E 128 Student Loan Repayment Options Travis Hornsby CFA

a doctors perspective e 128 travis hornsby student loans 1
Travis Hornsby CFA talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor's Perspective Podcast.

Doctors have multi 6 figure student loan debt. Don’t feel trapped any longer. Travis Hornsby CFA has done 1000s of reviews to put you in the correct student loan repayment or forgiveness plans. He gives so much valuable advice on this episode.

Refinance and varying plans of student loan forgiveness or just a few options that you have to pay off your 6 figure student loan. Travis Hornsby, CFA discusses the ins and outs of each repayment options and is available for consults about your specific needs.

CFA is a mile deep but an inch wide and a CFP is an inch deep but a mile wide. He goes over the difference.

The FFEL program … the reason some people have less than 3% interest rate back before 2010 and he tells the backstory of what changed to increase the rate to above 6% and how the interest rate was tied to what the government was yielding.

Are the “doctor” schools honest about income potentials when recruiting?

Also, schools were able to charge a lot more for tuition as well as roll in the cost of living? Who did that benefit and what should you be aware of?

If you have 250K student loan and you only are making 60-80k per year, how are you supposed to cover that 2500 a month note for 30 years.

If you owe less than 1.5 x your debt then maybe refinance. If you owe more than 1.5x your debt then consider the loan forgiveness programs. (as a general rule seek professional advice before doing anything)

                Student Loan Forgiveness Programs  (listen to the episode for all the details)

Pay as You Earn:

Revised Pay as You Earn:

Income Based Repayment

What happens if your spouse earns money? How do you handle a dual income family when looking at these loan forgiveness programs?

                Tax Consequences

A key piece to remember is that the student loan forgiveness programs do require you to pay a HUGE chunk of TAXES after the 15-20 year term. Only one program can end in no tax. 

So big in fact, that each month you need to save for it otherwise you will be shocked that final year.

Travis gives us a few examples about what to expect and how to plan for the end of term taxes on the amount forgiven of your student loans. Including a 20  year trick to make money work for you long term.

AGI adjusted gross income- is how they base your 10% student loan payment each month. A Perk for working Overseas (EXPAT) is that you can make up to $100,000 but none of it counts toward the API.

Hornsby even has a tactics for those high end earners to still utilize student loan forgiveness programs via 401k’s, hiring family and more

What is the breadwinner loophole (communal property) that applies to 9 states?

How will I know if I can be financially secure one day… if I have a lot of student loan debt?

The short answer, have a higher savings rate than everybody else… listen for the details of how and why.

(1/3rd goes to student loan, investment, and retirement : 10% loan, 5% tax boom, 18% retirement)

Number 1 and 2 reasons you aren’t saving enough.
https://www.studentloanplanner.com

Places where chiropractor and other doctors can refinance their student loans
If you want to get a copy of our income driven repayment calculator
Reach out to us at help@studentloanplanner.com or just check out our consult service

Travis Hornsby, CFA
Founder, Student Loan Planner

Show notes can be found at https://adoctorsperspective.net/128 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.

a doctors perspective e 128 travis hornsby student loans fb
Full Transcript of the Interview (probably has some grammatical errors). Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:06
Episode 128 student loan repayment options. I'm your host, Dr. Justin trosclair. And today, we're Travis Hornby's perspective.

2017 and 2018 podcast Awards Nominated host as we get behind the curtain look at all types of doctors and guests specialties. Let's hear a doctor's perspective.

How's your summer going? meeting your goals, get any family vacations coming up. That's a good goal to have. It is summer by the way. And I'm not talking just taking July 4 off. But if that's all you can do, maybe take off an extra day or two a four day week instead of just the three. I know here in China, we try not to take off on work the holiday day because traffic gets out of control, all the prices jump up and now we can just get an extra day off per month or however many days it was so it's kind of nice. Roll that over to the next month. If you forget

We got an app on Android devices, a doctor's perspective. NET slash app, our free app, either one will take the free version of the needless acupuncture book. The other one is the full length for only a few bucks might want to try that if the full version is too much, the website has been revamped.net slash bundle packs if you want to check that out. That's always fun for me to try some different landing pages and marketing kind of test right? Lastly, if you could leave a review those really do help with social proof staying in the rankings. It's funny joined a podcast tracking and sometimes I'm I'm high in China or Ireland or Saudi Arabia, some random places sometimes I'm like a broke the top 50 broke the top hundred. That's interesting. So you just never know how far reaching your podcast might go. Or at least you know, certain episodes of that month that come out. Sounds good to me. And lastly, bring some feedback. The Minnesota any podcast or podcast episode specifically you think oh my goodness, I heard it. It blew me away. It was really good Justin

you should listen to it and make a summary so that everybody else can hit the main points is that good love that send me an email or social media either way. Well, today's episode hailing from St. Louis, we got Travis Hornsby CFA, this is going to kick off our financial mini series, it's a three week thing, first will be him talking about paying off your student loans, debt forgiveness, then we're going to have a CFP giving us the 411 on foreign keys and other retirement plans. So that'll give you a good overview of what's out there what you can do. And then the last should be a become your own banker, infinite banking system to grow your wealth, to kind of a unique thing. Those are two books, just the titles that I just said, to get more information. And of course, our guests will be talking all about it. And I'm excited to share that with y'all. And at this point, I'm hoping to lock in like a commercial real estate agent who can discuss more about how to what are you looking for, if you looking to diversify into that realm of money making diversification? Travis with student loan planner.com and we are going to go through some plans that I didn't know about wish I would have known about years ago, especially if you have 200,000 or more student loan debt, but you only make 70,000 a year, you know, what are you going to do? We talked about the pays you earn revise pays, you earn income based repayments tax consequences, when you finally do meet the end of the 15 or 20 year plan, how to minimize your income in different varieties of ways. So that way, if you're on a forgiveness program, you end up paying less. And one of the questions he wishes more people would ask how do I know if I can be financially secure one day if I have a lot of student loan debt. So we'll go through several different scenarios and ways you can do that. So and perks for working overseas is actually more perks for being an expert than you realize. So really, really excited. He's got some if you check the show notes, he's an income generating payment calculator that you can use, the prices are transparent, a lot, a lot of wealth of information, especially if you're probably like sub five years graduated, are going into the profession. So and it's not just for chiropractors, Dennis podiatry, he's got like a little section for for all of us individually, they've done over 3000, consultations and things. So a doctor's perspective, net slash 128. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.

Live from China in St. Louis. Today in the program, we're going to talk about student loan. And we have a guy who one of the he was working on Wall Street trading bonds, and I think you've worked with Vanguard, and it's like $10 million $10 billion worth of trading. So this guy had that is a past history. And he transitioned into learning about student loans and how much debt these doctors have. And he's like, Man, this is not right. Like there's so many programs out there that aren't using and so he developed a program called student loan planner calm. So we're really welcome and really happy to have him on Travis Hornsby. Thanks, Justin. Excited to be on. Absolutely. Well, you know, one thing I noticed when you're a gator fan, a gator alumni I should say, which is great. But what else you and I say great and I still don't care because you know what? I always like the Gators growing up, but it's always a rivalry when those teams meet every year. I'm a

confused and who I should root for. Its for me.

Unknown Speaker 5:02
Yeah, Alice, you Elisha gators, right? Well, you know, you don't know who's gonna show up. You know, the whole town will show up. And it's just wild. Yeah. You ever been to tailgate?

Unknown Speaker 5:10
Oh, yeah. Yeah, what's the school there? So you get to experience some of that. It's fun. And I mean, they just beat us for the SEC basketball championship. I was like, Oh, you gotta be kidding me. The worst seed be the number one seed in the division. Like, I know, I know.

Unknown Speaker 5:23
Trust me, I was just as surprised as you are.

Justin Trosclair 5:26
That's what just happened.

Alright, that's fun. You know, we always got to start with the backstory, you know, it's a weird thing to specialize in. Maybe it's not weird, but there's just not a lot of people, I think that are doing what you're doing. So give us the short version of like, what's going on? And then of course, we'll follow up with a whole bunch of pointed questions to try to get the audience stimulated. Like, oh, my goodness, there are options out there.

Unknown Speaker 5:46
Yeah, I mean, I've always just been really interested in, you know, higher education, just from when I was in college, just like, I did read a lot of reports, bed cost of school and things like that. And I kind of, you know, filed that away, went into finance, like, focused on learning about, had a program Excel spreadsheets to trade bonds, and things like that. And so then I kind of met my wife who had a lot of debt from from med school. And I thought, wow, this is like, a lot more complicated than I thought it was, you know, because you got all these different plans, you can refinance, you know, you can go for forgiveness, you know, and it was so complicated. I thought, this is really, you know, a lot more interesting than just like, making, you know, rich people richer, right? Not to say that, that's not to say that, you know, like, all the people that we worked with, for rich Sterling, that's not the case. But I mean, it was, it was just what I was not personally passionate about. And so I found this space where, like shoes, telling me, you know, like, I should talk to all of our friends. And we talked to some of our friends that are like, this is so needed, and you kind of know, you found something that's a great business, when your friends are really eager to pay for it. Right? Like, you don't feel guilty being like, hey, like, I started this new business, like, will you buy one of my like, you know, I don't know, will you buy? What am I sets of baseball cards are like this, you know, like, knife cuts set that I have you, you know, you felt really awkward about it. Right? When I, you know, when I tell people what I was doing, they were like, I don't care? The price is yes. And so I was like, oh, wow, like this is something that's really needed, you know. And so I started focusing on it. And then the need grew and grew over time as we produce more content for more professions. And so now, you know, we've have about 2000 clients, about $500 million of debt, we've advised,

Justin Trosclair 7:24
wow, it makes sense, because the amount that it is his house, sometimes a really big house, and you can make said, yeah, it's going to stop you from potentially buying a house that you want a car that you want retiring at a right age, depending on how you structure this. So your background is a CFA that's sort of like the MBA of financial people. Right?

Unknown Speaker 7:43
Yeah, they're like Chartered Financial Analyst is designation, it's more for people that are in professional investing. So you know, like pension fund managers, mutual fund managers, people like that, right? And then your CFP is going to be somebody who's more like a financial planner for, you know, kind of middle and middle class America, right. So, you know, you know, set up trusts and things like, well, it's something like that. So there'll be an expert on like insurance and estate planning and budgeting and things like that. Whereas this like, so CFP is kind of like, a mile wide and an inch deep. And then the CFA is kind of like a mile deep and an inch wide. So you know, just on that investing portion, so so a Chartered Financial Analyst is really somebody that's more, you know, focused on investments. The reason why I like it kind of tied in with student loan debt is because I just find there's a lot of similarities. Because, you know, it's very complicated, right? Like, you have to analyze a bunch of rules. And you have to, you know, so that's kind of like reading balance sheets. And you know, you have to figure out what kind of options are available. And, you know, you have to figure out like the the present value of cash flows, and there's all these like, really interesting technical things. So it was just, it was fascinating for me personally. So that was, was part of being in the right place at the right time, and finding something that was just really deep that a lot of people were having a lot of paint over. So

Justin Trosclair 8:55
let's go with this. We got somebody who has 300,000, or what I think is about 250 thousand, I think when I was school about 1112 years ago, 150 to 175 was normal. Now, I think it's around the 250 range for at least chiropractors. And my student loan interest was only 2.5. Don't even 25. But now enough of friends like 6.4, and that's a lot. That's a high rate at 300,000. And grief, you almost never touched the principal at this point. Are there any benefits to paying that off as fast as you can? Like, if you have a job, where you make 500,000? a year? You know, in a couple of years, you can you could pay that off? Is that a model? You know, if you that's a good route to go versus like a repayment plan, or for the loan forgiveness?

Unknown Speaker 9:40
Yeah, sure. So you're you're lucky you're referencing is because of the program, the NFL program that existed before 2010. And specifically, it was that program set up with specific rules. So you know, they had a while there in the mid 2000s, this regime that had people getting interest rates, and like two or 3%. And so rather than put that on to an income based program, what people would do is they would just consolidate it and put it on a 30 year repayment plan, right? Yeah. So you're $150,000 you pay like seven $800 a month, eventually, you're going to pay it off. But like, it's such a cheap interest rate, that inflation is really going to be that, you know, you know, you don't really have to worry about it, it's almost like as long as you can make that payment, it's almost kind of like free money, you can just kind of let it float and just get rid of it over time. Right. So it was you know, it's always been a little painful for chiropractors, because the default rate for chiropractors is, as you know, a little bit higher than average compared to some some professions, because of debt to income ratios. And so, you know, so that was kind of like the pre kind of, like, direct loan phase. So like after, like mid 2000s, they started something new, where they tied the interest rate to what the government was yielding. So in other words, instead of getting super low interest rate, you know, they decided to say, Okay, let's just add on, on top of whatever the government's borrowing it, we're going to add on like three to three and a half to four and a half percent, approximately,

Unknown Speaker 10:56
who makes these rules? So

Unknown Speaker 10:58
let me nice Congress, they just made it up. So you know, so so like, for example, the government's borrowing three, then, you know, for Stafford loans, it's gonna be like, six 6.6. And then for grad plus at 7.6. Wow. So that's kind of how they back into that. Right. And the what's kind of interesting with that is, is that means that when you're in school that accrued interest grows a lot more, right? Yeah. So you took your tier 3% interest, you probably left school with something similar to what you started with, right? Yeah. So now people will add on about 25 to 30%, more than what they borrowed by the time they leave school. Wow. Right. So that's part of the problem. So the prices have gone way up for for school. And then on top of that, you know, your crew a lot more like finance charges while you're in school, because the tuition is higher now to

Justin Trosclair 11:41
it seems like they ballooned in

Unknown Speaker 11:43
towards what is and so what's what's kind of happened to is, is, I think a lot of the especially some of the chiropractic schools are and you know, acupuncture schools, and even a lot of veterinary schools and places like that. Even dental schools, they're not really honest with you about your income potential. So for exam, some people do make a lot of money, right. So, you know, the the top, you know, two or three grads in your class, probably will make six figures and probably will have a super successful career and make a lot of money. Right. But you're but it's, it's really what you have to talk about is like, Well, what does the average person make? You know, and and that's one thing that I think that should be, like, required to be disclosed, because right now, they don't do it. They just kind of like, say, some sort of anecdotal thing. And the anecdotal thing is really not backed by data. It's just like, what some person in the financial aid office just like made up that day,

Justin Trosclair 12:27
or like, the averages of everyone all together, and you're like, well, you're, you're doing the 40,000 person and the one that has 1.6 million. Yeah, that's a

Unknown Speaker 12:34
Yeah, that's not fair. Exactly. Yeah. So So I see that a lot. It's like a probably one of the most common comments I have from chiropractic doctors I talked to is like, yeah, my school said that we were all going to make six figures. So we were going to have this like super easy life and work three or four days a week. And instead, you know, I'm working like four or five days a week, and I'm only making like, 40 to 60 somebody so it's in, you know, and so that's like reality check. So part of it is just kinda like reality check. Okay, like, you know, as a chiropractic doctor, like, there are things you can do to make a lot more money. Yes. But you know, your typical person's gonna make anywhere from 40 to 80. k and their career. Yeah, and that's just going to grow with inflation. And so if that's, if that's you, if you if you feel like you're probably not going to be that person is going to make, you know, 200 300 k or something, which is unusual. And, you know, at least it's in a lot of cases for recent grads, then that means that, you know, 250 k debt, how are you going to pay that back with 80? k of income? Yeah, right. That's even if you're doing pretty good. So like, because you have to pay 2500 a month, okay, that's like, a third or 40% of your take on pay. Right? You know, you want a house, you want kids you want to retire. So, you know, if so, you know, that's that you can do that. And so part of it is just kind of educating people on what's possible, like a lot of people think that it's possible, but they emotionally just can't handle it for for a decade. You know, I had a couple cases where some chiropractors who are big fans of Dave Ramsey, and they're like, Yeah, I don't care that I, you know, have these forgiveness options. Like, I just want to get rid of this debt, because I borrowed it, I want to pay it off.

Justin Trosclair 13:55
It was like a moral to it to like, I took it, I'm responsible for it. And if it takes 30 years to pay it off. And that's what I'm going to do. But I don't think that's Yeah, exactly what you're saying like, well, there's loopholes, not only rules, there's things in the law now that says you don't actually have to do that. You don't feel guilty about it, either. Because it's the rules. Well,

Unknown Speaker 14:11
yeah. So like, what I tell people is like, okay, so if you got disabled for Social Security, would you feel immoral, about claiming way more benefits than once you paid into the system, if you retire as social security and like, you get more benefits than you paid in? Or you happen to be really sick? And you get a lot of benefits under Medicare, Medicaid, or your health insurance plan? You know, because you're really sick? Do you feel bad about it? So in reality, like, when the government gets involved in something, the prices go way up? Right? I mean, typically, and so people also have better access, you know, because things are more equal, and people are able to do things that and you know, if that was just the private markets, they wouldn't be able to do, right. So the prices go up, and you have a government created kind of issue where the schools taking advantage of easy credit from the government. So it's kind of like that, like a little bit like the housing crisis, where I feel like everybody's to blame, you know, but you know, so these folks have the higher debt. And so if you're going to have that government creative problem, like you kind of need to use, you know, usually like a government solution and get out of that problem. And so that's really what the forgiveness stuff is. So So I would just say like, for for a general rule of thumb, you know, if you owe less than one and a half times your debt, that you can pay it back through refinancing, if you owe more than one and a half times your debt, they need to consider one of these forgiveness programs.

Justin Trosclair 15:25
So let's say what's the point of going like Harvard to get an English degree? Like that's an expensive English degree that maybe might be a teacher, you know, with that, and that income to that ratio? Right? There's not gonna be that great. I would think that's just kind of how I look at it. Sometimes when people ask me, like, we owe them money, you're a doctor, you should have paid off. Right. But at 60,000 a year?

That's not really going to make it

Unknown Speaker 15:44
well. Yeah. I mean, and and the Harvard English degree, you know, the answer to that question should probably go work for hedge fund, you know, because you have that Harvard brand name. And so, you know, he didn't do anything with English degree, it was just like a signaling mechanism to show that you're really smart. Yeah, I made it. But you know, I mean, he had exactly it's like a success thing or something. You know, I mean, like, look at that, like recent college cheating scandal, you know, with the people that pay to get their kids into league colleges, right. Yeah, people are so worried about looking successful. I had the case the other day, who was this person who they owned, like a brand new, you know, BMW or Mercedes, and it was super expensive. And they were like, outer tired today, if I could, I'm so burnt out, I'm so tired of working, and everything. And, and then like, the, the spouse of this person was like, you know, he drives the car, because it makes him feel successful. And I was like, Whoa, that's really deep. Because she, you know, she was just kind of explaining basically like that, he is little unhappy in his job, he feels feels like he wish he could have something different. And because he feels unhappy, he's going out and purchasing something, it's very expensive to feel like, at least he has something to show her. Right, all the pain and the work and the waking up early. Like he's got something to point to be like I made it, you know. And then the ironic thing was that very purchase was one of the primary things keeping him from cutting back his hours and having less work, stress at work, because of that financial obligation. Agreed.

Justin Trosclair 17:05
That's what's fun about working in China is you start to learn, you know, living smaller, not to say more frugal, but just you realize you don't need all this extra stuff, like I could afford a car here, but I don't really need one. So it just would, there's no reason to buy one just be a little inconvenience from time to time to get somewhere, take a take a bus or something or whatever. But it seems like a lot of people are like that they they have to have the shiny car, which I'm fine. Like, look, if you drive a lot for your job, and you're like on sales, and you're all over the place. I'm like, hey, maybe you do need like a nicer car, because that is your eight hour day driving around. So but for me, I'm just going to you know, get a nice car, but you don't get the most nicest BMW, when you have a 20 $500 student loan payment to make yourself feel feel special inside. Come on. We're going to the pay as little as possible. I mean, a lot of people are think that's a great idea. Because Hey, it's only I don't even know what it is. So you have to tell me, I think it's like 10% of your income or something like that, whatever it is. And then at the end of it, it's forgiven. So I think there's a couple of different kind of programs like could you walk us through what those are a little bit?

Unknown Speaker 18:02
Yeah. So the the primary ones are pays you earned and revised page or so think about like pay 2.0. And then the original one that was the very first one was income based repayment. So Income Based Repayment 15% of your income. Okay. Right. So 15% of your income 25 years, and then you know, it's forgiven page word was the second plan. It's 10% of your income for only 20 years. So it's both it's better for both parts of that, right. So page words, always typically better than income based repayment. So if you're on IPR, you have access to page where you should be on page. We're in that IPR. Okay. Right. Now, the the third planet they created is called revised pays you are, and this one's the same payment as the page word one. So it's both 10% and repays 25 years instead of 20 instead of 20 years. So you might be like, Well, why would anybody use that new one then? Right? Yeah. So the reason for that is because repay has an interest subsidy that covers a portion of your interest. So, you know, at least if you're making, you know, a debt to income ratio, above two to one. So if your goal is to eventually pay back your loans, but you don't want to commit to that $2,000 a month type of payment yet, then the rebate plans a great plan. And then if you want to go fer pure forgiveness strategy, the page where in plan can be a pretty good option to and the another caveat to mention is what if you're married, right? What if you have a spouse that has income, and maybe the spouse maybe has no debt? So under the rules, if you file jointly, or you're on the repay plan, which always consider spousal income, you have to pay based on both the rain comes and not just yours, huh? That's kind of rough, right?

Justin Trosclair 19:39
But it's still just 10% or 15%?

Unknown Speaker 19:41
Well, it's tip, yeah, it's 10, or 15. But depending on the plan you choose, but the thing is, is you could pay 10% of both of your incomes, or if you filed married filing separate, you could pay 10% of just your income, can

Justin Trosclair 19:50
that ever be switched, I thought you weren't sure, once you join, you can enjoy

Unknown Speaker 19:53
it. Now you could switch plans all the time, you can change strategies, you can change, you know, approaches. So for example, give me a example, say like two chiropractors are married to one another. One of them came from a middle class background, the other one from rich family, and has no debt, right. And they make about the same amount of money once you got the 250,000 in debt, and the other one has nothing. So what that person can do is instead of doing married filing jointly and paying 10% of 100,000, you know, they can file separately and pay 10% of 50,000. That's pretty nice. And that's only on the Yeah, it's only on the page word in the IVF plans. So that's another thing we'll do for people sometimes it's like the CPA is don't even understand this as to, you know, why you would file separately for taxes and exclude spouse's income, like that part doesn't make sense to them, because they're not student loan experts, right? They know the tax code, right. And so what we can tell people usually is we can kind of predict, hey, we think that you know, your tax penalty from this is going to be pretty small, and the student loan savings are going to be pretty big, you know, go talk to your CPA to just verify this, but you're gonna probably save like $500 a month by doing it felt like separate, and your your student loan payment.

Justin Trosclair 20:59
I know with one of these programs, you will have a big tax bill it so whatever, they gonna forgive you, you owe a rate on that? Or is it the amount that you get forgiven? It's like 30% of the hundred thousand that you get written off?

Unknown Speaker 21:12
Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. So So if there's two kinds of forgiveness, there's the kind that you work at a government or not for profit employer full time for 10 years, and you have your debt forgiven. After those 10 years, you pay no income tax on it, it's just forgiven straight up. It's called the public service loan forgiveness program. That's a less common program for people to get because there's restrictions on it. The one that is the income driven forgiveness program, income driven repayment forgiveness programs, called ID our forgiveness that's available to anybody, no matter what's going on in life. So you can be working full time, part time, not at all everybody qualifies. So that's the one that's 20 to 25 years, and you use the same repayment plans for both of those forgiveness programs. So with with the difference between, you know, the public service, loan forgiveness, and the idea of forgiveness, is the idea of forgiveness. Sure, you know, private sector part, I'm not working, you know, not qualifying for the PS left for whatever reason. So at the end of those 20 to 25 years, you're right, you have a big balance. So if let's say you you make 50,000 as a chiropractor, you're you got 250,000 debt, you to 50 k grows to 500 K, you know, because you're only paying, you know, $300 a month, right? Yeah. And so then, yeah, so in 20 years, you owe income tax and 500 grand. So that means you got to come up with $200,000 to pay the IRS all at once. So you gotta start saying that sounds pretty bad, right?

Justin Trosclair 22:32
Yes, you almost have to save I'm gonna pay 300 a month. But I need to save another 350 the covenant bill at the end? Yeah. And be diligent to do that. Yeah, he's still out. 700. But my thing is, actually,

Unknown Speaker 22:43
yeah, but it's actually a lot easier than you think. Right? Because you just mentioned the 350 a month or something. Yeah, you figured out what it is maybe 400 $500 a month, you put it into a brokerage account mutual funds, index funds, right. And then you just put that in there with automated bank transfer. So you can set that up, basically, any company now, you know, betterment, Vanguard, Schwab fidelity, like, there's all these different companies, you can use, you know, to put investments away every month. So you do that you set that up where you don't even thinking about it. And then if you total payment for your loans, covering your textbook and covering your payment, if it's only like 678 hundred dollars a month, you know, now you're back to that day back in the mid 2000s, where you were paying $800 a month for 3030 years. Right, right. But you know, in this case, you're only doing it for 20 years. So you could say that, even though people today have, you know, 3040 50%

Unknown Speaker 23:30
more debt than people back in the day, or maybe even 100% more debt. In some cases, the people today, even though they had the more debt, I mean, they're actually kind of better off that people back in the day, because the people back in the day, it didn't have all these income driven options, and they had to pay the thing off, right. So you know, paying 100 250 k off is actually very similar to do any income driven plan on 300,000. As weird as that sounds,

Justin Trosclair 23:52
and they're making if you're investing it, hopefully, in something super safe, we don't lose money, you could be making six or 7%. And that money is just growing or quarter after quarter with the dividends. And so when it comes time to it, you might have a little leftover from the interest.

Unknown Speaker 24:04
Yeah, yeah. If you sit well, if you set it up automatically, that's the key, like set it and forget it, and don't ever sell, you know, and you know, when the market crashes, you don't have to worry about it, because it's being invested for 20 years from now, you know, so the, the thing that I found that's kind of weird, is a lot of people feel trapped by the debt. You know, they feel like maybe sometimes they're, sometimes they understand it, sometimes they're, they're just like, a little depressed about it. Sometimes they kind of ignore it, but sometimes they're angry. You know, I just feel like my future is wrecked because of this. And what, what can I even do? I've got all this debt, you know, you can't bankrupt it. Yeah, you can't get rid of it. Like, you know, actually one of the best things you can do is move to China, because you can get a foreign earned income tax exclusion. Yeah. Do you ever use that on your own taxes?

Justin Trosclair 24:46
Yeah, the first 85? Is that what you mean?

Unknown Speaker 24:48
Yeah, I think I think it's 100. Now maybe, but

Justin Trosclair 24:51
even better. The first 85,000 US dollars you make you don't have to pay taxes on it from another country?

Unknown Speaker 24:56
Yes. I'm pretty sure what the inflation adjustment now it's about 100,000. So, you know, that means that if you make less than hundred thousand, your AGI for us purposes is zero, right? So because your AGI is zero, What can your income based payment be?

Justin Trosclair 25:09
He said the claim the money you made, though?

Unknown Speaker 25:11
You do, but you claimed everything legally, because you filed us taxes, and you exempted all of your income overseas based off the foreign earned income tax exclusion? Hmm. So it's not it's not based on what your earnings are. It's based on what your AGI is. adjusted gross income. So so if you have an adjusted gross income of zero because you're an expat living abroad and working abroad, then you said you have the ability to submit that tax return to your your loan servicer. And they have to take that because it shows that legal us income of zero.

Unknown Speaker 25:42
Wow. See, I should have contacted you two years ago, three years ago.

Unknown Speaker 25:46
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So So yeah. So like, literally, the strategy would be if you're going to be over there permanently, is paying zero dollars a month, for the next 2025 years. Yeah. And you literally would pay nothing and your loan balance would grow. Now, you know, the interest on student loans actually doesn't compound if you're on an income based plan, it actually grows at a at a at a linear rate. So it goes up at a rate of simple interest instead of compounded interest. So even over like 2025 years, your rate, your interest should probably only double even though it's over such a long period, even even if it's a higher rate. So like let's say you go from going 200 to 400. Well, now you're overseas and you have your first taxable income ever. And if you're exempting the first hundred k, then you know, taxes on that amount might actually only be taxed at a lower rate, maybe like 25% instead of like the 40% rate. Because you know, people in the US they got to add that that income on to what they're already making, right? Oh, yeah. And if you're overseas, you're exempted from a lot of that. So in other words, like say you say you pay like, you know, 20 30% in taxes on 400. k? Okay, well, maybe you're paying like hundred 20,000. But you owe 200 at the beginning. So would you like to pay 120 k as a lump sum and 20 years from now after inflation eats of devalue away at that for 20 years? Sounds like a great deal, right?

Justin Trosclair 26:59
Sounds like more people need to come to China. One more reason. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 27:02
Or, or Australia or New Zealand or whatever. I mean, like I talked to people, yeah, I talked to people all the time that you know, are abroad and are taking advantage of this. Because it's legal thing to do. And that's probably the best way like for people that are really mentally stressed. That's probably the best way to to get a handle your student loan debt, if you just like, don't deal with it at all. Yeah, I just moved from work abroad.

Justin Trosclair 27:23
That's a really interesting, and I was just interviewed the other day, and never knew this. And that's been a really cool thing that just kind of throw out there. Like, I don't know all the details, but you can contact somebody, and they'll let you know about all these little secret things, to make even more sense to go somewhere else and work for a while, that's really cool. Because I'm on my plan, my plan is I'm going to be paying it off, like I've got been saving the money, I'm gonna drop the money on it paid off and be done with it. Because, you know, I'll kind of chat with my wife. And I was like, she kind of stress about like, every month, every month, you know, you even if you're doing the repayment, and you're going to get that forgiven, you still got to come up with 120. And so at this point, based on what we do, or like, let's just knock it out, because if we can it out, we don't have to worry about it. And so from any job From now on, if I get a job somewhere, or make my own, I don't have to come up with $700 a month anymore. That's a 700 bucks, I can buy a better house or two kids retirement or kids school fund or whatever. So for us, you know, I think we're at that point where it's enough where it's hard to go back to some of the programs that y'all are talking about. But one of the questions that did have, if your income grows, you making 50 finally your marketing's working, you finally realize how to communicate with your patients better. So they don't just disappear so fast, you're growing, things are going well, you're like, oh, my goodness, I went from 50. Now I'm six years into it, I'm making 275,000 Is there ever a cut off salary, where you're excluded from these programs anymore?

Unknown Speaker 28:41
Well, you get capped out, so you can get capped out and you have to pay make payments on the standard 10 year plan. Okay, so for example, if you have 250 k of debt, you're killing it, you know, then what might happen is your payment would just get capped at the 20 $500 a month mark. And then if you're paying 2500 a month, if that happens pretty soon, unlike the six year mark that you've suggested, then the person is just going to pay the debt off and full and in they're not going to get any forgiveness at all, because it's a 10 year standard repayment plan. Right. Okay. So there's a capital so so that kind of situation what I would tell somebody, there's a Yeah, there's a real I mean, there's basically a cap like, Well, basically, you know, I mean, that's on the under the pay plan on the repay plan, there's no capital is just 10% of your income.

Justin Trosclair 29:20
So at the end of it, you really make a lot of money, you might never, you may not actualize some of the forgiveness,

Unknown Speaker 29:25
right? Well, I said, The worst thing that can happen is you'd pay the debt off. And that's kind of a funny thing to think about, like,

Unknown Speaker 29:32
the worst case scenario, is your debt free? Yeah. Like?

Unknown Speaker 29:36
Yeah, so I mean, come on,

Unknown Speaker 29:38
Travis, I wanted to save money.

Unknown Speaker 29:40
Yeah, I know. So like, what I actually would, I would tell somebody there that's making to 75 is you actually still might be able to qualify forgiveness. And here's how. So if you buy your building, you can take depreciation for the useful life of the building, talking to a CPA and figure out what that is. So maybe that's right off of something. And then also, maybe you have other kinds of write offs for just various business expenses, you know, that you might be investing in the practice, you might be buying equipment, you know, maybe you buy, you know, some machines that you can write off your income for that will increase the value of your practice. Also, you can run business interest, if you have any practice loan is associated with that, the other thing you can do is contribute to retirement accounts. So for example, let's say that, you know, you've got a, you know, a family where, you know, maybe the the wife, or the husband's the doctor, and the other ones doing office manager type work trying to keep the practice running, it's kind of common setup, you know, so in that case, you know, you pay the spouse, that's not the doctor, and then you have a both contribute to retirement plans. So both of them could contribute $19,000 each, to their retirement plans, that's 38,000. And then on top of that, you can make a matching contribution. So you could write off income may be in the like, the 40 to 45 k range, right? So now you drop your income if you're filing separately, well, right. So you probably might not do that, right? You depends on the situation. But you know, you could write your income down from to 75, you know, do some to appreciation, some some retirement stuff, maybe you write your income down to like 200 K or something like that. And then maybe you create even more stuff, you maybe have like a pension plan that you set up, you know, on top of that, you know, a private pension plan. So maybe you write off some stuff for that, too. So maybe instead of 200 K, maybe you get your income all the way down to like 150. And hey, guess what, now that your incomes down down at that level for tax purposes, maybe now your debt to income ratio is below this 1.5 to one or above this 1.5 to one level I talked about, and maybe it makes sense to still go over forgiveness. So, you know, that's kind of that's kind of interesting, right? Like another example. That's kind of weird. I'll give you a loophole. Right. There's this loophole called the breadwinner loophole. So if you're in one of the states out west, this is really, really kind of crazy. I was kind of blown away when I first heard about this the first time, but all these states out west, there's nine of them, that are community property states, Louisiana is actually one of them. Right? You ever heard of Louisiana being a community property state?

Justin Trosclair 31:57
I think so from Napoleon. Bologna.

Unknown Speaker 31:59
Yeah. Like the weird weird rules, right. So like, basically, the states that used to be owned by Mexico and like France, and you know, that kind of thing. Like they have this

Justin Trosclair 32:07
now the Louisiana Purchase.

Unknown Speaker 32:09
Yeah. So they have this, like, they have these different set of rules for for marriage. So basically, you know, talks about community property and marriage. And so what this kind of means is, if you do married filing separate, you can equally distribute income on your both of your tax returns. So for example, let's say that you're making 150, and your wife's making nothing. And you decide you have 250 k of debt from school. So what you could do is, if you do married, filing separate, they're only supposed to use your income, right? If you happen to live in one of these community property states, you can claim 75,000 of income for each spouse. And then since your payments just based on your income, you can pay your income during payment on just your income of 75,000 instead of 150,000.

Justin Trosclair 32:49
My goodness, the nuggets just keep falling from the sky with you.

Unknown Speaker 32:52
Yeah. So there is a that could save somebody five or six figures if you happen to live in one of those nine states. And they're pretty big states like Texas and California, you can

Justin Trosclair 32:59
you pay your kids, can you pay your kids? Well, I heard or something like, like, they can be like a model, you take some pictures and you put them on your computer? Or like there's different like, I don't know, if it's not a lot, like maybe it's like five or $10,000 a year you can do, but I don't know if that's true or not or not what the rules are.

Unknown Speaker 33:14
Yeah. I mean, like, there's, I mean, there's some legitimate ways you can do stuff like that. I mean, yeah, you can, I mean, you can pay, you can pay, like standard modeling rates or something, you know, a lot of people do that to put money away in their kids like Roth IRAs, or something like that, when they're all young, you know, I mean, yeah, so people do that. I mean, what I say is, like, I my philosophy on a lot of these things, is just to try to be in the middle of the pack and not be the most, most aggressive or the least aggressive. You know, I mean, like, I think that there's this person, so the payments are based on your, your family size, right? I had this one guy, he sent me an email, he's like, Hey, man, you know, I don't know if it's just me, but your spreadsheet doesn't work. I give this spreadsheet away for free, you know, on the on the on this suit on player.com. And so you download any says, especially as a work, I've got a family size of an exit 13

Unknown Speaker 33:59
he come on, man.

Unknown Speaker 34:00
It was like, it was like 13 or 14. So yeah, we got like, 12 kids, you know, and I don't I don't know what my payments going to be, you know, and I said, Well, dude, you know, he's broke my spreadsheet. I gotta make a new and just for you.

Unknown Speaker 34:15
That's pretty, pretty unusual there.

Justin Trosclair 34:17
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 34:18
Payment a lot. You know, he you know, his payment would have been like, 500 a month. I think it was like zero because he had so many write offs, because all the kids and everything Oh,

Justin Trosclair 34:24
my goodness. But

Unknown Speaker 34:26
yeah, that's pretty funny. But yeah, you know, you know, the kids stuff, man. You know, there's, there's all kinds of things you can do with with business stuff, writing things off. I mean, I just think that you want to be, like I said, kind of in the middle of the pack. Like you don't want to be the most aggressive person out there. Because that's the people that get whack a mole and have to pay huge penalties and fees to the IRS. You know, those are the people that they are essentially going after, you know,

Justin Trosclair 34:47
I'm not a fan of the gray area.

Unknown Speaker 34:49
Yeah. Well, I mean, like, if you're doing well, if you're doing everything you feel like you can justify it. And and you're you're you're doing something that's defendable, like I don't have a problem defending something that I think is defendable. Right, you know, I I'm I just have a problem with, you know, defending something that I think, you know, as it isn't legitimate, you know, until like in the case of that breadwinner loophole, the reason why I feel like it's okay, is because federal laws basically require you to split income this way. So your tax return is supposed to be done this way in certain states. And so you submit your income for student loan repayment, you submit your tax return, that's what they primarily asked for. Right? So you're not making any misrepresentations, you know, you're just literally submitting your tax returns according to the law. And if they interpret those to give you a lower payment, then there's nothing wrong with that. You

Justin Trosclair 35:34
ever get people that say, oh, man, I guess I better not make too much money. What's the max that I should make?

Unknown Speaker 35:39
Yeah, so so what I tell people, right is the worst case scenario is your student debt is a tax, it's not a debt. So worst case scenario, you're paying like 10% of your income towards loans, you pay like five to 10% towards the tax bomb. So you know, you're losing probably like 15 to 20% of your income. That's worst case scenario and your loads. And if you honestly think about it, like, okay, let's pretend you're in Sweden, you have the choice to make a million dollars and pay 70% taxes, or you can make 50 and pay 20% in taxes. Which one do you want? Yeah, right. You know, you always want the higher income, no matter what, like, you know, it doesn't mean unless, unless you just prefer to have the free time you rather not work those extra hours, you know, or not work as hard. Like, that's legitimate reason. But you know, if you're just thinking like, Oh, I like working, I like the humor money, like, but I'm scared to make board because my beer pain will go up. Well, that's like, kind of not the right thinking. But people say, what would I tell? They do? Yeah. And I tell people, you know, you want to think about it like a tax is a tax, it's not a debt. And when it becomes this ratio that I talked about the 1.5 to one, that's when it becomes a debt instead of a tax, because you're making so much money, right? Remember the case where the person is making so much they get kicked off or something? Yeah, so it's kind of like that, if you're, if you're, if you're not at that level, where your your debt is a reasonable ratio to your income, then you have a tax. And so what I tell folks is, okay, so you've got a tax, that's you're losing about 10 to 15%, of your income to. So let me ask you this, would you rather not be a chiropractor? And would you rather be a teacher? So maybe you're making 80 k as a chiropractor, but should make 40 k as a teacher? Say you lose 15% of 82? You know, repayment in in the tax bomb. Okay, so you lose what, like $12,000, something like that. So you lose $12,000 and your leftover was 68. Would you rather make 68,000? Or would you rather make 40,000? You know, so I tried to paint that picture for a lot of people sometimes. And I know that, you know, in some some cases in chiropractic, like, the tough part is like the people who are, are kind of more struggling out there. They're making salaries. So they would have made just coming out of college. Yeah, that's the problem. You know, and so that's just like a disclosure issue. I think that, you know, honestly, like, if if I had my preference, I think that the chiropractic field would be maybe like a third of the size that it is, and an incomes in the profession will be way, way higher, you know, but yet, there's just some my thoughts, we can talk more about this, but I think that people kind of miss the, the fact that the person that they're looking at in the mirror is the person that is going to determine whether or not they're financially successful, even if you have 250 k of student debt.

Justin Trosclair 38:09
Well, you know, a nice thing too, is you have an S corp of some sort, you can do a draw an owner's draw, which is only at the 15% rate instead of the 30% rate, because you don't have to pay, you know, the Medicare and all that kind of Medicare and all those types of social security benefits. And at least when I was, you know, working in America, like, I don't like gray areas that always tell my account, I was like, Look, if there's something that I can use, like you're talking about, let's do it. But if you have to sit there and kind of wonder, well, if we ever get audited, we know we may have to make No, no, I don't want to be that guy. I know you might be able to do it. But I don't want to be that guy. But we did. We did an owners draw, you know, I had a salary, and then I'd have an orange draw, and I pay less taxes on the draw. And I'm now on all the rules. Yeah, most people, most people do that something that they can look at as well, to lower their tax burden.

Unknown Speaker 38:51
Yeah, like most people do that they, yeah, you set yourself a wage, that's fair and reasonable. So maybe you set a wage of 60,000, or something like that. And if you make more profit than that, then what you can do is just distribute that as a K one distribution, it's basically a schedule K, and you just take, you take that as a distribution, and then the nice, so the thing that people should know, sometimes it's a lot, it's a lot of chiropractors out there, a lot of doctors are paying only on their wages, even if their business owners, that's technically not legal. So that's an example of something that's too aggressive, that's not supposed to happen, because the form that you fill out explicitly says you have to include all forms of taxable income, and you know, owners draws our taxable income. So, you know, that's the thing is like, take advantage of the rules and do it in a legal way. So you don't have to stress about things. Because you know, you can get all those deductions and write offs. And you know, pay less of a percent on your others draw for your student loan payment to, you just have to know how to maximize the rules. Most people, my experience, about 90% of people are doing something that's a five figure long term mistake with their student loan debt. That's it's a pretty high percentage, just because it's very complicated. People have a lot of, you know, they mess up a lot of things.

Justin Trosclair 40:00
So I think I have a lot of the questions that I had answered. And I know you've been on multiple podcasts, I think you had your own podcast from not mistaken for a little while. I don't know if it's still going.

Unknown Speaker 40:09
We do it is it is still going. It's a student loan player podcast. So if you're really into really arcane, bizarre steal on stuff, we'll talk shady strategies that we don't think we're legit ones that are, you know, people that paid off 400,000 people that are, you know, have a million dollars in student loan debt, or you know, just everything in between. So it's, it's, it's pretty fun if you enjoy student loan related stuff.

Justin Trosclair 40:33
Let me ask you this. You've been interviewed a few times. Are there any questions that you wish people would ask that? Haven't? They haven't that you wish? Every time you get off the phone? You're like, dang, they should have asked me this, because this is something that's really important.

Unknown Speaker 40:44
Yeah, I would, I would, I would wish the people would ask me, How can I know that I'm gonna be financially secure one day, if I have a lot of student loan debt. So that's the one question that that I think that more people should be aware of. And a lot of times, I'll talk to people and I'll say, Okay, what would you like to not work in? And they'll say something like, I love to not be working in 20 years. Okay. Alright, so let's look at what your percent of your income going to loans and investing as this point. And when I know that answer, and I know what they spend, I can project things with my spreadsheet and actually added something to my spreadsheet to do this. And it basically shows what their projected net worth is in the future. So it'll show somebody how many years they have to go until they could be financially secure. And so what I found is student loan borrowers, the secret to financial success as a student loan borrower is simply to have a higher savings rate than everybody else. So if if you have a third of your income, going to loans and investing in retirement savings, that's that's the magic number, you need at least a third. Wow. So if 10% is going to your loans, maybe 5% is going to your tax bomb, and then maybe 18%, the remainder is going to retirement and investing. If you have a third of that going to those those categories, if you're going for an income driven plan, refinancing, it doesn't matter. You're going to be financially secure one day, if you have less than that, then there's a really good chance that you're going to have to engage in some really creative solutions to retire like drastically downsizing your house drastically cutting your spending, moving, like a trailer home park in Florida for like 70 plus year olds, move to Vietnam. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly, you know, go to some cheap place to live. So if you know, so if you want to be financially secure, you need to have a third of your of your income going to savings investments in student loan payments. And the thing is, is if if that's not happening, usually it's not happening because of cars and houses. So for the most, most of the time, it's related to that. And there's usually not other things that I see causing people problems. You know, I've done Justin I've done like 1300 plans or something like that. And the team's done like 2000, right? I've never ever seen a single case where somebody, budget problems are being caused by going out to eat. Oh, really? I've never seen one not to say that doesn't exist. I'm just saying like, the going out to eat maybe 1000 or 2000 a month, but then living in you know, buying it buying a house in California, they need a 5000

Justin Trosclair 43:11
square foot house. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 43:12
like they have a you know, a million dollar house in California, that's like four or 5000 a month, and they probably should just be running a, you know, two bedroom apartment or something, you know, and it's and it's kind of like, again, that that like psychological like, have I been successful? Have I made it like, Am I a doctor or not? It's like that kind of mentality. And so when people make those decisions with their consumption on their housing and their cars to feel successful in life, what you're, what you're saying is, you know what, I'm I'm okay with retiring in my 70s. And wow, and then and then maybe, okay, maybe people want to work until seven, I think I think that's great, if that's what you what your goal is great. But a lot of people don't want to do this. Yeah, that's not what they're trying to do. Right? Like a lot of people, they're like, hey, I want to do retirement my like early 60s, so I can go travel, and I can have some fun experiences. And I don't have have to worry about having full use of my body, you know, to do all these procedures that I do. And you know what, I'm a senior citizen, like, I don't want to be trying to do that, right? So right. So I tell people, you know, have your cars paid off, don't have a car payment, if you do, that's just not a good idea. Because you have student loans, you have all these other things going on, and you're not going to be able to successfully handle both long term, you know, so get rid of your car payments, pay cash for cars, on Craigslist, and then for your house, just limit your house purchase to two times your joint income. So if you can do, if you can do those things, you're going to end up being successful, because you're going to have enough money left over to invest. It's kind of interrelated. You know, you kind of pick that 33% of your income or more, you know, and then you or you try to back into it by just saying how do I limit my housing and car expenses? So if you do those things, you're going to be okay, and then if you want to retire much, much sooner, and be financially independent a lot faster, you know, then you might just need to say, Well, how do I get my savings rate up to 40%? Or 50%? Right. That's tough. So,

Justin Trosclair 45:02
yeah, so that's money. That's a lot. Well, you know, about 80,000.

Unknown Speaker 45:05
Right? Well, I mean, it just depends on your situation, right? If you're limited in the middle of nowhere, you know, making 80 k because you don't have any competition. And you know, your house is $600 a month, you know, maybe it's not that hard, right? And if you're living in you know, if you live it in like Portland, you know, where there's like a bazillion chiropractors and you know, acupuncturists and natural paths and everything happy houses to 25 Yeah, exactly. That's, that's like the one that's like at the you know, you share the room with rats or something to 25 and Portland, right, like, 500. It's like your minimum or something, right? I mean, I'm just joking. But like, I mean, that's, that's the problem. A lot of problems people have to is like, self inflicted, like they there, they don't want to move away from the saturated area, like you're doing what you're doing. And China's kind of brilliant really, because you're going to a new place. It's not as you don't have to worry about as much competition, you know, you're having more of an adventure. So I wish more people would do that. You know, if you're in a really saturated market, you're only making money 40 5060 k is a chiropractor. And then he moves somewhere that needs your services more. You know,

Justin Trosclair 46:04
me and my buddy, were talking the other day. And he goes, you know, 70% of people in America live within 15 miles of where they were born, or wherever they grew up. And you know, we were both like we would school in different cities. We live nowhere near homeowners in Colorado was where I had my clinic. So as obviously far from Louisiana, it's like, if you were willing to move, you could probably make more money. Yeah, but where the money's at, had interviewed a dentist management company, he goes, you know, the problem that a lot of Dentists have, they have a lot of student that costs a lot to build a clinic. And what they end up doing is they go move somewhere that's like an associate, they buy a house, and then they go to try to like start their own or buy clinic, and it's 45 minutes away from the big city, and that I just bought a house and I can't and they're like, dude, you can literally triple your income. If you just move 45 minutes down the street. Yeah, just can't do it. Just can't do it. My kids are in school already and doesn't have a house. And that was one of his advice is like, Don't buy a house. Until you you pick a clinic out for yourself.

Unknown Speaker 46:55
Yeah, buy your practice first and then buy the house. Yeah, that's that's definitely a big piece of advice. For sure.

Justin Trosclair 47:00
Really interesting. This has been good, real good. I can't think of anything else at the moment to ask you. So I really appreciate it. The second piece of that, because I didn't realize you know that the 33% that's really smart. And I like the idea that you're saying that student loan payment counts as part of that. 33%. That's kind of like calculating My head is like, How much? Okay, I'm maxing this out. But I could could I say more? And there's like, Oh, wait, student loan. All right. About that he is talking about? That's good. Because I'm not sure if I could put any more to retirement than I already am.

Unknown Speaker 47:31
Yeah, no, and you can get a you can get that. I don't know if you show notes, but I can give you the link for that calculator that people can download. Do it. Yeah. And yeah, and if I guess if people have a lot of debt, you know, steal on planner calm, there's, there's actually a section for basically every profession that probably is listening right now. So for your listener, you know, they should have something written specifically for them. So they just got to check out the blog. And there's all kinds of categories and the right sidebar, where you can see your profession and see everything rewritten. We've written a lot of stuff about chiropractors, you know, podiatrists even I know you have a series that came out about that, you know, dentists, you know, literally everything you could kind of imagine we tried to focus on it right about Yeah, so if people just want to hit us up, help a student player calm love to hear what's going on with your life.

Justin Trosclair 48:15
That's fantastic. a wealth of knowledge, Travis, I really appreciate your time, and definitely hope that they will sign up for your newsletter, use your services and was nice as audience is prices are transparent there on the website, you don't have to guess how much am I gonna pay? Guess what can I tell them? The price? Sure, is like to 95 I'm thinking most people are probably gonna qualify around the 295 range. So we're not talking $3,000. And he'll examine your stuff. It's just 295 with the amount of money that you'd save the first year, and how big of a burden it is, to me, that's almost like just pay the money, get that weight off your shoulders to know what's going on. I'm sure we can spend $300 eating out this month that we could have just had peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

Unknown Speaker 48:57
Yeah. And that's and that's, you know, trades apparently, that's, that's one of the team members will be working with you at that rate. So like, we have like different levels of depending on how much debt so the max max level is 585 for people who over 400 K. And then you know, I take the ones over 400 K and I've got you know, a team of CFP CFA kind of folks that work on the zero to 400 k segment. But But yeah, it's it's transparent, you know, you're never going to be surprised with what you're paying with us. And that's a big passion of mine. Like a lot of, you know, financial planners out there. You know, it's like, they kind of like, it's almost like a bait and switch or something where they like, they want to talk to you like they want to get to know you. And then like at the end of the call, there you go Justin Yeah, they Yeah, they slide the slide, the only slide the envelope over there, like, oh, by the way, it's you know, it's 10,000 a year or something. It's like what, you know, like, it'd be nice if you told me that, you know, and put it on the website. So I can at least know that to like, not waste time. You know,

Justin Trosclair 49:52
I hate to say that I would I was going through a divorce. And before that happened was like, contact somebody and you know, a lawyer, and they were just talking and did it, then he's like, Look, yeah, if you just had to use us, which I hopefully your guys can just work it out. But if you have to use this, you're not going to get me I'm like 600 an hour, you're going to get these other guys. You can afford. I was like, oh, okay, well, that's good to know. So this is kind of what it's like, and we're going to give you to the person that's better at your rate. But no, Mama Justin and you got a Justin on there is that I forget the girl's name. But Lauren said just recognize my own yell Justin

Unknown Speaker 50:26
Lauren. And, and then and then Rob does the 200 to 400 K, but you know, all of them, all of them have done, you know, hundred, they've done hundreds of consults, you know, together. So, you know, they're very experienced, you know, we just try to pair the most complex cases with, you know, the, the skill level, right. So, you know, if, if, if somebody who's got 700,000 in debt, like I have one of those yesterday, 750,000 that's just a different, a different console that there's probably, you know, 45 different loans, there's probably three or four or five different servicers, things, things get really, really complicated. And, you know, that's I basically just wanted to have that lower price for people that have you know, the hundred k 150 k, you know, they need a little bit of help, but they don't need a massive kind of complicated thing. But they but they need to plan. So yeah, so we we've got something like it.

Justin Trosclair 51:12
I like the tears, everybody. That's nice.

Unknown Speaker 51:14
Yeah, yeah, but thanks, thanks for for sure that Justin

Justin Trosclair 51:17
absolutely student loan planner.com.

Another great interview has ended. As I always say, I hope you listened critically think and implement something so that your practice life, family life can improve this week, one hit you up with a few links today, if you'd like to know the top episodes of 2018 and 2017, were you just go to net slash top 1718. And you can get a PDF of all those episodes, it's like 22 of them. If you're interested on any of the programs that I've actually been interviewed on, just go to net slash as heard on supply on as, as you know, you know, so as heard on, if you didn't know, the needless acupuncture book sales page has been revamped to a look a lot better. You know, sometimes when you look at a web page, it doesn't look like it's put together will be like, Man, I'm not sure about this thing. But it's been redone looks better. And also, if you have an Android device and you're curious about it, you can actually download the same five protocols, blueprints, if you will, right there on your phone at the needless acupuncture app. And for less than $4, you get the whole book on your phone from the Android Google Play Store. So here's the check that out, the electric acupuncture pin is still available at a great rate, you can get it on its own or as a package. So you get the book, The E pin, as well as the regular points. Now, some of the things that I'm recommending blueberry hosting, that's who I use, I really like him a lot. I'm not gonna lie to you. Fiverr is where I get a lot of my music done my logos, I don't know if you noticed on Facebook, I believe my picture is now a face with a bunch of words and just saw that real quick, was cheap. Wanna try that for a little while it's fun. Turtle pillow, it's a travel pillow, it actually like an HP minute. So you can rest your neck and your chin on that. So you don't get like the chicken Bob, where you you know sleeping, why you wake up really fast. And you know, those those U shaped ones, I just don't think they work very well. So for me, it's worked really well. I've traveled about 10 different countries with it across the pond, as they say really highly recommend that if you're into instrument assisted soft tissue manipulation, two options, you got hot grip. So that's that's hot grips, and also net slash edge, you can get tools there as well. But they also have way more than just tools they've got how to get to use Google Apps as your EMR blood flow restriction cuffs, there's a lot of research on that device and you can check that episode from the past, you can get an automatic 10% discount on all the products from the edge mobility equipment. One of the devices I use to to send out snippets of the podcast via picture and quotes from the text that I write on the show notes is missing letter, they just took all the last E and letter.com. Pretty much you know you can do a blast and two months, I don't like five of emails or two months, I like to do nine emails or 12 months. So that person who was interviewed last month doesn't just get

Lost, right? You know so every day I have a new episode at a highlight and it's all automated really cool, definitely check it out. If you need to record your screen I like screen cast o Matic also j lab audio speakers have said before I love them it's a great company and now I get to actually be an affiliate for them. So if you end up buying into their products is like anything I get a little piece probably have like three or four different products I mean, they just the battery life so longer sounds quality is amazing. And for the prices keep loving, open. And of course the show notes anytime you see a book link, buy it, it comes to me and that net slash t shirts will help us out. And lastly, again something I don't talk about too much but you need coaching whether it's via the today's choices, tomorrow's health need some help with taking those small steps and accountability so that you can actually lose the weight or start exercising more or get your budget in order just let me know I can help with that. Also, if you just need some minor marketing coaching or things like that, I can help you out with that as well. It's got a.net slash support. And of course on there you can also buy the close the cup of coffee

even more than that there's different options available. So, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next week on the mini so

we just went hashtag behind the curtain. I hope you will listen and integrate with some of these guests have said, by all means, please share your social media, write a review and go to the show notes page. You can find all the references for today's guests. You've been listening to Dr. Justin trosclair

giving you a doctor's perspective.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

About the Author
Dr. Justin Trosclair, D.C., an expert in Chiropractic Care, has been focusing on back and neck pain relief for over 12 years and has delivered treatment to more than 6000 patients. With advanced training in treating disc derangement conditions, you can count on him to keep up to date with the latest research in physical medicine for spinal pain. He has 5 years of hospital experience in China, is currently working in Germany, and had a private practice in Colorado for 6 years. Dr. Trosclair hosts a doctor to doctor interview podcast called ‘A Doctor’s Perspective‘ with over 220 episodes. During his free time he wrote 3 books. Today’s Choices Tomorrow’s Health (rebooting health in 4 categories), a Do-It- Yourself acupressure book for 40 common conditions called Needle-less Acupuncture, and a step by step guide to look like a local for Chinese dinner culture called Chinese Business Dinner Culture. If you have kids, you may be interested in his 6 series tri-lingual animal coloring book series (english, spanish and chinese).