E 149 Psychology Cop Doc and True Crime Podcaster Dr Shiloh Catanese round 2

149 a doctors perspective true crime cop doc shiloh catanese
Dr. Shiloh Catanese PsyD talks to Dr. Justin Trosclair DC on A Doctor's Perspective Podcast.

Forensic psychologist and true crime podcast host Dr. Shiloh Catanese Psyd will discuss the rise of her show as well as what a FP does. We cover police counseling, suicide awareness and how she has come full circle from her previous interview.

Why did she and her best friend and fellow forensic psychologist start the podcast, LA Not so Confidential? It’s a true crime podcast but they approach and talk more about the clinical psychology side of these cases. It’s conversational and non-scripted. Definitely worth a listen if you want a more ‘clinical’ style of true crime entertainment.

Listen to see how they got sponsors, why she uses anchor to host her podcast RSS feed and the opportunities they have had to do live shows at multiple true crime podcast conventions. They even keep a reference list for all the credible resources they use for each show.

We discuss what is Forensic Psychology. Is it criminal profiling and helping police find serial killers?

Dr. Catanese discusses what her day to day looks like as a police based forensic psychologist. What types of issues do police officers and their family see her for? Also, part of her job is to be on scene for hostage negotiations?

She was a previous guest (episode 22 – top download for nearly 2 years) and she counseled a completely different group of people (inmates) but now treats officers. Since nearly her entire family (including herself at one point) are police officers, it’s like she came full circle with her career and offers her clients amazing insight.

Suicide prevention is an important topic these days because it is on the rise for teenagers as well as police officers. At the end of the interview she gives a PSA on suicide and why we need to pay attention.

What is the Deadly Triad?

How many times would an officer most likely see a psychologist after a fire arm release? Would it surprise you to know that it is extremely rare to ever have to fire your gun in the line of duty.

Dr. Shiloh (of the LA Not so Confidential podcast) has to be able to offer counseling services to officers who are arrested (and should know better really), without judging and only confront how they are processing it all. Her unique background with sex offenders gives her quite the edge to remain unbiased.

Why does she recommend that police have non law enforcement friends?

Books: Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement – Kevin Gilmartin

www.la-not-so-confidential.com

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lanotsoconfidential@gmail.com

Show notes can be found at http://www.adoctorsperspective.net/149 here you can also find links to things mentioned and the full transcript.

Her daughters podcast (who is 7 years old) is Career Quest with Sydney

149 a doctors perspective true crime cop doc shiloh catanese and trosclair
Full Transcript of the Interview (probably has some grammatical errors). Just Click to expand

Justin Trosclair 0:05
Episode 149 psychology cop doc True Crime podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Justin Trosclair. And today, we're shallow. During 2017 and 18 podcast awards, nominate hosts and best selling author on Amazon as we get a behind the curtain look at all types of doctor and guest specialties. Let's hear a doctor's perspective.

Unknown Speaker 0:30
Welcome back to a doctor's perspective, couldn't be more happy to have you listen to the show. Once again. I was on hiatus since mid November. I moved back to America for a few weeks and then moved to Germany, which is where I'm at right now. And now. It took a while to get internet get familiar with the new job, the New City and all of that. So thank you for being patient, but two weeks ago, I literally to the minisodes so we had a little bit of fun with those episodes. As always, if you need any information about the show supporting the show books, free PDF, top 10 lists etc. It's a doctor's perspective dotnet slash all links. The new book succeed in at Chinese dinner is on Amazon It was released in January of 2020. real excited about that pretty much again sums up in the you need to know but how to look good or stay face as they say, in front of a boss instead of family members. For whatever reason you possibly have to go to China. Dinner is hugely important. And with this book that you can read on the airplane, really, you'll be able to maneuver those as if you were local art been there for a long time and that goes a long, long way. Alright, so let's jump into this episode. This is round two with Dr. Shiloh first episode she was on 22 was the top episode of the program for at least two years. She's the forensic psychologist and her best friend started a podcast was a true crime, but they discuss it based on like forensic psychology. So, really cool. they've actually been invited to different conferences and so I'll pick her brain about all of that. Plus what is forensic psychology? She works with the police department now. Is she more like bones? A Blue Bloods a cop? Only the weapon? Yeah, we'll figure it out. Okay, we'll go figure it out together as the interview moves along. We also discuss suicide prevention because it is a hot topic right now in the police department. And it's interesting how her her journey from being a cop counselor sex offenders to now counseling police officers again because it's such a unique view and just completes the circle that she's in and she just loves it to death. So but definitely feel the passion she has when she answers the questions. Before we begin the interview, we all know coronavirus has taken the world by storm. So I hope everyone is washing their hands for 20 seconds doing social distancing and whatever else who will recommend as well as your government, federal and city so y'all stay safe. I want you to know if you are having neck or Back pain because I'm a chiropractor, headaches etc send me an email a shout out on social media and we can do some one on one Skype base health calls. Okay, no, I can't crack you back, adjust your spine through the video. But if you're at home doing self quarantine or just suffering with some pain, I can definitely show you some exercises stretching, ergonomics, nutritional health, whatever to help you manage your pain and symptoms while we're all going out as much as usual. So let's not wait any longer. All the show notes at doctors perspective dotnet slash 149. Let's go hashtag behind the curtain.

Justin Trosclair 3:43
Live from Cologne, Germany and Los Angeles. We have a special guest today a repeat guest because she had one of the top episodes ever on the show that just recently got surpassed. Can't believe it. We got the doctor silo catanese on the show today.

Unknown Speaker 4:00
How are you? Maybe I can make this one the new top one. I don't know you had

Justin Trosclair 4:05
the word sex in the first one. And I really think you know how it is. And we actually had a conversation about this things. So

Unknown Speaker 4:13
definitely, you know, yeah. Yeah.

Justin Trosclair 4:18
So I hear Corona virus is transmitted by sex.

Unknown Speaker 4:23
Yeah, yeah, we are recording in a very interesting time today. That's for sure.

Justin Trosclair 4:28
Yes, today we were recording one day in my in before St. Patrick's Day. Yeah, we're in the midst of subways being reduced and bars and clubs and businesses been shut down in case this is still around like 30 years.

Unknown Speaker 4:44
Yeah, yes, exactly. It is like it feels like n times our generation. Now. I got a new recording areas and the kitchen is less eco hopefully. But you can see my couple canned goods. We we didn't go crazy but you know, you got to be prepared. In case everybody else was crazy though, I guess we participated in it

Unknown Speaker 5:03
oh yeah for sure. I am a little bit of a prepper not a crazy you know bunker prepper but I was putting on some of my social media for my podcast yesterday about what I sort of carry in my car what I keep in my office of course in LA we have to worry about earthquake Yeah, I was kind of had some free time so I was telling the folks what I keep with me Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 5:26
you know, one pack of toilet paper is enough you know?

Unknown Speaker 5:30
There's always books around that's it. That's right.

Justin Trosclair 5:34
Hopefully not my book. I mean, mines amazing guys, come on. Right. Okay, so let's jump in. So since the last time we talked, you started a podcast la not so confidential.

Unknown Speaker 5:45
That's correct. I did you were one of the people that I picked your brain a little bit the beginning to say how the heck do I start this? But yes, I have started that it actually co hosts it with my best friend from graduate well not graduate school. We actually got an internship together. And he is also a forensic psychologist. And we talk about forensic psychology, but we tie it into true crime, which we know is big right now totally having a moment. And we thought we would fill the void where a lot of other podcasts didn't really talk about real psychological issues. They were just sort of regurgitating these crime stories. And we wanted to merge those two things, because that's essentially our world in our professional life. And it's been a blast. We've been doing it since October of 2017.

Justin Trosclair 6:36
Whoa, that really is long. It's crazy.

Unknown Speaker 6:39
I mean, I've heard it, you know, forever

Justin Trosclair 6:42
since January, the same year practically. So that's what I'm saying is like, we were still doing it. I mean, I took a hiatus for a couple of months that turned out a little bit longer than I expected, but that was freeing makes you realize and reevaluate, like is it worth it? Is it still enjoyable and it is so okay. I will listen. You know, a couple episodes, one of them was interesting. I'm not a true crime guy. Like, I've never listened to one episode of anybody else's podcast with that genre, except yours just becoming for obvious reasons. You know, it's fun to you know, there's some language on there. And then some of the reviews were like,

Unknown Speaker 7:14
Oh my gosh, they cuss. I was

Justin Trosclair 7:16
like, to grow up.

Unknown Speaker 7:19
We are professionals. But we're also people. Dr. Scott, and I wanted to keep it very casual and conversational. One, it's just easier to prep that way. We don't we don't have time to write scripts, but we wanted it to feel like actually one of our reviewers put it best they said it. I feel like I'm sort of eavesdropping on to forensic psychologists when they're on their lunch break. And it it's, it speaks to the relationship obviously, between him and I and that's just being good friends. Yeah, there's, there's some f bombs dropped every once in a while when we have like, some shocking thing to say or whatever, but we wanted to keep it. So it just relates to a lot of people and who wants to hear Doctors talking psychobabble. So

Justin Trosclair 8:02
yeah, I think one of the episodes was like Stockholm Syndrome. Oh yeah. Two I think it was because there was some people that were not understanding or there's like a lot of backstory behind that. So that was really interesting concept for me to hear about and the way you guys approach it. So but let's backtrack forensic psychology. Let's dive in because you work for a gigantic corporation that you went from the sex offender advocate to, to this and dealing with the psychosis. So this give us a What is your job look like? Are you the bones of women bones? I was a show right.

Unknown Speaker 8:42
All right, I'll tell you what, I've not that I tell you what I am. Which is good. It's actually awesome question because so much of what we get informed about is comes from media and television and what we see. And so forensic psychology is kind of this umbrella term for Any psychological field that overlaps with the criminal justice system. So last time I talked to you, I was working in that arena where I was a therapist for the sex offender population where I was doing psychological assessments and risk assessments on them as well as their therapy. And I was working hand in hand with parole and probation, to monitor them while they're out in the community. So that's that little cross section. So since then, and since I spoke to you last, I have left that world and I actually am a law enforcement psychologist now. So I work directly for a very large law enforcement agency here in Southern California, where the officers are actually my clients. Oh, so I provide clinical services to officers, their significant others, couples therapy, we do different group therapies. And that that's really fun. It's it's kind of funny because people like, Whoa, you went from like the bad guys to the good guys. You know, how was that shift? But for me if you remember my background is in law enforcement. I was a police officer before as a psychologist, so it actually feels like everything has come full circle. My dissertation research in graduate school was in law enforcement psychology. And I always sort of studied it, probably because I was living it for a while and had some critical incidents of my own that I wanted to know, am I reacting, you know, in a normal way for this unusual situation. So, about one, the biggest majority of my job right now is doing clinical services. We also get to be a part of the actual police stations. So each psychologist at my employer is assigned a number of divisions. So we each get at least one or two police stations that we are the consultants to as well as some other divisions. So What I do is I consult with the the commanding officers there, if there's any issues going on morale or burnout, you know, I can come in and do training. I can do wellness days for them, or I put together basically a training day on how to take care of herself. So a lot of great preventative types. You know, we could get into the ways in which, you know, obviously, law enforcement officers suffer in their mental health, but there's a lot of ways in which we can take some preventative steps as well. And then the last part of my job, which is probably the most fun and where the idea for Stockholm Syndrome came, is that I am part of the crisis negotiation team. So, every time there's a barricaded suspect, or suicidal subject where there will be some negotiating a psychologist is always there on scene in real time, helping with the negotiation. We don't actually get on the phone, but we're sort of consulting in real time.

Unknown Speaker 12:00
Okay, I'm trying to think TV shows, you're not coming to mind figuring out the mass rapists in five different states and figuring out that he lives in Georgia. That's not you.

Justin Trosclair 12:12
You're more like the lethal weapon. You just shot. The cop shot somebody that you're that person.

Unknown Speaker 12:19
Right, right. Yeah. lethal weapon. Let's see what are some others the departed. There's a police psychologist in the movie that departed you remember? I think she ended up sleeping with a couple of her clients. So we're not going to use her as a great example. But But yeah, after after a critical incident and most commonly we think of an officer involved shooting, they are mandated to come to see the psychologist and my agency, we see them three times we see them about 72 hours after the shooting. We want to make sure they've gotten some good sleep that their, you know, their their physiology has come back to normal to where they can come in and talk to us about what happened. And really we're there just to debrief. To help process the incident, and it's not to question what they did that is not our expertise or our forte. And then we'll follow up with them in about six weeks just because we want to see if there's anything still lingering, because that's around the point where you want to look at PTSD, if it could be there. And then we see them down the line when they have to appear in front of their use of force review board. So of course, at some point, right, they have to the department has to say, okay, we reviewed this incident and basically pick it apart. Here's what we think you did, right? Here's what we think you could have improved on. And obviously that's very anxiety provoking. So we just we just check in with them around that time, because it's a really difficult time when you feel like you may be reprimanded for an incident and what your life was in danger.

Justin Trosclair 13:52
Yeah, wow. I can't even imagine whether you'd if you kill someone or just wounded them or whatever. You had to use more force than you were wanting to Do that's going to mess with your head because even though there's a reality that this might happen is so completely different scenario when you actually have to do it, man,

Unknown Speaker 14:08
and it's tremely rare, even for law enforcement officers and majority of them will go through their entire careers without having to do or being involved in any sort of shooting even if you don't, even if you miss injure the person, right. But yeah, first of those that I have talked to where they have had to kill a suspect, you know, they didn't wake up that morning thinking that was going to happen. And for any human being, that's a very abnormal situation to be in. And by definition, traumatic. Yeah. So there's a bunch of stress reactions that come with that.

Unknown Speaker 14:42
When we're talking about the man in the last few years. I guess it's kind of calmed down a bit. But Black Lives Matter and the cops using excessive force on certain cases and things would they have, they've seen the hours they would have seen the psychologist and then they would have had to process all that in information. Do you see stuff like that? Where Yeah, cuz it's gotta be breaking the thinking to the job, right? And then you have the entire country practically pissed off that you weren't indicted for murder, and all that kind of stuff. You have to deal with that at all? Or what's your thoughts? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 15:16
So officers at my department can be what we call ordered in to come see the psychologist. And that would mean that if there's some sort of behavior that's affecting your job, then they would ask you to come see us. And basically we sort of do an assessment to say, Hey, what's going on? How can we help and beyond the assessment, if they want to start therapy, then that would be of their own volition, but we, they can be ordered to at least come to us. So we can check in on them and do an assessment and say, hey, it's probably a good idea if you come in. So what you're planning could actually fall into that category. And that's why we do it automatically with officers and police shootings, or maybe some sort of critical incident where there's a use of force But if there is definitely some public backlash, or something else external happening where we know that could be very stressful. We even have officers who find themselves getting arrested for things, DUIs, violence, and while they're on administrative leave, with all of that pending to see what's going on with it, they will be directed to see us as well. You know, it's a time where, you know, I think my old job of working with sex offenders, really comes in handy because I strip away what they've done in it to some degree, to be able to say, how are you? What is this dress like for you? How are you coping? So again, I'm not there to judge this officer for being arrested, when he should have known better right law enforcement. it for me to say that, you know, what else is stemming from here? Is our substance abuse issue? Is there just or is there some trauma underlying trauma going on here? How can we help? I can't help the situation but I can help you get through it. So yeah, absolutely. They send them to us for all sorts of situations. And, you know, the, the residuals of some of, you know, the the major incidents like Ferguson and those that you mentioned, there is still a lot of public apathy towards law enforcement, it is not a friendly place to work in, and that can really chip away at how someone goes about their job. And we find that is just one one of the sort of daily stressors they're dealing with right now. Okay, so

Justin Trosclair 17:29
this might be three questions wrapped into one because that's just how I do things sometimes. So don't forget, but uh, what do you enjoy seeing, you know, because you can do just family therapy and stuff, but a police officer, they're gonna have a unique set of stressors, and they have to bring that home and, you know, always been on, you know, high alert and everything. So, I guess, what are some of the most common issues maybe that they have to process as a family unit if you have, you know, someone who's listening that might have someone in a in that type of role that they can expect Yeah, you this is these are, these are common things that they take home. Yeah, that's enough. I think you figured it out.

Unknown Speaker 18:06
Um, yeah. So the most common reason people come to us voluntarily is relationship issues. Having said that, actually, couples therapy is not my favorite. I think it's because this is the first setting where I've ever done couples therapy, I'm probably not super confident in it yet. And that's usually how it is. I don't like doing something. And I don't feel confident in it. But regardless, it's there for me to work on whether I'm just working with the individual or whether working with a couple relationship problems are the most common reason people come to see us there. I do really love educating both officers and their significant others on why they act the way they do when they get home. And it's really neat to sort of educate them on what's going on physiologically psychologically when they have to be hyper vigilant all day long at work, they see the worst of the worst. They have to have their head on a swivel. They have to deal with things and sort of black or white yes or no go to jail, don't go to jail all day long. And they come home and they've got like nothing left to give, you know, they are depleted there because they've been hyper vigilant all day that's got to come down, they end up questioning their spouse or their kids like their suspect. That doesn't go over well. And it spouses who are on the outside of law enforcement, because it is such a strong subculture can really feel like they're on the outside of the bubble a lot. Like they don't quite understand and there is that us against them mentality with law enforcement of, well, you just don't get it you don't understand my job. And they tend to then isolate themselves from people who aren't law enforcement. You know, some of the best advice is, hey, make sure all your friends are kind of you have like a variety of friends in different fields. Don't talk the cop lingo when you're in social situations like, you know, that works at work, but it doesn't translate so well at home or in your personal life. And so it's making that shift is it's tough because we train them a certain way. We expect them to be like that. But then they have to like shift when they get home. So we I do a lot of work in that area. There's a really great book called emotional survival for law enforcement by Kevin gilmartin. And I give it to clients and to their family to read all the time. It's fantastic. It's a very short read. It's a really thin book, it talks about the physiology of it, what's going on with chemicals in their brain. It's just a great explanation for what I mean, I have guys that are like, oh my god turned to this chapter. I'm like, that's me. And that's me. That's me. And they just identify with it and to know why is really powerful, because then they can start identifying, okay, how can I be a little more engaged at home or, you know, how can I open Communication that's going to help in the long run with my family.

Justin Trosclair 21:03
Yeah. Because, you know, simply seemed like they have a power trip. Just it just yeah. So much Oh, and I can do what I want. I got this power and then you go home and then you got to turn that off somehow.

Unknown Speaker 21:15
Yeah, yeah. And it can be life saving. I mean, there's, there's a reason for it out on the street, and especially if you're working in Los Angeles, or, you know, some of the other areas that are are really tough and you have to have command presence from the get go. It's life saving, but it's not life saving at home. You know, you you should not that you should be able to turn off that should think a little bit more about how it's affecting the people around you. And I it's just it's such a nice blend for me and the satisfaction I get as a psychologist, because I grew up in a law enforcement family. My mom, my dad and my stepdad. Were all law enforcement officers. Then I went into it Yeah, then I went into it. I married A police officer. I have a brother who's like, Yeah, right. I know. I know. We're so not like that. But But yeah, so I, you know, being the daughter being the wife being the sister of law enforcement officers, and having done it myself is is unique. So for my where I work, I'm actually the first police psychologist that has any law enforcement experience and there's only really a handful of us throughout the country. We have our own Facebook group. We're both cops and and Doc's, cop docs is what we kind of call ourselves. There's not that many. And you really see it either in training when I talk about it, or sometimes if it's relevant, I'll self disclose it in in therapy, but I can just see the change on the officers face when they learn that I was in law enforcement or someone else I usually tell them, you know, and they just they look at me like oh, like they they've kind of looked Go in there like, Oh, you you get it you

Justin Trosclair 23:03
just just be open. She knows exactly what you're going through. She just took a different path at some point.

Unknown Speaker 23:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's such a, like automatic Report Builder. And, you know, even the city I worked in was like, kind of this quiet little suburb of Los Angeles. It's not the main streets of La by any means, but anything can happen anywhere. And I was involved in a couple of officer involved shootings, and, you know, some pretty crazy incidents. So yeah, it's, it's just such a great Report Builder.

Justin Trosclair 23:35
Yeah, man. Oh, boy. Switching back, I think to the podcast. So do y'all use, like real, real stuff that you guys have have encountered yourselves or is that not really legal? Because it's like, Hey, wait a second. I can follow the reports and see who this is or like, how does that?

Unknown Speaker 23:53
Yeah, that's a great question. So we this was something Dr. Scott, and I really had to figure out On the front end, because we are bound by confidentiality, right. So hence the part of the title la not so confidential kind of plays off of that a little bit. We do whenever we're talking about maybe a client or a case that we're familiar with, especially if it's a client or former client. We definitely do identify, you know, we, we try to change, maybe some identifiable characteristics about the person just in case. You never know. I mean, I feel like this world is so small.

Justin Trosclair 24:34
They're White, who

Unknown Speaker 24:35
might be listening. Yeah, yeah. So when we might do something like that, or you change the the environment or their profession or, or something like that, yeah. So we do want to come from our own experience and talk about cases or clients in which we've seen whatever it is that we're talking about, but we really are cognizant of trying to protect identity as much as possible. We just like, I'm sort of being vague with you, you know, we don't talk about the agencies that we work for he, he's actually a county psychologist, I'm a city psychologist. But we both sort of work for the same agency right now just kind of happened, how our careers kind of came back together. We don't name who we work for. We definitely don't touch cases that they haven't investigated. So if I, if I gave an example, it would sort of give it away. But what we do is we'll talk about cases outside of your area, that area in Southern California, if it's vintage, Los Angeles, then that's not so bad. You know, I just don't want an investigator pissed at me because I talked about this controversial case. And now they might, literally my therapist or my client one day, so there is some fine lines that we have to walk. But at the end of the day is if we're remaining professional in the end We're putting out and how we're conducting ourselves. You know, there's no issues there. And in our job, they're both. You always have to get work permits when you work for the government. So they know about our podcast, and they signed off on that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah,

Justin Trosclair 26:15
I was getting away with that, because it's such a

Unknown Speaker 26:19
giveaway, you know, there's always our faces your face and all this.

Unknown Speaker 26:24
There is a bit of that. Yeah, for sure. But, you know, I started the podcast the same way. I started with this new employer, and I was very happy that they took a risk. They didn't really know me that well, but I stopped. But at the same time, you know, like lots of doctors have side hustles as far as private practices and other things, they have projects and that they're doing and I'm definitely one of those people. So I probably have like four work permits, right.

Justin Trosclair 26:52
That's what's kind of cool is you I guess, whenever you're into this stuff, you can take a case from Denver. I think there was a saw some clip about like mental illness, you know, Like people are concerning, they don't take their medicine and you know, this one guy was swinging a bat and hit people. And once he got on the bids and got over it, you know, he they found out like, Oh, dude, I didn't even know I was doing that. And they're like, yeah, you this is you saying that they were already trying to hurt you. And this is why you were attacking them. And at that point, I guess that's kind of how you can stem off of a like, okay, we know what all of these diseases that this guy has. So this is our take on that case that happened in Denver? Let's have an episode or two about it.

Unknown Speaker 27:26
Yeah, we we try to go with as many records and resources as we can find, because, you know, we definitely one of our hard and fast rules is that we don't want to be one of those Talking Heads where we are diagnosing someone through the television or over the airwaves, you know, just because it's splattered all over the news. We don't know what's going on with this person. We don't know what their diagnosis are or their history. So for us to say, that looks like narcissistic personality disorder. We can say they're exhibiting traits that are similar to people who have nurses. cystic personality disorder but we would never say, Oh, absolutely, you know, our president is diagnosed. So yeah, that's, that's, I'm glad you brought that up too because that's another thing that we have to be very mindful of. And unless we're again, we are human beings and we judge people and we have thoughts in our minds about what's probably really going on here. But to say that out loud in in representing it in a professional sense wouldn't be ethical or right

Justin Trosclair 28:30
Yeah. All right. So the particulars Are you still on anchor

Unknown Speaker 28:34
for your hosting? I am still on anchor. Okay. We love it. Now why don't

Justin Trosclair 28:38
you love anchor and then you I've heard sponsors, I don't know if that's just part of the anchor platform like you use us. It's maybe it's cheaper, I don't know. But therefore, you will have to have sponsors or did you find sponsors and you're

Unknown Speaker 28:50
like, you're getting paid for this, please tell me what's going on. Oh, my God. Okay. So last, let me take you back until you have started because it's actually interesting with our show. So our goal for 2019 was to possibly find a podcast network to be a part of, and also to start monetizing a little bit. So that's what we said are their goals for 2019. Last summer we did a festival called festival called the true crime podcast festival. And it was held in Chicago was the first year they did it. And we got invited to do a live show where we essentially did a case with a couple of attorneys from a podcast called Getting off and their criminal defense attorneys. And we we covered the Mary Kay LeTourneau case. So the teacher that had had the affair, well, if there is kind of a gross word because he was a child, so but had sexually assaulted one of our students. So we did this podcast festival, it was a blast. We got to meet some podcasters that have a really big show in the true crime area called missing Maura Murray. And after that, they invite us to be part of Their network, the crawlspace media network. So we joined them and they were the ones that recommended anchor to us. And we had been using a couple of other platforms. And when they told me anchor is free to use this, this totally sounds like an ad and I wanted to know because I

Justin Trosclair 30:17
know it's free and there's why it's free and what people too who are doing this quote seriously, don't use quote, anchor. That's why I was curious, like, how did that happen? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 30:26
So so they were like, it's free. We love it. They will hook you up with advertising if it fits for your show and fits for how many downloads you're getting and all of that. And so it was it honestly, I was sick of what we had been using and anchor I just, I found it so easy for me and for me, you know, it's not a full time gig for me. Obviously I have a job and I need to make it as simple as possible to get this done. But I love their editing tools I love you know, right off the bat we kind of automatically get sponsored by anchor And by Spotify. And then every once in a while we find a couple of other ones that we get connected with. Now, we also started an account with popcorn, who is also like, ad marketplace for podcasts. So you just you scroll through all the opportunities on there, you give a pitch. And if they decide on your, your idea for an ad and your price and popcorn is kind of the marketplace that just, you know, takes care of getting everyone paid and all of that. So that's how we've been doing it. Yes, that's how we've been doing it. But anchor is great. My my eight year old started a podcast this year. And she did it on it. We literally record every episode on the phone on the anchor app sitting in my closet and action like I got has all of our recording equipment. I don't even have to have any of that it meets our needs for

Justin Trosclair 31:58
testing Is that too much information.

Unknown Speaker 32:00
No, no. Her podcast is called career quest. And she interviews a different adult about their job every week so she just finished her first season she put out 10 episodes Yeah, and it's like five to 10 minutes you can listen to it with your kid on the way to school it's just super simple on a mic. Oh my gosh Chappelle and make a million dollars because it's the genius idea.

Justin Trosclair 32:22
Yeah, she's gonna get tons of downloads. She's gonna surpass our downloads and we'll be like, I know.

Unknown Speaker 32:28
Yeah, kid kid pop podcasting is a thing apparently she just wanted to do it because you know, she sees mommy do it

Unknown Speaker 32:34
but I was cool. I recorded four

Unknown Speaker 32:39
episodes where you know you can find nursery rhymes and stories that are like not copyrighted. And I had a few people kind of you know, take a listen what do you think and they kind of said some stuff and then just kind of let the ball drop because it's like some of the web page is another this is another that it really do anything with. I kind of gets I got it out of my system. Like I just wanted to record a few and just see how I can do it like Yeah, this is, you know, you do anything for children. And if you get the right niche,

Unknown Speaker 33:05
it explodes, right? Yeah, it's a lot. I definitely wanted it to be her thing. It was hard to not be kind of the stage mom, like, Hey, you should be more like this or like that I just let her literally do her own thing. It has a Twitter account. And that's it. I wasn't gonna put any more effort into it. I have too many social medias to worry about right now. But that's fantastic. It's good. It's been fun.

Justin Trosclair 33:27
That is so cool. Like, I know, you know I have a kid is she's not even. She's 18 months. So there's a long time but I've always I was asking other guests about how do you

Unknown Speaker 33:38
enrich your kid's life with lots of opportunities, and then when you find something that they enjoy, or like they see Mom, do I want to be a part of that I wanna do that and be like, Okay, well, let's figure it out. Let's watch some YouTube videos or let's just encourage that unique adventure.

Unknown Speaker 33:54
Yeah, definitely. It's the funny thing is it started kind of going back to anchor and back to our podcasts. We didn't episode around Halloween last year about the fear of clowns. Like Why are people so freaked out by clap? Right? So we we really dove into the research and talk about that. And it was around the time that I was starting to use anchor and I took her into the closet one day I said, Hey, I'm going to do just like a quick interview with you to see how this audio sounds. And so I asked her, Hey, why do you think kids are freaked out by clowns? And we just did this impromptu like two minute three minute interview and it was so cute that we ended up putting the interview into our episodes and people were like, oh my god your daughter's voice is awesome and she totally got the bug from here from there on out like she she had the she I told her come up with an idea come up for a name and and that's how it kind of started.

Justin Trosclair 34:52
That's awesome. Hey, Rebecca, you mentioned in your in other servers besides anchor? Did you have all kinds of issues like with the RSS feed been, you know, transferred over. I've heard it can really mess up your downloads and all that

Unknown Speaker 35:04
jazz. No, I just was very diligent about following the instruction. So we, we, so we started originally with Squarespace because that's where our website was hosted. Okay. And then we went to simple cap. Yeah. And I just didn't know it. And then we went anchor So, so yeah, I did really true two transfers and I was scared of that too. But there's there's a lot of fail safes that they have in there where it's not like, you know, Squarespace gets deleted before the other ones. And all of that, oh, with Squarespace.

Justin Trosclair 35:41
So it was kind of you recorded it and you just attached it in the back end like a PDF or video embed. It was just like an audio embed into it. And it was saved on Squarespace as servers.

Unknown Speaker 35:53
Correct? Correct.

Justin Trosclair 35:55
Yeah, we just geeked out y'all.

Unknown Speaker 35:58
Yeah, yeah. I know. No, I there's so much more about that. All of this that I'd never wanted to know. But yeah, yeah, you there's you can make, essentially, you know, a podcast page on Squarespace where all your episodes are. So, which I was keeping it also like our audio on there for people who just wanted to download for that. But that was too much double work after we left. Squarespace. So just our I think our first 30 episodes are available on there. But we we keep an entire references section on our website because it really is important for us to cite the work, you know, kind of being the nerdy research psychologist that we have been to, you know, people want to look up an article or something or a book or go back we keep that fully up to date. There was some controversy in the true crime podcast world last year where people were podcasters were reading the works. journalists and other people without citing it and kind of Oh, yes, not good. I get off is their own? Yeah. So. So we're all up to date on that for sure. But that's always been important to us.

Justin Trosclair 37:10
That's fun. Well, let me think here, um, anything about the podcasting or potentially, you know, forensic psychology public service announcement or any topic that you're like, Oh, we should, uh, you should ask about that, that I haven't said yet.

Unknown Speaker 37:24
You know, I guess just kind of trends in the area. Again, turning back to officer safety and wellness is, is really important. We want to know what we can do to take care of all of our first responders. And as many people might know, just from hearing it in the media, law enforcement suicide is really, I mean, it's always been at high rate, but I think last year with the, with new york police department, having 10 in their department in a year was just an epidemic. And, you know, we're really trying to figure out why our Officers being dying by their own hand than by all other line of duty deaths combined. So that that really is an area that was filled with a lot of stigma for a long time, but we're making a lot of headway. So, you know, just, I feel like the jump in general, we're talking about suicide awareness and prevention a lot more. Every time there's a celebrity that dies by suicide, you know, it kind of brings it up. We know the adolescent and teen they're skyrocketing as far as members that are dying by suicide. Yeah. ever know, the age range for just the general population actually has dropped. It used to be that the elderly population kind of 65 and over were the most at risk for suicide, and that has dropped the generation to like 55 to 65. But then adolescence or spiking as well.

Unknown Speaker 39:02
So,

Justin Trosclair 39:03
is there any percentage? General? Um, I don't have that. That's pretty low though, right? Like, it's just like that we want to see zero suicides. So even if there's 10 in, in a state like we're like that's, that's too many based on the, you know the officers because this is not necessarily the

Unknown Speaker 39:19
course. And actually, when you sit down with the numbers and kind of break it, break down the statistics, if you compare law enforcement suicide to the general population, it actually isn't that different. However, we screen law enforcement officers, right when they go into the work, they are tested, psychologically, they go through a psych exam, we rule out people who, you know, have troubled backgrounds. These are individuals are being screened very intensely. So for the screening that they go through, the rates are high. That's what we're saying like what's, yeah, what is happening on the job? And, you know, it's, it can't all be PTSD. And a lot of it is the inability to cope. Yeah, it is a lot of what they're exposed to, of course, it's also the access to firearm. And it, there's a big substance abuse problem. And when you are intoxicated, and you're not feeling good about yourself, and your wife just said, she's going to leave you, you know, you're you're more apt to be impulsive with that very lethal mean of death that you have, right? Going back well,

Justin Trosclair 40:35
with the gun pills, you can maybe survive, you know,

Unknown Speaker 40:39
right. Yeah. Right. So, so we actually call it the deadly triad when there's underlying depression, the loss of a recent relationship, and substance abuse or alcoholism on board that if we go back and we kind of do like psychological autopsies, those three things are almost always present.

Justin Trosclair 41:00
You almost probably say a four with a social stigma right now of just

Unknown Speaker 41:04
yeah, I mean, that's going to be there for all of them. Right? I mean, I think it Look, you have to look person by person and how much that's affecting them personally, but, but we are making a lot of strides. We are talking about it more. My agency now has an annual suicide awareness and prevention walk, where it's a very uplifting day. We, we, you know, it's very celebratory balloons and speakers and wellness boots, and let's go do a five k walk and talk about the people we've lost to it. Just honor them. Yeah. But also let people know that we're here and we know that people are hurting and there's people that help access accesses everything when we talk about prevention and there needs to be better Mental Health Access throughout the country, for law enforcement officers if we want to break that stigma. I just came back a couple of weeks ago from a conference symposium in Miami that was put on by the internet National Association of Chiefs of Police. And it was just focused on officer wellness and safety. And it was really cool to just be with people from around the country and around the world really talking about these things and not not hiding them. And just saying we need to do better, and how do we take care of our folks. And it's a multi dimensional approach. So we I fortunate to work for a law enforcement agency where they've had psychologists for 50 years, and we're the oldest behavioral science services in the country. So we have other countries and other states and other departments coming to us all the time saying, you know, what are you guys doing? Yeah, so it's been, it's been great to be a part of this. I mean, like I said, it feels like sort of my entire professional career has come full circle. And it's just it's really rewarding. I remember soon after I started this job. I guess I was talking about you know, An experience I had with a client or something and my husband's like you, you really like, like your clients? And I said, Well, I don't know if it's that I like them more than other clients I've ever worked with. But I think I'm talking about it more because I relate to them. And it relates to our family. And it was just an interesting point for me to sort of pause and say, like, Yeah, what, what is sort of this tapping into internally for me, and I think it is all of what I mentioned, you know, being a member on forcement officers and, and seeing it play out in a therapy room is different than at the dinner table. For sure.

Justin Trosclair 43:39
I like it. This is this has been really good. How can people get in contact with you? What's the podcast link and all that?

Unknown Speaker 43:47
So our fabulous website that I was talking about is la dash. Not so desk confidence, oh calm. On Twitter. We are at La not so hot. On Instagram we are at La not so podcast. And I am in charge of those and I post all kinds of fun things all the time and kind of follow us around what we're doing in LA we try to post when we're doing interesting things at work, but you don't have to keep some things under wraps. It's a great way to interact with people. And then we are also on Facebook at La not so confidential and Dr. Scott runs that he puts a lot of really interesting articles up there. But we love people if you if people want to email us ideas, we get great ideas from our audience about topics to cover. You can listen you don't have to listen to our podcast in order you can listen to absolutely any episode because we cover a different topic each time but la not so confidential@gmail.com and tell folks can get a hold of us. And we will be if it does not get counsel. We will be At crime con in Orlando, the first weekend of May. And we will also be back at the true crime podcasts festival this summer in July, and that's going to be held in Kansas City, Missouri this year and we will be doing another panel with the getting off podcast this year.

Unknown Speaker 45:16
Bob so jealous. I want to be a part of the

Unknown Speaker 45:21
fun it is. Yeah, it's a blast. We were having a fun time doing. That was our goal this year was to get a little bit more exposure in different ways. So yeah, if any of our listeners are true crime, you know, fanatics, check us out. We'd love to have you guys on board. So

Justin Trosclair 45:40
perfect. That's shallow. Really appreciate your time again, hopefully this will blow up the charts. And this will be I think, my first podcast back from my hiatus. So this is cool stuff.

Unknown Speaker 45:52
Very good. Well, I'm happy to be back. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to come back and talk about law enforcement psychology because it's it's pretty simple.

Justin Trosclair 46:05
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai