E 144 Touch Education Evidence Informed Massage Matthew Howe

a doctors perspective e144 touch education massage mathew howe
Matthew Howe talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor’s Perspective Podcast.

Bringing evidence back to massage, Matthew Howe of Touch Education gets back to the basics, then builds how to bridge the research to practice, fitting in with a chiropractic or physical therapy office and what can be done for PTSD and other trauma.

What started as a couple classes being taught at his massage alumni turned into an evidence based  or evidence informed massage seminar called Touch Education. He takes the research and teaches it but also how to make it applicable in practice and useable Monday morning. Matthew Howe has a passion for PTSD and is discovering ways to incorporate what he does to facilitate improvement in PTSD sufferers.

Part of his process is reading the peer reviewed journals that pertain to pain science, chiropractic and physical therapy so he can apply and integrate that into massage.

How does orthopedic vs medical vs sports performance massage differ?

What can massage but more importantly someone trained in touch education bring to the chiropractor or physical therapist office? What should the massage therapist look for in a job compared to the DC or DPT?

Do you want a 50 minute feel good massage “pushing oil around” or does the clinic want the focused 15 minute on the chief complaint type of muscle work?

What are some of the common business setups that you see with chiropractic and physical therapist offices? How do you set it up so it’s fair and profitable for both parties?

What does a fair interview process entail for a massage therapist?

How much does performance goals factor into a massage therapists treatment goals?

What is a sacral wedgy?  Sacro Wedgy Male Version and Sacro Wedgy Female Version

Part of his core tenant of the class is getting back to the basics… what does that look like for massage?

What can massage do to help someone recover from PTSD or other Trauma in their lives?

How do the parasympathetic nervous system factor into the healing for trauma?

Trauma informed therapy doesn’t make the person relive the trauma to get results, take a listen to hear why he supports that method.  The patient is able to be in their body without all the stress and physical burden from emotional events, however this isn’t fixed over night.

www.TouchEducation.com and social media is the same.

Books: Bruce Lipton- Biology of Belief, Pete Blaber – The Mission The Men and Me , Dr. Seuss – My Many Colored Days

Show notes can be found at https://adoctorsperspective.net/144 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.

a doctors perspective e144 touch education evidence massage mathew howe


Full Transcript of the Interview <strong> (probably has some grammatical errors)</strong>. Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:05
Episode 144 Touch education evidence informed massage. I’m your host, Dr. Justin Trosclair. Today, we’re Matthew pals perspective,

to 2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties. Let’s hear a doctor’s perspective.

Welcome back. Yes, you know if you’ve heard the episodes for a while, always plug a little something special for myself in the beginning. Today, if you just go to a doctor’s perspective, net slash links, Li NKS. You have everything you need there. Big series, Dennis series, the marketing series, the cash PT series. All those things are right there supporting the show with a cup of coffee, writing a review. All of those things are right there on that site when you pop up. So I encourage you to check it out. Sometimes there’s a lot of episodes like that.

144 you just don’t know where to go and you don’t want to scroll down to one or number 10. So this is a nice way to see a series, see what you like at it. read the synopsis from the PDF, listen to what you want. Now, families excited, we’re going back to New Zealand to the South Island, Queenstown stop off at Christ Church, see some, some hiking, it’s gonna be fun, really excited about it. Although with a one year old, we’re a little nervous. So we have some plans to try to keep her occupied when you’re not having to use car seats as a standard and then you have to, we know there’s gonna be some fights. So Wish us luck. Today’s episode, everything for massage. What is that? He is going to go through it his company, touch education. I would say after listening to this, if he has a network of doctors have taken his seminars, these are the ones that you’d want to hire these type of massage therapist because they get back to the basics. They’re going to figure out how to work as a team with a physical therapist or chiropractor so that you can get the results that you’re looking for.

As the doctor, and for them, they’re getting the results that they want functional results. Okay. One of the things I want to talk about is how does he work in anxiety and PTSD type of recovery with the massage as a unique thing that I hadn’t heard of before? And we’ll talk about that and at the end of the interview, what about a fair interview process? Is it okay to ask for a massage, if you get an hour and you don’t hire them? What then? So we’ll talk about that somebody has favorite tool to use for massage, and a few more nuggets that will just let you listen to audio quality is decent on this one. I’m not sure if it was my internet or his but every now and then you’ll hear a little stutter. I tried to fix what I could shouldn’t take away from anything, but I just want you to know

it’s not quite as crisp and clean as a lot of the other ones. So bear with me in some time. All the show notes a doctor’s perspective.net slash 144. Let’s go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China, in Orlando, Florida, take that hurricane, we still got electricity, we’re going to do this thing. But today on the show, we have a educator called touch education. And I really like some of the mission that he’s on is it’s looking like massage, but then on a higher service, getting the best that you can possibly be and then educating others so that they can do it as well. So I’m excited to have a nice conversation with Matthew how welcome on the show. Thanks for having me. Alright, then I get the last name. Okay. You did you did. Perfect. Well, a unique setting to one to teach and do seminars and all that kind of thing because it is so much work to build a following build a tribe create content that is valuable that people will want to spend their money on, and then also making it to where they can implement on Monday morning. Would that be kind of true? That’s very true. So how did that come about? What’s your backstory? Well, my backstory is

Unknown Speaker 4:01
I’ve got into massage therapy, sort of as a backbone of this divine come gone through a couple of life turning events and one of the last ones, before I became a massage therapist, both of my forms in a car. So laying on the couch, kind of my life in my early 20s going, you know what’s going on, what’s the message I need to get here and just kind of decided I was going to pick up and move to Florida. And within a week I decided to go to massage school. So I actually started massage school, about eight months after the car accident. So that was my rehab back into my body, knowing my body and then jumped out of the social work, working for chiropractors and just applying a trade. And a few years in, I went back to my law school to actually buy some lotion, or the school offered me a job. So thank you, no, I appreciate what you do and how your brain works with you. Each. And that was what around 2000 and 2007, he kind of took me under his wing and said, hey, look, I think it’s time for you to take your teaching to the next level, I think you’ve got what it takes. And you got the ability to communicate that message. And he helped me take that step to becoming a professional education provider. And ever since then, since 2007, we’ve been going at this grassroots style, and trying to make sure that the information I am sharing and I am teaching is a good combination of forward thinking pioneering kind of taking the latest research and science and making it applicable in an able to learn the software studying and the tree so that they can take the weekend and be excited and plugged in and understand how to use those tools come Monday. And then over the last couple of years, it’s become more apparent to me that message, especially with the PTSD work that I’m teaching, it’s time to cross disciplines with it and reach out to other characters.

Unknown Speaker 6:02
Well, you know, a lot of our audience is going to be chiropractors, physical therapists, and I am definitely in the side of a forward thinking chiropractor looking at the evidence, you know, and all that kind of stuff instead of just being dogmatic from the past. So what does that look like for a massage therapist? If you could give us the I don’t know, run of the mill versus what you’re trying to train? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 6:24
Yeah, there’s a lot of really amazing talented instructors out there who had been doing what they’ve been doing for quite some time their work is effective. It works. The deviation from what is currently out there, too, I’m doing is I’m trying to ask questions and find answers and recognize the difference between theory hypothesis and evidence based because it massage evidence based and trying to quantify the power, which is incredibly hard. Yeah. So you know, the way that I kind of look at it as it we start with, let’s recognize it as a therapeutic experience between two people, and then build from there, you can go that way. You know, I’ve spent a lot of time my with first cup of coffee in the morning, I’m doing research on reading, you know, pain science research and reading, KT stuff hungry, you know, chiropractors, often osteopathic stuff, this, I can see what other professions are doing, and seeing how it fits massage so that massage therapists have the confidence to have that conversation with the chiropractors that are working for pts, so that if we find ourselves in the position of sharing clients, or eventually referring clients, we can have the same conversations, and we don’t get stuck, like you said, involved love technology from the 70s. You know,

Unknown Speaker 7:46
both? And what’s that look like? Like? Like a PNF stretching? Or is there any kind of buzzwords that we would recognize that

Unknown Speaker 7:53
are cutting edge at this point, there’s a lot of there’s, you know, there’s people who try and designate one medical system is people will try and talk about orthopedic massages, a lot of the orthopedic and PSA is coming from the sort of PT and sports South Africa. Okay, the medical massage, depending on who you talk to, some people have brought the research from Soviet born and the work that he did, and they’ve started thinking that the massage therapist, but as far as basil, you know, it’s our profession hasn’t done the best job of making ourselves clear in, but we can bring to a chiropractor’s office we could bring to the medical field, because it’s you have one piece of the population who’s diving deep into science, and the other side deep and, you know, so the thought fields, you have the everything needs to space, and then you have everything is very earthy. Yeah, yeah. So for me, I’m trying to straddle both worlds to make sure that we can maintain that competition between the two. But you know, what for, for chiropractors pts, they might want to look for when they’re talking to massage therapist is, you know, the basic anatomical is for muscles, you know, look at, they know about how the nervous system talks to the body. You know, one of the things I read last month was, as a massage therapist, we’ve never actually talked, never actually touched. So to say that we’re heading directly on the top section through the skin first, you know, just kind of a different way of looking at things. So that we can have conversation because, like I said, there’s not a lot of deep science in the massage field is emerging, it’s definitely, there’s definitely some people that are pushing things forward so that we can stay evidence informed. Yeah, until you reach that point of becoming a space, you know, having conversations of worth of in here opening doors for, for myself and for massage therapist to talk to chiropractors to talk to pts, but the instrumentation in the variables that they’re studying in their research, and trying to find a way of how can we cross pollinate to into testing the sock,

Unknown Speaker 10:09
when I think of like, where everything form of massage, I would think sports related, you know, they’re not just, let’s have the incense burning in the soft music, it’s probably out there, where you’re, the patient’s probably like a few that hurts, ah, but then afterwards that I Oh, that’s better, I can actually fully arrange emotion on my shoulder now. And it’s much more of a

Unknown Speaker 10:29
athletes style. When we look at sports massage, I prefer the term looking for sports performance, I prefer the concept of making all of massage performance driven, letting the client or patient choosing what do they want to perform better at, you know, if they’re coming in, because they can’t play tennis anymore, then performance by PR, well, let’s help them get back to playing tennis. For some people who living here in Florida, there’s a bit of an overpopulation sort of might just be they want to be able to function better, you know, do the daily chores better. So from that angle, and then also, you know, people the they work out, they might eat really well. But they’re definitely exhausted, they’re not sleeping well. So for the performance might be how to buy relax better, you know, my first few years in the massage field, were working or with chiropractors. And then I had to make the jump into spa. Because at the time, that was the only massage. Sure. Oh, yeah. But I had an instructor when I was in school, who said don’t change what you’re doing based on where you’re at. So I’ve always been a performance results driven therapist, even when I was working at the spa, so I took every interaction in, okay, I’ve got 15 minutes with this person, what can I do to help enhance their life for the rest of their life? Whether it’s new range of motion awareness, you know, self help techniques, you know, what can I give them to go home with something to help them perform better at home.

Unknown Speaker 11:56
So you’re really looking at a different type of client, then just the person that just wants to feel good for for an hour from some stress, this is probably a more engaged person in general with with what they’re doing in life, like, I have this goal, I’m coming to you to help me get to that goal. That’s I think that’s a different mindset for the for the therapist and for the client. And you just got to find those two people. Is that kind of true. It’s true.

Unknown Speaker 12:20
A lot of a dedicated

Unknown Speaker 12:22
Massage Envy has done a great job in introducing massage to a population that otherwise wouldn’t see that.

Unknown Speaker 12:29
Yeah. But

Unknown Speaker 12:30
now, right.

Unknown Speaker 12:33
Now it’s time to have the education, it’s time to up the game, just because XYZ magazine says deep tissue is the new thing. What does the tissue mean? For our profession, it’s still pretty murky as to what that is, you might have somebody saying British collaboration, and we’re working to your bone marrow, and might have somebody else who uses a lesson piece of touch, but in DVD ability, such

Unknown Speaker 12:57
as the wild thing about 100 light touch for the deep touch, and some people get better results with light and you’re just like, wait, that’s counter to what it’s both what you would think it but then it’s works.

Unknown Speaker 13:09
That’s the gift of the talented massage there. You know, the massage a massage therapist, for me, having done this for almost 20 years, is somebody who just kind of go out there thing you saw professional is going to be performance feminine, they’re going to want to learn to read the tissue, understand what’s happening, understand your clients, give them homework, all of these pieces, and trying to feed them. And that’s all of those messages, what put me into the DNA, right BST program, that because if we can take somebody who’s at that level, and help them begin to perform better in their performance, that level of MONTH BB just make a living worth. They begin living better, they’re less stressed out, they’re less aggressive. Take that to my professional athletes to need go from 95% and 99%. Yeah, you know, for Spain on the grand scale significant.

Unknown Speaker 14:02
Would you recommend people or what should they look out for? When working with, say, a chiropractor, because it seems to me with as PT or chiropractor, it seems like a good route to go. However, I see it on my end. Well, we’re trying to what we’re trying to get out of you guys. And then even the opposite. We like, Oh, man. So what if we were going to hire someone who’s taking your classes? And we’re like, all right, we like you. We like your ideas. That means your students are probably going to be like minded. What are we looking for? And what do you what are you all looking for from us, so that y’all can stay long term and be happy and productive? And everything?

Unknown Speaker 14:38
That’s a great question. Quite a good question as well.

Unknown Speaker 14:42

Unknown Speaker 14:44
We’ll start from a chiropractic, chiropractic perspective. PT perspective is, you know, you want somebody that’s reliable. You know, you don’t want somebody there who’s going to flake and help, you know, so in job history, basic interview things that you would look forward to good Clooney. All of those criteria stay in place, you know, reliable transportation, articulate cold, well mannered programs, things like that, then bet on the extra layer of when they’re looking for, from a chiropractic PT perspective, to the massage therapist, what are their technical and tactical? You know, the, the medical profession is very certification. What classes Did you take, and what certifications do you have? As a person who has trained higher than managing therapist? I’m more interested in what can they do in real time? Can they read can read the tissue? Or they just make them potatoes? You know, do they understand the difference between tight and restricted tissue to they understand what the goals of practical, there’s different impression you have loading chain chiropractors, you got your Palmer trained chiropractors perspective inside the chiropractic profession, so certain massage therapist might align better based on the philosophy of the chiropractor? Right, right. You know, so maybe articulate what your particular perspective is whether you’re, you know, this is going to be a process, are you looking for a massage therapist who’s just going to come in and oiled machine the widget? And thought

Unknown Speaker 16:24
I was gonna ask about that. Because sometimes you can get someone who does here, get your 45 minutes. And then the other ones were like, Look, some examples are tight headaches, I need you to beat them up for 15 minutes or knock your magic however you want to use the right words, but work your magic 15 minutes sub occipital boom. And that’s what we want. I mean, I don’t know, for a therapist, if they prefer one or the other. I think as a doctor, if I was busy enough, I would be more inclined to say, Hey, I’ll pay you hourly, because you’ll be busy. And we’ll just do 15 minute increments at whatever the issue is both hamstrings a little bit, you know, like I said, the, whatever your issue is, that’s what we’re going to work on, and get you the best results possible. Instead of me doing it with my own skills. I’m going to hire somebody that does it full time. Sure.

Unknown Speaker 17:10
Yeah. Then it was the question of, are you going to be an employer independent contractor? Uh huh. You know, for, for the chiropractic side, you know, I see the value of both sides. As long as that is, clearly find what the intention is for the therapist to do and the chiropractor is looking for then talk about just k take, you know, be open, be honest, be authentic, be real. If you’re looking for, you know, somebody to just slide lotion around, say that, you know, we’re looking for someone to help improve our customer service experience. I’m going to be doing on the take care of the essence weapon, the wellness side, I need you to make things nice, cool. You know, but if you’re looking for somebody who come in, in detail, then like this cut this patients suffering from right side headaches, often puts one way CYTT are going the other way. headaches are coming from these muscles are essential little little diseases are coming into play loaded. What does that mean to you? And because if that’s what you’re looking for them, you’re gonna need to be able to carry that conversation with you.

Unknown Speaker 18:21
Is it wrong for us to ask for a sample? It’s

Unknown Speaker 18:24
know, is it annoying for y’all? Because I mean, sometimes I feel weird, like, all right, I need you. But I don’t want to see what you feel like. And I’m like, what I do that for somebody else. Like, I think we’re carpeted, we will still want to see what you feel like, like, adjustment want to see you if you’re good, you know, for hire you. But um, What’s your feeling about as a disrespectful?

Unknown Speaker 18:43
Know, in this profession? You know, in spa world, it’s part of the hiring process, not necessarily the first stage interview? Or, you know, for the chiropractors, the different ones that I’ve worked for. I offered to work on them, because I don’t want the middleman stealing. If they don’t trust my hands, then how are they gonna trust their patients with mine? The thing that I’ve seen on a couple different groups is, you know, if I give an hour massage, and I don’t get the job, should I send them an invoice for my time? Hey, which is it’s a fair question.

Unknown Speaker 19:20
Yeah, that’s a long time an hour to that seems like it’s taken advantage of the situation to me 10 minutes, somebody you should be able to know.

Unknown Speaker 19:26
Yeah, I mean, you should be able to know, you know, my dad, by the time finish in their hand. Okay, there we go. You know, but that’s, that’s kind of the thing is, if you depending on what you’re using the therapist for, go that route, 1015 minutes, work on whatever issues you might have, you know, the chiropractor, and you have neck issues, or the shoulder issues or elbow,

Unknown Speaker 19:51
you know, we got upper extremity problems.

Unknown Speaker 19:55
You know, your manual therapy,

Unknown Speaker 19:58
my forum store,

Unknown Speaker 20:00
what’s your problem area and go, let me see what you can do. And, you know, I would say give them at least a half an hour, okay? Because you have to finish rapport, and you know, integrate that touch. But if it’s, if you’re looking for that quick return, then you might need somebody who’s got a little bit more orthopedic training. So that because if you want a 15 minute treatment class not. That’s true. Yeah. So that that’s going to inhibit what capable, it’s not going to necessarily reduce our potency. It’s just therapist and has to adapt their skill set, they have to take their standard benches, and slide back and pull off. And both their metrics said, you know,

Unknown Speaker 20:41
Michael, right, Doc, just difference in your classes, do you use any kind of tools of any sort to save your hands and body is that part of the curriculum for your, for your students,

Unknown Speaker 20:54
the most important tool that I use is my brain, boom. Because if the therapist is attention to what they’re doing with their body mechanics, it’s all him. So every tool that I’ve ever used is just an extension of how I understand how to use it. There is one whole day if latched onto about, almost 10 years ago, and it’s called a sacred wedgie. Okay? It’s an amazing self care tool. It’s not unlike the SOT mocking only the client lays facts up and grab it, as opposed to the work

Unknown Speaker 21:29
that was still it goes over your, you’re laying on top of the sacred, so it sort of puts it into that anterior tilt. So like flattens the low back for a while.

Unknown Speaker 21:36
Yep. And then you put a neck roll in the neck, and just get nice little typical generalist,

Unknown Speaker 21:42
oh, that would be comfortable.

Unknown Speaker 21:43
Pound for pound is easiest way to release this though, as as a massage therapist will have a big buffet table. You know, it’s a, it’s there’s one of my nightstand, I have one in every suitcase.

Unknown Speaker 21:54
And if you’re doing this on a regular basis there, I gotta lay up face up. Anyway, lovely on that YU work on the rest of them.

Unknown Speaker 22:01
Right now I’m in two places at one time. Yeah. Yeah. The sticker, which is the one of the main tools, but outside of that is it’s really just having a solid bounce filter, knowing what you know, recognizing that you don’t know what you don’t know, recognizing that there’s always gonna be more of this don’t know than you do now. And allowing your patients clients to be your educator, so that you can use to influence your life. Because every client is going to present differently each time. So if robotic with our treatment will no different than then taking a car wash at the gas station versus the car back. And that’s the experience.

Unknown Speaker 22:37
This has been good so far, in my opinion, kind of getting a good overview of the things that you’re offering and what we should be looking out for. For my audience, that thing, this has been really good. Like you said, you have your own school, you’re having to get people to take your classes, you travel, what is like one maybe two marketing tactics that either you use to get students or that you’ve noticed works well to build your own massage client tell you got you take tackle that either way you like

Unknown Speaker 23:05
part of the class, but there will class teaching others the body work, posttraumatic stress disorder, or the integrated critical therapy classes, both in that is a couple of key things that I talked about at the beginning of every class, mainly in the concept of ROI, you know, isn’t the student coming to the class? What ROI? How much? How much time? Is it going to take you using the to learn some of your data? And if you know, for yourself, even for contractors, you guys have to do continuing education. We all sat in classes and gotten our hours and walk out of the classroom. Let’s just do. Right? quit doing those. Yeah. And without without the bad ones. We don’t appreciate good ones.

Unknown Speaker 23:46
Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker 23:48
So you know, I go into the classes and help therapist with these wiki put over a little bit. And this is what I’m going to get your ROI. Because I want you to use these tools and these techniques to be successful so that you can move your money for so they can begin thinking about what it’s going to take to get that next random clientele. how busy Do you really want to be?

Unknown Speaker 24:08
You only got so many hours? I think your body can handle massage and all week,

Unknown Speaker 24:11
right? And on the other side of the question, What do I do to reach out to prospective students and try and convert them to in class food is authentic, you know, the potency of the classes that I teach is it’s rooted in the basics, you know, we go back to understanding what homeostasis means for body. And we talked about the different pieces of the body as it lets us know whether we are we’re not becoming a state, just as an example. So the massage therapist, whether they’re brand new, or they’ve been in practice for 20 years can come into the class and feel comfortable digesting the information. And sometimes it’s information you’ve already heard, but to hear it a second time. So they learned deeper when I was just at the chiropractic show, talking about it’s about have that authentic conversation with eco on the side of what we really owe, and how can we really push our work forward? So what marketing pieces that I should ask the students? Where do you want to go? What do you want to do you know how hard you want to work, you know, growing up in the Midwest, I was raised, you have to work smarter, not harder. So if I, if I can find ways to get therapist to understand that, that they don’t need to always offer treatment for the clock hour, right, you’re charging by value, not by the app,

Unknown Speaker 25:28
oh, y’all can do that as well.

Unknown Speaker 25:30
If we’re going to change names, things have to be changed, what’s a tough one. So as a professional it is. But if you’re in a performance based, then if it takes us 25 minutes to get you there, or it takes me 15 minutes to get you there, I have that same amount of time blocked out, then you can do the performance based and charge the premium. That’s true.

Unknown Speaker 25:49
That’s what’s great about it when you know you can charge I don’t know, maybe even double the going rate because of the results that you’re going to get from it. Right. I don’t have to go as often either. Usually,

Unknown Speaker 25:59
that’s that’s one with my clients. Look, when we have our first conversation, it’s my goal is to get you to want to see me not the need to see. Because you need to see me it means we’re not there yet,

Unknown Speaker 26:09
which is normally how these covers these relationships we build start sure they need but now we gotta get into once

Unknown Speaker 26:15
we get to want and then that’s when the word of mouth referral network starts is they run into somebody like, Hey, how you been? I’ve been doing amazing. headaches are gone, my shoulder pains gone back gone. Well, what’s going on? I’m seeing this guy, it’s, you know, three or four months of just consistent treatment. But now, you know, I see him twice a year.

Unknown Speaker 26:32
It’s amazing. Working ourselves out of a job.

Unknown Speaker 26:36
Well, it’s job security, because there’s plenty of trauma out there for us to deal with.

Unknown Speaker 26:41
Oh, this PTSD, I’m curious on that one. Give us a little, a little sample of what kind of experiences they’re having, or that they’re getting from you to help with that condition.

Unknown Speaker 26:51
Okay, are you talking in terms of the client, but,

Unknown Speaker 26:54
um, I guess the clients because that would encourage the I think the students to take the classes that the clients and get the best was

Unknown Speaker 27:00
sure the class was originally written for massage therapists. But as I said earlier, I’m opening up to cross disciplines, pts, OT, yoga therapist, if anybody was a licensed touch, because the message needs to be bigger. So you start there, he foundation of the class came from the client experience, seeing clients even all the way back in 2000, my first became a massage therapist and working at the chiropractor’s office and seeing MBAs You know, one after another after another after another every day seeing these people come in, who are TiVo, or rover or slip and fall at work or, you know, whatever. And seeing my manual techniques getting me so far, that then tweaked it to give a little bit more credence to was their body pulling me, right. Instead of me telling their body, I need you to do this. I took a step back and what does your body need get towards trying to go? Even 20 years ago, I was already performance minded. I just didn’t happen sort. Yeah, exactly. So from those from those sessions and underwent the spaz commandos, resource boss, I’m seeing people from all over the world with all kinds of stuff. And I’m getting 15 minutes to see what I can. And what I noticed over a couple years is people started coming back to Orlando for home. And I was like, Huh, okay, so obviously, this is working the 15 minutes we had in March of 2003, they go back in March of 2005, and circle back and like, Hey, I made a special landed a call to you, because I live in Seattle. So I would ask them so, so why, you know, not only don’t need you to stroke, my ego, not trying to get to the the essence of what did what changed what happened. So all of that is the seasoning. But what clients get out of the PTSD work is first and foremost is they get the ability to be in their body, again, in a safe place, sometimes for the first time, the introduction of healthy, safe, non sexualized, but in a lot of times for the first time, or time in a long time. And then you know, once they begin spending time in their body, and they begin understanding what Healthy Touch can do, then we can start working with our nervous system to start recognizing that they don’t have to be in that sympathetic response. All the time, we can introduce them to this is what the parasympathetic side feels, this is what the parasympathetic side can be like, and then they grow into this is what the parasympathetic side is like. And then we enhance the resiliency, so that they can take a proactive role in the recovery process, right? Because there’s no cure. There’s lots I’ve read plenty of studies and all kinds of things from all kinds of professions from psychiatrist psychologist, people say they cure and PTSD. The next time it happened,

Unknown Speaker 29:50
like a management,

Unknown Speaker 29:51
yeah, it’s, you know, the way that the classes are here to try and help take the drama out of the trauma, so that they just have a memory, right, this isn’t meant to black, we can just go poof, the memory problem is gone. That would be amazing. But that’s just not really limit yet. So if we can take the amount of Exeter living around that trauma, and restore back to the nervous system, that’s a mechanism inside the body will kick in, and it’d be an optimal status. And it gives them that reasonably sympathetic and parasympathetic thoughts. And they actually begin the recovery process. One of the big things that I try and focus on is making sure identity trauma informed practice. And I don’t know if if you’re familiar with that term, but the main takeaway from trauma informed versus other types of therapies is I don’t believe that the client has to go back through the trauma or relive the trauma or to heal from it.

Unknown Speaker 30:44
Okay, that seems like a different view than I’ve heard most of the time.

Unknown Speaker 30:48
Yeah, it’s, that’s when I cut my teeth in learning about PTSD, a lot of it was pointed at, we have to go back to the source, you have to go back to the event. And lesson have to realize that was a lot of people want to do that. But they’d like to just draw a line in this folder. So if we give them a chance, they can draw a line in the sand to move forward, it doesn’t mean we’re not going to circle back, it doesn’t mean they’re not going to go back to that time of the Trump, when they come back to that promise. They don’t have that visceral, neurological response of Oh, my gosh, the traumas happening again, they can approach it from I survived, right? And then come back. And do you not only did I survive, but I’m thriving, right? help them understand the difference between the lower the your mentality, you know, the victim mentality and walked in towards you on the other side. And as massage therapist, I’m very mindful of our scope of practice Tonight, we’re not mental health counselors and social workers, unless they are lucky to do that as well.

Unknown Speaker 31:50
Right? This is just your background, the way you’re kind of approaching it. Yeah. Why you approach it the way you do?

Unknown Speaker 31:54
Yeah, so we have to keep it, you know, body centered. So you know, we don’t get into the the emotional side of things do emotions come up. But our job is the bottom worker is to get lighthouse in the storm. So that they have a point of reference that if they’re going through all this ocean, all of this tissue change all this releasing, they know we’re grounded, it’s okay. Because after the session to open her eyes and look at you, and they’re going to look at you with different eyes, it’s our responsibility to give them the same eyes back. Right, one of the biggest challenges with clients is their network of friends and family. You know, I’ve had dozens of patients come in, and we’ve walked them through this process, it is sometimes a couple of weeks, bam, good, they’re on a debt off the land ready to go. Patients, it’s, you know, we’re five, six years into this, because the damage was that significant, right? It’s not, it’s not about how fast we can get to this point, is, let’s just keep the momentum and get you going back to as as they make these changes, and they feel these changes, and they can move more what it’s like to be in their body without all of this, all of this drag they sign. And their friends and family only seeing them, the person they were before the trauma, or the person they were before they started doing the recovery process. So they kind of have to then educate their circle and go, look, I’m not that person, like I’ve turned the page moving forward, I’d like you to see me as I am right now. Not to me, I was last week, six years ago, 12 years.

Unknown Speaker 33:29
You know, it reminds me of two things. One thing they say when you’re arguing with your spouse, try not to bring it up to your parents very much don’t use them as a sounding board. because later on when things are good. They don’t know about the good. They just remembered all the bad things you said about your spouse. So that could be bad. And then other you mentioned, I was talking with somebody one time, I don’t know if it’s became a peer reviewed study or just temporary findings. But there was like a tsunami that went through probably like eight years ago someplace and mass, you know, a lot of casualties. And people would just go and try volunteer and kind of help rebuild, or just people that were hurt. And one of the things I think they did was they hadn’t talked about it immediately, like, what are you doing what you’re processing, trying to avoid, you know, some PTSD stuff. And what they found was, some of these people actually was because they were talking about it so quick. It really it didn’t give them time to like self cope, and kind of figure it out on their own. Like it creates solidified it for them, versus just letting them get on their own. And then they wouldn’t have actually had it. And I don’t know how they categorize that and figure that out. But it was an interesting, you know, like you were saying, should you talk about it? Should you not? When is the appropriate time and how much? You know, that’s a lot of stuff that like, you know, you and I were just not qualified in that sense to go deep into that rabbit hole. But it’s fun to see that there’s conflicting research out there. And people are challenging what they used to do to try to find what’s best, and everybody’s different, but at least have a guideline, this is what we’re gonna try first for these types of people.

Unknown Speaker 34:52
Yeah, that’s a bad idea of tidal waves kind. Right? That’s why a lot of that’s a lot of students. Well, this is like one trauma was coming. I can see it coming like a tsunami. So it’s interesting that you brought up that study, I will have to keep an eye out for that one.

Unknown Speaker 35:07
Yeah. That’s the bad thing about Justin, sometimes you’ll read things and be like, yep, I don’t remember authors and all that kind of stuff like some people do in school, you’re just like, dude, how do you know all of this stuff? And remember it? I mean, maybe they’d be good at sports as well, you know, fantasy draft, and site and all that. But I’m like, Man, you better have a print out. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 35:29
So let’s switch

Unknown Speaker 35:30
gears, we’re going to wrap this thing up here soon. If you’re a longtime listener, if you’re new listener, you know that as doctors as professionals, and just people in general, is such a high divorce rate. And that’s not so good. So one of the things is not taking a vacation. Other times, it’s just spouse issues that we have. So question for you is vacation, how could we possibly take more of that, because a lot of us are entrepreneurs, and we just don’t, you know, you don’t work you don’t get paid? And what can you do to try to keep the love alive and your significant relationships so that you just stay happy?

Unknown Speaker 36:02
Well, there’s a couple of different ways with the way that I’ve set I think up my goals, the Endless Summer, so that, wherever I want to go, I will go and I will set up teach a class or workshop or do some consultations in that city, or for a couple of days, and

Unknown Speaker 36:19
you come San Diego.

Unknown Speaker 36:22
You know, but as far as my fast My wife is a massage therapist as well, we actually met in

Unknown Speaker 36:28
a hopeless romantic story, but talk about

Unknown Speaker 36:32
right. So we kind of walked into this profession together. And she’s actually a full time therapist for hospice specializing in pediatrics. So she carries a pretty heavy load, you know, we’re really kind of having a brilliant conversations at what makes us work is a couple of things. One is, you know, never post below the belt. That’s rule number one for every relationship. But what really works for us is, my dad told me No, you’re right. No, you’re wrong. No one doesn’t matter.

Unknown Speaker 37:05
That’s a hard one to that last part.

Unknown Speaker 37:08
That was the stare. But, you know, I’m, I’m not a quitter. You know, so, when, when my wife and I found each other, you know, we decided at that time that this was for the long haul, you know, it’s about growing old together, it’s about having fun together. It’s about growing together. We’ve had friends who have the turbulence and the bumps and you know, have chosen to go different ways. You know, I don’t know how to put all of it together. But you know, if you keep goals clear,

Unknown Speaker 37:35
communication open, I think that’s probably the best way to do it. Do revisit those

Unknown Speaker 37:40
on a regular basis throughout the year. We are due for.

Unknown Speaker 37:46
Right, will say quarterly.

Unknown Speaker 37:49
Yeah. You know, at least be we got married very young, very young. So they’re really looking official hundreds what we do every year, around our anniversary. You know, if life is dramatic, we live in Orlando, so we can do a vacation and go to a theme park or the beach or whatever, pretty easy. We do it at least annually around our anniversary just to kind of go and reconnect and focus on being a couple, you know, her and me and parents and business owners employee just to kind of fill it all out. It’s a lot of heads. Yeah, but let’s just let’s be us to have fun. You know, make sure we’re still on the same page. And if we’re not figure out

Unknown Speaker 38:30
great answer. Kinda one of the last ones we like to follow up with is you have any books that you really recommend or secretly enjoy that wish to check out. And any fun phone apps.

Unknown Speaker 38:44
The onion is also good. Oh, man.

Unknown Speaker 38:48
I gotta be careful. My Twitter feed. I see some crazy headline like, oh, is the onion. Okay, okay.

Unknown Speaker 38:54
Exactly. Exactly. Like, is that really true? Okay, no, it’s fake. True. Yeah. Cool. there’s a there’s a handful of books that that have had pretty good impact on me personally, the one that over the years ago was the Biology of Belief, Bruce Lipton. He’s a cellular biologist who took his Stanford education and went into the concept of epigenetics.

Unknown Speaker 39:17

Unknown Speaker 39:18
so that’s been kind of a wormhole for me, go deep into that, that ties into the PTSD work and everything that I do as well. And that one’s kind of a it’s a different take. It’s called the mission, the men me and the name. It’s his name’s keat Blaber ABR. And it’s a book, her special forces commando with all the military stuff inside of it, but some really strong solid life skills. Just as far as like, you know, one of the things that he says in there is don’t get treat I have to Wallah, you know, which is phenomenal. It’s a little story about when they were getting qualified, drop off the recent high and hit these took up running because in his mind sleep deprived, deprived, he thought it was like this grizzly bear coming to eat. Oh, man. Yeah. And it turns out, it was like this little creature, you know. So making sure that you don’t over respond to a non threatening stimuli. Kind of a deal.

Unknown Speaker 40:19
Okay. Make sense? Yeah. And that’s a good one. And a

Unknown Speaker 40:24
pretty fun one that I like to share with clients. It’s really, you know, for for yourself and other chiropractors and pts. It might be a good office book is my many colored days. But Dr. Seuss, okay. Just kind of goes in through how we all have their college days. And look, it gives us to have those particular days, so that we can recognize the people around us might be having a different colored day that we’re having.

Unknown Speaker 40:50
interesting how sometimes you just have to have permission. The random is personally, you know, you’re allowed to feel that you’re, oh, I am. Yeah, you can feel that way. This happened to you. It’d be more natural to feel that way. That not, that doesn’t mean you can stay that way forever. But you can experience that for a while and explore it. Healthy sometimes.

Unknown Speaker 41:09
Yeah, it’s, you know, I, I think emotional intelligence is understanding the power of each emotion and the value of it. You know, it’s okay to be sad. No, it’s okay. It’d be happy. okay to be Andrew, you know, back in the day, if we can get some gifts. Right. So IWMN?

Unknown Speaker 41:26
This is a, these are kind of answers. I’d like to hear books that I like to see just, you know, it varies. Now everybody has a different viewpoint of like the ones these haven’t really been said before. So that’s really awesome. How, how can people get in touch with you, website, give us all the scoop?

Unknown Speaker 41:41
Yeah, sure. You can follow me on all the social media platforms under touch educated, you can hit me up on my personal page, Matthew, how you can visit, touch education. com If you’re interested in either attending one of my seminars yourself. Or if you would like to send the massage therapist or the PDA, or anybody listening or clinic, if you think you’d be interested in helping more people across the broader spectrum of PTSD is the website, touch education. com, go to upcoming events and register right there. I do speaking engagements for corporations for conferences for professional associations, this message of PTSD is broad enough that there’s enough for everybody to help. Sometimes we just need that branch to have that communication. And I’m going to be that first to help you reach new patients in the class.

Unknown Speaker 42:31
Matthew, I really appreciate you being on the show and giving us some things to think about what to look for, for quality evidence in form, massage therapist and the fact that it’s opened up for other people, if they’re tweaking their interest, like I wonder what I can actually learn, go check out his website, take a seminar, and come back Monday morning and regenerated and ready to go. There you go. Another great interview has ended. While you’re on your phone, click that review. But right up nice review for me five stars if you could, as everyone says an industry it’ll help other people to find us when we have enough rankings. Not to mention, I’ll mention you and your review on an upcoming episode. If you follow me at all on Instagram, you know, you only get one link. So I use a link tree. And so it’s a doctor’s perspective, net slash links with an S and that’s going to give you everything you need to know the top episodes are 2017 and 2018, the podiatry series dentist acupuncture series holiday 2017 financial series, how to write a review how to support the show like buying a cup of coffee, getting swag, like t shirts, the today’s choices, tomorrow’s health book, that’s the blueprints for better health, exercise, picking food correctly and financial. And then of course, bundle packs which can get you the needle acupuncture book 40 common conditions, including the electric acupuncture pin, had a great deal. The resources page has some of the products that I like it’s a affiliate style. So if you buy something from them, I get a piece of that, just like on the show notes pages. If you buy a book from clicking that link, I get a small piece of that as well. So I really appreciate that. Things like screen cast automatic peer VPN, missing letter J lab speakers, pro lone edge or hot grips. Once again, if you do need any coaching on how to improve your blood work, drop weight and the pro loan diet fast mimicking diet five day plan, let me know as well as if you just need some coaching, whether it’s health, whether it’s marketing, whether you need some practice growth, etc. Reach out Facebook, Justin Trosclair MCC, of course, at a doctor’s perspective. NET on the top right, you got all the social media icons that you can imagine, click your favorite and reach out. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please tell a friend pass it along. You can go to.net slash Listen, it’s just that easy. It’ll open up right in your app. And don’t forget, I appreciate you. Listen, critically think integrate see on the Minnesota on Thursdays and Saturdays. Hope you’re enjoying those. I’m definitely having fun summarizing these podcasts and less than 10 minutes for you. You get the nuggets without having to waste your time every week.

Unknown Speaker 45:18
We just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen and integrate with some of these guests have said by all means please share across your social media rather review. And if you go to the show notes page, you can find all the references for today’s guests. You’ve been listening to Dr. Justin Trosclair giving you a doctor’s perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

About the Author
Dr. Justin Trosclair, D.C., an expert in Chiropractic Care, has been focusing on back and neck pain relief for over 12 years and has delivered treatment to more than 6000 patients. With advanced training in treating disc derangement conditions, you can count on him to keep up to date with the latest research in physical medicine for spinal pain. He has 5 years of hospital experience in China, is currently working in Germany, and had a private practice in Colorado for 6 years. Dr. Trosclair hosts a doctor to doctor interview podcast called ‘A Doctor’s Perspective‘ with over 220 episodes. During his free time he wrote 3 books. Today’s Choices Tomorrow’s Health (rebooting health in 4 categories), a Do-It- Yourself acupressure book for 40 common conditions called Needle-less Acupuncture, and a step by step guide to look like a local for Chinese dinner culture called Chinese Business Dinner Culture. If you have kids, you may be interested in his 6 series tri-lingual animal coloring book series (english, spanish and chinese).