Diplomate of Acupuncture Joyce Kawalchuk discusses TCM, 5 elements, cosmetic acupuncture, gut health, farmers markets…
What you should know about acupuncture for oncology and pain, should you do private practice, group or something else, how personal medical troubles led her to TCM, plus ideas on how to place needles. Our guest Dr Allison Snowden Lac pricks our minds.
Dr. Allison Snowden is a Doctor of Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine (TCM), Licensed Acupuncturist and Herbalist (L.Ac.) in the state of California, and is a certified Diplomate of Oriental Medicine (Dipl. O.M.) through the National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (NCCAOM). She has performed clinical rotations at Rady’s Children’s hospital and the San Diego Cancer Center and advanced training at The International Acupuncture Training Center in Beijing, China. Memorial Sloan-Kettering Hospital, Acupuncture for The Cancer Patient.
Raised in a family of MD’s and Nurses, how did teenage tragedy spark her interest in Eastern Medicine as well as western alternatives like chiropractic and yoga.
Western doctors saved her life and put her back together, but it was the alternative treatments that brought Quality of Life back to her.
It takes repetitive visits to retrain the body after trauma, why is that hard for people to grasp?
She treats a lot of patients along side oncology and chemo recipients. Learn how acupuncture helps with cancer and the range of opinions MD’s have about it.
What type of subspecialty of Acupuncture does she do (5 element, TCM, Japanese, Hoch-Posh)?
How to determine if you should do ipsilateral, contralateral or bilateral needle placement.
Pluses and Minuses of private practice vs working in a hospital or group setting.
What is a way to educate the patients on what you do, how it works etc without getting fatigue and stay consistent?
When in an office with other doctors, how does she handle training the front desk? Ways to schedule the patient for more than one visit at a time.
When starting out and you are tempted to come in on a Saturday, how do you say no?
Why do we tend to focus on that one patient that didn’t respond well to care but the 99% did?
As a single lady, listen to some advice on dating, and re-dating your significant other.
Podcast: Art of Charm, JJ Virgin,
TCM Clinic Aid android apple
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/63 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the interview transcription.
This episode is part of the Acupuncture 2018 Series. Put your email to get a Quick Reference PDF of all the episodes.
Justin Trosclair 0:02
Episode 63 acupuncture for oncology and pain. What do you need to know? I’m your host Dr. Justin trust Claire and today we have Dr. Allison snowdon’s perspective.
George 2017 podcast Awards Nominated host Dr. Justin trust. As he gets a rare to see look into the specialties, all types of doctors and guess plus marketing, travel tips, struggles, goals and relationship advice.
Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.
Justin Trosclair 0:31
Welcome back to the last episode of the six week acupuncture series hope everybody has a learned a ton coming up in the following weeks we will have coach two different authors were different types of books even a book program so I’m excited about that that’s called mentor box. You can also look up a doctor’s perspective net slash resources for set for set with their power bands mentor box, like I said for book subscription and primal for some of your product teen and other paleo type nutrition needs. But let’s get back to today’s guest, Dr. Allison Snowden, we talked about oncology and acupuncture, pain management, and some interesting topics like should you do private practice work in a group work in a hospital? she talks about her medical troubles in the past and how that led her to the TCM lifestyle. Where should you place needles, not just acupuncture points, but if sea level contralateral bilateral all those types of things, and we have some pretty cool websites and apps at the end of the episode that you could check out I hope you enjoy the series if you have any other types of series that you would like dentist I doctors, audiology anything send me an email just go to the website slash about Justin and they’ll have contact form there that you can use to ask any question you want. rank is five stars on revenue. Listen, if you don’t mind, we get some cool making lemonade out of lemons t shirts, that’s slash t shirts, then we check out those cool new designs. Without further ado, a doctor’s perspective, net slash six three for all the show notes. Let’s go hashtag behind the curtain
live from China. I want to say a big Happy Chinese New Year to all the guests in the audience as well as a happy Mardi Gras because we are recording this on Mardi Gras even though it’s going to come out much later so I hope you guys enjoy it. Alright, but today’s guest is a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine licensed acupuncturist and herbalist in California, certified diplomat of oriental medicine through the national certification commission for Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. She’s had rotations at readies children hospital, the San Diego cancer treatment, the International acupuncture Training Center in Beijing, and the Memorial Sloan Kettering hospital. Acupuncture part for the cancer patient. Look if you guys like credentials. We have great Yes. Welcome to the show with Dr. Allison snowed. Hi,
thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. Absolutely. I’m excited. Yeah, me too.
Justin Trosclair 3:09
So you can actually be called a doctor in California.
Yes, yes. I Oh, fine. I know. I know. Yes. We I just completed my doctorate. So yeah, our master’s program in California is actually four and a half years long. So yeah, yeah. The longest master’s program, I think in the country.
Justin Trosclair 3:30
We don’t, everybody I talked to you. They’re like my see your doctor the light? Well, in some states. Yeah. I can’t call myself that in this state is like all right. Well, laws are laws. So it worked. Yeah. Yeah.
It’s definitely nice.
