenetics?
Anterior tongue ties and posterior tongue ties, what are the differences and which is harder to treat with myofunctional therapy? If you have a tongue tie then your tongue doesn’t fill your palette like it’s supposed to and can lead to all the issues we mentioned earlier.
Can myofunctional therapy and preventing or being proactive against mouth breathing (especially at night) allow your children to not have braces, orthodontics?
Why did Sarah switch from brick and mortar locations to doing “telemedicine?”
Any devices that can help? ALF Advanced Lightwire Functional removable appliance. The appliance is custom-made and uses wires to reposition jaws, dental arches, and teeth. DNA Daytime Nighttime Appliance ViVos approved by FDA for sleep apnea. Myomunchee and Buteyko Breathing Technique
With two full time therapists and an office manager and all the side work that seeing patients requires, plus all kinds of time zone appointments, how is she planning to gain more balance for 2019?
Hear some of the challenges she is facing with multiple therapists and how to price her service compared to her employees?
Myomentor.com a training for dental hygienist, dentists, chiropractors and physical therapist who want to fine tune their skills and mentoring the patient care. It is a 12-16 week program.
Since she and her husband work from home, how do they keep the love alive and stay connected or disconnected in this case.
Why does she use paypal instead of stripe, square or any other merchant services.
Naudi Aguilar – Functional PatternsThe Power of Posture
Her site is www.myfaceology.com and her mentor site is www.myomentor.com
I was introduced to myofunctional therapy because of episode 105 www.adoctorsperspective.net/105 and his alternative ways to practice dentistry. To learn more about tongue ties and what to look our for listen to his episode. Also he gave the recommendation to research Dr. Soroush Zaghi, MD (ENT specialist, Otolaryngology) of the Breathe Institute https://www.thebreatheinstitute.com/
Sarah graduated with a bachelor’s degree in Dental Hygiene in 2008. With an interest in natural health and wellness, and getting to the root cause of health problems, she subsequently went on to investigate how the airway, craniofacial development, breathing, and the tongue are linked to the overall health of the body. This led her to train to become a myofunctional therapist.
Sarah started her myofunctional therapy practice, Faceology, in Seattle in 2010. With patients reaching out from across the country and around the world, she made the decision to take the entire practice online in 2014. This made Faceology the world’s first fully-online myofunctional therapy practice. Since then, the practice has grown to include three full time team members and three associate therapists. She also trains other myofunctional therapists.
One of Sarah’s passions is to create awareness about the field of myofunctional therapy. So, in addition to her practice, she also runs MyoMentor, an educational institute that trains dentists, hygienists, and other health professionals to become myofunctional therapists.
Sarah is from the Pacific Northwest and currently lives in Seattle, where she consults with patients, doctors, and healthcare providers from all over the world.
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/109 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.
Justin Trosclair 0:05
Episode 109 mile functional therapy ill effects of mouth breathe sleep apnea. I'm your host Dr. Justin Charles Claire and today we're Sarah Barclays perspective during 2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties let's hear a doctor's perspective
thanks for tuning in again February make it your best month ever, or at least your best February ever, you know, that's something I've always was told. You know, you can't compare too often January February, December January February, you should look at February 2019 verses 2018 verses 2017 That way you can kind of start seeing a trend line Oh February's are sometimes down? What can I do about that? Or father really good. What was I doing in the past? Let me duplicate that make sense? Okay. I'm back from America. So good. Seeing friends see my parents hanging out with the baby eating so much food? Oh, it was a sad day that to go back fly again, with the four month old. Yeah, but parents coming with me to China. So get the experience what I've been experiencing for the last couple of years, I think that'll be good time for him, or at least a cultural change. And I think that they can appreciate you know, these those things? Well, today on the show, we're talking mile functional therapy. It's a continuation, if you will, from Episode 105, where we'd had the dentist, Dr. Alan sprinkle on talking about tongue tie surgeries and worked for demonstrating things. And he mentioned this term mild functional therapy and like what is that? Well, I did a search and Sarah came up on my face ology, which is her website. And my goodness, there's so much information. It's like, Okay, I gotta get her on chat later, find out what this whole thing is about? What does it help? What causes it? And you know, what is the actual therapy? So we're gonna go to all of those things. What are the goals, and all of this is about a little spoiler, mouth breathing, when you're about baby, when you're younger, you mouth breathing, breathing through your nose, your palate forms differently. Your tongue assembles the rest of your your mouth a certain way. And so it ends up changing your airways. So like later on in life, you might get sleep apnea, you may need braces, you know, those types of things, then, you know, answer questions like why do baby suck a phone? What are the difference between answer and post your tongue ties? What can they do about it, if anything, and it was cool as she does telemedicine, that's what she does all the time. Now, she's got people underneath her, which I didn't realize at the end, we talked about some devices that you can use besides braces, for instance, if there's a if you need to go that route, and the unexpected challenges of being a boss and managing several people, not something you would think of when you you know, you just start now. And then she also does a little bit of mentoring. So people who are into this, they might be kind of knew from being like a dental hygiene is that like how to approach doctors how to approach patients, what do I say? I've had this complication, this this complicated case, what do I do with this? So she's kind of like a mentor, because she's been doing it for so long. All right, all the show notes can be found at a doctor's perspective, slash 109. Again, check out the resources page on the site for all the potential things you might need some affiliate and as well, slash support, if you look at wanting to buy the host a cup of coffee, or support the show financially in any way. There's some bonuses for those who do monthly. And we do appreciate those who are doing that it's a make you feel a little bit more impactful, like oh, well, I'm doing matters. What I'm doing is reaching people, it's affecting their practices, it's affecting their lives, improving their relationships with their, with their spouses, and friends and things. So it's cool. It's real cool. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.
Live from China and Seattle, Washington today on the show, we have something you probably not heard of before. But it pairs in with the dentist that we had just a couple of weeks ago, but it's called mild functional therapy. And her name is Sarah Hornsby, and her practice is called physiology. Please welcome to the show.
Justin Trosclair 3:59
Well, pretty chat is fun, we always have a few things to kind of figure out technology today. You know, it's great when it works. And then it doesn't need like a backup plan number two. So that is so excited to have you on just to begin with, give us a little background about yourself. And if you want to you can Bridget into a little bit of like how you got into like mild functional therapy, what is it? You know, those types of things?
Yeah, it's a it's a good question. Because whenever I'm talking to people, they're like, how did you get into this? It's such a weird field. And I'll explain more about what it is. But I'm a dental hygienist by training. So I went to school to learn how to clean teeth. I did it for about a year. And at that point realized, you know, I don't know if I can do this for the rest of my life. So pretty early on in my career as a hygienist I was looking for other options and looking at like, Well, how do I go to dental school, or maybe I should go get an MBA, or I just didn't know what I wanted to do. But I knew I couldn't keep scaling teeth for the next, you know, 30 years or whatever. And it's not that I didn't like the patients, because that's what I love. I love the connections. I think anyone who goes into healthcare loves connecting with people and helping people. So it wasn't that it was just the, the, you know, basically slaving away, you know, nine patients in a row all day. And I just I thought, you know, maybe I can do more. So, to make a long story short, I found my own functional therapy by accident, I was reading a dental hygiene magazine. And there was a little tiny ad in the back. And they talked about, you know, change your dental hygiene career and like a four day course. And I thought, Okay, well, I mean, if this is true, I better do it. So I paid the money. And I felt like, this has to be a scam. I mean, this can't be real. I've never heard of this field, my dentist I worked for us never heard of this field. You know, it can't be real. But I was sitting in the class realizing that I had a lot of the symptoms that I was learning about. And that's really what kind of kept me going and kept me interested said otherwise. I mean, if I didn't connect with it, personally, I probably would have been like, Okay, that was a waste of money. So
Justin Trosclair 6:04
I tried something new. Yeah. advertise it. It's so funny that nobody would have saw that. And unless they were exactly the person that will I'm looking to change and not just do dental hygiene. So that's kind of fun to see that it worked. And you're still just like,
I still I didn't know. And and that's, I think, the biggest problem which you know what we can talk about any of these topics more. The biggest problem with my field is that most other health care providers don't know about it. And that means that most patients don't know about it. So there's a lot of people who need the therapy that I do, but they don't even know the question to ask that would get them to me. And even if they did ask the questions, like 99% of the times a doctor or a dentist they're asking isn't going to know to refer to someone like me? So it's a problem for sure.
Justin Trosclair 6:52
Well, I never heard about until the I said mentioned, there was a dentist on and he was an alternative dentist who doesn't do Mercury, Venus mercury free. So already, he's kind of like, Whoa, Who's this guy? And yeah, like, I didn't really have an opinion about it one way or the other. I just had heard about it like, oh, there's alternative dentist, you know? So like, what's that? And then I found out he does a whole bunch of like tongue tie surgeries. And so yeah, and he had to get a bunch of training with that. And then from there, he's definitely check out. But he has a whole website about the answer.
Oh, I was gonna say is that Dr. Seuss, doggy, because he's kind of like the famous Tongue Tied doctor. So yeah, to people in my field. He's like a celebrity doctor. So
Justin Trosclair 7:33
that's, that is the guy. Yeah, looking for like other people. And then you have like, just the therapy when I was like, oh, and then you had a whole actually a really good website?
Yeah, I've worked hard on that website. I try to have information out there for patients who have never heard of this. So my websites unique. And I think one of my best marketing strategies has been reaching out to the patients directly. You know, if the dentists and doctors don't know about this, then how do I connect with like the parents or the patient? Who have the symptoms, and are googling and searching YouTube? So that's really why I started making videos, you know?
Justin Trosclair 8:06
Yeah, if you all are on your phone, right now, check it out. Because it's almost everything you would need. I don't know if they have an official, mild functional therapy com or something like that. But that's what I thought I was on to begin with, because there's so many good answers, and good question. And like, the professional doesn't have the website, like I tried to design my own. And you can tell I know.
It's so good. So anyway, so that's, that's really cool if you don't have any clue, but you can follow up on her site, and you got videos, and you have a lots of different. But after this podcast, people should know, after hearing what she has to say. So where to begin,
I can explain like what I actually do, because that'll help people I think, as a listen, you know, basically, I describe, I tell people that I have four basic goals for every single patient that I see. So number one, you have to breathe through your nose all day and all night, you've got to use your nose for breathing. Number two, I want you to have a good lip seal. So when you're not talking and you're not eating, you've got to have your lips resting together. Goal number three, your tongue has to be up filling the whole top of your mouth like the tip the middle on the back of your tongue, it has to fill up your oral cavity three dimensionally. Goal number four is you have to swallow correctly. And these things are basic simple things that honestly we shouldn't need a therapist for. We should be born doing these things innately and naturally and we should never even think about it. However, there are things that can make these four goals that I have not come to you naturally and innately and and that was me I was a kid breathing through my mouth. And when you think of the if you if you start to look at what causes mouth breathing, like everything, so allergies, asthma, large tonsils, and adenoids, thumb sucking tongue ties, all of these things that we're looking at as problems that need to be solved. They're actually leading to these other muscle dysfunctions, breathing, dysfunction, swallowing dysfunctions, and that's really what I correct. So, I mean, that's, that's the simple version. But if you can address these things in growing kids, they will have good job development, they'll have good airway development, and they'll end up being adults with better dental structures, facial structures, and they're less likely to have sleep apnea, jaw pain, and a lot of the bigger picture symptoms that I treat, and the adults I see.
Justin Trosclair 10:20
So everything is like Okay, that was really easy. So we keep our lives close, breathe through our nose, our tongue should be in the, you know, pretty much on the roof of your mouth and mountains. And then you gotta swallow you didn't, I'm thinking, Okay, not sure how much of my tongue is that is the in the middle of my tongue on my roof. I'm not trying to like doing on the phone.
It's not for a lot of people. I mean, if you were a kid who struggled breathing in any way, you're probably an adult with these symptoms. And it's not like it's a big deal until it starts to affect you. So the kids who are mouth breathers, kids, yeah, it accumulates over decades. So if you're a kid breathing through your mouth, if you're a kid who's tongue tied, you're very likely at some point in your life to be an adult with sleep apnea, or TMJ issues, which connects to so many other fields like chiropractors. Yeah, you know, if you're trying to work on someone's TMJ, and adjust their Atlas, or, you know, whatever you specialize in, if you're trying to fix that, but their mouth breathing and their tongue is low, you're still never able to get to that root issue, you know, what's going on with their body alignment if their mouth is open? That's not how are meant to be
Justin Trosclair 11:23
you said like with the allergies, so pretty much anytime you just feel really stuffy, like those types of people who like yeah, I can't ever breathe through my nose. I've already have allergies, something's always swollen in there. And so I have to, you know, breed so is just through your mouth is everything. Yeah, as a doctor, we can look it's only at night at night to me,
yeah, go through a patient's health history and find out did they have allergies or breathing issues when they were younger? If so, they might have leftover habits that could be contributing to these bigger problems that they have. Now, if they currently have allergies, and currently have you know, trouble breathing through their nose or a severely deviated septum or large tonsils and adenoids. Those are all reasons that some would still breathe through their mouth, even as an adult, and it might only be at night. But if you sleep for seven or eight hours a night and your mouth breathing that whole time, it's still not good. So you know,
Justin Trosclair 12:10
they know if your mouth breather, you know, your mouth breather,
not always. And that's the crazy thing is most people are either in denial, like I was, I never knew that I was until I was sitting in that class. And I started really, kind of being aware of that and checking in with that. And once I found out, I was horrified, I was so embarrassed. I was like, how to know and tell me this, I was like 22 or 23 at the time. And I thought, Why did my parents don't know about this? Why didn't know. And like, you know, I was like going back to every like Dr an orthodontist. And like, even through my professional training as a hygienist I thought, why didn't know and talk about this. And I was like, I was upset for a while. And that's really why I kind of was like, I'm going to go out there, I'm going to talk about this stuff. Because, you know, I'm an adult with a higher risk for sleep apnea based on my structures, and I'm not overweight, I'm, I'm healthy, but the way my jaws grew and the way my palate is strong, I have a small airway. And and that, you know, could have been changed if my face grew more forward. And if my palate grew wider, I would have more space for my tongue. And I would have a more open and fully developed airway. So
Justin Trosclair 13:14
so you have what do they call these? I don't remember face shapes the chemical teardrop face?
Yeah, I mean, I have a narrow palette, I have kind of a narrower face at longer face. There are facial features that you can look at, in you know, when you look around people, like I mean, I can't see it, you know, it's like he wants you know, you're looking for, like, everywhere. So yeah, I see all sorts of people on TV and at the grocery store at the bank, you know, out in the world, living life, and I'm like, they need my own functional therapy. Everyone needs it, you know. So
Justin Trosclair 13:43
will you see that the jaw sort of be instead of kind of thinner. It'll be kind of around the same shape as your psychosomatic arch kind of area.
Yeah, yeah. So the facial features tend to be flat or like the cheekbone area will be flat, or maybe the mandible is smaller. Anyone who has an under bite, that's another that's a little different. But really, the maxima is small. When somebody has an under by it, we caught a class three malocclusion. It's not so much at the lower jaws too big, it's at the upper jaw didn't fully develop forward. So there's a lot of things that I can see. You know, if you look at faces all day, probably like you, you look at certain things you can recognize and people's postures are, how they hold themselves. Like, you can probably identify stuff from across the room that I wouldn't know what I'm looking at. But with this stuff, I see it a lot. So,
Justin Trosclair 14:29
um, let's see. So we've got the basics. Yeah. We've got both kids, we got adults, we're talking about kids. I know sometimes the baby's not nursing very well, some doctors can obviously tell Oh, there's a little tongue tie. They just kind of do a little surgery, boom, they release it. But what I've seen what I've learned that interview with a dentist is that they go deeper, they figure out No, that wasn't enough, or they just missed it completely. And you can't actually like say, stick your tongue out. You can barely open your mouth, not even 50%. Like when your tongue is it on the back of your teeth. Exactly. What as far as the kid goes, you know, their doctor said it's fine. Maybe they released it a little bit. How do you train a six month old are two year olds, not mouth breathe?
Yeah, that's the hard part. So with with kids and babies and toddlers, you know, the younger they are, it is more challenging. So the ideal time to release tongue tie is when babies are really little. And they're still breastfeeding, because breastfeeding is like my own functional therapy for baby. So if a baby is breastfeeding, and they're a couple of days old, and they get a good latch, and now they can nurse, they're not going to need exercises when they're older. Okay, the tricky part and this they suck their thumb or something. Yeah. And hopefully they don't I mean, hopefully, if they're, if they're nursing, and they've got good oral development and good muscle development, and you know, hopefully they won't suck their thumb. I think there's a lot of theories that the reason kids suck their thumb is because they can't get a full palatable contact with their tongue. And, you know, if you look at Chinese medicine, if you look at, like, even the end anatomy of how like, there's a lot of nerves at our incisive appellate area, like right on the roof of your mouth, that's right where your tongue should touch. And if your tongue tied and you physically can't make that contact with your tongue, then the theory is, according to some people that you're trying to get that stimulation by your thumb in other ways, so you're
Justin Trosclair 16:18
always put stuff in their mouth.
Yeah, or your
fingers. Yeah, there's some like neurological feedback, or there's some endorphin release or something that kids get out of that thumb sucking that they're not getting from their tongue. At least that's one theory. And, you know, as far as like research behind that, I don't know, but I hear a lot of people talking about this in my field. So
Justin Trosclair 16:38
there's the pacifier do the same thing as a thumb because I've heard stories that you suck it for a year and I don't know how long you're supposed to use it for. But it can be it can
Yeah, I think that can that's maybe why it you know, baby stop crying when you give them their pacifier. there so controversial. You know, some people are like, never use a pacifier. Others are like, it's okay, under six months and other people's say, you know, as long as you quit before three, so there you go. You know,
it's, there's a lot of, you know, and I'm not a mom. So I'm always like, you know, I don't want to like judge or make people feel like you've got to do it a certain way. I mean, I know mom struggle. I work with moms all the time. And they feel guilty when they can't breastfeed. You know, my sister had a baby and she couldn't, she couldn't breastfeed, she ended up having to bottle feed and go to work, go back to work after a month. So, you know, everyone tries their best, but I'm always just like, I'm not judging. I just tell you like, if you breastfeed your it's not just about the nutrition from breast milk versus formula. It's about muscle development, suck, swallow brief coordination. There's so much that happens. Even palette with I mean, we do have research saying that babies who breastfeed have wider palettes and babies who bottle feed, they get narrow palettes or they get vaulted bubble palettes and then it's harder to keep the tongue up. So, so much of what happens when we're babies. And our oral development influences us later life for sure
Justin Trosclair 18:01
is, yeah, I just got a three month old and it's just, she's such a cool baby. Like you don't even want the little, you know, grew up, you're supposed to give a good supposed to give it to the baby. And she's like, and I'm like, all right, well,
I guess just five minutes.
Yeah, you know, people always say, Well, what did ancient people do? You know, what did our ancestors do? And like breastfeeding would have been a baby's pacifier. You know, in an ideal world, you know, the mom and baby would be together all the time. And when they need that comfort when they need to soccer nurse, then they, they, you know, breastfeeding is the answer. So I mean, yeah, we don't all have that opportunity and like modern society with jobs and you know, crazy life's and stuff. But if you go back in time, that's what I tried to do. Like, what do people do before we had like, a lot
Justin Trosclair 18:45
of babies probably dying in the street is probably what a lot of babies
milk. I don't know what we're gonna do. Susie said, she's not breastfeeding other people's babies anymore, I guess. Yeah. It's real. Oh, gosh,
yeah, but the tongue tie the tongue tied. I think there are more tongue ties than there used to be. So I think this is a complicated thing that's happening. But epigenetic changes with like modern food, modern, you know, the the toxins and pollutants and stuff in the air. You know, we're getting some of these epigenetic changes that I don't think if you go back even three or 400 years ago, there wasn't so many people that are tongue tied. Part of it is yes, we're looking more we see it more. But there's more to it than that. I mean, we are seeing changes in jaws and schools. And if you look at like Weston Price, and some of the stuff that he could see, you know, epigenetic changes happening within just one or two generations, when, you know, these traditional tribes and cultures would go from eating their normal diets, you know, whatever, they would eat naturally. And then they go to the modern food. And within one or two generations, the kids have cavities. They've got worse job development, their mouth breathing, they've got all of these issues in a very short amount of time.
Justin Trosclair 19:58
My wife is Chinese, and we will came to America, those first few years, just like what is going on with you all so much like, like, gluten intolerance, peanut allergies, all these different, like yellow? Like,
I've never heard anybody? Oh, no.
I can't eat rice, literally playing about that. Now. Maybe they have IBS. And we just don't talk about it.
No, I think there's more to it. I mean, industrialized societies actually have a lot more of these type of like allergy issues, sleep apnea. I mean, sleep apnea is a very modern, industrialized, nation problem. And it has to do with, you know, of course, there's the the weight side of things. But it also has to do with our airway and our breathing. And, you know, if we have higher rates of allergies and high rates of mouth breathing, and high rates of tongue ties out now we're having more rates of these bigger issues, too. So yeah, it is it's complicated, though.
Justin Trosclair 20:52
We're talking tongue tie surgery, that's called a friend yellow plasticity. There's Angier, there's poster answer kind of makes sense to me, the kid can't, you know, stick their tongue out very far. And mean, it makes sense. There's like, what, what's opposed to your version of that? And what can we look for?
Yeah, the post your tongue tie, it's, you know, to me, I'm like a tongue tie is a tongue tie, it just depends on how bad it is. So if it's anterior, it's usually pretty bad. But if there's an anterior and posterior and is restricted, as well, and what we have to look for is, at least what I look for is can the tongue reach the palate. And if it can't, then to me that not just the tip of the so when I'm looking at, yeah, not just the tip of the tongue, the middle and the back. So I have this mouth, I know that, you know, you can see me but I've got this mouth. And I'm showing you the palate here. But the tip of the tongue should be here at the middle here and the back there. So really, the whole tongue needs to touch like, it's almost like laying like a blanket across the whole top of the mouth. Now, if your tongue tied, you can't do that. So to me, I'm not really into like having surgeries just for the sake of having a surgery. I want, you know, a tongue tie released to be like a means to an end. So prepare the muscles, I help people with exercises beforehand, we strengthen the tongue, we give you coordination, we, you know, we work on a bunch of stuff, then you have the surgery. And then after the surgery, now our job is to get your time to go where it should. That's how we're meant to be our tongues are supposed to be in the top of our mouth. That's how our job development and palate development
Justin Trosclair 22:19
can help the surgeon in a sense, this is where we're seeing he's having these issues are just ladies having these issues. And they're like, okay, that means I should probably do more of this type of surgery, potentially, or
Yeah, so I'm just trying to get to the function, you know, if the tongue isn't functioning correctly in the can't rest in the right place. And that means you can't speak in the right way you can't follow in the right way. So to me releasing the tongue tie is just part of many step process where we're trying to get proper oral muscle function. So that's really what I'm doing. But the posterior part comes when you can't get the back of your tongue to go up. Some people with a post area tongue tie, their tongues look pretty mobile, they can stick them out, they can point them up. But then as soon as they try to rest on the top of the mouth, feels exhausting. And it feels hard to keep it up there. And they struggle. So a lot of people who are adults and have a post area tongue tie that hasn't been detected, because it's not very obvious. They end up with clenching and grinding, facial pain, jaw pain, TMJ issues, chronic headaches, chronic neck and shoulder issues. And that's from dysfunctional muscle use, when the tongue can't function properly. Now, the muscles under the floor of the mouth, the muscles and the neck. All of these muscles, even like the temporary Alice and the muscles of masturbation, they are now overcompensating and working in dysfunctional ways, because the tongue isn't doing its job, if that makes sense. So it's kind of a simple way of explaining it. But there's compensations going on that I'm trying to just disconnect disassociate. Those those muscle compensations for people who are Tongue Tied as adults, a lot of companies really built up. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, basically, these these people have built up over you know, if they're 40 years old, they've been having all these muscle compensations and muscle problems because their tongue tied, they're probably going to have clenching, grinding, jaw pain, facial pain, headaches, all that stuff. So
Justin Trosclair 24:10
so I get a feeling your clientele is probably a lot more like adults. Because these days, yeah. Okay, so let's say, we got kids, they're four to eight years old, and they're getting to that point and all their teacher there, you're noticing they got some gasping some cross by? They gotta pay for my kids braces know, is that, you know, yeah.
just messed up. At that point. Should you also look into the mile functional stuff? Because at that point, maybe they could spend the next six months doing certain exercises or something and see what happens? Definitely.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So when when I work with kids, I'm, I would say about 60% of my patients are adults and 40%, our kids, so I still see a lot of kids. And when I'm working with kids, it's all prevention minded, you know, we're trying to basically guide their growth, through proper oral habits and breathing. If you can optimize the growth of the jaws and the growth of the palette, then the teacher should come in straight. You shouldn't need braces, if if everything grows the right way. Now, the first sign that parents should look for is, is your kid mouth breathing, even if it's only at night, we grow a lot at night. And if you're growing and that open mouth posture, even if it's only at night, it's not good. So that's going to be you know, you're going to end up with crowding, you're going to end up with a narrow palette, you're going to end up with that vertical facial growth. And that leads to a lot of the problems that I have as an adult and that my adult patients have. So look for those symptoms, like mouth breathing, and kids, that's the most obvious common thing, that if you tune into my brain is literally just your mouth,
Justin Trosclair 25:43
mouth is open, like when they say they're just like, you can feel it exactly. So if your lips are a part, even one millimeter, your tongue drops. And it's that tongue dropping to the bottom of the mouth that, you know, now the palate has no support, there's no structure for the max Larry arch as we go quality dentistry. So, you know, that means that you're not going to get forward facial development, if the tongue is download. Now, the the the maximum, the maximum, just hanging out is not getting any stimulation, it's not getting any forward facial development, or its natural expansion from the tongue. So, you know, look for that. And then the best thing you can do is find an orthodontist who's airway focused. So if your kids are mouth breathing, and you know you're looking, you got to get those habits under control. So whether you do it on your own or work with a mild functional therapist, orthodontists who are looking at tongue posture, who are looking at the airway, who are looking at mouth breathing, those are the ones I'd recommend. Not all of them are unfortunately, this is like that my biggest challenge is finding the orthodontist who get what I do. If they're not looking at what I'm doing, then I think I mean, in my opinion, they are missing a huge piece of the puzzle. They're not if you're not looking at the tongue and the the mouth resting posture and the mouth breathing, then you can put braces on kids, but it's not going to stay stable. And you're not going to guide that growth in the right direction.
Justin Trosclair 27:05
Oh, that's what you mean like so that your teeth will get straight. But if you stop sharing your screen like I did, you'll start getting all those things are starting to come back, because I'm pretty sure I'm a mouth breather at night. Because I'm thinking I'm like, I'm looking at my calendar. Go. And look at my kid. We like to use your mouth closed. We usually because I was like, I'm pretty sure mine don't because you know, my mouth was dry out or whatever. Like I know.
That's exactly. If your mouth is dry. If you wake up with like drool on your pillow. Those are signs. But yeah, I mean, not to like put you on the spot. But yeah, I think you could benefit from bio functional therapy.
Justin Trosclair 27:38
I noticed that was watching your videos, which are actually good. I don't think he took one take to make that. Let's just be honest, it looked like you were you practice this one. Just the basic what is mild functional therapy? If
that was my point. I talked about this stuff all day. So he was a polish. I don't have to like practice. It
Justin Trosclair 27:59
wasn't like me which jumping on the camera. All? Right. What's chiropractic? Well, I'm gonna tell you. Yeah.
No, I mean, those videos that I made, they really came out of, I do these free assessments with people. So I offer a 30 minute free assessment so people can ask questions. And, you know, it's kind of weird. If you've never heard of this field, and you've never met me and we are doing it online, then I feel like I want to give people an opportunity to ask me questions and to understand, you know, why would you pay someone to help you with these habits? That seems so silly. So I, I talked about the same things over and over and over with pretty much every person. And so I thought, a few years ago, I was like, I should just start putting together you know, little video clips of the things that I say all the time. And then when I finished my calls, I can send people the video links. And so when I started these videos, it wasn't for like marketing purposes, I never really thought that many people would watch them. And here we are a few years later, and my youtube channel surprisingly gets a lot of views. I mean,
Justin Trosclair 28:58
yeah, if you if you've learned anything for SEO and keywords, and how to do that stuff, if you haven't, you should go do that. So that way you can really optimize your videos, but people are finding it, they just type it in and then
people find it. Well, I think, you know, there's not a lot of people making videos on like tongue ties and mouth breathing, and kudos. Like that.
Justin Trosclair 29:17
So we're doing pipe assessments, telemedicine, if you will, because exactly tell about sending go across the world instead of just Seattle.
Exactly. Yeah. And that's really how it started. I mean, I had a practice in Seattle, where I would see people in person for about four years. And then it just got to the point that by it was like four years ago today, actually, like December 2014, was when I thought okay, I think I'm going to actually close down my physical location. And I'm going to try to take this whole thing online, because even my local patients, nobody wants to drive in traffic. And nobody you know, if you can do it at home from the comfort of your house, like why wouldn't you want to do that? So, I mean, for me, as long as people have a good internet connection and good lighting, I think that they're is even better online, then you know, if you come and meet me in person, so what's nice is profitable now to
Justin Trosclair 30:05
So it's like a not my overhead is literally this square foot office in my house. I mean, that's it.
Exactly. And and yeah, I think a lot has changed in the internet world. Because if you think back to 2014, it wasn't that long ago, but internet speeds were way worse. I mean, it was harder. Now. I mean, I've got like a 300 meg connection in my house, and most patients have pretty high speed internet. But back then I would I would meet people who still had like, dial up. And I would be like, Oh, this isn't gonna work. And so I really had to get into like, the the technical side of like walking people through, like, you know, can you run a speed test? And you know, what, and they're like, well have four bars. I'm like, No, it doesn't work that way, you know.
So I really had to get pretty tech savvy and like, understand a lot of the stuff that I never would have if I just kept you know, seeing patients in person. So it's great.
Justin Trosclair 30:56
I'm going to come back to this, but I wanted to round out the more What is all this part of the interview? That's okay, I'm thinking okay, I heard about this thing called mile monkey. And I think she's gonna come on the show. But you also mentioned something called Advanced light where functional device and a daytime nighttime, the Vice dance look like wire things that you're one of those?
Yeah, they're kind of their alternative, I guess. I mean, that's kind of a dumb word. But there, I think more airway centric or airway oriented orthodontic appliances, so they're looking at the things I look at, but it's an orthodontic treatment. So for me, if I meet somebody who doesn't alpha clients, who's a doctor, actually, I think the alpha clients was invented by a chiropractor, or at least partially, Dr. Derek Nordstrom, in Los Angeles, he, I think he might be a dentist, but paired with a chiropractor, I don't remember. But that advanced light wire appliance is meant to apply gentle pressure, and it works with you know, your tongue. So each time you swallow, it stimulates the palate to remodel. And so it's really a lot along the lines of what I'm looking at. Because it straightening teeth, it's moving teeth, but it's looking at the tongue and the breathing and the airway. So it's not just like, oh, we'll give you a great smile. It's like, let's make you healthier. Let's get your palate wider. Let's optimize your growth and development if you're a kid, and and that's really important to me when I'm looking for orthodontists. So if I find somebody who's doing that alpha plants, I know that they're probably going to know about what I do, and probably one out of 100 dentist has actually heard of what I do, maybe less so it's growing, it's changing. But for me, it's really about finding those those like minded healthcare providers, because I can't do it on my own, you know, I have to find a team of people who get what I do. And that can be the EMT, that can be the dentist that can be the orthodontist, it can be the chiropractor, it can be real, my gosh, I can't, I can only teach exercises, you know, I can't do everything. So
Justin Trosclair 32:59
and we're talking results for an adult versus like a kid or an adult has an issue versus a kid who you're you want to be proactive, especially like in my family, we've all had braces, more than likely, it's like, there's a good chance that there's something that we can do ahead of time. How long does it take to see results, kid versus adult.
Uh, I mean, when I work with people, I usually put them through a 12 session program, and that program spends over or spans anywhere from six months to a year. So that's not because it's like, I just want to see you that long. That's because it takes it can take a while to change those habits. So, I mean, for me, personally, I think it took me about 18 months before I really felt comfortable keeping my tongue in my palate breathing through my nose, and I never had to think about it. So you know, I don't want people to have to be like forcing themselves to do these things. I want it to be come subconscious. And just part of you know how they are, I don't want it to be forced. So to get to that point, it takes a little longer. But I would say in general, after four to six weeks, people start making big changes. So
Justin Trosclair 34:03
because all of a sudden you're having to be conscious of your breathing, which is so difficult. You got so many other things to do, you know,
and it can even Yeah, and it can span into like mindfulness and it can span into you know, like a lot of people who are into that kind of thing. They talk about feeling your tongue in your palate and feeling your you know, breathing through your nose and just becoming super aware and mindful of these things that aren't natural to think about. You know, it takes practice So
Justin Trosclair 34:27
have you ever looked into Oh, you know, these are the people they smoked in my pop a rubber band or I don't want to be a negative person and they were I remember being in a snap that every time do you like noodles? I'm live strong races that were so cool. Some people still wear those. Yes, yes. Like that. So they watch your tongue.
Yeah, I have a lot of different reminders. I even have people you know, there's habit reminder, like there's apps and stuff that you can download. I have people put these little colored stickers. I don't think I have any around me right now. But you can put up like little color stickers that are supposed to be like visual, you know, reminders have to check in with yourself. There's a lot of, you know, habit awareness, things like that, that people can do. So I tried to incorporate a lot of that stuff. So easier for people. But yeah, that's a good one. You forget, well, it's not a normal thing to think about. You know, it takes practice,
Justin Trosclair 35:17
you put a sticker on your cell phone, how many times a day you'd probably end up practicing because you pull your phone out you like the red sticker.
Exactly. Yeah. Or like the computer monitor screen that would help me because I'm at my computer all the time. So, you know, I was just thinking I didn't talk about the DNA appliance that daytime, nighttime. You asked me about that. And that's just another version of the orthodontic appliance that it's similar to the alpha clients. It's it's actually the DNA appliance has been sold to a company. I'm pretty sure that's what happened. But it's called Vi Vi. Vi Vi o s. And if anyone wants to look that up, the V Vols appliances actually FDA approved to treat sleep apnea. So Ah, yeah, so it's kind of a cool on. And that's again,
Justin Trosclair 35:59
which put that into
so orthodontic. Yeah, dentist or an orthodontist. It's an appliance that I think sometimes they're removable, and you wear them at night, sometimes you wear them during the day to if you're trying to treat sleep apnea, not everyone just wants to wear see Pat for the rest of their life. So the theory with these appliances is if you can give somebody a wider palette, give them more airway space. And you know, give them more job development orthodontic Lee, then it's a it's an option. That's not surgery. And it's not an easy path. And it's not just a man dealer, advanced advancement device that is a common dental implants to just basically move your mandible forward to keep your airway open at night. So I think I mean, if I had sleep apnea, that's probably
Justin Trosclair 36:40
what I would do. So you can do the V Vols, along with you know, with the training that you would do you probably see results.
therapy. Well, that's Yeah, that's critical. Like if you're not actually addressing the breathing and the tongue posture, you can do any surgery, any appliance, but you're never getting to that like root cause. So yeah, you've got to include that man. They're just you know, if I say this
Justin Trosclair 37:00
works as well, as we hope it would, it seems like it should spread like wildfire. Like you got sleep apnea. Yeah, here's a pamphlet, oh, you need more help. Here's a website you can visit. And there's all these practitioners in the in the nation that Yeah, let's see.
Well, you know, it's not to sound like JD colon are jaded and cynical, judical. jaded and cynical. But there's not really a way that like an industry can make a lot of money off of therapy like I do. So it's not something that insurance companies have been able to capitalize on yet. It's not something you know, like a see Pat machine, the sleep. It's just, it's easier to make money on that kind of thing. And I think that's why you know, you needed to, but yeah, you know, device or like, here's something you can hand someone. And unfortunately, you know, therapies doesn't really fit into that. So well. It's changing, though. I mean, we're just getting research within the past like three to five years connecting tongue tied, tongue ties and sleep apnea, mouth breathing and sleep apnea. So especially in key kids, and there's a lot of research that will be coming out very soon. That's like, I mean, nobody's going to be able to ignore the connection of mouth breathing, tongue ties, and sleep apnea in kids. so fantastic.
Justin Trosclair 38:11
That'd be fun. Yeah, look forward to see some of that stuff.
I Hell Yeah, I know, I'm excited. There's a dentist, and he's an orthodontist, and Australia who's doing a lot of research, he's compiled, like 15 years of research on like, 4600 patients or something crazy. And they're all kids between the age of seven and nine. And he's pretty much making this stuff like, super out there. And he's including my own functional therapy as part of the treatment plan to help kids with sleep apnea. So that's good. I mean, it's good for my field. So my field will spread like wildfire. Like you said, I really think in the next five to 10, hopefully not 15 to 20 years, but hopefully very soon, it will become as mainstream as like, I need braces, you know, I need my own functional therapy. So that's my hope.
Justin Trosclair 38:55
Yeah. I mean, I get that because you want to be able to be paired with like minded or photonics and dentist who would like who see that the purpose of it is and then there's like, Okay, this is what you need to do along with x y&z
Yeah. And and I don't want people to think Oh, just do this therapy, and you'll carrier sleep apnea. I don't want people to think like, I'm, I'm going to cure them. Because I'm, you know, you can't right here asleep at Yeah, you can't even know if you have it without being diagnosed, having a sleep study and all those things. So for me, it's just about getting people to whatever treatment they're pursuing, to look at this as part of it as a critical part of it. Now, I hope that becomes part of the conversation. as the years go by,
Justin Trosclair 39:34
what are you doing from marketing? You know,
not a lot. Okay, it's all word of mouth, I haven't really marketed and that's been something that I'm, you know, I've got a big project for 2019. So, I've been able to survive, and and on my website gets a lot of us my, my youtube channel brings people to me marketing, and it's kind of Yeah, I mean, not paid marketing, I guess. I write a lot of articles for my website. And and really, you know, that's it. So I'm looking into like, what, you know, what can I do in 2019? To actually like, maybe pay someone to ads or something? I don't know what that looks like yet. But yeah, and what
Justin Trosclair 40:11
I've learned, you're doing a lot of what they called content marketing. So you've, you've got your basis of lots of different articles, you got lots of YouTube videos that are already doing organic, you got a lot of organic result. Yeah. So you didn't ask, I'll just throw this out here, when you're looking into hiring someone who do like Facebook ads, or that kind of stuff for you, if they're probably not mentioning, utilizing some of these videos that you've already had, or like pushing people to the blog posts that you're like, your most popular blog posts, like that would be a really good way, you know, it'll be more engagement, it'll be cheaper in the long run for you. But if people aren't even mentioning those types of things.
Yeah, no, that's, that's good. I might have to even talk with you about this later. Because, yeah, that's kind of one of the things I'm like, okay, you know, I don't like people are so long. I haven't. Yeah, oh, totally, though, they'll spit? Yeah. And, you know, I don't, I've learned a lot about being you know, an entrepreneur, you know, I say that in quotes, because I never really thought of myself as one. But I do feel like I'm in a field, I'm kind of having to, like, forge my way through, you know, things that nobody has really done. And especially in my field, like, doing therapy fully online, even that's kind of, you know, a point where people have criticized me, so, you know, they say, well, you can do that it doesn't work, you can't see and, and I think, well, if it didn't work, then my patients wouldn't be happy and getting results. And so and it's not for everyone, you know, maybe some people really need that that person to person physical, you know, sitting next to you experience, but for a lot of people, they don't have a local therapist in their area. So I'm really just filling a void. You know, like there's, there's a big void in the field, there's not a lot of therapists out there. And, you know, that will change. I mean, as my field grows, like, I'm, I'm a trainer too. So I, I train other Hi, Janice, how to become mile functional therapists. And I've got a course that I've taken over 100 hygienists have gone through my my training program. And so you know, I am, I try not to look at it as like, I'm creating my own competition. I try to look at it as I'm creating my own marketing team, you know, because I know you
Justin Trosclair 42:10
don't have enough people to be compelling. As long as they're not in the same zip code as me Actually, there's plenty of fish out there. And you know,
what, there's so many dentists are so many chiropractors, there's so many orthodontists, and when there's no shortage of patients, and there's no shortage of people who have these problems, unfortunately. So I try not to look at it as like a that's a scarcity mindset, because it's tempting, you know, it's tempting to be like, oh, what if I don't have enough patience, but you know, every person that I train, they're out there talking to dentists and orthodontists and pediatricians and Auntie's, about what what I'm doing and what they're doing. And so I think it's like spreading it all out there. You know, it's, it's getting more people out there talking to train that one person who is super into Facebook marketing and all this stuff, and like, really good advertiser and like a really strong business mind. And it'll just take five years.
Justin Trosclair 43:00
Have you heard her? Number one?
You need to really get the message out more like, yeah.
Well, that's what I'm hoping I mean, for 2019, one of my big goals is to get the message out there more and to actually, you know, try So, so far, I've just been, you know, lucky that I've got a busy practice. And, you know, I've got two other therapists who work for me, and it's going well, but, you know, I think one of the biggest things about having a business or a practice is you've got to stay relevant, you know, you can't just keep doing the same thing. And, you know, to kind of resting on your laurels, you've always got to be what's what's new, what's different, what's changing, I think, if you're not doing that, if you stay stagnant, then you're gonna you're going to fall behind. So one other thing
Justin Trosclair 43:44
too with Facebook ads is so strange. You like, you're not really supposed to put like, no, you're not have headaches, exactly. suffer with sleep apnea. So it's like being creative. Like I forgot about that you raise your you have to like word it, like their way or pillows website when you wake up. And then you know, it's like, how do you how do you word it? So like, what are the people bother you? When pillow year? You know, you have sleep apnea? Like that's the hard part, like when the advertising comes up? Like, okay, these are the issues they're having? Yeah, I got the solution.
That is true. Yeah, I don't know. With with ways of doing that. Well,
Justin Trosclair 44:17
the part I haven't had to really advertise for chiropractic yet, but I got a bunch of chiropractors to advertise for chiropractors. So there's, you know, you just pay like somebody couple hundred bucks a month, and they do it all for you. And you don't have to really think I figured it out. But when I was advertised for the podcast, you know, sometimes, you know, just promote the average, you know, an eye doctor, but you got to be careful. Sometimes it's like, oh, do you? Can't I okay, that got denied? Let me try something else. Because I'm just trying to advertise, like, what a doctor may have been talking about, because otherwise
I can't we can't really tell. Like that, I guess. Because I mean, if you are like a snake oil person, then you know, you could take advantage of people like you know, take this magic pill and lose all lose, you know, 40 pounds. So I guess, you know, maybe it's like to protect the consumer, but it does kind of negative self image. Oh, yeah, actually, you're right. That is some of it, too. I have heard that as well.
Justin Trosclair 45:10
Alright, so we're going to wrap this thing up here. Okay, so you have your own entrepreneurial business, you can do it from anywhere you have a husband? And are you're able to take vacation, can you unplug and just get away from work?
And that was really hard. You know, I have these I see 2019 as like, Okay, this is the year I'm going to make it happen. Because right now, I mean, I feel like even though we travel, we do all this stuff. You know, we can live anywhere. And that's great. As long as there's a good internet connection. Yeah, it just I've worked. I've gotten to this state of like, I work all the time, and it is hard to unplug, when everywhere you go, your work can go with us having learning to set up boundaries, especially because I see patients and many different time zones. I couldn't literally work any hour of the day, any day of the week, because there's always someone somewhere who's like, Oh, can I get scheduled? And so for me being really strict with my scheduling, it's one of my goals, I have to get better at because
Justin Trosclair 46:12
you know, West Coast, which is the worst time zone.
Why is it the worst?
Justin Trosclair 46:17
Because if I'm in central or if I'm in like Florida, it's 10 o'clock at night you like, well, it's five o'clock here. Yeah, exactly there. But you're having to be like early in the morning.
Yeah, I like. So we spent quite a bit of time living in Hawaii. And I like working there because I'm done by five o'clock, because that's eight o'clock, depending on the time, Pacific time. And that's like 11 o'clock eastern time. So I can see all my patients I can work, you know, a good eight or nine hour day, and then I can still have dinner, I can go on a walk. But here it is hard, because sometimes I finished work at eight o'clock or 830 at night and then start early to then Hmm, I'm just like a, I don't want to go, I don't want to make dinner, I just want to watch TV, I just want to like veggie I'm like so dead after the day that projects that I really want to work on. And, you know, there's still like notes, I've got to finish and there's emails I've got to send out and I'm just dead and tired. And so I feel like I'm a lot more productive in Hawaii because of the time the time zone. So it's interesting that you say that, you know, being able, once you leave, why? Because my family's here in Seattle, so it's always pulling me back, you know? So it's easy to go live like six to eight months at a time, you know, rent a place a short term lease. And that's that's kind of what we've done. So it works out and we like it and of course I who doesn't want to live in Hawaii, you know, so
Justin Trosclair 47:39
it's super expensive there though I hear
very expensive and that does get it gets kind of wearing on you after a while. Just the food the the gas, I mean, the electricity, you know, it does, it adds up and you just feel like it's just like, it just gets old. You know,
you go to Costco actually, you kind of get immune to it after a while you go to Costco and buy what you need. And it's always pretty expensive. And then you get I get home back to Seattle, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I didn't realize that. That's so much cheaper than I thought, you know, so
what am I doing that when you're there as a local, it's a little bit different than when you're there on vacation. I mean, we find pretty affordable places to rent. Once you get out of like the vacation rental mode, where it's not like you know, $200 a night once you find like a place to rent that's like 1500 to 2000 a month. I mean, that's not that's like anywhere in the world. So it comes with its its trade offs. Like there's cockroaches and geckos and and I don't mind the geckos, but we lived in a house at one point that was filled with geckos and you know, it's kind of funny, like I was always afraid I would be on calls every like Gecko is crawling on the walls behind me and I'd have to like sorry, that's just Art Deco house, you know, so for videos, we actually had some when I was filming videos, there 3d wallpaper, the geckos would you know, be climbing on the wall in the back of the video. So you know, it's it is
Justin Trosclair 49:00
we can get goes here every now and then, you know, they're just climbing around on my Oh,
there's another lizard and we know from China I think anywhere you live that's like warm and tropical. There's geckos and they like coming in the house and the good thing is they actually keep the that like ants down and you know they eat I prefer that gonna road totally, I don't like
Justin Trosclair 49:19
roaches gross, but a lizard. I'm like he's doing I love the
geckos. And these are so if you look them up, they're so beautiful. They're called gold dust day geckos, and they're bright green, and they've got blue stripes on their body and like little red dots on their head. And they're really really pretty slim. You look at
Justin Trosclair 49:33
they're not really like, they look like shimmery. I guess I don't know the word. But if you look up gold dust a gecko they are they're not native to Hawaii. They've been released there, like, you know, in the past 50 years, and they've just multiplied like crazy. So no Natural Born Killers. Yeah, they are.
So anyway, yeah, that's a little off topic. But oh, well, that's fun. Um, but yeah, I think the work life balance has been a challenge for me. And it's one of my goals, to to get under control. I mean, I really, really have to, because I'm at this rate, I'm just going to burn out. I'm already like, burnt out on a lot of things. So not not the work itself, but just the the constant grind of just feeling like nothing's ever done. Nothing's ever complete. I can never take a break. That's what I'm kind of getting burnt out on. So
Justin Trosclair 50:18
automate. I mean, you said you have big plans for 2019. There's some things that can be done automatic, but I'm not sure how you would set that up with like a Zapier are, you know, those types, I will have
to look into that. Yeah, you know, I know some of your questions that we could talk about, we're about like hiring staff, I have two other therapists, I've got a full time like office manager level one know, kind of behind the scenes person. And she's really, it's so helpful having that And plus, it puts kind of this divide between me as the therapist, health care provider and her as you know, kind of the, we need your payment, and you know, you're late for your appointment. So there's a fee, and, and that, or you're Mr. appointment or whatever. So putting up that divide has been really helpful for me. Because, you know, you can't really have that rapport and patient, like, I don't know, the word nurturing, and then also be like, the money enforcer and the schedule enforcer. So, you know, for me, that's been really helpful, but I had no idea it would be such a challenge. Having like, a team, you know, a staff, you know, there's a lot of responsibilities that, that come with that, that I just thought, Oh, my life will be so much easier when I have other people working for me. But now the the jobs are just different jobs, you know, so now it's like, oh, I have to make sure this is working. Okay. And she's doing all right with that. And so, you know, the supervising role is something that I'm still learning. So yeah, if you have advice on
how to be a boss, I mean, that's been hard. So
Justin Trosclair 51:44
two employees that are doing kind of what you do, and then a manager, look at you, I didn't realize that I thought, yeah, solo doing it all
solo person I was for a long time, but the past two, three years. You know, it's it's ramped up quite a bit. The iraq thing is I heard these other therapists thinking like, oh, if I have a lower cost option for people, then you know, more people will be able to get therapy, and they'll be more access to care, blah, blah, blah. It's kind of a reverse psychology situation, you know, I have a lower cost option to work with one of my associates, you're the best, and it almost makes more people want to work with me. It's a weird, yeah, psychology thing that I didn't foresee that. So it's made like now more people are no, no, no, we really want to work with you. Versus, you know, I thought everyone would just want to save money and work with the therapist. So
yeah, that's, that's been a challenge
Justin Trosclair 52:36
three, number two cash practice, PT, podcast. And there, you know, in physical therapy, it's an odd thing. Apparently, the chiropractic were like, yeah, everybody's pretty much solo, like you work for somebody to gain little experience. And then you get your own thing. Like, that's just what we do, there is no option. But for physical therapy to be a cash service, where they're not really in the hospital system, or under the thumb of a doctor, and they just do it all themselves. They're kind of like, you're like, all right, I charged hundred 25 or $175 an hour for my schedules for I want to become more of a boss. Yeah. And so they're always talking about somebody, and then they charge the same fee. That's my point. They're charging the same fee. And then it's like, how do I position it? They're like, Oh, my online reviews where I'm the best, I'm the best. And now that I want him like, well, Bob pretty good to like, well, Bob's not on the reviews, I know,
it's a have to get the I would definitely have to I mean, I know a couple physical therapist, so I'll have to look at that podcast, and then connect with them. Because I think it's very similar. Like when you when your business is you? How do you pull yourself away from it? You know, I'm, I'm maxed out pretty much with the amount of patients that I can actually see. And I'm still taking more on, you know, I'm not like slowing it. I'm not saying okay, I'm not putting like a cap on it. I'm just hoping that more people start flowing to my associates. But I think the only way that's going to happen is if I raise my prices, which is something I didn't really want to do, because I also have this thing about like, I don't want to just be like charge. That's what these are normal rates. It's kind of exclusionary, I guess, you know, and so I mean, I guess I just have to do that, because then it's going to make other people see my associates, but you know, I the the, like, ethical dilemma behind that.
Justin Trosclair 54:15
The ones that I've heard like on the interviews, his rates are.
Yeah, yeah, like $500 a session or something. I'm like, now that just seems like that seems ridiculous.
Justin Trosclair 54:24
It'll weed out your schedule. You'll be like, oh, I've got half a skeleton.
But my associates, my side are definitely busier now. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, many people that I didn't realize that either your training is like over 100 different. Yeah.
So I trained. Yeah, my other business or branch of business is called mile mentor. So that's my old mentor calm that I trained dentist. Mostly, it's mostly geared towards Hi, Janice, because I'm a hygienist. But I probably had like, eight dentist go through it too. I've had a couple of physical therapist, you know, I tell them, this is like a dental program. But if you really want to learn it, you can go through it. So yeah, what I'm trying to do is make programs that are more geared towards body workers and physical therapists, because I really feel like if you're a PT, or an OT, or massage therapist or a chiropractor, integrating some of these tongue exercises could be really beneficial to your patients. So I'm trying to figure out how to get it away from just being like, you have to see me the specialist to Candace be like a technique or a modality that other people can apply to what they already do. So that's, that's a project I have that, you know, I've got to clear my schedule, so I can actually get time to work on it and put together these courses for body workers. I guess it's kind of the umbrella term, I'm sure
Justin Trosclair 55:44
you've already noticed, teaching this profitable.
Yeah, teaching is well, what it's what it's done for me is I have a class of 10 students or 12 students, and I see them all two hours a week. So we have our discussion call on our, the lecture call is on Monday, and the discussion call is on Thursday. And so it's all they all pay their tuition for the course. And then I see them in so it's like more money all at once. And it's over a shorter period of time. So like my time goes so much further with teaching. And yeah, so I think this
Justin Trosclair 56:18
is something that they can learn in one weekend.
Well, so my course it's like a mentoring. So that's really what I've tried to do to set myself apart because the typical training for mild functional therapy is a four day like a weekend course. And nobody can go through that feeling like they've got it all down, you know, so I've, I've really just fill this void between training and real life. And so, you know, the therapists who have taken these training courses, or the hygienists or dentist, they feel like I need more like, I need some guidance. I don't know how to start a business. Today, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I want help, or I'm too afraid to network with doctors, or I don't know, like, how to talk about this stuff. So my program, it spans over, it's a 12 week program, and we have to two week break. So it's about 16 weeks total. So it's a four month program. And I mean, my goal to anyone who goes through it is I want you to come out the other end, like actually able to practice so seeing patients, networking with doctors building a business, if that's what you want to do, or integrating this into, you know, like a dental practice.
Justin Trosclair 57:21
Do you have to carry malpractice or anything like that? Or is it
there is kind of a dental hygiene malpractice that we can get as high Janice, but, you know, mild functional therapy is kind of an odd thing. So there's some of these insurance companies are making like writers for my own functional therapy as part of the insurance policy, but it's Yeah, it's it's, it's interesting, being part of a new field where people are like, what do we do with this? You know,
Justin Trosclair 57:45
yeah, cuz I mean, don't want to get just think about that. Like, we're talking about stuff that you could you know, if it can change something, all of a sudden, somebody could have a bad experience. And then, you know,
yes, and no, it's, it's true. Luckily, I've never heard of that happening yet. But you know, there's runners forever thing so
Justin Trosclair 58:01
and that's the problem. We're gonna have some over ambitious person who is going to take it to that next level, potentially, and be like, yeah, I can, I can clean your teeth while we're doing it.
You have to be super by the patient. You know,
I'm going to do these exercises 500 times a day, and then they end up you know, their jaw falls off.
Justin Trosclair 58:23
Some crazy health problem that like normal Normally, you would never do the exercises that much. So you know,
Justin Trosclair 58:30
somebody died from like, a bio freeze like a joint cream. Oh, my muscle hurts. You put some some like painkiller on? I know what it is, yeah. somebody died or something like that. And you're like, What in the world and this person was using a gallon a week or so?
stuff like that, where you know, you can't? Yeah, you can't make it up. You're like, what? This is crazy. Like, I would have never even thought anybody would try that. So, you know, that's where I think for me having like a good I have like an informed consent that people have to sign and, you know, it talks about like the the wrist even though there really aren't a lot. I mean, it's much riskier to get braces, you know, it's much riskier to have like your septum straightened, or your tonsils and adenoids taken out. So the thing that I'm really, yes.
Justin Trosclair 59:18
Yeah, like, the roof of your mouth. So you know, there's way way more invasive things and even Tongue Tied procedures. I mean, having your tongue tie releases minor compared to some of these other things, you know?
Justin Trosclair 59:30
Yeah. So you probably not a fan of like tongue rings. Is that still a thing? You know,
I don't think it's good. My sister used to have her tongue pierced when we were in college. And I think that her, you know, I would clean her teeth. As a hygienist and the inside of our teeth are all chipped up from having that metal ball, like hitting the teeth. It makes me think your tongue probably can't stay in the top of your mouth, if there's a piercing through it. So it's probably not good.
Justin Trosclair 59:53
Yeah, I didn't even think about that. That's a long time since I've thought about tongue pierced. I know.
I haven't. Wow. Yeah, that's fine.
Justin Trosclair 1:00:01
Last two questions. I know you got you got things to do spouse significant other, how do you keep the love alive in these days? You know,
we work together a lot. And so I think the because, you know, he's, he actually works along, he does a lot of my website stuff. And a lot of my behind the scenes, you know, video editing and all that. So I think the biggest thing for us is like actually having space because we like he doesn't go to work. And I don't go to where like we both are at home all the time. So having our own separate the times I think is really important where most people I think most normal people, you know, they go to work, their husband or wife goes to work, and they meet and they're like, Oh, yeah, how was your day and we see each other all day. So
I'll see you need to separate for a little while, but then also being able to talk about non-work things. I think that's one of the things that can be a problem, you know, where it's just like, Okay, this needs to happen. We don't work on this project, and blah, blah, blah. So realizing, you know, taking time to like, separate and not have like, we're not going to Let's not talk about work like with us just go out to dinner, let's just enjoy your evening together. You know, that kind of stuff. being strict with that I think is critical,
Justin Trosclair 1:01:07
especially people support each other and like he supports you use support him in all your endeavors is easy. That will just fall back to Okay. All right. Let's talk about the more.
Yeah, I mean, I'm super passionate about what I do. And so I'm always like, I know, it drives him crazy. Like, I get ideas all the time, like, Oh, we should do this. And we should do that. He's like a do always like, Is there ever a day when you don't have ideas? You know, and, you know, so he loves it, too. I mean, I shouldn't say like, he hates it, but you know, I think it probably does.
Justin Trosclair 1:01:34
Do some of this stuff on your own. Yeah, I know. While you're editing,
yeah. Well, I mean, I that's another I think entrepreneur thing to to remember or to learn is like, hire people pay people. I wish that years ago, I just would have hired an accountant to do my, my taxes. You know, I tried to do my taxes for so many years on my own. And it was a disaster. And, you know, I'm like, hoping that, you know, those years just fall behind because I'm like, I don't know if I did it right. You know, I wish that I just hired someone. Now I'm like, I don't I just would rather pay someone and it's an investment you know, even if it's expensive at the time, it's so worth it.
Justin Trosclair 1:02:15
almost have to if you're gonna have all these different avenues of a making money. Yeah, other people underneath you. I definitely wouldn't trust myself to
know I haven't. I haven't done it in a while. But I think back like, you know, when when you're new, and you're trying to like bootstrap everything, and you're just like, Oh, I could do my own website, you know, like, yeah, that's
Justin Trosclair 1:02:34
not a good idea. Now bookkeepers, another story. Oh, you shouldn't be doing your own bookkeeping. And I get that only takes, you know, talking to the audience here. That doesn't take very much like put your expenses in like a QuickBooks to get an account.
Yeah, that is good. I've looked into I've always done my own bookkeeping, and I've recently been looking into, you know, they have these like, $200 a month, like an online bookkeeping team. And I'm just like, like, it's, it's a lot, but it's also like, what can they really do? That's, like, so amazing that I can't do you know,
Justin Trosclair 1:03:06
you're gonna attempt all my bank accounts?
Yeah, it is kind of it is kind of weird. Or I think like, how will they know what these charges are? And like, how to categorize them? You know? That's, I think you kind of have to know, like, what my life is to get to know how somebody if I have to do this much work, might
Justin Trosclair 1:03:21
as well just done it myself. If I have to like,
yeah, yeah, like, okay, there's like these 25 things that you don't know what how to categorize them are what they are like, are they business expenses or not, then that, yeah, that would be a lot of extra work. I feel like people use like, mint.com
Justin Trosclair 1:03:36
yeah, I have used mint. There's also something that I tried is called wave app. And it's an online accounting software. And they'll do like payroll, they'll do a lot of stuff. They do like credit card processing. And I always liked it. But I recently switched to QuickBooks. So now I'm just on QuickBooks into it, whatever it's called. Now,
Justin Trosclair 1:03:55
what do you take for payment? As? Are you stripe online? I do pay pal.
Yeah. So I send out notices through PayPal, PayPal is kind of cool to actually send you like a 1099 k at the end of the year with all the money that you've collected through them. So I mean, it's, it's kind of like, it's kind of cool. It keeps everything organized. But yeah, I mean, that's a 3% fee. Right? Um, you know, I don't think that there's anything I don't know that you can find any company that's doing payment processing that's less than 3%. So okay,
Justin Trosclair 1:04:24
yeah, that's fantastic that because if you're doing a lot of online stuff, there's you know, there's stripe, there's like real terminals these days that you can do online and all these different companies. I was like, what she's actually using the
I used to use square a lot more in person when I can actually swipe a card. But now I mean, square, if you just pin it, like enter and onto your phone. It's like 4.25%, or at least it was I mean, I haven't looked at it in a while. But it was a lot. I was like, Okay, I can't do that. So many people PayPal invoices. I mean, they do. It's, it seems it's really simple. Like if you have PayPal for business, I'm actually amazed how good it is. So yeah, and
Justin Trosclair 1:05:01
you they never taking your money and
held hostage, I'll give it back. No, actually, the more you use them, the more they like, like I could get same day like I can get instant transfers now like the money that's in PayPal. Now, it didn't they didn't always offer this to me, it used to be like, Okay, well, we'll hold your money for three days, and then you can, you know, will transfer it. But now it's always within same day, or they gave me the option recently, which I had never seen before do instant transfers. So I think if you if you use PayPal a lot, if you do a lot of transactions with them. And probably if it's higher amounts, then they're there, they start giving you more benefits. So I
Justin Trosclair 1:05:39
think though people that get in trouble with it is they launch, like if you were to launch your program, and you were new, and you had 200 doctors by a $700 program and PayPal and they're like, Oh, that's a lot of money. Yeah. And they can make this deny everything and you like no, that's my life preparing for this grand opening. And this is what happens in your life.
Yeah, that would be really, luckily, I haven't had bad experiences with PayPal, but I know other people have. I've actually had maybe two people tell me like, I refuse to use PayPal, I won't do business with that company. So I'm gonna have to pay you in a different way. And I'm like, okay, so I know people have had bad experiences with it. Every once while I get someone who's like, Can I mail you a check? And I'm like,
okay, you know, it
Justin Trosclair 1:06:23
just wrapped your cash and a blank piece of paper.
rather not have to check.
I mean, luckily now they have like, you know, apps that you can deposit a check, you know, you can take a picture of it, and it will deposit it without you having to go to the bank. But
Justin Trosclair 1:06:37
yeah, it's a risky sometimes I hate to say it a checks risky. But you get one or two bad. Looking at people differently.
Yeah, exactly. I know. So okay, before we go,
Justin Trosclair 1:06:49
any favorite books, podcasts, blogs that we should check out?
I think and he might even be a good person to have on your show. Actually, there's who Taiko breathing pattern practitioner. His name is Patrick McEwen. And all of his books are really good. His latest book is called the oxygen advantage. And he he does potato breathing, but he's also put a spin on it. And he's doing like a lot of athletic training. So he talks about nasal breathing and the benefits of nasal breathing, during exercise and for anxiety. And so what he does pairs really well with what I do, and he is like one of the nicest people I've ever met. So, and you know, he's, he's kind of a, like, famous guy in my world, too. So, you know, the first time I met him, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I got to meet Patrick McEwen. You know, I've read all his books. And, you know, like, I was saying doctors Auggie, like a celebrity in our field. So this is boo boo Taiko breathing? who take Oh, yeah, so it's bu t y. k. Oh, and it started in Russia. And it's a really fascinating breathing technique. But I think of all the people who teach it, Patrick McEwen has really done I mean, he makes it easy to understand. And, you know, he talks about the science. So Alex, currently, which is, you know, kind of dry, complicated stuff. And he's Irish. So he's got his Irish accent that's really easy to listen to. And sometimes I'm like, you know what to say. But he's, he's just a super nice guy, just a good human. So and then who else do I think? If you want to look up someone, like kind of, like really interesting and semi controversial? There's a guy named Gowdy Aguilar, who's the founder of functional patterns. And he is doing I don't even know I guess human biomechanics is what he calls it, but it's super fascinating. And it's really he's he's doing things that I've never seen anyone else do with the human body and connecting dots that I haven't ever heard of connected before with like fascia and
you know, these chains of movement that we have that I'm not a physical therapist or and you know, I'm not a I'm not in that world, but he is doing stuff with the muscles and human movement and stuff that I've never seen before. So functional patterns he's in interesting one to look up those two people I follow and I feel like I learned so much from them so very cool.
Justin Trosclair 1:09:05
It's always fun to meet the guru or the person that's like a star you're halfway Gosh,
yeah, yeah, I like it too. So what's your website? Again? My website is my face ology calm so NY, fa CE, o l o g y dot
Justin Trosclair 1:09:21
and the other one was my old mentor.
Yeah, my old mentor so and why Oh, me and to our but if you google Sarah Hornsby, or face ology, which is the name of my practice, a lot of stuff should come up. So
Justin Trosclair 1:09:33
good. Wow, this has been fantastic. I learned a ton. We went marketing, we went all over the place business practices a little bit good. I really appreciate you spending all this time and being so open and sharing with the audience today. And definitely hope that will reach out to you and you'll be able to for internal marketing for yourself.
Yeah, I hope so too. Yeah, no, that'd be awesome. And I appreciate you, you know, asking all this stuff. I feel like a lot of times I when I do these podcasts, and I do interviews and stuff nobody ever asked about the business side of and that's, I feel like that's actually a big passion of mine. And I think someday down the road, I don't I'm not so busy and I can kind of transition a bit, you know, something that's come out of all the stuff that I'm doing is I'm super passionate about people starting businesses, especially like women in business, I just feel like there I want to be able to do something somewhere down the road, you know, of supporting women who want to start businesses and who want to like forge out on their own and, you know, I just feel like I didn't come from a family of business people, I've had to learn all this stuff on my own, like, you know, the, the the MBA of real life, you know, so it's hard You know, so I like learning from people like you and you know, connecting with other healthcare business owners because there's there it's a challenge you know, so, but we can all learn from each other. And I love that.
Justin Trosclair 1:10:52
That wraps up another episode or remind everybody that we have some great affiliate links available. If you're into insurance, assisted soft tissue manipulation, we've got the edge tool, and we got the hot grips, sage about 10%. Also with the edge, you've got the like blood pressure cuff restrictions system, you got the G sweet inexpensive Mr. In case you talk to him cash practice. If you want to know what hosting I'll use for podcasting, blueberry, peer VPN, it's one of those ones I use to help keep my payments secure as well as access the internet more safely. You've got the primal paleo grass fed protein bone broth style, save 10% on that no sugar, allergy free, gluten free, dairy free, all those types of things mentor box get taught by the author, we got set preset for those floss bands. And you may have heard about on one of the episodes really like those in the Amazon products that you might want to click the link in the show notes pages. And of course, I got my own electric acupuncture pin to go with the needle acupuncture book on time, you know, have a bundle set, we can get them all together for a great price. also have the free downloads at doctor's perspective, net slash blueprints. And more lately I've been doing is substituting official one like I've done a neat and depend on the guest, I might do a different type. So check back there. So all those resources can be found a doctor's perspective, net slash resources. There's also t shirts at.net slash t shirts, put up some new designs from time to time, like making lemons out of lemonade, shrimp po boy plus all the Chiropractic and podcast swag that you could want. If you have any ideas for guests, please send an email Justin at a doctor's perspective. NET I'd love to hear who you think would be good or a profession that you may not have heard yet. If you can send me review that's dot net slash subscribe Apple, Google stitcher Android devices, you just click that button it'll take you exactly that a page you need to you can write a review, hopefully a five star review. I said it does help for other people to discover what we're doing here. And we've got over 100 episodes is gonna be like our third year super excited. We're going a little mini series like we've been doing, which has been fun. I hope you've enjoyed them as well. That's that's the feedback I've gotten. And one thing I haven't really talked about too much is the doctor's perspective. NET slash support page to provide a host a couple of coffee, go for it. If you want to pledge a little higher fee there's buttons for that does even monthly recurring for those who feel like wow, this is like the cheapest mentor coach program I've ever seen because you interview so many different kinds of doctors and and have been able to implement things that I've heard and it works but monthly recurring payments, which also you can get you my books for free t shirts for free. The first book, you know that deals with health and exercise, getting on a diet, getting your financial health in order as well. things to learn in China, you know that books is available as well. And one thing that I don't have I don't have like a full blown page about coaching and things. But there's a little button there. I've had people request Hey, doctors and non doctors asking me can I do more than just answer a couple of questions or could you be my coach for a little while? And I say yeah, we can do that. So something I haven't really advertised but it's something that I can do and do whether it's marketing strategies for new patient growth. Those types of topics. If you're interested just email me Justin at a doctor's perspective. NET as always, listen, critically think and implement Have a great week.
We just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen and integrate with some of these guests have said by all means please share across your social media rather review and you go to the show notes page to find all the references for today's guests. You've been listening to Dr. Justin shows Claire giving you a doctor's perspective.
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