Diplomate of Acupuncture Joyce Kawalchuk discusses TCM, 5 elements, cosmetic acupuncture, gut health, farmers markets…
Intensive classes in Shanghai, 5 element nutrition in Germany, Yoga in India, and now General Acupuncture degree in Australia, Christin Zeller joins us to talk all about nutrition in a 5 element viewpoint and life experiences studying around the world.
Like so many guests on the show, her calling to Acupuncture came about from a personal experience that showed her its undeniable benefits for the health conditions she was struggling with.
Learn the differences between a Western style nutrition program vs an Eastern style. Zeller discusses the qi and yin yang of food and how that impacts your organs and emotional states.
Why do we crave the foods that are the worst compliment to our elemental self? She also gives the vices of the 5 different types of people. How important is it to support acupuncture with proper food for your element type to get sustained results?
What is dampness in the body and why is that a troublesome thing?
A fascinating story of how she ended up taking an intensive acupuncture course in Shanghai and lessons taken away from that experience.
Learn some differences between Acupuncture in Brisbane, Australia versus Mainland China. For example: gloves or not, touch the needle shaft or not.
How is it that inserting a thin needle in the skin is not a painful experience?
Anxiety and Depression is a passion of hers and she is ready to help those clients.
Benefits for cooking at home and the fun she had ordering restricted diets while in Shanghai.
How does she determine if and when she should use her industries jargon.
She has a marketing and organization corporate background so definitely tune in for her marketing tips, action plan advice and giving talks on a range of topics to different groups.
What it’s like to have a culture that embraces the early morning routine vs staying up late. Also, acknowledging the differences in varying cultures as well as in love partners to truly embrace and be happy.
Browse her website keystoenergy.com.au Instagram keystoenergy
Peter Deadmans app for acupuncture points Manuel of Acupuncture
This episode is part of the Acupuncture 2018 Series. Put your email to get a Quick Reference PDF of all the episodes.
Show notes can be found at www.adoctorsperspective.net/62 here you can also find links to things mentioned and a complete transcript.
Justin Trosclair 0:02
Episode 65 element nutrition and acupuncture from German Shanghai and Australian studies. I’m your host Dr. Justin trust Claire and today we are Kristin Zellers perspective.
Join 2017 podcast Awards Nominated host Dr. Justin TOEFL. As he gets a rare to see look into the specialties, all types of doctors and guess plus marketing, travel tips, struggles, goals, and relationship advice. Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.
Hello, everybody. Welcome back this week is St. Patrick’s Day, have a safe green weekend. I remember one time I had a kilt. My brother got me when he was traveling the world in the Navy. So I use that as an excuse to wear to the office one time Yes, I wore shorts underneath it. But there was fun. And the patients got a kick out of it. So that works well to anyway, have a fantastic St. Patrick’s Day, wherever you are, and however you celebrate it, just stay safe. We’ll look today. We have a German with a Swiss accent. So if you like accents, you’re going to love this episode, she has studied five element nutrition in Germany, she did yoga in India, she had took some intensive acupuncture classes in Shanghai, which we’ll talk about and then now she is doing general acupuncture in Brisbane, Australia, which is actually very open to acupuncture, but they haven’t really heard about five element nutrition before. So I’m excited today because on in this series, we haven’t really discussed that much about a nutrition aspect. So today we’re going to go deep into that. So get excited acupuncture series, we’re halfway through all the channels can be found at a doctor’s perspective. NET slash six to you can find my new book at needle list. acupuncture.net check that out if you haven’t already. 40 common conditions self treat, no needles. All right, let’s go hashtag behind the curtain.
Live from China. Oh, ladies and gentlemen. We got a special day to day, the internet and the Wi Fi. And the electricity is often my apartment. So I’m live in the hospital. So if you hear some noises, okay, but today’s guest she is German. She has a Swiss the accent. Okay. She has learned five elements nutrition from Germany. she’s learned yoga in India. She did a an intensive foreign based acupuncture in Shanghai and even was able to needle quickly. Pretty cool there. And now she’s in Australia learning general acupuncture. Welcome to the show. Kristin Zeller.
Hi, Justin. Hi. Thanks so much for having me tonight.
Justin Trosclair 2:41
Absolutely. Well, this is exciting. You’re so diverse. Not afraid to travel, not afraid to go against the grain? Because I’m pretty sure. Europe is kind of like America, variants of the Western culture, what Western medicine and acupuncture and all that is a little bit on the fringe. Might be nerve to say that. So how did you end up going on this path? What made you choose acupuncture and not just acupuncture, but like the nutrition part as well,
I think as with many their peers is just like your first own exposure. And for me, when I had my first acupuncture treatment, there was at a time when I was still in corporate business. I was in marketing. I was very focused on my work, and I was pretty stressed. And yeah, rundown at times. So my first acupuncture session left me completely impressed. Like I had immediate impact, for me was just like a little magic. And I was like, I just would love to play these tricks to. But
yeah, so for me, of course, he was just helping me to sustainable life and to just helped me to maintain my balance. Yeah, but then I kind of found a high, I really have to contribute myself, because otherwise, I will just only go back and see my, my acupuncturist. So I started to be more interested in the food side. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 4:12
What does that look like in in the classes that you took? And especially in in another country that I’m not familiar with? Is it your basic This is what be six? Does this is what folic acid does? Or is it this is what a low carb diet is a high fat diet? Kind of what kind of things are you learning in that program?
Well, it’s actually pretty the opposite of the Western medicine side of nutrition. And let’s say, as a user, myself, I found that really like a big relief, because I didn’t have to worry about let’s say the bottom means or me was completely new terminology to me like, well, I learned about ci, like,
what kind of energy is there and food I learned about the yin and yang? Like, you can look at foods from a yin and yang perspective. But then what we learned in five elements is you just put on an other pair of glasses, and you look at how do those foods impact your organs, your tissues? And for me most important, how do they impact your feelings? And for me, personally, going through a two years journey with these amazing teacher. I just found personal my freedom with food, because it was like, I knew exactly what I needed to choose and what situation. And yeah, so.
Justin Trosclair 5:36
So this is like warm food cold food. Oh, well,
yeah. So the yin and yang side is mainly them warming nature, food or cold. So we categorize the food. And there’s things that are neutral, they are pretty much in the middle. And then we have those extremes, which are extremely cool or extremely hated. So in a five elements basic diet, you would just usually go for it. Say for the balance food for the neutral foods, and you avoid extremes. So if you avoid extremes, then you never really get out of balance. And if you do, let’s say, well, there’s Christmas and you kind of get into an excess day to eat a lot. And if you drink a lot, then well you also know which foods to choose to balance this day to. Yeah, to get back into shape and just like in a good emotional state to
Justin Trosclair 6:38
are you able to treat things like acne or that’s good, like Agni, constipation, things like that. If you look at their food, and then say, hey, you’re either way too much spicy food, stop being introduced these types of foods. And you’ll notice that it’ll calm down in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, the beautiful thing is, you look at the individual. So there’s a concert you and like, when I see someone would look at what what is the normal constitution of that person? And then what is his parents died? So maybe a person who is element of metal will tend to join us. So it’s kind of ironic that
as people, we actually favor those foods that are no good for us. So for example, these people, they would love to eat crackers, and just like snack a lot, and why they would need some inputs just like to not get to dry. Yeah, so it’s like very, very individual. So it’s not the same food for everyone. And it’s not the same advice for everyone. And yeah, to answer your question, yes, constipation, there might be different reasons for it. But yeah, you can treat it through picking the right foods. Well, also acne acne usually, well, often some dampness in the body. So we all have some dampness. So maybe as a term dampness needs to be explained. Like in in Chinese medicine, dominance is an accumulation of fluids. That’s often because of Yeah, let’s say your lifestyle your food choices, or maybe also have to the excess wearing that. And it slows down everything in the body like dampness is pretty heavy. And it’s it has these downward things also, like with the moods weekends, just like a little slow with everything and just like not, yeah, not so easy to get into a drive, you know, so we want to get rid of that dampness.
And then we’ll the skin will clear up but like all the other parts, the other aspects like tissues, they will be
Justin Trosclair 8:55
blessed. Ready or something?
Yeah, that’s it. Yeah, that’s awesome. Dad says,
Justin Trosclair 9:01
If I put you on the spot, feel free to be like, ah, but there’s five elements. What are maybe one or two stereotypes of a type of person? Like for metal? fires that one of them? I think and water? This couple others? Obviously. Yeah, one of my water to maybe stereotypes like these people tend to eat more sugar, these people tend to eat more chips, anything like that?
Yeah, like, well, the sugar people, usually, the earthy people, they love the sugars.
I often find lots of proof or stereotypes like in the element of metal, like the perfectionism.
So that’s a pretty evidence. And sometimes like, a metal person likes to judge and analyze what’s happening around people. And they also have certain way of eating, like, they’re like the food to look now. And like, I have a very good friend, she loves to have these super tiny portions, but it has to be really nicely decorated. And if you gave her a big, big plate of spaghetti, and it will be too much, you’d be like, Oh, no, and she will rather be put off by it. So she, she wouldn’t love to start? Well, me, I’m a I’m a good person. For me, if a portion isn’t big enough, I’m already said before starting.
Yeah, the the elements, they have like these different character traits. And often, you know, like, people, you can just put them into one area, often they have maybe one or two major elements, and have to be like, give it a little time. And when you meet a patient client, and well discover it bit by bit, and then help them to, to use, like the really positive traits that they got. Because it’s like their assets. Right. And if they have a travel, like if they write in an imbalance, maybe because of their food, or because of their lifestyle, for example, perfectionism, you can, you can really help them to ease up a little bit. Like over time, it would take a lot of time, but when they change their diet, and they might get a little bit calmer, and yeah, more at ease with things. So we’re time.
Justin Trosclair 11:30
Interesting that there’s so many people like, this is a very foreign kind of still kind of a foreign concept to me, and I’ve been in China for over three years. But there’s a lot to learn if you talk about the mineral and the earth and all that type of stuff. But yeah, the people who run with like, they don’t talk about a lot here. So I’m sure to get the the audience is kind of like what she was talking about. It’s like, Look, just listen to what she’s saying. You can google it afterwards. Give you a second eat right for your blood type. Okay, well, you can can Google that and kind of get an idea of what a little bit more in depth what she’s talking about again and go research or more. If you find it, its peak somebody’s interest. That’s that’s my point that piques your interest, there’s more you can learn just from what she’s saying. And you’re like, Okay, now I have a better picture of the full picture. So,
yeah, well, it’s associates associates, you usually, when I coach people, I love to put it in several sessions, just like because if you’re new to these terms, it just takes time to grasp the concept. And you don’t want it to be overwhelming. It’s like learning a new language. And like a new, putting on new glasses, if you give it a chance. And if you invest a little bit of time, it means just like not wanting to understand everything, just like listen to it. And well, let’s do it.
Yeah, it won’t come.
Justin Trosclair 12:56
Before we push record, you were talking about going to Shanghai, it was a four month intensive foreigner based program at a tease one of the biggest TCM hospitals in the country. And you had mentioned that after maybe six weeks, you’re already starting to like needle tell us a little bit more about that maybe some of the things that you learned some lessons you pulled away, and did it it contribute to wanting to finalize the acupuncture party retraining, or what?
Yeah, that was a pretty intense time actually. I saw I’ve signed up for the course while I was traveling, I found this program by the Shanghai University. And they were advertising it for people that have made medical background. But they didn’t it didn’t say it’s exclusive. So I contacted them and asked, hey, you know, I have a corporate background? Can I participate in that program? I was saying yes, of course you can. Because it’s a beginner. And I was okay, good. And I will be happy because I had all my five elements, nutrition basis of like how I got the basics. But then when I when I arrived, it was pretty full on. Like, in the first six weeks, we like we had full day schedule of the fundamentals. And like,
I was happy, sometimes at night to call it a day, you know, like because it was very intense. And then after six weeks, we had exams, also needling like in class, like you can imagine we were sitting in a classroom, and we were putting needles into, I’d say other students and this was like an exam. And afterwards, he was saying, Okay, now you can go holiday into the local clinics. So we will split you up in teams, and you will work with those doctors and clinics, just follow them observe and see, and maybe they will ask you also to needle. And I was just super lucky, I was in a group with three more agents. So they were all speaking boundary. While I was not. And so that was very exciting to go into this hospital department, there were like 20 beds for the day patients. So in those little teams, it was just really cool. But here’s like, they helped me a lot to, to talk to patients when I needed to. I learned a few sentences what the issue was, like, I asked the questions, and maybe I got my tones, right. I mean, you will know how difficult is to get the tones, right. And they understood what I was asking. But if they answer to me, I was lost again.
Yeah. Understand whatever they
Justin Trosclair 15:33
they don’t just point they just want to give you a story.
Yeah, I can only have yes or no, sorry.
Yeah, come on. And,
you know, the best experience, the best lesson was really, because the doctors they only know acupuncture points in Chinese language. So each of the points like we call them for example, the court stomach 36 o’clock, Suzanne Lee. And without knowing the Chinese name, I would have not known what I have to to do. So it was like a really good lesson for me to learn all the acupuncture names, it was good motivation. And
Justin Trosclair 16:07
so they actually taught you like those names versus long nine or something. 36.
Yeah, they were just throwing it at you. Like when they were, like very busy to doctors are saying, like, just the easy points on the legs. And we’re saying, okay, Kristin, you do as a leader who you just like at some point, so we’re just throwing out the names. Yeah.
Yeah. And I was like, Okay, my mind. Okay.
And then afterwards, they were checking your did it right? Well, they didn’t, they didn’t ask us to needle like points on the on the back or in the neck, you know, nothing
like that. They would prove the concept about just like very safe points are the legs and the patient in China are pretty cool, actually, about
Justin Trosclair 16:55
the kind of student you know what you’re doing? They generally just if you’re in here, you must be qualified. So. Okay.
And they also chatted with by age. So I’m like, 38, I look pretty senior.
Justin Trosclair 17:09
Anyway, so that helps, too.
Yeah, but I really love the interaction with the patients. So they, they were very friendly and welcoming.
Justin Trosclair 17:19
That’s awesome. That’s cool. And then now you made it all the way to Australia. And your Are you in an official program now to where when you’re finished, you can hang a shingle on the wall and start charging patients.
I hope I can. Yeah, that’s the plan. That’s the plan. So I always had this dream of having a bachelor studies in Chinese medicine. And it wasn’t just like, by chance that I had this destiny or goal of going to Brisbane, I had a friend whom I met three years ago, and she told me about the college here. And I mean, the quality has been here for more than 20 years is really good teachers. It’s a huge Chinese medicine community here in Brisbane.
And I came to visit last year, just like to check it out. And I went to the clinic to get some treatments. And well, I could quickly see the differences between a treatment in China and a treatment here with all the safety procedures, everything I talked to. I talked to many students and I just found our that’s a really good place to be.
Justin Trosclair 18:28
And yeah, then this little more cleaner in Australia, I’m guessing.
Justin Trosclair 18:33
They take the step takes a little more serious.
Justin Trosclair 18:40
Do you wear gloves by chance in Australia? Did they teach you to wear gloves? Or is it still a loveless system?
So at college, we use clubs upon taking needles out on the hand.
Like that we most of the Nila, we, we were glass, that’s just a college thing. Like in practice, you don’t think too, but there’s some. There’s some rules, like for example, touching the needle in China, and you were taught like how to how to hold the needle. You would you can touch the shaft that well here in Australia strict rules like you’re not allowed to touch the shaft. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 19:18
No, you mean the shaft is like the early part. Are you talking about that? It’s actually needle part. It’s
the actual needle part that interests the skin. Because in China was just like at the hospital to disinfect in your hands. And then after that you you touch the needle, you insert a needle? Yeah, yeah. And you do free had mostly? And? Well, I’m happy if you’re good at it. Yeah.
Justin Trosclair 19:44
Use those two inch ones in like la where you like push it into a three times to get a deep into
the really big ones like yeah, also. Yeah, actually inserting your first needles into patients like quite a challenge. There is this funny thing about my block. And I’ve seen it here with other students to I had my first mind block in China. Like, if you’re concentrating more on, let’s say, the skin than actually visualizing the needle to go in. And if you’re not in a relaxed state, it can be really hard to insert a needle, which is not pleasant for which is not pleasant for the patient. So it really needs a good state of mind to have a good kneeling technique. And yeah, this takes practice.
Justin Trosclair 20:34
I am I think I told this story, the podcast before but I was doing my wife on the first for the first time, like, the spot on your elbow, elbow crease area, pretty common spot. The doctors like I just really need to do it. Like All right, here we go.
Put it in,
Justin Trosclair 20:50
pulled it out later. Bruce
Oh, it was like, Oh,
Justin Trosclair 20:57
Blame the doctor for not pointing to the exact spot better.
It was fine. It was fine. Nothing really happened. It just a little bruise for a few days.
Yeah, that’s also I think, as a student you had used to just like all sort of being been bruised by other students and be relaxed about it. It’s just like, well, we all learning, we’re learning so that eventually when we practice on patients, you know, like these days, when we use poppers, it’s just like there’s there’s not much of a sensation upon they should not be at cessation on the insertion into the skin that shouldn’t be felt. You afterwards you have these pulling sensation, which we call the CI. But yeah, the needle insertion as such, it should really be without sensation, no pay for sure.
Justin Trosclair 21:43
At this point in your schooling. And with all the stuff that you’ve done, do you have a specialty that you’re looking to get into,
say, interested in the psycho emotional area like that has always been fascinating for me already. This five elements are
like, when you’re balanced, live with food intakes, and you nourish five elements that you get into, let’s say, a battery, emotional state and have better mindset, better focus. And, well, the same like with the needles, well, I want to learn like doing my studies. Now I’m a second year. So now I we want to learn more about the emotional area and like effective treatments. with soap emotional disorders, I find that the most common thing and kind of hidden thing, like what people are really bothered with his anxiety and depression these days, and is really very for me to sometimes find out how many people use antidepressants. without you knowing for a long time, it’s just like, then you learn that so many people take antidepressants, because to.
And it’s kind of a wishlist work, I think, because once you start with the antidepressants, people, usually they will take it for the rest of their lives. not crazy.
Justin Trosclair 23:07
Yeah, that they would never be able to get off of it. For whatever reason, it just blows my mind.
Yeah, it’s really hard for them to get off. I Yeah, I know, several people who like to, but then if they’ve been into for a few years, it’s it becomes very hard. And I just know that with acupuncture, there’s really good potential to help people with any emotional upsets. And sometimes, you know, we have, like hard moments in life, we have our challenges. Well, I had them too.
Justin Trosclair 23:42
Yeah, you kind of need it sometimes. Yeah,
yeah. And then and then you need support. And I will always very, very lucky to have good practitioners around me. So I and I wasn’t, well, I didn’t need medication. And that’s what I would love to give to people like in the future, like alternatives that they know if they feel depressed. Because in Chinese medicine, how I understand it, also with five elements, nutrition, you know, we can we can offer a psychotherapy to help people overcome their problems and maybe change their perspective. And also, if we start to restore their organs, they are much more likely that they also get the psyche emotional balance, you know, like, if, for example, the kidneys and strong or let’s say someone has a really weak digestive system. And this has been due to many, many years of constant overthinking and very, something like that, which has been built up over time, if you have to restore the functions and the digestive system, like this plane, that’s really one of the core organs in the Chinese medicine system. Because together with the stomach, it’s like where we build our energy. So where we transform the food that we get, you know, we have to the body needs to transform it into energy to change. So if those organs don’t work, because maybe they have been a bit neglected in the last year’s, then we don’t get as much of our food as as we could. So we strengthen those organs. And then things come back into balance. And when these things come back into balance, also the cycle emotional follows automatically. So and that is the wonderful thing. Like I know that by giving a frank thing that organs we can
Justin Trosclair 25:42
come on computer. Okay, now you’re back. I’m back. Yeah, you’re back.
Okay, where was I caught.
Justin Trosclair 25:49
The last part was when you start getting say the spleen veteran, the kidney better the my guess was, is in more Western is maybe all these things are working. And now the whole rooms are actually able to be produced correctly, and the body is able to actually process them and turn them out. And this, this get rid of whatever is necessary as well. And then then the Chinese know, five element or acupuncture, they’re going to use different terms for that. But in its kind of it might be that’s kind of what it’s doing. It’s kind of fine tuning your body, by your diet by your organs actually doing what they’re supposed to do. Yeah, and it’s interesting that you’re saying, you can actually do that not just with needles, but actually with food. Yeah, and assessing all these things.
Yeah, well, it’s just like it things that build up over many years. It also takes a lot of time to restore. So I think food is the right methods for you know, things that have been there for a long time. If you change your food intake, then yeah, it’s just like more likely that your results are more sustainable. You know, like, for example, we have we have mentioned this term of dampness and I must say like, what my own experience because I didn’t know better I was an actual vegetarian like I think almost like by birth I never wanted to eat animals meat. And then well what do you do I grew up in a time when when no one really knew tofu in my village you know, like there was
no big town we didn’t have an organic supermarket and was like, Oh, you’re vegetarian. Oh my god, what are you going to eat? It was during my teenage four times that I started to eat lots of dairy products and I think I really I’ve ever done because it was like okay, if you don’t eat meat and you have to eat a lot of dairy I didn’t know better.
But anytime dairy products are very cooling and they can create what we call them does in Chinese medicine. And like with my excessive consumption, I really contributed to that and data put my book or the completely out of balance I need I need it really I needed a long time I would say I needed those one or two years and he just went like dairy free or did you have to not only go dairy free but each other things to also put the remove the damage also eat differently like you know if I had the opinion that dairy is like my protein. I just went over to have other sources of protein. I’m now I’m eating more vegan and because of Chinese medicine, I even started to eat some fish. Like a time. Okay, yeah. And well, I think I have a how’d you make it in China? In China? Well, works like in everything.
Justin Trosclair 28:46
Oh, you want some vegetables? We’re going to throw some pork in there. So it tastes good.
I had my I had my most favorite restaurant. We always like we were little group we went to that restaurant near University. Don’t buy
Dong. And we had just like these huge vegetable plates. And it was like the waitress already knew us all the crazy European Lady and the well I have my Chinese friends with me is here again. And we had all these exclusions, you know, they were asking like Boudreaux know made
these exclusions having no dairies easy in China, right. So that’s at least Yeah, they don’t really have Yeah, only only what they eat these days. Is this Western all these Western case? Like if you go to a large city like Shanghai or was it feels like they are changing diet now to they they love everything with the West
Justin Trosclair 29:45
when they charge high prices for these things, so I don’t know if that’s helpful at all. You know, that might help them to want to do it too. Did you know The freeze boob aging change now? Now? I so Oh no. We say it a lot here. No MSG.
That’s one of those two things we always say when we go eat out if we can if we can help. Let’s not eat more MSG, then we need because then put that thing on that like, amount of salt people. Yeah, so you want to be excluded from the crystals you like? No, I don’t, I don’t realize what it’s doing to you.
Well, I was very lucky. I had my little apartment, but sharing with other people and I was able to cook while I was in China. Because apparently that’s also something maybe you’ve noticed I just heard from so many people in China, they are not cooking anymore. They don’t even have kitchens in new apartments. They just having deliberate Oh, it’s
Justin Trosclair 30:43
Yeah, it’s you know what it is it the prices are so low even for like the people that make you know, regular money, it’s kind of like in America is going to McDonald’s. Like you can just get something at a price where you just like it found a cooked with the time and then the cleanup, I probably spent more money by actually cooking at home. So they just eat out. But it’s like, dude, you don’t know what you’re getting. Like, they don’t really have the huge regulations with the oil like you don’t know how old the oil can be the stuffing
like they ever you are whether you’re in China or somewhere else, if you cook at home, you know what’s in and you usually you just have so many more nutrients, you know, you have like fresh produce. And you probably cook with less sold and less fats and better, better sources. Because it’s just, of course restaurant is dependent on the number of guests and they will just want you to please you with lots of that’s a very, very yummy food. So there will always be some additional source and some additional fat and just to make it very good job is to make you
Justin Trosclair 31:45
enjoy. Yeah, unless you’re going to like a vegan restaurant. My goal is to just make it taste. Yeah. And that means salt and fat and deliciousness. So, how man, that’s fine. Well, what would you say are some of the misconstrue options so far that you’ve learned about your profession, and what people kind of butt heads with you about
often is not just misconception, it’s people they don’t really know. And everything, which is kind of boring, is sometimes in the first moment bits, Gary, especially what I learned is like any new coaching clients, I don’t want to overwhelm them with terminology. So I’m like, I use the terms like dampness all the things I use like rather’s costly. And I explain in words that they can understand and just like Get, get rather to, let’s say, a feasible advice for them. So, and not overwhelm them with, like, let’s say the system, because it can be scary for people if they do not grasp the overall concept. And well, you don’t at first, it takes a bit of time. So give it in little pieces create an interest, actually, since it’s working, it’s speaking for itself. So it’s like, as soon as they have experienced, like people who have had acupuncture, or people will have been on a five elements diet for a while. They know. And then there is no more doubt and they will usually they also speak favorable of it. So to usually, like bring the whole family in for things, you know, like, yeah, that’s usually how it works. Like, you know, if something works for you, and you find a good and you’re like, fascinated, you’re like, oh, I’ve got this new thing, and you’re sharing. So yeah, and I think precisely here in Brisbane, it’s a place where acupuncture has been growing for many, many years, not so much five elements nutrition. So like this is very new term. And I am pretty aware of that. But like with acupuncture, people are very open in Australia. Everything energy. I love that when I when I arrived here was like, Oh, my God is like freedom because people are just not afraid of speaking of, I’d say holistic things and like their body relation, like terms like energy, that’s such a common word. just embrace. Yeah. Like, we don’t use it in my language. Now we don’t really use it.
Justin Trosclair 34:26
We I was in Queensland randomly and I had to get an Airbnb one night, because it just I didn’t book. I was like, Oh, no, I still have one more day I better find an Airbnb. So I was chatting with the my host. And she was does I forget what it was called now. But it’s like some energy work and some muscle work tied in and all those different things. And it’s like, Where am I? This is crazy. But it
was like, Do you know who you’re talking to here? I’m a chiropractor. I understand this stuff. But yeah, so it was just kind of cool that they have they understand it they embrace as Do you plan to work there? Or do you have to go back to the Europe?
Well, when I go back to Europe, I know like in Germany, I have to I would have to get an SSL certificate by the government for so we’ll have to study another year at least like Western medicine.
For Switzerland where I lived, I think I could get credits, maybe maybe it would be more smooth to just get my permit for splits it up. But you know what i’m just open and why I wanted to study here. It’s just like, because I feel like I’m a citizen of this world. I was always traveling a lot. And I don’t know where I want to end up. I know I’m going back to China. And accent I’m going back to China. I’m going to know my tones. Really practicing Chinese every day. I’m doing a really cool online course. Just to learn and get these tones, right because I want my taxi, which was like the four tones in Chinese language. Know Me, which progresses Yo, yo, yo, yo, Chinese. Oh, yo, yo, yo, okay. Love her. I love her. I’ve never had such a good.
Oh, yeah. Really, really good. That’s great. Yeah. So and now, after studying that for one year, I feel like Oh, now I can finally start to like, learn some sentences. Because if you if you fail to pronounce these tones, right? When I was in Shanghai, taxi drivers, they didn’t didn’t even understand my address. I was very frustrated.
Justin Trosclair 36:34
Yeah, they don’t even it’s not like English work and kind of figure out like, I think he said something earlier with a W and is supposed to be a via. And I was like, but I know what she said. That’s fine. But in Chinese know, like, they did look at you tipa
tipa? Don’t come on. I said just a that’s a How hard is it?
It’s like, if you don’t get a tone, right? It changes the meaning of the word completely. Right. So yeah. So yeah, I have to be careful what you say. You might say very funny things.
Justin Trosclair 37:08
But that’s okay. Because if you can take a joke, like, if you don’t mind being the butt of the joke, it’ll make a whole lot easier. I say that. And I should probably know how to speak the whole language at this point. But as much to my chagrin, you kind of mentioned this, are you, I think you probably have this already. As far as marketing, you got to market yourself, you probably got to get clients sometimes in the in the clinic, you know, in different areas you already had. So any any tips or tricks that work to have more patients and more people to coach?
Hmm, all right. So like, I think the things that I I’m benefit from, like what I learned when I was in marketing communication, I was I was running a little team and I had to be really organized. So like making up plans, and
well, now being kind of self employed.
I also need to make my plans, you know, and that’s just like, maybe a thing, because I, I’ve done it for many years, you know, I, I create my own marketing plan. I know I have an action plan.
So I think planning is key, in a way, and then we’ll have a strategy. Like for me, I, I call it my my business keys to energy, because it incorporates everything because I as I already said, it’s not just acupuncture is not just a nutrition, and yoga exercise.
So I can put everything together under one roof. And I just believe like for the individual, with his constitution with his personal story, and well, his his current state of mind and work and environment.
It’s just like having this individual solutions. Everyone has his personal kind of keys to energy, which I just work on with a client when I see him. So that’s my dear. That’s my strategy, just like bringing it all together, and then making it a good choice for the client. And I think I’ve seen Now many people here graduating from college and starting their businesses. And I think here this is a country where people can just it’s not very friendly for people to create a business. It’s like you
said, it feels like easy, this environment accommodates this, and I’ve seen many acupuncturist now starting their own their own little businesses and putting up their advertisement. And well, I think you always attract your clients. Like, I think your energy by you, you find your tribe.
Justin Trosclair 39:54
Yeah, you do. Yeah, you’ll find your tribe. When you’re talking when you see all these new people coming out. And you will tell you have a corporate background, which is really a good thing. Are there any pitfalls that new graduates should be aware of to avoid so that they can actually hit the ground and be successful and maybe less less struggling?
Here, I think I’m a little hesitant because, you know, if I if I haven’t, like, done the, like, I haven’t opened an acupuncture clinic. So I want to be one of your bit hesitant about giving advice about things that I haven’t done myself. So yeah, I know, I know about about my coaching business now. And I know that you need perseverance. Definitely. Like, just like also in the beginning, you know, you have to kind of not be hesitant to put yourself out there. I started to give things for free. Because if you give things for free, like you give advice for free, it’s this is I have like you’re getting market it’s on a Sunday to local health shop and having a corporation and like address current topics that bother people Beat, beat depression, beat diabetes. Yeah, just focus on a topic and give people something which is really bad. Although meetups is really good as well like to find some groups and maybe offer to give a talk in a group. Maybe another.
Justin Trosclair 41:23
What was that called,
again? meetup. You know that? It’s like, a window. Yeah. And that’s a platform. So they were some health groups, and sometimes they invite you as a speaker. And you can just enter that meeting for certain night and you give a speech about, well, acupuncture, you’re building your acupuncture is about, or maybe about foods about things people can do about exercise. Yeah, so there’s plenty room. And I think it’s important to put yourself out there and persevere. That’s like what I know now as well. Like, not to give up. Keep going like in well enough first time. Yeah. Because Well, it’s, it’s not given that you just start up like a rocket, you know, you have to be Yeah, you have to be continuously work.
Justin Trosclair 42:11
You know, I’ve heard if we knew how hard it was going to be, we probably wouldn’t have done, it gets a good thing that’s a little ignorant of how much work something’s going to take. Because you wouldn’t even start. And then once you’re in it, you’re like, all right, well, I have no, I can’t stop. There’s no past the point of return of I gotta power through it. I gotta hire a coach, I gotta figure this out too deep into it. Now. That’s a good thing.
Yeah. And you have to find that thing. That is a real pleasure. Like, if you love your business, like if I put some if I can speak about who’s I’m pretty happy. So I’m like, Hey, you know, why do you can go somewhere you can speak about food. So even if I offer free talk about it, and I can make some people happy. You know, like, I can see I, for some people, it says like, oh, wow, that was executive information that they needed. Well, then it was worth going. So
Justin Trosclair 42:59
give me your know.
Give me your email. So I can follow up with you. If you don’t become a patient.
It’s might be free. But I gotta get something out. No. Well, let’s see here. When we’re talking about school, we’re learning a whole bunch of stuff. It can be all consuming. We’re most doctors on this on this podcast. So we all know what it took to become a doctor and going through all the book work and everything. But we can’t forget hobbies. We can’t forget about self care. Yeah. What are some of the things that you do to keep you focused and balanced?
I guess yoga helps me a lot. Because I started yoga many, many years ago, and I’ve been practicing Ashtanga, which is like a self practice style of yoga. And I haven’t been seeing a teacher now for a while. It’s just like, for me my morning routine that I do, I don’t do i do it very gently, like not always a full practice. So like, in the philosophy of Chinese medicine, you know, we were we should always be in balance, like not getting stressed about things. So I can do my practice if the time allows, otherwise, it will be bit shorter. But there is no day that I just jump into the day, right that I would never do. I always do some kind of practice. I do yoga, she Gong or some breathing techniques. Can you hear me?
Justin Trosclair 44:24
I can hear you. I see lights flashing in the hospital. I’m hearing sirens are like what is happening? This happened two days ago at work, too. I was off today. But I’m back. Are you back?
Yeah. Electricity, psycho. The Wi Fi restarted.
Bada bing, bada boom, it must be real.
Justin Trosclair 44:46
This is while this is unusually.
Alright, so you want to hear a little bit about the morning routine?
Justin Trosclair 44:54
Yeah, yes. So you you feel like you can’t just get up and go, you’ve got to do it. Little bit of yoga.
Yeah, that’s gonna work. Because you know, I don’t say people have to practice yoga. I’m not really like doing yoga every day. Sometimes it’s cheap. Sometimes it just breathing. But don’t crash into the day. That’s what I would say was like key principles. Like in the morning, if you use the mobile to wake up? Well, don’t check. don’t check the notes. As a first thing. I would say first thing, sit with yourself. So I usually I get up, I opened the doors, I say to my prom deck. And using my phone is even on flight mode at nights. And then only after I finished my practice, I had my at least half an hour for myself, that I’m going to switch on the phone. And then we’ll because of the time difference in Australia, all these notes from my friends overseas, they talked about, you know, you hear the messages coming in and like okay, now I’m ready. And then yes, which is? Yeah, it’s also important in Chinese medicine, that you have a routine that you eat regular Lee and that you have a good nourishing warming breakfast. So I will not leave the house without having cooked my breakfast and eaten. eaten it. So I at least need one and a half hours in the morning to be ready for the day.
Justin Trosclair 46:15
Wow. That’s something for me to grab onto. That’s not me. When I do have it. I’m like, wow, I accomplished a lot
of my podcast, sometimes it’s five in the morning. And then I’m like, well, do I really want to go back to bed for another hour before I start my day is like No, okay, what can I do? You like, wow, just got a lot accomplished. Maybe I should like do this more often. I
guess what people do here in Australia, it’s actually amazing. I mean, we’re talking now it’s 9pm. At night, I think probably 80% of the people here in Brisbane I bed. I was so astonished in the beginning as like, wow, it’s live so boring here that people go to bed. So already.
Like here in my apartment on my flip my sale or email sleeping, probably, it’s just a different lifestyle. Because people here often they get up at the sunshine and the sun is out for 35 o’clock. So it’s really beautiful, you wake up here in Queensland sun is out the wake up naturally. And then I could go for a run five in the morning, you know, it’s just,
it’s really beautiful to start the day early. And it’s just a shift in in lifestyle here, at least for Queensland, I don’t know about the other states was great.
Justin Trosclair 47:32
Well, we’re going to switch gears a little bit more, we’re getting a little more personal little more personal, before we wrap this up, we all have love significant others, things like that, any kind of advice so that these relationships can last and be fulfilling longer.
Well, you know, I looked at everything a little bit in these five elements point of view, and I see how different constitutions act with each other, like for me have to see and kind of acknowledge the certain aspects and your partner. And just like, acknowledge the differences and let those differences be. Because, you know, sometimes when, let’s say, some people, they are very, very accurate with things, some people they are very, very tidy. And some people are very, very expensive. Like expanding me for some I just live a person, I can be very expensive. Like where I am, you see, she’s there, you know, just like arrive, there’s like lots of luggage and whatever, just like I’m very present, you know, like, maybe
another person like a metal person, they would use one thing and after they use it, they put it back into where it belongs to because there’s a certain place, you know, instead of trying the partner to be like you or whatever, it’s just like, we get to appreciate each other for our differences. Well, we can find compromises on things, you know, but also just like you have these different personalities, and it’s good this way. So definitely gotta let go of things and be very much at ease for things. And for me, this has worked out over the last couple of years. I am I can’t get upset about many things. No, really. Now, it’s just
Justin Trosclair 49:28
No, I’m with you. I’m the guy that leave the shoes out on like, the jackets on the on the couch. I’m gonna wear it in about why would I go hang it up?
Yeah, I know. Sometimes,
Justin Trosclair 49:43
it can drive you crazy. If you’re not into it, though.
Yes. Yes, it could rise
Justin Trosclair 49:48
to this perspective.
yeah. I say embrace, like you
Justin Trosclair 49:53
said, I like your answer. Because you’re not really going to change the person and say you have a choice, you can either be upset about it all the time, or just kind of flow with Yeah,
that’s it and just be happy. I mean, like, if you imagine that this doesn’t bother you. Just like, if you didn’t have the thought would live not be much easier. And then just skip the thoughts that things have to be different than they are just take them as they are. And, well, usually, when you when you let go of things, sometimes things fall into place automatically, you know, like, because often it is that we might not be like our partners, you know, we might be different. But there’s something when they are different that we we sometimes admire that. And maybe gradually, you know, like, gradually we kind of also take it on, you know, it’s just like we learn, we learn it gradually we implement these things to become like a bit more similar. You know, like, there’s the saying that a long time they become more similar. Yeah, so let things grow naturally and accept each other’s differences,
Justin Trosclair 51:00
you know, have a thought on, you know, these old couples that kind of look similar. It’s like, there, it makes sense. They live in the same house, they had the same environmental factors, they probably ate generally the same food, but the last 20 or 30? Yes, it makes sense that you’re going to morph an age kind of similarly, you know,
yeah, it kind of carries this idea of energy. You know, when you have like, another person’s energy around you continuously.
Justin Trosclair 51:26
You know, it could be good and bad, depending on how you choose the deal.
Justin Trosclair 51:32
I think we’ve all been in a toxic relationship where we’re like a clever lesson learned.
You might have some of these fours, hopefully, a favorite book, a blog or something like that, that you secretly love. And then ones that you would recommend for others.
Well, when it comes to food, then I would say, definitely I love Paul Pitchford. Pitch 14, he has a book, which is called healing with Whole Foods. And actually what is what is really fascinating with him, what I like is that he mentioned all the aspects from Asian philosophy. So when he looks at food, he will just like, explain the energy, like, let’s say, the atomic energy or the like, the impact on organs, like from a Chinese medicine point of view. But also he will mention Western medicine, details, like nutritional details.
Yeah, like, special parts of things. Like, what did I read lately was about the sheetrock a, for example, it there is your volume in it, you know, like, it kind of explained things that in Chinese medicine, you know, when you know, when we know things from experience medicine, in Chinese medicine, like we know things from experience tradition, because it has been working this way, and it has been proven. But then it’s sometimes really nice to get this Western medicine backup for things.
Justin Trosclair 53:09
I have this conversation with my wife all the time, because she’ll say, Oh, it’s eat this, it’ll be good for your liver, and detoxify your kidneys. And this and that. And I’m like, What are you talking about? It’s papaya. But you know,
nobody works. It really does. I’m like, I’m sure it does, maybe, maybe it’s the high quantity of vitamin C, or, you know, I kind of mess with it, or like, I’m going to Western or like maybe it works because of this. And not because of this, but that’s how they are with their teas. Like they’ll make tea with rose hips and like criticism and flowers and all these different things. And everyone has a different reason. Like, I’m drinking it because
Justin Trosclair 53:50
like those five flowers that’s in your tea really feel like that’s going to do something like, you know, the West is like, No, you need to take that course cinnamon flower, give you 250 milligrams extra extract that makes it powerful. Take that, that’ll get you something not drinking tea all day,
for a month.
but that’s the two worlds colliding right there.
I just believe you have to, to try things. And the beautiful thing that the five elements is, but when you practice it over, I would say over long time, it’s like your your body get like a natural detox, and what it does, it increases your intuition. Because as long as there’s sadness in the body, it’s like, well, I would say our intuition is kind of blurred, you know, we get these cravings for things that we don’t really need. So it’s not these healthy craving, or the craving that really indicates Yeah, what is good for us. But when you have a five elements, diets, and the body has been balanced over a long time, it’s like your intuition grows, and you can make those choices more wisely. And also, you get just like more conscious of whatever, when you consume, you know, like, if you had at a certainty, like peppermint tea or so you would recognize even that it is a warm drink, but it is calling you would just like you would not have this is refreshing, you know, you just become more aware of things. Or that if you had a really spicy meal, and you start sweating, you know, you know, this is because of those really spicy meal that you’ve just had. Yeah, it’s just increasing awareness for the thing. So and then you can go and experiment because it’s not just about believing, I think you you have to try everything not doubted. Just like, try, use and explore, discover it. Find your own opinion have
Justin Trosclair 55:44
a little faith is just
just food. If it were really happy.
Justin Trosclair 55:49
If it didn’t work, you can always go back to your path. Because that was obviously not
go back to the burger after.
Justin Trosclair 55:56
Yeah, exactly. Well, before we wrap up, I think we have a lot obsession with our phones. Besides social media, do you have any apps that you tend to use on a regular basis that you would like to share?
You mean now health related apps?
Justin Trosclair 56:10
Anything you want, it could be business or your favorite catch a plane app? It doesn’t matter?
Well, I use a lot of communication apps. Well, I I use, of course, Peter documents app for for the acupuncture points. Well, I live with it, I needed to have to look up things. It’s just like, it’s so much, much more convenient these days. You know, like when you are not sure about the impact of of a point to quickly check it. So this is just life saving.
It’s the Manuel Manuel of acupuncture. So Peter that men
and men, well, you’re doing well of acupuncture. So this is well, every every acupuncture is probably noses. So it’s just like really nice and handy to have on your phone. Yeah,
Justin Trosclair 57:01
yeah. Because there’s times I’m sure where you’re, you get that gut intuition. Like I need to needle something else. But it’s been a while since I did that one. Let me look it up real quick. Like Yes, that’s the one. Awesome. OK, now I’m going to remember it next time. Yeah. Least I feel that way. When I was certain things like, What was that again? Okay, now remember? Yeah,
it’s very interesting. We learn hundreds of points. But in the end, I think we Is it is it maybe we need a 15 most important, it’s just like, there is there is a number of points that you use, just like daily. In also maybe, depending depending whether people specialize on on a certain thing, like fertility or whatever things may vary. But it’s just like everyone has like their favorite points. And then well, then you need for these special cases. And yeah, for other conditions. Sometimes you really need you need your manuals, you need your literature. And just like, yeah, have a quick look
Justin Trosclair 58:02
like, yeah, some truth bombs going off.
Well, how can people get in touch with you and find out more information?
So I got a website, which is called keys to energy.com.au for Australia. And well, I share all my information on that website. People can also find me on Instagram, because I’m posting daily on Instagram. Also on the keys to energy and thing on Facebook. So perfect. Yeah.
Very cool. Well, any parting words before we go?
Well, it was super lovely. I’m really excited. Like this was my, my first podcast and it is exactly as you said, I felt like having coffee chat just without coffee. So thank you very much.
Justin Trosclair 58:52
Well, it’s been great. I think it’s been very entertaining. I’ve learned something definitely opens our eyes to for more things and I kind of want to go in figure out what five element eating is all about and see if there’s any charts or anything that I can like bio hack myself. And if I can’t, if other people can’t keys to health.com that au you do coaching I’m pretty sure if you’re not a Skype you could probably get a consultation or something right.
Yeah, let’s say daddy’s keys to energy.com dot A you
Justin Trosclair 59:23
hope you enjoyed this week’s episode want to make you aware of a couple of things a doctor’s perspective. net, we got a few things to talk about. We’ve got some free handouts for nerve pain, numbness in the arms and legs and also a 12 exercises. If you experienced back pain and want your core stronger the experience of neck and shoulder tightness and pain, these are free to download. Okay, it’s under Resources. Also under the Resources tab is my new book, Neil is acupuncture self treatment guy for 40 common conditions stop the hurting with no needles or meds, your roadmap to self treat your condition painlessly. We’re talking things like anxiety, insomnia, neck pain, back pain, possibly some knee issues, stomach issues, tired arm and leg pain, even little bit of sinuses, to take all those types of things. This book really is for those they’re busy, they don’t have time to draw to an office, spend an hour and go back to work. Alright, so allow this book allows you to do it from the from your house, it’s also the person that maybe doesn’t have an acupuncture is within like a 90 minute drive just to go see one. So that’s pretty inconvenient. It’s also for the person who is afraid of needles. So there’s alternatives to that method that we show you in the book. And lastly, for the person who’s like, I really can’t afford as much care as I need. So this is the way invest in a book. And now you’re able to do it at your house with pictures with words and even videos, things that I’ve learned from working in China, Western references, Eastern references and practical experience. So check it out. I think you’re gonna like it. The first book, today’s choices, tomorrow’s health, again, is version 2.0. We got everything from what is chiropractic, what is pain, some exercises, stretches, lots of lessons learned from my time in China, like portion control, is it okay to feel hunger secret recipe, heck, and I love talking about it. I haven’t got a whole section on finances like budgeting creating a budget how to scale back if you overspend, which is a huge problem for most people. So I’ll cover that it’s got some really good reviews. So hopefully you will take a look at that you can get it as a PDF for free or you can pay for it in different areas. Lastly, of course, we’ve got some chiropractic tongue in cheek t shirts about being a mixer, you do rehab, you do adjustments you think adjustments, really a powerful thing. But you also believe that you need to do muscle work and those types of things. We it’s pretty cool shirts, mixers, and under the Resources tab as well. Well, as always, wherever you listen to the show, if you rank it five stars, that would be awesome. And of course on the top right of the website, there’s all the social media icons, pick your flavor, follow me interact, and I interact back You got any suggestions? Email me Have a good week.
We just went hashtag behind the curtain, and this episode has come to an end. I hope you got the right dose for your optimal life. Please spread the word about this podcast by telling to friends, share it on social media and visit the show notes on a doctor’s perspective. net to see all the references from today’s guests. sincere thank you in advance. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin trust Claire giving you a doctor’s perspective.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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