Justin Trosclair 3:42
Indeed. So okay. There’s lots of things you can do in life, you’re choosing acupuncture? Seems like left field to a lot of people. So how did you pick that? And give us a little lowdown? Yeah,
my I was brought up in a medical family. My dad is an MD, my mom is an RN. And my brother is also an MD. So I grew up in western medicine, in an amazing family. And we had some health issues. My sister had a childhood cancer. And when I was six, and then I was in a really bad accident when I was 15. And I contemplated going into western medicine or go going that route. But I really found so much healing in alternative medicine. I was in a really bad accident when I was 15, and had many major surgeries. And once I was you know, put back together, all my bones were healed. And my doctor said, You’re healed, I really didn’t feel healed. So that’s how I ventured into the, you know, complementary alternative medicine in chiropractic, massage, meditation and yoga. And when the last one was acupuncture, you know, Western medicine and modern medicine saved my life. But acupuncture, chiropractic massage, yoga, mindfulness gave me the quality of life that I wanted to have, and quality of life is just as important as saving a life. So that’s how I ventured into this, because it was just my own healing path. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 5:28
I can imagine because your bones are healed, but we’ve got scars, we got scar tissue in the potentially, you know, you could have permanent disability from some of these things for the rest of your life and be like, well, never got a chance to work. Yeah, yeah. Cuz I couldn’t do it. And you’re saying, No, I’m going to figure this out. And you want the alternative, where your parents made this age against your parents are okay with it. But yeah, they would their Western background. Yeah,
they were, you know, I, yeah,
they were supportive. They still were, like, you know, it’s just a different paradigm. And they were very supportive. And, you know, I went into that, you know, getting receiving this treatment first, before I started to study it. And they were supportive in that it is though a different paradigm shift. Because, you know, as in like chiropractic or in acupuncture massage, you have to go repetitive times. And sometimes people of that world don’t really understand of the upkeep of of treatment, and that you have to retrain the body back to health after something traumatic. So there is, you know, some education that, you know, everyone had to learn, that actually came from pain management doctor who was an MD, who really educated us, you know, if you’ve had an injury, and you’ve had certain things happen to you, it’s going to take time to heal that back, and you have to put that energy back in. So if you’ve been hurt for so long, it might take that plus some time to get you back to where you are. And you know, in our, in the time of, you know, the magic pill, you know, quick fixes you instant gratification society, that sometimes interesting educational piece, you know, back then, and then also with, you know, patients now to
Justin Trosclair 7:11
it, we’re both I’m a chiropractor, acupuncture patients will start to wonder, am I buying this guy’s new TV? Or do actually need these extra couple of visits? And you like, well, you’re obviously not better. I mean, look at you, you You’re still limping, or you’re still having these issues. It’s not about money. It’s like it just takes 10 visits or 15 visit sometimes or longer if you’re in a really bad car accident. take a while. Well, you know,
it’s like an onion. Yeah, it is in the body heals and layers, and it’s a process and, you know, I had about 10 surgeries, orthopedic surgeries and was, you know, in a wheelchair in and out for about two and a half years. You know, my so as you know, my hip flexors were super tight, I was crooked. I was diagnosed with I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, you know, chronic pain, you know, all of the things and given a pill. Actually, the pill was Vioxx. And that made that made that made my heart feel weird. And so I stopped it. And so it’s like, it takes time to retrain the brain, you know, or retrain, retrain the nervous system, retrain those muscles. And I think that’s something that many people don’t understand. And pain is also chronic pain, you know, can be that way also because it’s like, you get one thing better, and then you know, you’re living life, and then something else shifts. So it is a process and it takes commitment. And I think I was in and out of you know, pain and spasms for four years, and then all of a sudden, my pain in my leg just stopped. I’m glad. And I think that was like in the middle of acupuncture school. So it was like a good 10 years later. Oh, yeah. Sometimes people come in to my office. And, and I think they are like, wait, it’s going to take time visits or, you know, or something like that. And they come in and it’s like, wait, you’ve had this for, you know, 20 years. So it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting, you know, the art form of, of educating patients on that is, is a process that I think is evolves for all of us practitioners.
Justin Trosclair 9:21
So that’s interesting that for acupuncture, I just always a thought, No, I’m not just going to go one time, but the general public still things. Yeah, one or two times and I should be still good. Yeah. And, you know, and, you know,
it varies, you know, some people are very educated at it depends on if you get a patient that, you know, has been to an acupuncturist, and then, you know, they’re kind of they’re educated in that work, you know, from you know, who’s never had it, or, you know, some people who are middle aged and have had really healthy bodies their whole life and just have an injury, and they don’t really understand what what it is to put in. But, yeah, I mean, sometimes I do have those, those patients were those conditions for some reason, shoulders, I’m really good at fixing really, really quickly. And so sometimes those happen, but ultimately, you want to improve something you have to put work into it, or for the time into it
Justin Trosclair 10:14
now, based on your medical history and all that it Have you specialized in more pain management and cancer treatments based on your resume. Yeah, yeah.
And I love my My specialty is Mind Body medicine. So and the, the patients that I attract, I feel really comfortable treating our whole rate wide range of conditions, but oncology, I treat a lot of and then, you know, mental, emotional and physical pain. And a lot of times those go all hand in hand,
Justin Trosclair 10:46
what do you what do you do with cancer? Obviously, I all I obviously, but I would assume that you’re not putting needles in and expect the pancreas cancer to get better?
No, no, we are putting, you know, so we’re managing and helping that the environment of the body to help you know with its healing potential. So, you know, before and after chemo and radiation coming for acupuncture, and it’ll help you know, obviously with anxiety, calming their minds, but then energy brain fog, night sweating, counteracting all the side effects of key Yeah, yeah, I mean, I had a I have had many patients that it’s it’s pretty profound, because you know, if you’re really healthy, and, you know, some people are curious about acupuncture, and they’re like, Oh, I want to come in, and they’re really healthy, and they feel they feel even better. But if you’re really healthy, and you know, you feel a lot better. You know, it’s not as significant in your own life. But when you have a cancer when you have a cancer patient who is really struggling, and you really see the power of acupuncture because they get so much benefit the energy I had a you know, my one of my patients that are, she comes every week, she came in to see me she was very constipated. So wasn’t having any bowel movements. You know, it’s like for every four days, she was having night sweats, which was disrupting her sleep. And so she had to change our clothes several times at night, she was having anxiety with just talking with the doctor. And so just within one treatment, we got her bowels moving, her night sweats disappeared, and then we worked on her anxiety, I also integrate some energy work. So some Reiki and then I also do a technique that is, you know, any tea so I I’m an acupuncturist, but I blend in other things. How does the herbs part plays your clinic? So there are do you do i do i do do herbs? With the with cancer patients? It’s a little bit tricky, because a lot of times the oncologist Don’t you have to approve? Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 12:55
we don’t want any kind of interaction. Yeah, yeah.
But we can still do that with that. But yeah, I do herbs, and then, you know, with with pain, and then also just constitutional, so just their constitution to support in the healing. And then and then I also do supplements too. So
Justin Trosclair 13:16
while we see how to do you got a lot going on? Yeah. But it sounds like you’re getting the results that we’d all hopefully Yeah. Are there any type of misconceptions that people typically come in that you have to answer all the time,
not as much, you know, in California, because they’re pretty, you know, the population is pretty open and more educated, because there’s more of us out here. But I’m from Missouri. So some of the misconceptions is, you know, maybe there’s something on the needles, that there’s something, you know, that we’re injecting into the needles, or, you know, that or there’s something that that’s on there. And so that’s not that’s not true. And then also, if they’re disposable, that we don’t reuse needles, you know, that doesn’t happen. And also, well, this hurt. Yeah, that’s, that’s a question I get. And, you know, I forget, because I, I love my acupuncture needles, I don’t think of them as scary, I feel that they’re, like, very healing. And I mean, I will kneel myself several times a week, and then I also get acupuncture treatments. So I always forget that some people think when when you say needles, it’s like, not a pleasant thing. So I have to remember, I have to remember that the acupuncture needle is is as wide as you know, strand of your hair. So they’re very thin. Sometimes people will say, oh, does it hurt? And sometimes, you know, there’s a weird sensation. And you know, you have to just educate them. You know, a lot of the sensations we haven’t even felt, you know, until we get
Justin Trosclair 14:51
Sure, well, yeah, cuz just like if you push the thumb into a tight muscle, this is sensations, sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it’s like a radiating paint, like, you know, almost a pain, but it radiates. There’s always the sensations that you wouldn’t have unless you try to like the acupuncture needles. Not I gave blood the other day. That was a big, nice, yeah, it’s huge. I mean, that was a scary thing, needle. And, of course, with the acupuncture, that’s not the case. Sometimes if it’s a tender area, you know, depending on what you’re treating, they might tingle or not typical, but like, you know, it hurts us a little bit, but it’s quick, and it passes and you don’t even notice there there.
I always tell my patients if there’s something that’s uncomfortable, please tell me Yeah, and, and some people, you know, I had a patient that had a bad experience. Some some acupuncturist, use bigger gauge needles, some, you know, very small needle. So, patients, you have to tell them, and like give them permission, you know, to communicate with you. And, you know, some some patients are better than that with with that. There’s, do you look at all of the five elements stuff. And so if someone comes in who’s got anxiety and say, neck pain? Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 15:56
also look at well, how’s the kidney functioning? Was? Yeah, yeah. Like I,
do there’s, there’s so many different, you know, you can do with the five element, there’s actually five element acupuncturist, and that’s like a sub specialty. So there’s all these little sub specialty and trainings within acupuncture, which is so amazing, different theories. And it’s amazing, because there’s so much to learn. It’s just like, you know, chiropractic, where there’s all these all kinds of techniques, different techniques, specializations, you know, different, it’s almost overwhelming, because there’s so many different ways you can go. But yeah, I look at the tongue and the Paul’s mostly, you know, the pulse and then and then palpitation, I will, you know, use distal needling, I will do local, I’ll get a kind of a intuition on where I should go. And I’m all out. You know, there are acupuncturist, who are, you know, I’m five element, and I’m not sure, I’m Japanese, you know, they’re just one thing and I’m just, you know, an eclectic acupuncture is, so I pull from many different systems that have studied and then blended in to whatever works, and whatever I feel will work for that patient. So not every patient’s the same. You know, not every technique will work 100% all the time. So that’s how that’s just how I practice.
Justin Trosclair 17:24
You’re like a diversified chiropractor. We Yeah, we still a little bit everything. And sometimes you just get a feeling like you know, you’re not working, you got a hot back, whatever’s my normal, go to things not working. So what else can I do? What else should I do? And obviously, it just computers in your brain? Like, oh, let me try this. I haven’t used this in probably six weeks. And yeah, you do it? And you’re like, oh, that was the magic potion that they needed. And I’m guessing it’s kind of like what you’re talking about with the with the points? Do you when when someone comes in with say, left hand numbness or something? Do you do both sides? The same side? Does it really matter? In your opinion?
I it so they have numbness in their hands? I will do I will do both sides? You know, it probably it’s coming. Maybe it’s coming from their neck or tightness in the muscle. So obviously, I do things, you know, examination and see, you know, what the sources what’s, why they’re having it? Right, that type of thing. But yeah, I usually will go to this, you know, to that that same. And you know what I also just, I will play around in my, you know, flat practice. Maybe I’ll start with upside, and then I’ll experiment and see if if that works. Yeah. So yeah, I will usually go to both sides.
Justin Trosclair 18:33
Give us some of the doctors here though. They’re usually both sides. But every now and then you’ll get one of the like, well, if your leg hurts on the left side, I’ll do your right arm. Yeah,
what Yeah, yeah, there’s some there’s, IPS be a lateral. So there, there’s a system, Dr. Thompson, who I know for pain management, it’ll do like so, you know, if your right hand is hurting, then you go to the like, left toe or the left foot? You know, so you do like the country, you know, it’s a lateral casual level, you know, other limb and you know, it works. So there’s many there’s many ways, you know, up the mountain, so, so to speak, and in the acupuncture world,
Justin Trosclair 19:13
so Wow, let me let’s switch gears a little sounds like you’re pretty new. And in practice,
it’s been let’s see, 2013 I graduated. Oh, that’s a while. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 19:23
that’s not bad. Yeah, you put you pass the hump? Yeah. Yeah. What could you tell doctors starting out that are either considering going to acupuncture school or potentially, they’ve been out for two years, and they’re struggling to make ends meet, and maybe losing that passion for what they went to school for any any advice? You know,
you have to stay in touch with why you’re, why you’re in practice, and wire, why you’re doing what you’re doing. I think it’s easy to get overwhelmed. And maybe jaded. If you’re if it’s you know, practices, you know, slow or that type of thing. I always say like, reconnect with people connecting with colleagues and people who are, you know, motivated in business, to keep on that connection. You know, if you’re having if you’re struggling, then reach out and you know, learn. And, and I think sometimes we think we have misconceptions on how practice is going to go, you know, that it’s just going to be a certain way. And then we, when we hit hardships or something, you might think that, you know, I mean, we all go through this, and I’ve actually I’ve tried, I’ve done private practice, I worked for someone and now I’m doing a mix of two of them. And you have to find what works for you. And you know, what works for one acupuncturist doesn’t work for the other like, I had a, I have a one of my really good friends. He’s just like a one man show. And I really like working in group settings where I have a front office desk, and I’m with other practitioners, I really did not like being an office all by myself just doing everything. Do you work in a
Justin Trosclair 21:09
hospital setting? Or I
yeah, I work in an integrative center in one of the hospitals. That’s wild. Yeah. So I do that. And then, and then I have my own practice. And I part of a practice that has front desk and in another integrated practice. So it’s some people find it right off the bat. I definitely I sucks. I was successful in private practice, but I was a little bit miserable, because there was a lot of responsibility. Yeah, and I think there’s just there’s a growing curve to that. And, you know, you just keep on doing what you’re doing and reevaluate, you have to keep up your self care, you know, have a plan and an appt
Justin Trosclair 21:50
when you work in somebody else’s office, especially in places like California, where everything’s like, super expensive, typically, does that really help to be able to offset some of the burden? Yeah,
I think I mean, I, I found success were sharing office space where people can refer a physical therapist office or another family practitioner, or I sharing some space with the neurologists, psychiatrists. So there can be some a, you know, benefit to, you know, both parties. It’s awesome. And, yeah, I think just getting your referral partners set and nurturing those relationships is really helpful. Have you found it difficult at all to try to get referrals from medical doctors or the accepting of the acupuncture based on some of the research or what’s what’s your viewpoint can only in California, it’s, it’s great. I mean, there are some, you know, within oncologist, there are some oncologists that are closed minded. But with that said, there’s just equally as mount that are super open. And I mean, it’s really promising to see how accepting a lot of people are have it, I have a a couple good referral doctors, and they’re just, they’ve seen results, and then they just keep on referring. It’s, it’s very cool. Except, you know, like, when I was visiting in St. Louis, I was in a yoga class, and one of my friends was like, Oh, you know, Allison is an acupuncturist, you should try acupuncture. And the surgeon said, well, that’s kind of Voodoo. I’m not try that. So, I mean, I’m not saying that, like, all of the misconceptions are, you know, are completely smashed, right. But I, I basically was like, Well, I was like, actually, you know, there’s a lot of good research, if you look on, you know, you know, PubMed is pretty good. The American College of Was it the primary care Doc’s now recommend acupuncture and other you know, non pharmacological interventions first. So it’s not like it Reiki or energy medicine, which I also practice too, so I didn’t go there with her. definitely keep that quiet. Yeah. You know,
Justin Trosclair 23:58
I’m was thinking about this the other day, dentists, chiropractors, podiatrist I doctors acupuncture is we all have the word Dr. In front of our name. And yeah, the schools are credentialed by a governing board of some sort. I don’t know all the details, but they don’t just pass out Dr. degrees, like a massage therapist certificate. Yeah. Yeah. Like it’s a it’s you have to meet certain professional guidelines in every profession, otherwise, you won’t ever get accredited. And then yeah, maybe a state doesn’t recognize you as a doctor. But they still recognize that piece of paper. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, yeah.
I mean, it’s coming up in Yeah, definitely. I think there’s a lot of ignorance and the kindness words on how much work goes into it. I think when I was going through the process, you know, my family was like, geez, I didn’t realize how much went into that. I mean, it was four and a half years all year round, just to get my masters. So and then I got, you know, the doctors, I don’t I think there’s just a lack of knowledge. And I think just that is probably one of the to any of the new practitioners. I think one of the big barriers is, is just educating people, you know, and I think sometimes, you might get education fatigue, oh, you know, because you’re just like, geez, why? Why don’t like anyone, like, just know that I can help you. Because you guys get tired of, you know, educating that this is how it works, and trying to convince people, but just educate people. But, you know, unfortunately, that’s just, you know, as trailblazers as we are, in this profession, that’s just how it’s going to be. Because in acupuncture in America is just very baby. I think it was like in 1983, Dr. Lee, she was charged with practicing medicine without a license. So that was just, you know, like, 34 years ago. So it’s crazy. It’s still baby, and we’re getting a lot of recognition. You know, but we’re still you know, a little bit outside the system. And that’s difficult. You know, you have to be entrepreneur, you have to kind of know that what you’re getting into so but there’s, you know, yeah,
Justin Trosclair 26:00
chiropractors, we were just saying, where you get educational fatigue, like oh, my gosh, fat, the explain what a misaligned vertebrae is, again, so we created these videos, and then there’s all these videos, and then you talk to people like, Hey, are you seriously, you know, so there’s a debate should use the video and a new patient comes in that explains all the basics of chiropractic, so you don’t have to every time and it’s always consistent. Have you done that? Oh, I did it for years, like I was in a management company, and they had a nice video, they didn’t make it very Whoo. And they didn’t. It was just, it was nice. They did a good job. It was professional, and it was consistent. And there’s just certain videos were kind of like, come out there. They’re coming from the 70s. And the doctors really haven’t upgraded their you know, the video in a while. So it’s a good thing to update from time to time, but I don’t know the y’all have anything like that to kind of
any one of the one of my friends he did, he did his own video, that’s definitely on my radar, because I think that is just like a small investor where it could go a long way. Yeah, there are like marketing packages, you know, that we can buy that help educate patients. But, you know, I just I guess, still do it the same old way I need to upgrade my game. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 27:15
Because sometimes the patients, I think, if you were to have a video camera in there, they’re probably just playing on their phone and whatnot. But at the same time, you know, if if, you know, you’re giving the same consistent explanation that you’re like, this is what I feel like, is a good explanation. And I don’t have to watch it because I’m having a bad day. I don’t know. I think there’s something to that. I think so. Yeah.
I think like maybe like listening, one of my friends he has I’m like, listen on an iPad before. Yeah. You know, and he has like a little automated, know, thing. And, and that works, because then you just don’t have to talk about it. Yeah. So but I haven’t used that in my practice. So
Justin Trosclair 27:50
it’s just FAQ after that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
He real quick, then you said, you haven’t really had to hire staff yourself. But are you responsible for any of the training or any ways to make your front desk the best they can be any tips for Yeah,
I’m, I’m yeah, I’m in that process right now. And I think it just all comes back to so I’m sharing an office with a psychiatrist and neurologist. And so it’s different than with acupuncture. So I definitely had to, like, you know, train and role play, and then have, you know, it’s important to put systems of, you know, if patients call and then, you know, make sure that their insurance is, you know, so no one is dropping the ball.
Justin Trosclair 28:32
Oh, yeah, those poor ladies and men up front probably have three different scripts, three different ways. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
But they’re, you know, it’s really important because they’re the first contact and they have to feel confident, you know, with not not selling it, but just helping the patient.
Justin Trosclair 28:51
They could turn off a patient in a hurry. They can. Yeah, they have a bad attitude. If they don’t answer the question, right. Does it hurt? Well, some people hurt. That’s not bad. Yeah.
Or even or even just the, you know, that the tone of like, Oh, do you want to do this? Or, you know, like, yeah, you have to have someone that’s Oh, my gosh, this is gonna be great. And she’s going to help you and have confidence in it. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 29:16
You want you want morning time? Or lunchtime? Yeah, for sure. Afterward, like today or tomorrow, like,
exactly not like when and getting them book for their next appointment is huge. right then and there.
Justin Trosclair 29:30
Were not like prepaid. But if you know the person is probably going to need at least six or seven business related. But let’s just get you on the schedule, on your schedule and your calendar. You know, the patients that way. Now you become the priority over the next three weeks versus Yeah, every time trying to come up. Come on on Wednesday, and then come on Friday. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
I really like doing that. I mean, sometimes it’s now just, I mean, a little bit of a frustration right now. Like just getting all everyone’s schedule together. Because I am at the hospital three days a week, and then at my private practice, too. So it’s just sometimes they’re like, Oh, I can’t go on that day. So yeah, it’s just sad. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 30:12
I did a split time between two clinics when I was in Louisiana. And it was like, No, you get monday, wednesday or Friday afternoon. That’s your options. Yeah. If it doesn’t fit your schedule, kind of suck. That sounds good. You like I just lost the patient? Because I’m just not available with those days, I guess, go down the street. Yeah, yeah.
And I’m in that mode, where I’m like, that’s just where I’m at. And I think sometimes, especially when you’re maybe doing two jobs, or you know, when you’re starting off in acupuncture, and you’re only available these certain days, that can be a little bit rough, you know, like, you’re like, Oh, my gosh, I just lost it. I should just be open all the time. You know, and obviously, that would help but you have to pay your bills and you know, build up. So
Justin Trosclair 30:54
yes, great transition. Let’s get personal. You ready for this? Then we asked as entrepreneurs, we tend to not get a lot of vacation. You got on the one hand, you got a nice nine to five, three days a week. On the other hand, you also have an entrepreneurial spirit, therefore, you’re chained to your office two days a week. So yeah. How are you able to take a vacation? Do you take enough in what do you think on that? Yeah,
I mean, it’s really important. And I think it’s Yeah, I do take vacation. And actually, this weekend, I’m taking like a staycation vacation. Yeah. So. So and it’s really, it’s, it’s very difficult. It’s still sometimes difficult for me to, you know, to honor those boundaries, but you have to really solidify your commitment to yourself, because you have to get some space away from the business in order to you know, regenerate. So I am not working this weekend, because I was in a conference the past we are that last weekend, the weekend before that. The weekend before that. I was teaching the whole weekend. So really, I haven’t had like a weekend off in like three weeks. So I was I am not working this weekend. But it’s so interesting, because like a patients like oh, I can come in on Saturday. I was like, ooh, maybe I should. And I was like, No, no, True. True. It’s really, it’s really tempting. You know what? I’m just like, Oh, yeah,
Justin Trosclair 32:25
like with the cupboard. I’m like, I you know, it only takes five minutes to adjust somebody, but like, what’s not going to be five minutes, there’s going to be the driving the driving bag, it’s gonna take longer, they’re going to chit chat because nobody else is in the office. It’s like, no, that’s gonna be your entire morning. Four or five? Yeah, just just say no. Yeah, yeah.
So just saying committed to those boundaries and, and doing it like I’m, you know, every, like, four months, do something for yourself. If you’re in the startup phase, then you know, do staycation or, yeah, cuz you just get you’re wearing so many different hats. And you have to do that for yourself. And self care. I’m, I’m huge, but I’m huge with like, getting treatments for myself. Because and, you know, if I’m not eating and exercising and you know, taking care of myself, then I’ll have like, you know, start envy my patients when they’re on the table. And that’s not so much that I’m like, That’s not good.
Justin Trosclair 33:18
I’m glad that you can acupuncture yourself. I mean, I know. I know,
you can adjust yourself. I mean, our Can you
Justin Trosclair 33:26
Well, you know, I get
I get my wife to use that we have these adjusting instruments. Yeah. So I kind of show her how to just sort of be a technician and like, Hey, here’s how you hold it. This is what you do. Yes, I’m get some going because I know the options here in China. There’s I’m the only one. So nice. Nice.
How long have you been in China for? This is my fourth year?
Oh, nice. Yeah, I’m in a hospital setting But much like yourself. We are working to TCM department. Oh, cool. But we’re mostly like musculoskeletal, like I think some other stuff. But normally it’s bulges and her nations and headaches and swollen knees and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Oh, good. A lot of good stuff for pain management. Oh, yeah.
Justin Trosclair 34:09
Hey, real quick. What about um, any hobbies or volunteering or anything that you do to reconnect? Yeah,
I I love horseback riding. And like, just hiking and being in nature? And let’s see what other things yeah, just being with around friends. Yeah, and I need to get more into volunteering. Because that really feeds my soul. used to teach yoga, like free yoga classes, and then going to like a disadvantage kids and teaching yoga. But I kind of got out of that when when I moved back to California. So I need to need to recommit to that.
Justin Trosclair 34:47
That’d be a good marketing strategy to
Justin Trosclair 34:52
Justin Trosclair 34:54
realize, Oh, come on. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. Well, as far as significant others, you may not be married or long term relationships, but you’ve been around. Yeah. Any ideas that we can implement to try to keep the love alive and feel connected? Yeah,
I think you I mean, I’m, I’m dating around right now. But I been in a relationship while actually when I first started my business. And you know, I’m not gonna say it was not easy, but you just have to, you know, leave, I think leave the office at the office. And then you know, just be present with, with, you know, your significant other I think quality time is really important, or just even just being present when even it’s just a little time you’re, you’re with them.
Justin Trosclair 35:40
I got a better question. Single dating around? Oh, this is a great question. All right. So you’re single, you’re a doctor, you’re a woman. I’m finding that men are moving on California, but our men a little more intimidated to pursue you.
I don’t find myself intimidating. But maybe that’s the problem. I mean, people ask me asked me that, because I’m, you know, pretty friendly. And But yeah, I think that sometimes is I think, that does come to play. You know, like when you’re when you’re educated, and you’re you’re independent, that does come to play, but I just kind of go with the embracing that this is who I am. And you know, you’re just yeah, you know, that’s all you got to do.
Justin Trosclair 36:25
The Hey, what is it good for these married people that have been married for a long time, and they forgot to date their partner? what’s what’s a good date? Good first day that they can redo not a movie?
Not a movie? Well, there’s these things called in San Diego. I don’t know if you guys have them. They’re called escape rooms. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it’s like you’re putting together a puzzle and you’re with like, another group. And so it’s like a fun adventure to go on with your with your significant other. So like that. And or just, I mean, here, it’s just absolutely gorgeous. So anything in nature and door, going to like elbow park or you know, just trying something new, I think with a significant other is good. And then you know, you have to prioritize that and you know, have like your date night. I’m like, but now I’m just I’m just dating, you know, in the dating scene right now. So that’s another that’s it.
Justin Trosclair 37:19
That’s why I asked was like, you know, you probably go on a lot of first dates, maybe if Yeah, so that’d be good for people who have like, I need to start dating my wife or spouse again. Now. What do I do? So yeah,
it’s it. That’s another job in itself.
Justin Trosclair 37:33
always laugh whatever. When I was doing the single thing, and I will do some online stuff. Oh, my God. These are talking to people and they’re like me. There’s so they’re a bunch of weirdos get?
Justin Trosclair 37:44
no boxes are flooded. Can’t get around good people. She’s like, it was crazy. I know.
It’s I mean, it’s it’s difficult. Like Yeah, now I’m like, just reaching out to friends. I’m like, Do you know anyone? Yeah, kind of going that route. Because, you know, you see someone on, I don’t know, the apps and you’re like, Okay, this is this person, they look somewhat good and put together. But then, you know, it’s a totally different person. And then sleazeballs just you just wasted so much time you’re like, Oh, my God. Yeah, Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 38:14
no kidding. You know, we did an escape room one time in China. And let me tell you, that was a bad idea. I was like, maybe I don’t know what to do.
I can’t read it, right. I don’t know what the thing on the radio was saying. I was like, I’m pretty much useless. Like this is
Justin Trosclair 38:33
There, if there are six rooms, I think we get out of like one or two.
Y’all got to go.
Oh, my God, that’s hilarious. so bad. But
Justin Trosclair 38:49
Alright, last last couple questions. These are fun these days is popular to have like a morning routine or lunch routine? Do you fall into that camp? Yeah,
I do yoga. So I do yoga every month. If I usually do it in the morning, if I don’t do yoga, then I meditate. I’m not gonna lie. Sometimes I like to sleep a little bit in but I always get in at least five minutes of meditation and centering. And I think that’s really important to express gratitude, and to envision your day on how you, you know, want it to go. And I like to just think of my patients and you know, think of me going out into the world and just, you know, spreading just light and just getting excited for helping people. I think sometimes, you know, stress with just other things with being an entrepreneur can sometimes get in the way of you know why we started to do what we do. It’s because we get really good results for 30 minutes. And that’s really exciting. So it just, you know, ignites that excitement.
Justin Trosclair 39:52
I always find it was weird. Whenever somebody doesn’t respond like you’re supposed to that, oh, I get baffled. I’m just looking at him. Like, why aren’t you better?
Oh, I, I know. I had that. That happened, like last week. And I was just like, What is going on? It’s just like an anomaly. Yeah, it was just really strange. But it was funny because it was around like, I had just so many amazing treatments within that day. But of course, you know, like, my human brain wants to like just focus on that one treatment where you’re like, what did I not do? Yeah. And you always have to retrain your brain to be like, look at all of this, you know, success that you had there. And I mean, the with this patient, she hasn’t finished the full course of treatments so we’ll reevaluate after that. So you just go from there. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 40:38
On the spotlight here, favorite books blogs or podcasts that you secretly love or you think other people should check out?
I was secretly love Art of Charm I I listened to that, you know that one is a man one isn’t it?
That’s my secret one. And I like listening to you know, I’ll just like I spin through so like when I’m getting ready, I’ll listen to that. I’ll listen to like help ones and then I’ll do like spirituality one so like with Buddhism or yoga, so that like will nourish my soul so I kind of flip between that you know, like an educational thing in the morning. So you know like you don’t put on makeup but you know as girls we get ready you know it does and so I’ll either I’ll have something on like you know something more soulful, you know to nourish my soul or I’ll do something you know, like on supplements or on you know, Chinese herbs so I’ll kind of like rotate that and then with like, entrepreneurial type stuff amazes me some more my any mindset stuff. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 41:46
he personally like particular.
Um, let’s see, I had to I listened to like, JJ virgin I listened to I need some more. I need some more suggestions. But just I’ll just browse. I kind of know thank committed I’ll just browse through like entrepreneurial ones. Now. Tim Ferriss. Oh, listen to him. Of course.
Justin Trosclair 42:06
That’s trying to see real quick I was like, Who Who do I have here? It is interesting. I find some weird stuff like this guy. Ryan, Daniel Moran. He’s got like the financial podcast like if you ever thought about like some something on Amazon, like he’s pretty legit. And then the like, social media marketing is a good one.
Justin Trosclair 42:23
Another one from buffer. You know, buffer?
No, I don’t know. buffer. buffer.com is kind of
Justin Trosclair 42:29
you put one post and it sends it all. It’s all your social media. So you don’t have to do it on every single one of them. Oh my gosh. Oh, come on. I’m
yeah, no, I need help on the social psychology. You know, me. Hey, like, it took me like 10 minutes. How long to get on Skype. My Skype thing didn’t work. No
Justin Trosclair 42:47
longer I gotta go eat my lunch. Yeah, but there they have one called social or the science of social media. It is really good because it gives you all like the stuff that you want to know if you do any type of social media marketing or looking today, answers the questions and get you excited.
So that’s a podcast. Social Science. Okay. Yep. That’s awesome. I’m glad I learned some things. That and buffer.
Justin Trosclair 43:09
Okay, buffers easy. I’ve never paid for it. Not have everything hooked up pretty nicely. Like you can hook you can pay and get even more stuff, but it’s not necessary. Okay. Yeah. Okay. What about you? Last question? Do you have a favorite app on your phone? Besides like social media?
What is my favorite app? I mean, my calendar, I’m really not techie. So I need help on this thing. I basically put everything in my calendar. And I put timers on that. But I don’t really have a favorite app, I have a favorite app like for Chinese medicine, like TCM clinic, eight if I need to, like look up something. So that’s really helpful. But you know what I’m like, I’m still one of those people that like, I still have my books, because I still like to go to like my books. So I still you know, I’m, I’m half in still in the hard book world and and then half on my digital. So
Justin Trosclair 44:03
it was about the room in one app for you is like if you like to read articles, or you see articles, but you never actually end up reading them because you’re like, Oh, that’s a really long scroll button. I’m not dealing with that. Yeah, pocket
pocket. Okay, because I was because I need an app because I have all these ideas. And I have them all on notes, you know, for like future articles or different things like that. And I’m like, I wonder if there’s an app Doc, what
Justin Trosclair 44:25
you heard of Evernote, or one one note yet? No, oh my gosh. Everybody seems to use Evernote, but I’ll be honest, I don’t use that one. I use one note. I had a it’s from Microsoft. And so it just it seems on all your devices and all your computers, and I’m guessing Evernote probably is like quote better, but it’s just nice. Whenever you you know, have the consistency through all like you’re being in hotmail and and one know, they all jive nicely. And in here. They don’t think Yeah, Google’s kind of blocked. So I have to use hot Microsoft products. So anyway, but it will. Oh, yeah,
I remember when I when I was in, I studied in China when I was in Beijing. And I was like, my Instagram, my Facebook. My Gmail got hacked, you know, in like, several times. And that was just like, this is so strange. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 45:14
Anyway, those are great.
apps. So buffer,
Justin Trosclair 45:19
buffer in one note. Yeah,
awesome. Well, that’s great. I need all the help I can get on the social media or on the technology.
Justin Trosclair 45:28
In about a month, you’re going to send me a text message, a message. Oh my gosh, my life has improved 100%
Oh, I’m excited. I’m excited. Awesome.
Justin Trosclair 45:37
I can’t wait. Well, how can people get in touch with you can contact with you. They want to know more information. You know,
my website. So Allison snowden.com. And then I have ww Snowden integrative acupuncture calm. And then you know, Instagram is Dr. Allison Snowden. And then Facebook is Allison Snowden also do me a favor spell.
Justin Trosclair 45:59
Allison? A Ll I so and and then Snowden like Edward Snowden, s n o w? Di n? Awesome. That’s one of those names that could have several variations. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, fantastic. Thank you so much for for coming on the show and sharing what you’ve learned so far and given us some entertainment as well.
Great. Great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it was a lot of fun.
Justin Trosclair 46:29
I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. want to make you aware of a couple of things a doctor’s perspective. net, we got a few things to talk about. We’ve got some free handouts for nerve pain, numbness in the arms and legs and also a 12 exercises. If you experienced back pain and want your core stronger experience and neck and shoulder tightness and pain, these are free to download. Okay, it’s under Resources. Also under the Resources tab is my new book, Neil is acupuncture self treatment guide for 40 common conditions stop the hurting with no needles or meds, your roadmap to self treat your condition painlessly. We’re talking things like anxiety, insomnia, neck pain, back pain, possibly some knee issues, stomach issues, tired arm and leg pain, even a little bit of sinuses, to take all those types of things. This book really is for those they’re busy, they don’t have time to draw it to an office, spend an hour and go back to work. Alright, so allow this book allows you to do it from the from your house, it’s also the person that maybe doesn’t have an acupuncturist within like a 90 minute drive just to go see one. So that’s pretty inconvenient. It’s also for the person who is afraid of needles. So there’s alternatives to that method that we show you in the book. And lastly, for the person who’s like, I really can’t afford as much care as I need. So this is the way invest in a book. And now you’re able to do it at your house with pictures with words and even videos, things that I’ve learned from working in China, Western references, Eastern references and practical experience. So check it out. I think you’re gonna like it. The first book, today’s choices, tomorrow’s health, again, is very 2.0. We got everything from what is chiropractic, what is pain, some exercises and stretches, lots of lessons learned from my time in China, like portion control, is it okay to feel hunger secret recipe Peck and I love talking about it. I haven’t got a whole section on finances like budgeting creating a budget how to scale back if you overspend, which is a huge problem for most people. So I’ll cover that it’s got some really good reviews. So hopefully you will take a look at that. You can get it as a PDF for free or you can pay for it in different areas. Lastly, of course, we’ve got some chiropractic tongue in cheek t shirts about being a mixer, you do rehab, you do adjustments you think adjustments, really a powerful thing. But you also believe that you need to do muscle work and those types of things. We it’s pretty cool shirts, mixers, and under the Resources tab as well. Well, as always, wherever you listen to the show, if you rank it five stars, that would be awesome. And of course on the top right of the website, there’s all the social media icons pick up, follow me interact, and I interact back You got any suggestions? Email me Have a good week.
We just went hashtag behind the curtain and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guests. sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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