Justin Trosclair 0:02
13 trust in the data not to just intros Claire.

Today, we hear from the model vision creator David Mark herons, perspective

for doctors who want a thriving practice and abundant homeless, listen as your host, Dr. Justin trust Claire goes behind the curtain can interviews doctors and guess about real world trial

Unknown 0:24
struggles, practical tips and entertainment On this episode, a doctor’s perspective.

Justin Trosclair 0:30
Today on the show, we have a special guest today, David more carrion of my vision. We talk about, of course, the product and why, why he invented it. But also, we go into more details about data. And if you can have objective findings as way better than subjective findings. Court cases, we thought about advice on for students what they can do, we’re going to tangents about his his hobbies with car racing, and his dear friend, Frank, so I think you’re going to enjoy it. I know I sure did. So let’s go hashtag behind the curtain show notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective, net slash one three.

Very excited today, we have the inventor of the mile vision, which has been in business for 26 years. David Markarian,

Unknown 1:22
welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been so great to me, you’re just such an interesting character.

Unknown 1:29
Appreciate that.

Justin Trosclair 1:31
Well, I, I heard some some different things about mile vision. I use it myself when I was in clinic in Colorado. So I’m kind of familiar with it. But I know it’s has some upgrades. So this podcast is for lots of different types of doctors. Give us that kind of your background, and NASA, the nh a grant and then what this software and this hardware actually does.

Unknown 1:52
So what I did, I was I had an undergrad and physics masters and psycho physiology, I was with a spacecraft. And I was noticing that these were looking at hand controllers used to fly the F 16 and putting them into a helicopter cockpit. And it turned a futuristic one. And it turned out that the the those that were using, it would get out of the simulator with phenomenal scores, but their arms were hurting them. And I’d be like, how do we quantify this because, you know, that’s what they’re saying. But even back then, when I was 25 years old, I used to always go, you know, objective data is way more important to me, you know, I want to know, and so I took and developed a surf technique, which utilizes the same thing as EKG technology, which is the measurement of all those D polarization is under the skin, very difficult to do at the time either put them in a big metal cage, to eliminate electrical interference, and measured muscle activity of the arms of these people and prove that this other hand controller was a better way to solve the problem. And that end up getting published. Lead me to receive this was at NASA space program that led me to receive a I wrote a proposal in the NIH, the National Institutes of Health in the us at 20. said they couldn’t ask how old you were back then. They weren’t allowed to. They gave me a half million dollars, it was 450,000 plus 50. But a half million dollars at 27 years old to design and build the my average in the UC now. Except for my the new one is wireless and a completely different design is the one in 1986 or 88, or whatever it was. So things have changed. But at that point, the interesting part was a chiropractor from Medford, Oregon, who’s famous. He’s He’s one of the guys that got arrested in New York for practicing medicine without a license. His name was McKelvin bill McKelvey and called me up and he said, David, this thing can be used for chiropractors. I’m like, I didn’t, I didn’t get him. Like how I didn’t understand. I didn’t know chiropractic very well. My next door neighbor was a current and he was crazy. I mean, I used to love having fun. That is GTO. But that’s all I knew about chiropractic. And then I just said, you know, this would be interesting is the scientists, you don’t say, you know, it’s the most important thing we learned at NASA is just because you can’t measure it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, the subway station, right? It’s there. But just because you can’t measure it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It’s a real phenomena. So I said, Sure, why not? Let’s go to his office, like go to his office. And I tell people all day long, looking at the back of the spinal pair, spinal muscles, and they, it was amazing to me that that pattern of muscle activity about the spine correlated completely with all the problems they had. And that was it. I was sold. I got my first adjustment.

Justin Trosclair 4:45
So so the basics of it was just the measure the arm, and then somebody caught wind of what you were doing was like, hey, let’s modify this and try for the back.

Unknown 4:55
Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what happened. That was like 1990, or something like that a long time time ago, and exactly what happened. And so then I measured the muscle activity, the back and led me to go wow, this is absolutely amazing. And then before you knew it, you’d see these muscle tension patterns that correlated with their problems. And at the time, there was, you know, there was no one that understood this was very difficult to do. And the process of measuring the promises electrical interference everywhere, which is why I’m the only company left actually, there’s literally no other companies and in China, the largest, the company that’s, that uses a machine that cost like $50,000 recently tested them, I have vision against it, and they call me and they said, your machine works better or equal to our $50,000 machine. And the professor who designed it wanted to know he called me to thank he was like, I want to know what you did. I’m the expert in China, I wrote the book on service, em, gee, and I go there, we’re using the same measurement technique in the front end. And that’s why it’s separate. Cut, I was involved in design of the device. They did too. And so anyways, the point is that the device to get rid of electrical interference has been the biggest issue is service CMG. And that’s what I was doing. And that was why it works. So well. The my office and work so well.

Justin Trosclair 6:16
Wow. Nine, and since then, you’ve created more like dynamic range of motion products as well. Right?

Unknown 6:22
Yeah. So that so what happened with that, that so what happened was I it’s funny, I learned this from teaching chiropractors now, but I learned it from them. It’s like they talked about muscle guarding and splinting right. And, and that function function is so important, that’s symptoms. So what happened, all’s I did was say, Wow, if we can, you know, people would use range of motion to measure if there’s injury. And the problem with it is that we see 40 to 50% of the patients have like a yoga instructor, for example, completely normal range of motion, but is in pain, and they have muscle guarding. And all’s I did was say, Wow, if I combined the ability to measure most regarding with range of motion, then we would have a very valuable tool because it would be more sensitive to the actual pain they’re experiencing. And guess what? The American Medical Association recognize what I was saying and put it in their book on range of motion and is now the standard tool in the world. So all I do is graph range of motion, not just measure the end point value, graph range of motion and muscle guarding simultaneously. And that way it shows even with normal range of motion that there’s muscle guarding, and it also shows that someone’s faking injury to it makes no difference. It tells the truth.

Justin Trosclair 7:37
So if you’re doing a certain neck motion, and the SEM shouldn’t be firing, but it is firing, you’re like, Oh, you don’t have as much range of motion. And so you can quantify objective findings a couple weeks later, like, okay, now it’s not even firing and like it’s Yes,

Unknown 7:53
exactly. And it correlates very highly with oswestry, you know, if they’re telling the truth, it shows, and it’s a great way to know and someone’s reached that point. And it’s what ended me up on. That’s how I ended up on the show law and order. There’s a new law and order series called you the jury. You’ll see it next month. And you’re going to see me as the stars for witness and how is it that I replaced all the MDS and everyone else on the show with

Unknown 8:19
myself? How did I end up on the show as the expert witness, because I had data to prove that this patient was not lying, that the plaintiff was not lying. And it’s a real jury trial shown on TV in the US, the whole world becomes the jury. They vote on it be online or whatever, that’s how it’s going to work. But it’s a real trial. And so that’s the point is that data and opinion, opinions and old school concept, you know, and, and you know, where I learned, you know, the other thing I want sort of researches the chiropractic arena, guess who is also huge on data in the chiropractic arena. The inventor, right, BJ Palmer was Yeah, you should see the photos I go to I go to Palmer College, and I and every ones like we just need her hands. And I would take him downstairs and I show them the neuro and temple that graph, the only person I remembered know that knew how to say it was Frank’s devinsky, a close friend of mine who passed away a couple years ago, but he would know how to say it so well. But also you can go down and Palmer. And it’s amazing how many students haven’t seen it. But you can look at all the graphs that he did. He actually measured with the SEM, every patient, but he had if you go into his lab, he had measure blood pressure he met measured everything. And he knew back then how powerful objective data was in establishing. Now if you look at the history, in 1926, chiropractic was unknown. He introduced the NCS and it 26. By 1931, chiropractic was literally the number one alternative provider of health care, because we had objective data to show. So even back in the 1930s this was so powerful. Wow, I’m just doing I’m just doing BJ Palmer’s work now. That’s all.

Justin Trosclair 9:59
Yeah, I keep saying that technology is finally caught up to what we already knew.

Unknown 10:03
Right. Exactly.

Justin Trosclair 10:05
And I didn’t know that and think about NASA that kind of fits right in and you just because you can’t measure it doesn’t mean it’s not out there.

Unknown 10:09
Yeah, exactly.

Justin Trosclair 10:10
That’s pretty cool. Well, what about? Everybody wants to know, research, obviously, in ha wouldn’t have given you money if it wasn’t capable of proven it. But now with lawyers and PCI and all this kind of stuff. Have you ever had to go to court to prove that this actually works?

Unknown 10:29
Go To Court, go to court, I live in court. It’s It’s so that you know, the biggest so that this is funny, because this is this, this is the second other than the wolves case, the largest case in chiropractic history was, is the technology developed, valid. And so the state of Florida said no, is not valid. And a true warrior for chiropractic. Richard married, he’s a chiropractor in Lakeland, Florida. He challenged this rule and call there we want to the chiropractic profession saying, look we’re getting if if they win this Now the key here is that if they won this case, and they establish there’s no validity, this tool, their real goal was to eliminate chiropractors from treating soft tissue patients. That’s what they’re trying to do. They knew this tool could prove soft tissue was real, meaning chiropractors, the expert on soft tissue could then treat them. So if they eliminated it, in this, in this case, the whole United States, it would wipe out the technology. So he called and this looked like a little case, it was the state of Florida. And he’s you know, saying this isn’t this is a unapproved diagnostic device. And he called everyone. I’m not kidding. Everyone was scared to death of this that one person showed up except for me. So it ended up being me now the state of Florida you can read it at WWW dot Dinah ROM info.com the entire cases there because no one believes it happen. Well, it’s public record, you can read it. And so what ended up happening was it was myself against the state of Florida who was then joined by all the insurance companies United States, so then suddenly, it was me on my own with Richard merit, but me as the only expert witness to testify on behalf of this. They had nine expert witnesses, including an MD PhD, 75 attorneys, 300 insurance companies, and they spent millions and the best part I had a month and a half before trial, I get a call from my lawyer saying hey, man can represent any Margo, what. And he said, believe it or not state farms firm bought our firm. You can imagine the millions they spent doing that. So they created a conflict of interest. So suddenly, I had to get a new lawyer but karma as it is, my lawyer was better. And you want you to watch the video of the superior court case on the diner. I’m info.com and see how it was him with a roomful attorneys on the other side and just one attorney to like it isn’t a car battery. And it’s always us as the rebels against the entire, you know, the the conformist. And we always end up winning, right? Well, this we won the case and went from that we won the lower court decision, the large It was 47 pages long. Normally they’re like five day pages 47 she covered every research study, knowing that it was going to be challenged. And she was a scientist by training, which is how they had her be the judge. And when Superior Court which we want unanimously and went all the way to the Supreme Court of Florida, which rejected the appeal. So now why did the chiropractor perfect This is important because it drives me crazy about the this one of the negatives about this profession is politics plays such a role so often for no good reason. Believe it or not, I had competitors at the time. And essentially the calls I got from the current all the different journals out there. With the exception of American chiropractor, that’s the one that said we don’t care. They all were paid advertising fees to not publish this. So in other words, competitors paid money to different journals. And they all said, Well, we won’t publish it if you advertise with us, this other other companies, and that’s why this, they never got published, but it is public record more people and finding out about it now. But it led to a CBD code for billing it. It led to its validity. And every job it’s been used to establish admissibility in every state in the country at this point. So it’s huge and including an England by the way.

Justin Trosclair 14:34
That’s amazing. I mean, that’s a story that I never knew about. I mean, when I was researching what what products should I buy because there was your product and another one that was probably four or five times more expensive. Yeah. And you look at it and you read everything and like well this sounds sounds good you know this is why people recommended and then now you have like the validity behind it that it’s actually proven to do what it does right which is all about

Unknown 14:58
yeah and then the this further studies on the answer the question, this is the interesting part. They try to make the claim that needle em gee is the gold standard. So one of the things I do in the courtroom arena is I love to do this with experts they say how many since needle Liam Geez, the gold standard and service CMG is not how many more studies are there a needle em gee then surface and they always and I say five times more would you guess six times 10 they go six times more and then I show them the PubMed search guess how many studies there are needle em gee 2200 guess how many on surface as of today? 9300. There is four times more studies that in surfacing mg the needle em gee wiping out their entire argument.

Justin Trosclair 15:42
Well, so that must cover all types of different conditions in terms of the body as well.

Unknown 15:47
Yes, application is the point is that that what I say to them is look they’re different tools needle mg looks for nerve damage. Service, CMG looks for muscle guarding muscle tension states it looks for the compensation sublimation that’s what it’s doing different measurements completely. We can’t prove nerve damage with service CMG. They can’t show soft tissue injury with needle em gee totally different tools

Justin Trosclair 16:11
Did you did you have to farm out the actual software to make it a visual for the doctors actually in a patient’s to understand what’s going on or I mean what was that how was that

Unknown 16:21
I’m a control freak man are you kidding we manufacture here in the United States and you know it’s funny in China they’re buying our stuff in China now they want merican made stuff they came to my plan to prove that I actually make here because everybody manufacturers in China but I don’t everyone’s recognizing the quality is so great because we may in fact you’re here but I do everything and how some of the only company everyone else firms out there stuff to contractors are only competitor which is pretty much gone at this point. He actually the guy who was the head of it has been removed from the company about five years ago but they they were relying on a third party to supply hardware and another party to do so software because no one’s really committed fully committed to this because I believe in it which means that I do all the design and I have in house and it’s very expensive. We do all of our design in house and we manufacture we manufacture in the United States ourselves where the actual legal manufacturer of the product so

Justin Trosclair 17:20
are there any knockoffs in China yet like the impulse IQ, you know, they have a they have all kinds of knockoffs now I’m just curious now. Yeah,

Unknown 17:28
there yet. So what’s happened in China with me? It’s been very interesting. I’m not sure if I’m legally allowed to discuss it. But there. Yeah, there’s no, it’s actually I patented in China. And it was something that was good because things have changed. They used to just copy stuff all the time. Now, they’re trying to recognize that their world, you know, this is a world market. And they’re not doing that the same way anymore. So as soon as like there was someone who’s going to knock it off as soon as they saw the patent. Instead, they contacted me and said, Let’s work together.

Justin Trosclair 17:59
Oh, that’s good, bro. Good.

Unknown 18:00
Yeah, I thought it was great. I was so impressed, you know that they did that. So yes, there’s no and they’re so huge that I don’t have to worry about anybody else doing a knockoff? Because they’ll wipe them out. So yeah. Yeah.

Justin Trosclair 18:13
What kind of products do you see? I guess it’s a double question. What type of products do you wish there were in the market or need to be developed? And are there more just fad based products that need to just go away? What are you seeing?

Unknown 18:26
So I think what’s really good about what’s going on in the refresh right now. And you can see it by going to one of the Parker seminars, as an example. Is that and this is because of your age group. But what do you are you like 1718? You’re like the youngest chiropractor in the world?

Justin Trosclair 18:41
I mean, usually, yeah. Know about 34?

Unknown 18:43
Are you really well, I thought you were like 21, and 22. So the cool thing about your age group is you are that originally, almost all chiropractic, that were that the concept was one of just dogma, we just follow what a leader tells us, us. And everything was about dogma. And, and I always been about data, screw the dogma. Now your age group, and younger is about data and dogma. So what’s happened is, if you go to Parker, for example, all of the nonsense garbage that was out there, and this one of the biggest problems when it comes to buying these machines, is that people that buy them they’ve been, it’s amazing how many docs have bought, because of a man, a management consultant said, Hey, you need to buy this machine, even though it’s worthless, because they’re getting 500 to $1,000 of each machine. Those that your age group put an end to that, because you’re like, there’s like you did when you looked at by machines, you know, you actually compare them, and you test them out. And we’re like, wow, this machine costs less, and is way faster and works way better. And the reproducibility is there. And so that’s what’s put an end like he go to Parker now. And five years ago, the big giant booths with companies selling stuff that were nonsense, gone. So that’s so cool to see that if it’s not real, like the impulse, like he’s a great example, great product, right? And it’s there, he’s doing well, there was another company out there, which sold the machine the cost 20 times more, right? Remember that? Yeah. The guy is not even allowed in the United States anymore. I mean, that’s what’s happened is like, you know, the, it’s cool to see that, that we matured, we’ve developed instead of dog. And we’ve developed real critical thinking skills. Instead of, you know, cynicism, we develop critical thinking skills, and we actually are, as a profession are growing up and recognizing, hey, let’s look and see what really is going on here and not listen to. And everyone’s is called in the social psychology literature is called the the Enlightenment effect. Everyone’s been enlightened and realize these guys are just getting paid to say this. They don’t even know what it does, they’ve never even used it. So you know, this isn’t about trusting them. It’s about what makes sense,

Justin Trosclair 20:58
right? And it’s the same with one of these decompression tables. They had the one that’s 10 or 15. And now and then they had the one I was like, 100, hundred and 25. And right now if they even are in business anymore,

Unknown 21:10
well, they got in real trouble. So the FTC you know, I mean, the the fines I’m privy to the information there the fines were in the millions for for the the Miss, you know, the Miss. So there’s the whole, like that whole thing about the NASA claims that people make, you know, NASA. Turns out, there’s a thing called the space foundation. And it’s not NASA is not even related to NASA, I mean, it’s literally of organization set up to try to, you know, market stuff. And you can pay 35 grand and and get that space foundation certification, and you’re supposed to have a relationship to NASA. But it turns out, that is not true. There’s been so many that claimed it, and were fooled into it. And so now you see, those things are all disappearing. And and people smart, like you go, what’s interesting to 15,000, instead of going my management consultant said by this, because he’s getting 30 grand off each one, you actually go, what’s the difference? Look at the actual technology, use it, test it and go, Wow, the $15,000 one does just a good job as the other one does. Why would I spend 100 grand on it? Right? Right. So wives, so they’re going to stop, the nonsense is going away. The solid products like my vision, like the impulse IQ, that these products are emerging now. And also in the management consulting area, you see, all the big ones have kind of disappeared. And the ones like Frank’s devinsky, who are just like, telling the truth, are the ones emerging as as because they were telling the truth, because they were being honest. And because it wasn’t about money, because that’s my change, you know, we’ve got some real, real ethical individuals that are really coming through now with the goods. And again, I attributed to your age group. I really do. Because if it wasn’t, if it weren’t, we’d be in the same state we were, where everyone just follows whoever man, when I used to teach when I teach it at the schools 15 years ago, they go, but so and so told me this is better. Now they go show me.

Justin Trosclair 23:09
Yeah, and I think the schools are part of that as well, because everything’s double blind research base. Yeah. And you get hammered that enough times when you start looking at products. Especially, you know, products that aren’t $100 you know, it’s this isn’t,

Unknown 23:22
right, this isn’t a back brace. So you know,

Justin Trosclair 23:24
you gotta you gotta really do your research and right, yeah, everything you said, I mean, I agree with it. Yep. Now, being that you have a product company, have you expand it? Like, we always talk about like marketing, and I asked, you know, regular doctors and clinic, what’s your top two or three best marketing? You have a product, but you still have to mark? What is your best marketing? And then Have you ever marketed outside of the chiropractic profession?

Unknown 23:47
Well, right now, the the medical professions, totally it absorbing this, because

Unknown 23:55
I’ve been seeing what it does in that it actually establishes while we can, we can now provide objective proof of subjective complaints. That’s what’s been the big thing. And so we’re seeing a huge change there. But in the chiropractic arena, the thing that I just you know, I really want and everyone’s seen this is that the the marketing to PII attorneys has been huge in the States because no one else does a good job with soft tissue as good a job as chiropractors. And so all they needed, though, was a tool to prove, put it this way, a cardiologist has an EKG to establish what they’re doing, right? Correct. All chiropractors needed was a tool that’s real, not a pretend one, but a tool that’s real, that can function like the EKG for spinal health. And that’s what I provide. Now in the medical arena. They’re using this for we also manufacturer device, it’s used for treatment, and it’s used in 12 hospitals in the United States. And it actually measures muscle activity and video simultaneously. So they can, you can rehab individuals a very powerful tool called pro forma vision. And there’s a lot of cool things that I’m doing. Nobody knows about. And, but the, you know, the I think, cool, one of my favorite things about the marketing of as far as the my vision for chiropractic, I love both science, having solid science and then cool marketing at the same time. So have you seen the East campaign where you do a test and you send it to their phone?

Justin Trosclair 25:26
Oh, no,

Unknown 25:27
it’s the coolest thing in the world. So every time you do a test on a patient with a static EMT, or range of motion, or any of them, you can hit this button, put their email address, and it sends a test right to their phone. And the test results end up showing. And they they just try to imagine what happens when the patient goes to lunch. 10 seconds later, they get it in their email with a customized message. And I patent this, by the way, they get in an email, and it shows there. And it shows that your test results and the thing, why didn’t come up with this stuff. Because chiropractors were complaining to their patients, everyone knows this, they leave, they don’t remember anything you said. So I said if I can produce something that’s objective, that shows this the condition of their spine in an objective way and send it to their email with everyone having giant smartphones, then guess what everybody is going to, to get reinforced for, for what you said along with a message that’s embedded in the graphic. And it ended up being just a huge head. It’s called a scan. And it’s it just makes it so that you’re taking advantage of these large smartphones. And I’ll send one to you. But you sent get to take advantage of the large smartphones, and then you end up seeing this just you know, patients running around going to lunch afterwards and showing them look how cool my chiropractor is, you know, and this one’s the you can see this one’s the range of motion one.

Unknown 26:54
But at the bottom, it actually has all your contact information embedded in it.

Justin Trosclair 26:59
Well, that seems like the night natural progression of things where we’ve been doing here, print this out, print this out, and now it’s just email it to me, I can screenshot it and share it on social media. Because you know, people do that. Yeah, or they just have it, they can email it to their spouse, like you said, That’s really nice. I didn’t know that was even a thing.

Unknown 27:16
Oh, you gotta tell you the coolest thing about it. By far, the coolest thing was in beta testing, and every chiropractor will will relate to this. And beta testing the number of female patients that said, Oh my God, who is who let’s say they went in originally, everyone says, Oh, they can go in there. They went in there originally because they were in pain from something or other. And then they want to still see their chiropractor. But guess who at home is telling them that? That they you know that? Why are you still seeing the chiropractor, their husband, right? The number of female patients that received this, like it’s 10 seconds and received it at 10 seconds later. And they so you can see here’s the static, they would take this and hit the forward button forward to their husband.

Unknown 28:04
And it was like screw you see, I need I need my chiropractor. But better than that. Guess what the result was tell me their their husbands would come in for a test.

Justin Trosclair 28:16
See now there we go that now we’re referring that’s that’s the key right there.

Unknown 28:19
Well, guys are into gadgets, right?

Unknown 28:22
Yeah. So the

Justin Trosclair 28:23
red bar red means bad. I don’t want any more red bars. And I’ve got lots.

Unknown 28:27
Yeah, exactly. And that’s what ended up happening. And so they would just come in for the test. And then it may go What is this I want to know and, and but you know how cool it made the chiropractor look that they actually that’s the thing patients want to be considered. They want to be admired. So when they hold this up, they want to be admired for choosing a chiropractor that has one of these, okay, you know, this chiropractor is unique is your stress score, the lower the better, or the higher the better, the lower the better. So what happens is over time, it’s like blood pressure, you measure it and use it as a way of tracking progress. So they’d be stress scores a sum of all the muscle activity over time. So it’s looking at the muscle activity about the spine, sorry, the whole all those readings added up or the be stress score and the VA hospital did a study on this and found that it correlated like point nine nine with oswestry or vs score. So about a hundreds about a normal but in general, everyone’s gonna be a little bit different. But what you do is you just use it to track their progress and instantly see the change and do pre and post adjustment tests. It’s unbelievable. You see pre and post of, you know, a 30% reduction in muscle activity proposed adjustment for anyone who’s skeptical about chiropractic boom, you’re all set up immediately. Immediately. Yeah, they get and they get it in 10 seconds. And the does an overlay where you can actually see the the pre and post one on top of another. Wow.

Justin Trosclair 29:53
But then I’m great. He was showing me the screen on the on Skype. And it was really it says exactly what you’d expect they have the body’s got the bars just like you would if you printed it off, so it’s very easy to see us. Awesome yellow us awesome. Read rands bad yellow is I think the muscles of just sort of

Unknown 30:09
shut down. So yellow can be both high and lower important because high readings or acute low readings are chronic for most cases. So when you see a suddenly and like this case, you’re looking at somebody who had Believe it or not, this person they’re compensating with muscles firing the mid three readings are high in the mid thoracic see other really low in the low back. I said your worst problems in the lower right and guess what it was because that’s super low reading is the muscle going to contracture state meaning that the readings are low because the muscles have bulked up and shortened. Because that’s what they do. The body’s natural defense mechanism, the pain is muscle guarding muscle guarding turns into the muscles actually bulking up and shortening because it’s more efficient to not fire electrically, and they create like a weightlifters muscle to create that and that’s why it looks like it’s really super low. So in most cases, that’s what it means. So just high and low are important. Have you

Justin Trosclair 31:02
ever noticed a lot of MRIs here, and the little mortify they tend to turn into fat at that l for to L five area? I just look at them all the time. And they’re like, Oh, just kind of, you know, I got a little bowls. And like, Yeah, well, it’s probably been there for quite a while because those muscles are now just fat. Yeah. Have you ever seen any correlations with that, or that’s all

Unknown 31:24
other study. It’s a whole nother study. But the reality is the correlation between by the correlation between X ray and MRI is huge. I mean, sorry, X ray. And static E and G is huge. Clearly, because you see biomechanical issues, create muscular compensation, scoliosis, the best example there’s published studies showing that you can just look at muscle activity and it correlates with the school yada curve completely. And as you work on it, and every dentist Wogan stuff, he’s able to use a static E and G to use it for treatment to when you work someone’s muscles, you can use it to, to provide them with feedback that they’re actually, you know, using, he uses a cool device that it’s a bar that he rotates, it weighs a lot of lot, turns it you know and into the curve so that he’s able to create a muscular compensation for it and help to treat it but the key is that it does so the MRI stuff is that what’s what’s what’s going on right now, though is the MRI is you know, is 40% of the time shows an abnormal Mariah the patients are asymptomatic. So where the dying around motion em gee comes in is that it’s correlates much higher, with actual pain state, then MRI does. And so it’s being used more and more. Now, that’s where the medical arena is acknowledging it, that while we need to do this as a pre test, MRI, and an MRI is great. It’s just for evaluating for, you know, for other things looking for tumor, you can look for all kinds of stuff and MRI. But as far as like soft tissue, you have an auto accident, for example, your memorize not going to be abnormal, necessarily, you know, but you’re going to will be in the muscle guarding state from paint soft tissue pain, you know, that’s so that’s why the data around seems to be so powerful in those cases. So

Justin Trosclair 33:07
yeah, it’s like, you may not be able to raise up your arm. But when you do an MRI, you’re like, well,

Unknown 33:10
your your arms fine. Exactly. It’s not fine, because it hurts.

Unknown 33:14
Exactly. So that’s the point is I’m showing that, again, objective proof of subjective complaints. That’s what we’re doing. Okay, so yeah, it’s been really killer that way.

Unknown 33:23
All right.

Justin Trosclair 33:24
Well, I hope the audience isn’t, this isn’t just one big sales pitch is actually conquering the the science and we’re learning not just about a product, but how everything correlates together and how we can use without what’s out there to prove what we’re doing. Yes, companies, for the patients for referrals, and everything else. I’m really enjoying this conversation. I mean, this is good stuff.

Unknown 33:44
Can I ask you a question? Sure. So what impresses you more, and this is where I get people really confused. Okay, what impresses you more, as the expert you are as a chiropractor, when someone presents their opinion about something, or when someone shows you data, which we what impresses you more,

Unknown 34:01
I like the data,

Unknown 34:02
right. And that’s the public. You know, it’s it’s, and for some reason, it’s really important. Remember, this isn’t a personal thing, because a lot of chiropractors feel like, everyone should just trust what I say. And it just doesn’t work like that anymore. You know, and mechanics show you a print out using the plugin device into the car to show you a code that spit out. And that’s how they make decisions about what to do with a car. Why would that not happen in chiropractic? Everything is turned into data.

Justin Trosclair 34:31
But when they when they show me Oh, is your cars misaligned here? Here? I’m like, I don’t I see the little graphs that I’m just like,

Unknown 34:37
a so is this bad?

Justin Trosclair 34:39
Is it time to do it? He’s like, Well, you know, at this point, yes, I would say you need to do it. So you just got to critically think he’s like, well, they’re make their up sales on on this kind of stuff. But when you see the data, you’re like, well, that does seem pretty horrible.

Unknown 34:50
Ya know that that was alignment, things are amazing. They come out with a graph, and they show red and green, is it any different than what I’m doing with my vision is not know the same thing. But for the spine. And it’s in it’s so funny, because the alignment they’re using the same terminology is as chiropractors, if you read the actual Hunter is makes the device, you read hunters stuff to say, making the adjustment is what they call it. On the wheels. I mean, they’re talking about this, it’s so cool to see. But again, we’ve got to get with it and recognize that’s where the world’s gone. And this isn’t about anything personal, that the world wants to see data.

Unknown 35:26
Any advice for students

Justin Trosclair 35:28
just starting out, or even young doctors on ways that they could be a little more successful?

Unknown 35:33
Oh, yeah. So the first thing is that we’ve been a lot of the schools are really pushing like, you know, the concept that we have to do cash practice stuff in this, that whatever, the reality is that I have my response. So a lot of chiropractors have been afraid of the personal injury, really, because of the fact that they don’t want to be deposed. They’re fearful of how hard that is. I’ve taken away that problem by having this data because the data speaks for them. And it’s a wonderful arena to get into as a student graduating, because not only I mean, forget about the fact that you get four times more on a PCI patient that you would off anyone else. But the reality is that those patients, and I remind everybody to tell them, they need you more than anybody does. They’re hurting, you know, why would you not want to fill that niche, and it’s a niche for them that exists that the schools have will not talk about because they don’t really talk about personal injury stuff in schools. And one of the schools won’t even let me speak on it, it’s got to be about cash practice, and the cash practice thing. And that’s great. And for the ones that and for the to supplement. So that’s the diner on part of it. And then the static EMC is how you keep the patient focused on their function instead of their symptoms by providing them objective data that he takes 30 seconds to do you know, the devices patented, has multiple, skip the electrodes on and now you’ve seen it There are five electrodes is it does a test super fast. Now compared to the machine that you saw, have you seen the new one? It’s fiber electrodes. I mean,

Justin Trosclair 37:01
I’ve seen the advertisements. But you know, I already had one that was working. And then now that I’m doing it, I’m like, Well, I’m not going to buy one in China, because it doesn’t really fit the way they work here. But right, I saw the wireless that’s like, that’s pretty cool. It’s quick, it’s easy.

Unknown 37:15
And now by the way, that’s the other thing, I recommend that you screenings, but be legitimate. And the other thing I want to tell them is don’t get out there and try to tell them that these test results mean you’re going to get cancer, if you don’t get treated, get an adjustment, because that’s where I see people getting in trouble. You know, all you gotta do is go. And I also tell them as a trick, by the way, that wireless thing, I didn’t do it just to be cool. For a screening, if you go out and you set up a 32 inch monitor, which cost you you know, TV, which cost you 100 bucks, and you do you go walk out to them, there’s a video showing this, but you walk out to them at a distance where they’re comfortable, where you’re not dragging him in, test him at a distance and say, Hey, when was the last when was last time you just fine check. And and doing screenings is great because you’re going to communicating with the public. But by having a test that shows something that’s real, it allows it established us credible, and we were in Spain, and we did this on all the hospital staff don’t ever been adjusted. And when they saw that, and the key part I’m telling you is that don’t tell the patient what it means we try to oversell chiropractic, that test alone stands on its own, they will tell you their spinal story when they see the test results. Because just like a watch, they don’t feel that they don’t feel this is like a patient awareness. So when you show them the muscle compensation about the spine, there go, Oh, my God, my shoulders been bothering me all this time I forgot about it. And they’ll start talking. But when you show them something that they feel, which is why the muscle work stuff works so much better than tomography. What ends up happening is they go Wow, you’re credible because you just prove something that is there. What do I do about it? And you can Socratic method them just what do you see?

Unknown 38:56
Yep, that’s it. Exactly. And if you say what do you see? So we did it, we did a thing where we actually had half the time we told the doctor and say, Well, this is what the results would be in tells him I told him all the stuff. And the other hand, I said, Shut the f up. And let the end you would not believe how many of those people just went on about their spines that led to them coming in to see the doctor. And the key is don’t make up stuff. Just say we’re looking at muscles, were looking at how they compensate for sublimation. It’s not magical. It’s not gonna like you know, and and that’s all you gotta do keep it simple. And then they’re going to be interested,

Justin Trosclair 39:31
when you know, and you mentioned earlier to about that, like the auto accident cases. It’s like they have a bad breath. Because you find these offices that have like a meal, you know, they just run through everybody gets the same thing to get a bad rep. And I don’t my own clinic. You’re right. P i was it’s Yeah, they’re little more complicated. Little more paperwork, but you do you just it’s not that you get paid four times as much is that you actually get paid? Yeah, getting cut. You know, when you get cut half, and you get paid full price. This it’s as a razor, I

Unknown 39:58
guess. But you have anything?

Unknown 40:00
Yes, x be the key is like and don’t work, I gotta tell you. The reality is that on my machine, I hate to say as opposed to my machine has made it so that I tried to level the playing field between MDS and DCs. So because the issue was you go into the courtroom, whether you like it or not, and these have Koreans like attorneys, they have higher level of credibility, you know, the the, the, the Gallup poll showed that. But the reality is that I wanted to level the playing field and I instead I hit the ball out of out of the park with it, and that they have nothing to compete with you and you don’t have to worry about being deposed. Because I’ve won every single case ever been involved with they know it, they just settle it and your test data is what drives the whole thing and protects you from ever being deposed? You know, and if you do, guess, who shows up to be deposed with you, me?

Justin Trosclair 40:50
Do you have any references at all? Like, if someone’s getting in trouble, you know, getting the lawsuit case? And like why don’t really want to have to fly you out and testify or their papers that have been publish where you can send that and they say, hey, all right, we see the proof will back off, pay the bill.

Unknown 41:05
So yeah, so first of all, it’s in the book. So that’s one of the ones. But if you register at the magazine website, my official com you register in the upper right, it gives you access to all court records and depositions and everything else that you can download and provide any attorney when they look at it and go, Oh my God, this went to the Supreme Court and Florida. It’s the end because they image they have is unfortunately the image attorneys have that are not educated on this, and this is changing very quickly is that static E and G is the only mg when they see there’s emotion one and that is in a maze book. It ends the discussion. And and you don’t have to worry about it. But but you can read, you can get trained on it by there’s a training class online. But also, you can read over all the depositions and see how experts have one cases and how easy it is. So all times I think

Justin Trosclair 41:55
patients don’t want to know all the technology behind it. But if you know as the doctor, you have the certainty that what you’re doing is accurate and is going to work. And then that’s right pick up on and that’s what they trust, they trust you

Unknown 42:07
Right. And so you know, if you haven’t seen it, the software brings up the ideal next to the patient and actually going to show you what this looks like because this is critical. What it does is, is this is how you explain to attorneys, patients and everything I wanted to make life easy. So I’m going to show you an example of one then you’ll get you’ll go wow, okay, this is like a no brainer. Let me just pull this up really quickly. And so you can see here that all’s I do, I just did this free, clever thing where I show the ideal next to the patient. And here’s an example. Now on the screen. Can you see that? On this side? This is three reps of the bottom is range of motion, top of the muscle activity. But you see how the muscles are fine like crazy. And this and this one and this one the relax in full flash or you can see they’ll pictures show? Yeah, the picture show the position they’re in. Can you see that? It’s got

Justin Trosclair 43:03
like a nice heel and a mountain top. The other one looks like a Jagged Little

Unknown 43:07
Pill. Yep. But the key is when you’re in full reflection muscle shut off in a normal this person is injured and a story by showing these side by side. This is your all you have to show it to anybody. And guess what? Game Over?

Justin Trosclair 43:20
And this is obvious. Yeah, you can’t see you guys, but one is flat in the valley. And the other one is halfway up a 14 or? I mean it is

Unknown 43:27
Yep. Yeah. And this case is, is one that this case I just showed you was a they offered $5,000. And then they deposed me on it and wrote a check for 220,000. Wow, no joke, you can ask the attorney. I mean, they just everyone just has like, could it’s like they’re amazed at the magic of this. Well, guess what? objective proof of subject complaints. You can argue it all day long. But when you can show it. And the story. You know, you mentioned being on that TV show earlier. I was when I when you said that I was thinking man, I don’t know if I want to be judged by the world. How you know, the especially the way everything is going on right now as like that can be scary. But at the same time you say this you like okay, well, if you can persuade people, they might reward you in a crazy way as well. Yeah, you know, the expert in one case last year for 750 said it best, because you know, someone introduced him at a lecture recently, john Bowlby, his name is john Bowlby. He’s a chiropractor, he is the best of the best he is what everybody needs to be seriously. Like, you know, he’s so balanced he tree. He says, I take cash I take, I take everything. But the thing is, he says it best they somebody introduced them as saying the guy who kicked, kicked this famous meds tennis court case, and he gives me goes I didn’t kick is the data did. I like it. And that’s why it was easy for me to get on a TV show was what are they going to do as like I’m showing data. They didn’t question it. Instead, they By the way, everybody needs to know to watch the show and vote for the plaintiff side, because the only attack they used in that show was to attack Chiropractic and my relationship, the machines association with chiropractors, chiropractors don’t have data we all know that she’s saying. And so if you as a chiropractor, get on there and vote for the plaintiff side, which is the right side in this case, for real, the ensure was wrong. You’re voting for chiropractors, you know, because that’s what her only attack, you’ll see it. Well. We look forward to seeing that. Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 45:23
I’m sure we advertise. So it will be Yeah. Do you have any other say five year goals that that you you want to see? And how do you know if they’re worthy of your pursuit?

Unknown 45:32
My five year goals are to make it so that chiropractors so we have a new report in our dining around stuff to make it so that chiropractors are all focused, I mean, I go to the schools, they’re still doing bubble range of motion in the schools. I mean, I don’t know about what you learned, but there’s still doing it’s insane. My goal long term is to five years is to have it so that every student graduates, I saw one recently in a deposition, where he was taught in his school, the visual range of motion was objective. And then to see him get his kicked in the court room, he bought a my vision that literally that Monday after that deposition, and because he’s like, Oh, my God, it isn’t. So I want the schools. To start, we’re getting the professional level of professionalism higher by integrating data, establishing what you do, and I want to see the profession doing it in general, because we need to raise the bar here and make it so that we have proof of we have this amazing gift that we can’t show anybody and we haven’t gone beyond 5% of the population still all these years and and BJ Palmer did it by using the SEM, I want to do it by using the data that produced by the mileage and it’s good solid data, test, retest reliability with my static was just recently published point nine, six, I mean, going to publication point nine, six, it’s real data. I want to see everyone using data because the world needs it, you know? Yeah. And that’s it. That’s my main goal is to get everybody doing that. So that people then go, Wow, my chiropractor knows what he’s talking about, and he can prove it. Absolutely.

Unknown 47:06
I’m gonna

Justin Trosclair 47:06
switch gears just a little bit on you. Kind of the last part of our episodes, we always like to talk about personal stuff. Are you okay with that? Okay. All right.

Unknown 47:13
Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 47:14
I’ll just ask it. I actually prep our guests just a little bit just to let them know that you will ask, besides work, what preoccupies any volunteering. I think you were into motor sports at one point.

Unknown 47:25
Yeah, race cars have the record on the Seattle track. You can watch the video of me at my website under the about you think you can watch video of me being a famous pro on the racetrack. It’s kind of cool. What kind of car it was. Aight, so I’d like guys being the underdog. I’m out there in a Corvette 06, which everybody thought was a straight line car. It’s been winning lemons for years. And I’m data driven, so I could afford any car. But I mean, it killed the F 430. The Ferrari on the track. It wasn’t even close. But the Porsches a very close. And so I’m driving 06 and it was more fun than having a $77,000 car. The Porsche club actually put a bet I put a pin on the website because they’re saying there’s no way that that car could do the lap times that I’m claiming they’re all documented, you know? Right. But so that so I just said, well, just you know, here’s a half million dollars for anyone that shows up three guys took the bat $500,000 career GT and there’s the By the way, the article on my racing is on the website also. But the career gt which is half million dollars lost and 20 after 20 minutes, the GT three the Porsche club president and the GT three lost in one lap, I took them in the first lap, never saw him again. And that’s $155,000 car and then a GT to the video, you can see him go into the dirt in the last lap, and I lost him in the last lap, I pushing them. And that’s when I got invited to race professionally, but at 50 You know, I’m 58 now but at 50 years old, 52 years old, I was like, you know, I don’t really want to drive around and you know, in a in a in an RV and go around to these shows. It’s work. You know, this is fun. Yeah. But then I crashed 150 miles an hour in a race car to and got out and drove myself home. That video I have to which I’ll show you personally, it’s kind of cool. Wow. But that was really fun. And but all my friend put it this way a friend of mine from Texas, you’ll appreciate this being from Louisiana. Guess what he said to me? What? David when so after crashing and getting out and driving my son My heart rate was only 77 By the way, I didn’t even bother me this crash flipped rolled started on fire to watch. It’s just unbelievable. But I got out now guy kept measuring my heart rate. He kept saying, how is it possible is three minutes later your heart rate 77 and it was 74 when you went out? They measured it before you went out? And he’s like, What’s going how I go it’s you’re trained for this now we deal but but the surgeon said something this friend of mine from Texas that David, when an angel when Angel kisses you on the forehead, you don’t spit in your face?

Unknown 50:01
In other words, you know time to stop you just walked away from that it’s not going to necessarily happen the next time. Yeah, and you know, and but the truth is it was more friends family that drove me nuts and wouldn’t let me get on the track as mine. So I’m going crazy right now. So I enjoy racing, but haven’t done doing that on time. I have been spending a lot of time with homeless people. And I’ve learned a lot about that. And I chased down criminals on the side too. And put 35 people in jail now felons and and I steal back things from Craigslist that are stolen. So I do that for fun to be just got a passion.

Justin Trosclair 50:40
That’s that’s the most amazing thing I’ve heard. Not ever but that’s pretty wild. So you’re like a private I kind of person or?

Unknown 50:48
Yeah, I go around so I you can see I can send you a video of the last one. I mean, this is just to have in the last two months, but one of the guys broke into the building. And you see me chase him down. But I knew what he was going to do. I know how they think. And I caught him three times I’ve witnessed two, three, I follow them and watch them break into a building to and all this is on video. So it’s not me saying it. And so I have and then two weeks ago, a guy broke into this building and I watched it all and got them captured in the garage. It was great. So yeah, but see I steal things back someone stole computer from someone with all their artwork on it. And so I found it on Craigslist set up a you know, like I’m gonna buy it and just said, you’re going to jail. You’re giving me the computer back. So you know that stuff happens. I stole a car back to that was cool.

Justin Trosclair 51:37
Wow. See? That’s some good advice. Because if you didn’t Rob of stuff like that, I wouldn’t have even thought Oh, go to Craigslist, because that’s probably how they going to try to offload it. So

Unknown 51:47
yeah, within an hour. It’s on Craigslist. So

Unknown 51:49
that’s amazing.

Unknown 51:51
Yeah, it’s pretty, pretty much that the car was on Craigslist. And that was that was a big deal. Because I stole a car back. And that was really hard to do. That was two weeks of interacting to buy it back from to pretend to buy it and then steal it back. So

Justin Trosclair 52:05
to be like cops come on the on the back end to TV show. I never

Unknown 52:09
know until I never like oh, yeah, no, I never I never get in trouble. I always know who and how bad they are. And keep my distance if they’re the police are always there. Otherwise, I don’t do it. So I’m not stupid. That’s awesome. There’s a safe way to do those things.

Justin Trosclair 52:25
Yeah. learn

Unknown 52:26
the truth. Yeah, you talk to anyone, they’ll tell you. It’s true. They’ve seen in my stuff. And there’s video of all of it. So that’s why you know, data, I have to be able to I don’t say things at once I can prove them. So

Justin Trosclair 52:38
well. Do you have any? We’re going to wrap up here. Do you have any morning routines or lunch routines that keeps you grounded and excited for the rest of the day?

Unknown 52:45
I do the elliptical. And that to me is a thing. I do an intense workout on the elliptical. And when I just had I just had an appendectomy on Saturday morning at 7am. And I made my 4:30pm lecture at the Portland Oregon Oregon’s chiropractic Association meeting. And the nurse said, I swear she goes, What are you doing for exercise? Why are you in such great shape? And I said, I actually have a very limited diet and I do the elliptical. intensely. And it’s been the best thing for me for years now. I blood pressure is what I was six over 72 or whatever. So you know, it’s just just from doing that. What’s intense me? I’m kind of curious.

Justin Trosclair 53:28
time so.

Unknown 53:30
So I just do a 15 minutes. And for me and what happens is that I go full bore the last two minutes. Okay. Just full bore and and you know, there’s more research showing that what this that this is true that it works. Yeah, interval training. Yeah. And it just, but I keep it at the lowest level. So and I hurt my back. So I’m just literally it’s more speed. So I go, I go fast the whole time. But then I go super fast for the last couple of minutes. And it’s amazing how well it’s how well it’s worked. And so that’s it. What about you?

Justin Trosclair 54:00
I walk a lot. I feel like I’m an old, a seven year old and like, I’ll get about a 10,000 steps a day, we finally have a gym so I’ll I’ll push the muscles I’m doing what is it called? It’s like a 30 Minute. insanity. Max.

Unknown 54:15
It’s fun, you know?

Unknown 54:16
Yeah, it’s great stuff.

Justin Trosclair 54:18
Yeah, it works. So well. I quit doing it. And then you know, gained some weight back.

Unknown 54:22
I kind of get back on it. So

Unknown 54:24
can I tell you a secret though, this is important. I want everyone to hear this. So everyone seems to follow like so right now. Vitamin whatever is the key. You know, there’s everyone fall three out what NASA what was hammered into our heads. And I want you to I’m gonna say this course, you know, pretty slow that individual differences are the norm. And what I know you understand that you’re a unique individual, individual differences are the norm, what that means is that my formula and your formula are completely different. So the second I felt like I can follow someone else’s formula, and I’m sick, I’m not healthy. You know, that doesn’t work. You have to find out for you and listen to your body what works best for you, no matter what any expert says, you know, and you can do that by checking your blood work checking your blood pressure, and actually Yep, seeing the data every four or five months, right? And so for some person might be eating steak every day for another person am I eat be eating vegetables every day, we’re all different and individual differences are the norm. So remember that and find out what works for you. And don’t follow what anybody else says. Very good,

Justin Trosclair 55:33
right? Hungry? Do you have any favorite books, blogs, podcasts are any phone apps that you just really like to use personally and ones that you could possibly recommend for others.

Unknown 55:44
So my favorite one of my favorite ones is Google key. But have you ever seen it but nobody knows about it. But it’s called Google keeping. It allows you to take your ideas and put them so you know everyone has like programs that are complex for you know what to do and everything. Keep is just like the simple as that comes with Google stuff. And you can use it on an iPad, it makes no difference which phone and it just allows you to put in a list of things that you need to get done. But you can put them in any order you want to you can just add a new one. And it’s sort of like a way that stores on all your computers it shows up everywhere of keeping all your ideas there. So you can always find them later on. And it’s not necessarily an order per se, but that’s okay.

Justin Trosclair 56:24
So it’s a version of like one note or Evernote.

Unknown 56:27
Yes, but it’s not as it’s not as complex to use it just like the second it just like it’s like having sticky notes almost. But allows you to more complex things with them if you want to. Main thing is that we lose so many of our ideas by not putting them somewhere. And so I use it all the time for it and you’re allowed to, to attack the most important one right at the top. So my phone I open it up and it shows me the most important note is shows right? Right there. It’s up at the top of the phone. You can’t see it very well. That’s too

Unknown 56:57
shiny.

Unknown 56:59
Yeah. Anyway, there’s a there’s a thing right here, which shows my most important notes. Oh, yeah. Okay, there we go. Yeah. And so and you can hit a voice thing and record it. That’s one of my favorites, I’d say right now.

Unknown 57:12
And my favorite. My favorite podcasts thus far, though, seriously, is one for you to consider is this guy named Justin. Trust Claire. Have you heard of them? Yeah, he’s pretty cool guy. Yeah, I like I like what he’s doing. He’s my favorite one so far.

Justin Trosclair 57:26
Any book, you know, that’s

Unknown 57:28
books. You know, this book, every chiropractor has to read this book or they’re stupid. I just said that did not like it. What is it is going to be shocking, because it’s so different. The expect is called the E myth for chiropractors. Okay. It was written by Frank devinsky and Frank’s devinsky, if you don’t know him was a genius. He passed away two hours with him when he passed away, unfortunately, and but he wrote a book called The E myth for chiropractors, it will change your life. And it’s not this emotional thing. It’s a reminder about the needs for processing, which is so opposite of him. He was like, the craziest person in the world. But that’s the point. We all need processes. And we need to be able to have processes for things to work properly. And it’s so beautifully written, the audio is great. But you have to read this book, and everyone that’s read it is content me going oh my god, it changed everything about the way I practice, you know, and it’s not just chiropractic. I read it as a business owner. And it changed my the way I do everything. So that book is critical

Justin Trosclair 58:27
that Frank have a management company.

Unknown 58:30
Yes, DC mentors, calm DC man, I knew

Justin Trosclair 58:33
him from activator really liked what he was doing. And then I went on his website the other day to say, I wonder if he’s, you know, for interviewing, and I was like, Oh, so

Unknown 58:45
yeah, it was terrible.

Justin Trosclair 58:46
Yeah. Is this terrible? Because he he had a very psychology based and patient centered, figuring out what’s, what are they thinking, you know, what type of person they are, and tailoring it to him.

Unknown 58:57
He was the anti management manager company. I mean, he literally was like that, what he said to you is, hey, if you don’t figure out who you’re talking to shut up, because, you know, reading scripts to people, they, they know it, they’re more sophisticated than that. And so he’s like, you have to establish what type person you’re talking to before and present things in ways they understand. And he was a real genius and he was so far ahead of everybody else. So you know, everyone’s pushing, read this script, everybody. I remember going to a carpenter, we read a script to me, I’m like, I turned door, open the door and go and it was right on the door. Like, you gotta be kidding me. You know, I go, you know, how enough you know, his big thing was authenticity, make it yours presented in your way, and then you’re going to be effective. So Frank was there was just no one you know, he’s just a brilliant guy. And he integrated everything and he was and in addition to that, he was the best activator practitioner I’ve ever known. Yeah, no, no, no offense Ireland I’ve been adjusted by you too. And you’re amazing. Frank was just unbelievable as a practitioner to add to it all. So he did everything right and well

Justin Trosclair 1:00:05
do you know I mean, obviously he wrote a book but does he have any visit materials available? Like you know as a most of the stuffs online or do you print it anyway so like this is why for anybody else have it set up to where you could still purchase those

Unknown 1:00:19
The books are available at DC mentors are also sidecar his all his materials now all of his training are part of a somebody called sidecar. I think their website let me look it up it’s I think it’s sidecar com or something Let me take a look.

Unknown 1:00:41
Anyways, and his wife Kathy and I we just got off the phone before I called you I got on with you are very close. And if you want me to look stuff up if it helpful if it says called sidecar edge is the website sidecar edge calm and you’ll see that his all of his training materials are part of sidecar edge now and so you can get access to all the and there’s also a podcast all over the place that he did to Okay, so you can see it on the audio one of the websites that an iTunes has them to, by the way, but his book sold out one show notes to Yeah, okay, so but everybody needs to read he met that minimum, he’s written three books life, the manual was fantastic. But email is a it should be a required book for every student before they graduate. Seriously,

Justin Trosclair 1:01:29
what most podcasts I listened to, they ask these types of questions. You know, what book do you like? an E myth is constantly, you know, one of either the original, or the position one or, you know, this is the first time I’ve heard the chiropractor one, but there’s, there’s different ones. But it’s constantly always recommended. So,

Unknown 1:01:45
yeah, and it his version of it. And, and I i love the audio version, because he was just so funny. I mean, he was such a life is so terrible, you know, he passed away. And it was a error at the hospital that caused it Oh, man, I was I was with him. And right up to the end. And it was, you know, there’s nothing harder it was I think I didn’t get out of bed for three months. I mean, it was so depressing to see someone, he would go, David, let’s go to England tomorrow. And we would you know, I mean, and we had he and I try out the good thing is, I feel so lucky to have spent the last you know, 10 years with them. longer than that. But the last four years, everywhere we went together. So you know, we traveled all the time his wife, and I and also best friend.

Unknown 1:02:28
I did and you know, and the thing is, we were we just will get together and we wouldn’t stop interacting it was just like we would talk to the whole weekend is poor wife and my girlfriend. They were like, who knows what they’re doing. But we were like glued to pen and paper and a chairs and just talking all night long and not stopping you know, for three days straight and those portals but he was a genius, you know, truly, and he knew the psychological stuff so well. And we knew the same research was finding a psycho physiology was my big thing. And that’s what he was into too. So coolest guy on the planet. And it’s Yes, I’m sad and every I wake up every morning going, why am I still here? You know? why did why did they take him in that mean? First? It’s, you know, it’s hard. But but read his book seriously, you gotta read it. It’s the best. It’s It’s It’s the same concept as he meant. But but but just I think it’s better actually from reading compared to. I mean, they’re both good. But it’s very specific. It’s not very specific to chiropractic. But still the way he does it, I think it’s just so much better, because he can relate to us better.

Justin Trosclair 1:03:27
You read all these like self help books or grow your business. And it’s always about a concept. And a lot for me, sometimes I’m like, okay, I wish I just had a blueprint, like who do I have to pay to actually evaluate and give me the blueprint. And then I can just implement it versus having to actually think about all these things. And I think that’s the difference between someone, you know, there’s different types of people. But when you have something Taylor like the that kind of book, it gives you more of a blueprint, it’s not just the E myth, it’s okay, we’ve taken it for you, we’ve done the hard work for you. Yep. Now, you

Unknown 1:03:56
just got to fine tune it for yourself. And the key remind you is that you you have to understand the basics for basis of your business yourself, you have to understand it, because you can hire people to do all kinds of stuff. If you don’t understand it yourself, you’re screwed. Because you know, the one person leaves all thing falls apart. And so it’s really important to read that book. So tell everybody you know, to read it, it’s worth it for whatever it costs, you know, I think you can buy at a DC motors. com, or whatever. There’s different places Amazon sells it to. Probably at the library. Yeah, it’s everywhere.

Justin Trosclair 1:04:31
It’s great. Most probably,

Unknown 1:04:32
yeah. So if I get a signed copy, I’ll get a signed copy from Kathy, I’ll make sure to send it to you. You have to email me your address. Okay. I appreciate

Unknown 1:04:39
it. Seriously. Anything else?

Unknown 1:04:41
I’ll do it

Justin Trosclair 1:04:42
any closing remarks? How can people get in touch with you?

Unknown 1:04:45
They can reach me at David at my vision calm, or info at my vision calm, and the websites are my vision calm and diner I’m info.com. And the My only the only that’s probably these where to reach me is that in my took my toll free number is 809. Six, I hate saying but it’s 800-969-6961 800-969-6961

Unknown 1:05:11
or outside the states to 064483464. Ryan’s the guy has been with me to the sales for you know, he’s been with me for 20, almost 20 years now. And he knows everything. Everyone’s been with me forever. It’s a really good group of people. But what I want everyone to do is to if everybody in the chiropractic profession had and I’m not blowing smoke, had your mindset, your critical thinking mindset, we would not be in trouble, we would be seeing 30% of the population right now. And I mean that, appreciate it. So, so press on what you’re doing, and get other ask them questions. Hey, how come you’re not doing this? How can we not using technology? How come? because that’ll lead them to ask why aren’t I you know, and, and so I want more of you around. So please reproduce yourself. Get your DNA, Senate. You know, let’s produce little mini versions of you.

Unknown 1:06:05
Okay, sounds good.

Unknown 1:06:06
Alright,

Justin Trosclair 1:06:08
I appreciate your time. I really hope that 2017 is your best year ever.

Unknown 1:06:12
All right, you too, man. Take care of something. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. All right. Bye Bye now. Bye, bye.

Justin Trosclair 1:06:20
Thank you so much for being on the show today is interesting to see the different connections you can have with somebody, like we both knew, Frank and I know a little bit about car racing, and just all the you know, the data is so important. You know, if you know what you’re doing, then the patients will notice your confidence. And you have a product that’s actually backed by science backed by law cases, as well, you know, proven that it works, then you should be able to see a change in your clinic. You know, if you if you use it, you know, I think the most expensive piece of equipment is the one that’s in the in the closet not being used. We appreciate it. Appreciate I appreciate his time. I appreciate learning more things about not only the product, but about the the history and about the death of chiropractic and having those resources on the websites where if you did get denied, for some reason, there’s something there to back up. Why are you doing it with certainty? And you know, something to take home I think was individual differences are the norm. It’s pretty true. I don’t know how many times you’ve tried an exercise routine, are you going on a diet to try to cut weight or gain or gain muscles, and it doesn’t work for you? Then you try something else? And then that works. And you’re like, Well, why did that work and that didn’t. So anyway, it’s a true statement evaluated for yourself. You know, you could run the test and see how you do over time. So I encourage you to do that. So appreciate his time. Show Notes can be found at a doctor’s perspective, net slash one three. Stay tuned, the travel tip is coming up next. They’re ready paperback Kindle versions are available on Amazon. As always, you can also snag a free copy if you’d like a doctor’s perspective. NET slash free ebook today’s choices tomorrow’s health small steps to improve health food choices and exercise learn how to go from a couch potato or a weekend warrior and have simple steps kind of personalized just for you three different blueprints for exercise how to cut some cars without hurting yourself a couple of changes in what and how you eat so that there’s not a lot of extra willpower and self control necessary to reduce how much you eat 12 exercises a 10 minute cardio that’s better than 30 minutes, three minutes stretching concept that won’t make you roll your eyes and boredom. An AB routine you won’t quit exclusive Facebook support group Yes, and an entire section about a nervous system reboot discusses chiropractic civilizations and things like that look, if you want it again, a doctor’s perspective. NET slash free ebook, it has a video explaining what it is a little PowerPoint presentation in there and put your name, put your email and then you can make a choice if you want to support the show. We have merchandise. We’ve got Upper Cervical chiropractic t shirts, we’ve got podcasts, logo, t shirts, mugs, hoodies, as well as a generous by the host the coffee PayPal button if you want to no pressure.

If you want to follow me on social media, the easiest way to find me is the go to a doctor’s perspective. net, look on the top right, it’s kind of a gray color. That’s all a little social media icons. If you need to email me, I would love to hear your comments, critiques, etc. Justin at a doctor’s perspective, net Connect comment and I’ll reply back. And if you can go to iTunes, go to Stitcher, wherever it is that you listen to this podcast, go to the site, give us a review, hopefully a five star review. Let us know what you think it’ll help us with all the rankings and we appreciate it. And if you happen to get any merchandise, definitely take a picture posted on social media hashtag behind the curtain or you can do at whatever my tag is, I’ll definitely give you a thumbs up.

Your travel tip today is wear comfortable shoes. Whether you’re traveling standing all day, there’s so many different brands, I can’t really recommend one. But find one that you that you like find them that’s comfortable. And even if it’s not a more common name brand, maybe you need to get a running shoe, right. And also, one thing I would recommend is a company called spin co I like their total support. And again, they’re not a sponsor. But if you do go to the Amazon link, it’s an affiliate link. But I’ve been using those for years, they’re really quite comfortable, you know, a lot of time shoes that the insert is just flimsy. And it’s really just to give you a little bit of cushion. And then the framework of the bottom of the shoe is what supports your feet. And for people that’s not enough, you got hierarchies, you got flat feet, there’s all these different issues. So I do recommend finding something to make it even more comfortable, whether you buy it and replace immediately, or you wait a few months and kind of wear out the ones that are in the shoes. And I just find that my personal shoes last longer. And another little side note you might be interested in is if you capable of doing this on a on a trip go for it if not just in your everyday life is having two different kinds of shoes that you just alternate. If you wear the same shirt pair of shoes every day, they were all faster, they get stinky. But if you always give it a data fluff backup to air out, they actually last longer. I’m not thinking about exact same shoe. But now you can try two different shoes. And you may find that you’d like this brand better from the times that you’ve worn it. So that’s your tip for today.

We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, sharing on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guest. A sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire

Unknown 1:11:45
giving you a doctor’s perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai